New CDC limitations on cruise ship return to service - as of 5/5/21

[nocl]

7 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Nice to see continuing benefits for those who are vaccinated.

Which raises the question of how does the cruise line manage the vaccinated vs unvaccinated passengers?

 

These changes have accomplished 2 things. It enabled the CDC to show how the rules would be lightened for fully vaccinated cruises, without actually referencing that.

 

And it puts the cruise lines it quite a bind. If they don't require vaccination, managing the different rules for the two groups would be almost impossible. So they will be forced to either decide to fully vaccinate or if they do not face a tremendous challenge of having one set of rules on the same ship for vaccinated passengers and a different set for unvaccinated. How well do you think that will work.

[KirkNC]

4 hours ago, nocl said:

Which raises the question of how does the cruise line manage the vaccinated vs unvaccinated passengers?

 

These changes have accomplished 2 things. It enabled the CDC to show how the rules would be lightened for fully vaccinated cruises, without actually referencing that.

 

And it puts the cruise lines it quite a bind. If they don't require vaccination, managing the different rules for the two groups would be almost impossible. So they will be forced to either decide to fully vaccinate or if they do not face a tremendous challenge of having one set of rules on the same ship for vaccinated passengers and a different set for unvaccinated. How well do you think that will work.

Quite true.  One option is just to go fully vaccinated as NCL is doing.  Another maybe to only allow those medically unable to be vaccinated if they agree to additional protocols. One might be wearing a mask all the time, only taking ship excursions, things like that.  They would be limited to 5%.  It would require more work for crew if they become enforcers.  My solution with children (probably not a popular one) is they have to be vaccinated as well if above 2-3 years old.  I recognize this might mean they can’t cruise initially, probably not until next year.

Edited May 13, 2021 by KirkNC

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Quite true.  One option is just to go fully vaccinated as NCL is doing.  Another maybe to only allow those medically unable to be vaccinated if they agree to additional protocols. One might be wearing a mask all the time, only taking ship excursions, things like that.  They would be limited to 5%.  It would require more work for crew if they become enforcers.  My solution with children (probably not a popular one) is they have to be vaccinated as well if above 2-3 years old.  I recognize this might mean they can’t cruise initially, probably not until next year.

And, this leads to further complications, especially for formulating action plans.  First off, what methodology do we use to ensure vaccination (what database do we use, and what safeguards do we have in our system)?  Then, how do we differentiate those who are not vaccinated from those who are, once onboard?  These details could extend the amount of time needed to formulate plans even further.  Simply meeting the CDC's baseline requirements is a yes/no proposition, while going with vaccinated or partially vaccinated starts to become a what/if situation, which is more complex to plan for.

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Of course, it’s at the discretion of the cruise line.

And one hopes they don't use their discretion to keep requiring their bubble excursions as a requirement because they are such a profit center. One has to hope at least one cruise line does not do this, and that that nudges others to do the same as passengers react their bookings to go in the direction of the lines not requiring only their own excursions.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And, this leads to further complications, especially for formulating action plans.  First off, what methodology do we use to ensure vaccination (what database do we use, and what safeguards do we have in our system)?  Then, how do we differentiate those who are not vaccinated from those who are, once onboard?  These details could extend the amount of time needed to formulate plans even further.  Simply meeting the CDC's baseline requirements is a yes/no proposition, while going with vaccinated or partially vaccinated starts to become a what/if situation, which is more complex to plan for.

I guess this is how engineers think. Here is the problem, what must be done to solve it. And are there even practical solutions. And of course, how costly will the solutions be.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, this leads to further complications, especially for formulating action plans.  First off, what methodology do we use to ensure vaccination (what database do we use, and what safeguards do we have in our system)?  Then, how do we differentiate those who are not vaccinated from those who are, once onboard?  These details could extend the amount of time needed to formulate plans even further.  Simply meeting the CDC's baseline requirements is a yes/no proposition, while going with vaccinated or partially vaccinated starts to become a what/if situation, which is more complex to plan for.

I expect that if they meet the 95% rule the CDC would probably accept the no mask needed on board ship. But those without vaccine would probably be limited to specific excursions.

[rucrazy]

Let me throw this question out:

How many UNVACCINATED PAX or Crew members are acceptable on a cruise?

[nocl]

28 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

Let me throw this question out:

How many UNVACCINATED PAX or Crew members are acceptable on a cruise?

Depends by what you mean acceptable and to whom?  the cruise line, other passengers, the heath authorities at a given port?

[rucrazy]

Just now, nocl said:

Depends by what you mean acceptable and to whom?

My question was to the readers of CC. nothing more...

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I guess this is how engineers think. Here is the problem, what must be done to solve it. And are there even practical solutions. And of course, how costly will the solutions be.

Especially when you work in a regulated industry where the ISM requires that there be procedures, risk assessments, root cause investigations and mitigation processes written for virtually every aspect of your business.  We even have a risk assessment for abandoning ship (what measures can we take to reduce the risk to crew, vessel, and environment, when abandoning the vessel).

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Especially when you work in a regulated industry where the ISM requires that there be procedures, risk assessments, root cause investigations and mitigation processes written for virtually every aspect of your business.  We even have a risk assessment for abandoning ship (what measures can we take to reduce the risk to crew, vessel, and environment, when abandoning the vessel).

And all, well at least a whole lot of us, are glad you bring this kind of perspective to many of these discussions.

 

 

[mtnflyer2]

“UPDATE: If you are fully vaccinated against #COVID19, you can resume activities without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal or territorial laws, incl. local business and workplace guidance.” Let’s hope they update cruise guidance to this soon. 🤞👍

[cscurlock]

9 hours ago, rucrazy said:

Let me throw this question out:

How many UNVACCINATED PAX or Crew members are acceptable on a cruise?

Zero if it means that is what will be required to prevent ships from having to return to port because an unvaccinated passenger gets ill enough to need serious medical help and not quarantine the rest of the ship.  Its just the nature of the beast.  No one wants to be in that situation.

[cruisegirl]

9 hours ago, rucrazy said:

Let me throw this question out:

How many UNVACCINATED PAX or Crew members are acceptable on a cruise?

None as for as I am concerned. 

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, mtnflyer2 said:

“UPDATE: If you are fully vaccinated against #COVID19, you can resume activities without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal or territorial laws, incl. local business and workplace guidance.” Let’s hope they update cruise guidance to this soon. 🤞👍

Great news but not clear how it impacts cruising.  In the update, CDC still requires masks on planes and buses.

[cruisegirl]

7 hours ago, mtnflyer2 said:

“UPDATE: If you are fully vaccinated against #COVID19, you can resume activities without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal or territorial laws, incl. local business and workplace guidance.” Let’s hope they update cruise guidance to this soon. 🤞👍

This is the biggest ray of hope we have had in months. I would think that would impact the cruise requirements. The thing that makes me less confident on how it will effect cruises is surely CDC know this announcement was coming down the pike when they released their latest cruise requirements. If not then one hand doesn’t know what the other hand is doing which unfortunately may be the case.  

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, cruisegirl said:

This is the biggest ray of hope we have had in months. I would think that would impact the cruise requirements. The thing that makes me less confident on how it will effect cruises is surely CDC know this announcement was coming down the pike when they released their latest cruise requirements. If not then one hand doesn’t know what the other hand is doing which unfortunately may be the case.  

Which is probably the case.

[mtnflyer2]

Interesting.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-in-the-cdc-dock-11618526805?mod=e2fb&fbclid=IwAR1pVIMxzYZjOSixebeuRG-7le-3Te9UuVEuuVHY3jJqNtbdz4tdXJW5Y8Q_aem_AfesBRtCdR3PzyY2P_hkOm9PoufxtWsK3Ojd_8FRYd7jTntyCn3giAfUWfdj0iU3JFcdQf4j0fbZeisUdF-TcTNOXHT9W_7SMtY8dh3nEws1Cw