New CDC guidelines released 5/5/21

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Everyone 18 and older will have to be vaccinated. They will allow up to 5% of the total guest count for those under 18 who do not qualify for a vaccine yet. So if they have a 1000 people booked they will allow up to 50 people below age 18 who are potentially unvaccinated. 

By the time cruises get going in a month or two, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will like be approved for everybody 12 and older.  

[TeeRick]

28 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Still a buffet, just no more self serve, the food will be served to us.   

So has the CDC "banned" buffets in the US in restaurants or just on cruise ships?  What is the difference?

[wrk2cruise]

I don't think CDC has authority over land based restaurants.  I think that comes under the local health departments.   Similar MLB ball parks are going to 100% capacity but outdoors by the pool have to be 6' social distance.

[ipeeinthepool]

4 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

So has the CDC "banned" buffets in the US in restaurants or just on cruise ships?  What is the difference?

 

Even with passengers behaving poorly with very poor manners the buffet concept does contribute to Covid spread.  The problem is with everyone violating social distancing guidelines as people congregate around the food.  Buffets on cruise ships are probably more crowded than land based buffets.  In addition to the crew serving passengers , I think there will be an effort to regulate the flow of people into the food stations.

[ipeeinthepool]

2 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

I don't think CDC has authority over land based restaurants.  I think that comes under the local health departments.   Similar MLB ball parks are going to 100% capacity but outdoors by the pool have to be 6' social distance.

Maybe we need vaccinated and unvaccinated sections.  I thought I heard that was the plan for the New York ball parks.  There will be an unvaccinated sections where social distancing is required and then a vaccinated section where capacity is much higher.

[TeeRick]

2 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Maybe we need vaccinated and unvaccinated sections.  I thought I heard that was the plan for the New York ball parks.  There will be an unvaccinated sections where social distancing is required and then a vaccinated section where capacity is much higher.

Remember the days of smoking sections in restaurants?  And on airplanes?

[ECCruise]

Last night attended our first professional baseball game under the rules that are pretty similar to what is proposed for cruising.

Total capacity at 30% of availability (cruises will be more, likely)

Masks at ALL times unless actively eating or drinking.  And that means you can't pull your mask off, eat a peanut and then leave it off for 5 minutes until the next one.  Actively eating or drinking.

All food/drinks served either in socially distanced lines or delivered to your seat via an app. 

Six feet distance between all seating groups (similar, e.g., to the pool deck). 

 

Saw very little flaunting of the rules which were quickly enforced.

 

And ya know what, not a big deal at all.  First ball game in 20 months and still was great to be out at the ball park, interacting with people and enjoying the game. Doing something similar on a cruise line would not bother me a whit.

[wrk2cruise]

3 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Maybe we need vaccinated and unvaccinated sections.  I thought I heard that was the plan for the New York ball parks.  There will be an unvaccinated sections where social distancing is required and then a vaccinated section where capacity is much higher.

That makes more sense.   I guess it was the sound bite that said "Full capacity".    I think having advantages like this for fully vaccinated people is the only way we are going to convince the hesitant people to get the shot.   In NC our first shots have decreased by 2/3rds in the last 2 weeks.

[TeeRick]

6 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Even with passengers behaving poorly with very poor manners the buffet concept does contribute to Covid spread.  The problem is with everyone violating social distancing guidelines as people congregate around the food.  Buffets on cruise ships are probably more crowded than land based buffets.  In addition to the crew serving passengers , I think there will be an effort to regulate the flow of people into the food stations.

On a fully vaccinated ship with servers at the buffets, the risk of COVID spread is minimal IMO.  On land at a buffet, how do I know who has been vaccinated?  On the ship the risk of norovirus from the buffets is much higher than COVID even on a fully vaccinated ship.

[Jeremiah1212]

19 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

By the time cruises get going in a month or two, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will like be approved for everybody 12 and older.  

 

As of this past weeks call, with the caveat that obviously every element of this situation is subject to change, they were sticking to the 18+ guideline regardless of changes in availability for younger people. If all three US vaccines had the same or similar age guideline, I think they would reevaluate. 

[DirtyDawg]

Elimination of any self-serve food or drink options, such as buffets, salad bars, and drink stations.

I can live with that. Hated buffets anyways.

 

Prepackaged grab-and-go meals. Yummy!

‘Honey, lets’ spent $10 grand and eat out of a box, just like McD’s’. 🙄

 

Loungers and chairs will need to be six feet apart.

And you though chair hogging was bad before! 🐖

 

The prospect of cruising again just gets better and better, doesn't it.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[AbbyCruiser45]

I read through the guidelines but don't see anything about capacity. Has X released what they are aiming for capacity for their US sailings? I'm booked on the Equinox in July and there look to be many cabins available still. 

[JRG]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If you read carefully, these instructions are for the "simulated" and "restricted" cruises under the CSO, so even if a cruise line goes the vaccination route, their "restricted" cruises as defined under the CSO (the revenue cruises operating under the CSO), will still have to meet all these requirements.

 

I'm not arguing whether this statement is right or wrong,   but it seems like a non-sequitur for cruisers and perhaps this thread.

 

In other words,   its like describing the millimeter thickness of the polypropylene life rafts with other marine industry posters when the topic of the thread is E-musters.   (i.e.  it doesn't follow the spirit of the preceding posts or subject matter)

 

Tell us how you feel about the new take-away food,   outbreak management and one of the really hot topics like being able to do the independent port walkabouts.

 

Things like this are what cruisers want to know in the  future of cruising,  not the revision status of a particular document and the confusion created by overlapping wordsmithing on publication that is subject to change.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by JRG

[cangelmd]

Keep in mind that CDC considers cruising the highest risk category activity, on par with living in a congregation setting (like a nursing home), but add on more crowded indoors than a nursing home. Also, CDC, especially right noe, is a data driven organization and they are keenly aware of the gaps in the data used for decision making. They also have a better idea than we do of when new data is coming that will fill in some of those gaps.

The biggest unknowns now being how long will vaccine immunity last and how robust will that immunity be against variants. Also how will vaccine immunity interact with variants.

We don’t know yet if vaccinated persons can transmit a variant to unvaccinated people. My guess is that right now that is a very low risk, acceptable risk even to the CDC. But that’s a guess, and CDC wants to know quantitatively what that risk is before changing their recs. Also the variants themselves can change and make it more likely that immune people could become infected long enough to pass on the virus - I sure hope not.

 I truly think that we are looking 2023-4 before cruising returns to 2019.

I think the regulations on buffets will not change, period, because those aren’t about Covid, that’s an excuse, those are aimed at Noro which is a much tougher virus to eradicate, even though it isn’t as deadly.

Capacity, masking and social distancing onboard will likely gradually be relaxed as more data accumulates that vaccinated persons are not a danger to each other and that there’s a low risk of transmitting to non-vaccinated persons. I think the cruise lines have made it abundantly clear that they cannot survive on reduced capacity, so they have every incentive to prove cruising safe at the old capacities. Remember how tightly packed the crew live, normal capacity means 2 at least to a tiny cabin - so it’s going to take awhile to prove that and will likel mean there has to be very reduced virus circulating and increased vaccination worldwide- that’s the real reason I think it will take years, the whole world has to be addressed for leisure travel to return to what it was.

 

 I do think Caribbean cruises will return to something that looks relatively normal on fully vaccinated ships with vaccines required by early to mid 2022. Caribbean countries might well work out something with State Dept, cruise lines and CDC to liberalize shore excursions after vaccination campaigns. Solid data on the risk of vaccinated people getting reinfected (with or without personally getting sick) and spreading that infection to others will underpin all these decisions.

 

CDC primary reason for existence (which was almost forgotten during the last 30 or so years), is to PREVENT  the introduction of epidemic infectious diseases into the US and CONTROL the spread of those diseases. As much as we may not like it and what it will mean for a leisure activity we all enjoy, they are doing their job. I personally think they are too conservative about a number of things, but I’m very happy I’m not the one making the decisions they have to make.

[BCHappyGal]

It appears the CDC is pushing the crusielines to find homeports outside of North America...

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Remember the days of smoking sections in restaurants?  And on airplanes?

yes...and sitting right behind the smoking section and having to inhale it anyway. 

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

I'm not arguing whether this statement is right or wrong,   but it seems like a non-sequitur for cruisers and perhaps this thread.

 

In other words,   its like describing the millimeter thickness of the polypropylene life rafts with other marine industry posters when the topic of the thread is E-musters.   (i.e.  it doesn't follow the spirit of the preceding posts or subject matter)

 

Tell us how you feel about the new take-away food,   outbreak management and one of the really hot topics like being able to do the independent port walkabouts.

 

Things like this are what cruisers want to know in the  future of cruising,  not the revision status of a particular document and the confusion created by overlapping wordsmithing on publication that is subject to change.

 

 

 

 

 

Many of us very much appreciate the knowledgable contributions offered by @chengkp75 . They are very helpful in acquiring a better understanding of the subject matter for those that are interested. Your criticism is totally unwarranted.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, ECCruise said:

Last night attended our first professional baseball game under the rules that are pretty similar to what is proposed for cruising.

Total capacity at 30% of availability (cruises will be more, likely)

Masks at ALL times unless actively eating or drinking.  And that means you can't pull your mask off, eat a peanut and then leave it off for 5 minutes until the next one.  Actively eating or drinking.

All food/drinks served either in socially distanced lines or delivered to your seat via an app. 

Six feet distance between all seating groups (similar, e.g., to the pool deck). 

 

Saw very little flaunting of the rules which were quickly enforced.

 

And ya know what, not a big deal at all.  First ball game in 20 months and still was great to be out at the ball park, interacting with people and enjoying the game. Doing something similar on a cruise line would not bother me a whit.

Watched the Jays and Oakland game last night....something caught my eye in the stands behind the catcher...the snack distributor was hunkered down in the face of his two customers....none wearing a mask.  Just wondered if the California restrictions are different than other areas?  I think it's great they're opening up 'a little' and as more are vaccinated, we all may enjoy our sport outing.

[Fouremco]

4 hours ago, naturelovergirl said:

For those of us who are typically “independent” in port (definitely us) ... keeping the format of only organized tours long into the future will make it less appealing to chose a cruise as a traveling option.

I agree fully. Of all of the protocols, this is the one of most concern to us. We don't cruise until March of next year, but we may need to reevaluate at final payment time if these restrictions on independent activity ashore are still in place.

[jasmine196]

What is interesting is that I've gone to Buffet restaurants recently in a couple different states, and all allowed you to serve yourself (you just had to wear disposable gloves).  So if the land restaurants don't have to follow this, then why does the cruise industry have to.  

[CHEZMARYLOU]

When cruising in the Caribbean we are just as happy to stay on the ship in most ports.  One way to eliminate crowding at the buffet, even with food being plated by servers, would be to open the MDR, Blu and Luminae for lunch even on port days.  We do like sitting in the solarium and using the pool there.  A lot of times it isn't crowded even on a fully booked ship. We're also happy to sit on our balcony and enjoy the ocean and a few adult beverages.

[AbbyCruiser45]

1 minute ago, jasmine196 said:

What is interesting is that I've gone to Buffet restaurants recently in a couple different states, and all allowed you to serve yourself (you just had to wear disposable gloves).  So if the land restaurants don't have to follow this, then why does the cruise industry have to.  

The CDC cannot regulate restaurants (that's up to the local heath department). CDC does have control over cruise ships, however, which is why they can make them follow these protocol. 

[DirtyDawg]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

I'm not arguing whether this statement is right or wrong,   but it seems like a non-sequitur for cruisers and perhaps this thread.

 

In other words,   its like describing the millimeter thickness of the polypropylene life rafts with other marine industry posters when the topic of the thread is E-musters.   (i.e.  it doesn't follow the spirit of the preceding posts or subject matter)

 

Tell us how you feel about the new take-away food,   outbreak management and one of the really hot topics like being able to do the independent port walkabouts.

 

Things like this are what cruisers want to know in the  future of cruising,  not the revision status of a particular document and the confusion created by overlapping wordsmithing on publication that is subject to change.

 

 

 

 

 

Speak for yourself. I want to know about the millimeter thickness of the polypropylene life rafts and I'm just a silly sailing savourer (try saying that fast three times in a row).

 

Chenkp75's input here is like if Warren Buffett dropped into an investing bb while we were expressing our FEELINGS about the value Gamestop stock. (Yah, a little over-the-top but CC'ers will get the point)

 

 

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

10 minutes ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

When cruising in the Caribbean we are just as happy to stay on the ship in most ports.  One way to eliminate crowding at the buffet, even with food being plated by servers, would be to open the MDR, Blu and Luminae for lunch even on port days.  We do like sitting in the solarium and using the pool there.  A lot of times it isn't crowded even on a fully booked ship. We're also happy to sit on our balcony and enjoy the ocean and a few adult beverages.

 

I agree.  I rarely get off the ship in the Caribbean.  Those are the only types of cruises I am booking until we are free to do our own thing again.

[ECCruise]

26 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Watched the Jays and Oakland game last night....something caught my eye in the stands behind the catcher...the snack distributor was hunkered down in the face of his two customers....none wearing a mask.  Just wondered if the California restrictions are different than other areas?  I think it's great they're opening up 'a little' and as more are vaccinated, we all may enjoy our sport outing.

The general parameters were set by MLB but then it is up to each individual venue to enforce it.  So far, some are doing just that and others are simply looking the other way.