NCL leaving Florida? Will HAL follow?

[ontheweb]

13 minutes ago, lostinparadise999 said:

 

I have cruised NCL, not a fan but I have to admire them for taking the stand everyone must be vaccinated including crew. 

  

I 100% agree with both parts of that sentence.

[KirkNC]

12 hours ago, cruisegirl said:

It would serve the Florida governor right if the cruise companies went elsewhere and left him holding the bag. 

I think it’s a game of chicken 🐓.  Who will blink first.  I am betting it’s the Governor.

[chrisbu315]

At this point we should all understand the risks and make a personal decision.  The government nor the cruise lines are forcing you on-board.

[rucrazy]

20 minutes ago, chrisbu315 said:

At this point we should all understand the risks and make a personal decision.  The government nor the cruise lines are forcing you on-board.

Most sensible post I have seen in a while.

[Roz]

3 hours ago, lostinparadise999 said:

The cruise ship cannot put themselves in the same position they were in 2019, nor should the passengers accept their Florida's requirement when it puts everyone's safety and health at risk during the cruise.

 

What position were the cruise ships in back in 2019?

[leerathje]

I guess it all depends on how many will not sail if all the passengers aren't vaccinated. I, for one, will not sail if there isn't a requirement for vaccines.  I have tickets for the Rotterdam leaving Ft. Lauderdale on December 1, and will be cancelling if HAL doesn't require vaccinations, and I have told HAL that.

 

L.

 

[rkacruiser]

18 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

You understand that it’s not Canadians that are deciding this, correct?   It is not decision of the people getting vaccinated.  What would be your solution?

 

If it is not the decisions made in the past and currently by Health Canada, who are the decision makers for the good people of Canada?

 

I wish I had a solution.  I have an idea or two.  But, President Biden must have lost my phone number.  

 

15 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Don't worry about Canadians. We are rapidly vaccinating and catching up. We will receive a heavy supply of vaccine in the month of May. Completing the second dose by early August.

 

 

I appreciate very much reading your encouraging words.

 

4 hours ago, kazu said:

 

You are more optimistic than I. 😉 
 

I’ll believe it when I see it 😉 

 

I have Canadian friends of various ages, but one is 92 and one is 81.  I worry about them as well as the others.  

[iancal]

The VERY LAST  thing that any cruise line wants during the first few months of start up is a covid outbreak.  No matter how small.

 

I believe that they will ultimately act accordingly in the very best interests of their bottom line and their PR image/reputation.

Edited May 9, 2021 by iancal

[lostinparadise999]

1 hour ago, Roz said:

 

What position were the cruise ships in back in 2019?

In Dec 2019 when COVID was discovered and infected cruise ships had no where to go. We were booked on the Diamond Princess in Dec 2019. Luckily cancelled because our daughter had to work. We heard of the outbreak and thought luckily we did or we could have been one of the unfortunate souls bring the virus home with us.  

 

[Roz]

Just now, lostinparadise999 said:

In Dec 2019 when COVID was discovered and infected cruise ships had no where to go. We were booked on the Diamond Princess in Dec 2019. Luckily cancelled because our daughter had to work. We heard of the outbreak and thought luckily we did or we could have been one of the unfortunate souls bring the virus home with us.  

 

 

I don't think Covid really impacted cruising until 2020.  I say that because I was on a Panama Canal cruise that debarked in Miami on Feb. 14, 2020.  No Covid outbreak onboard that I was aware of, and Carnival never contacted me or anyone I knew on the cruise about the possibility of infection.  We were aware something was going on with some of the Princess ships, but it was being reported and treated as something similar to norovirus, with the emphasis on cleaning and sanitizing surfaces, not as an airborne pathogen.  

[lostinparadise999]

18 minutes ago, iancal said:

The VERY LAST  thing that any cruise line wants during the first few months of start up is a covid outbreak.  No matter how small.

 

I believe that they will ultimately act accordingly in the very best interests of their bottom line and their PR image/reputation.

Agree

The Westerdam had its start date moved to Sept 1,2021. It is suppose to do a TA from Venice in Oct 21 which we booked but looks like it will be cancelled as the ship is still in US waters. Doubt they will move the ship to Europe just to do a TA back. 

Looks like HAL is setting up ships in different areas to do regional 7 to 14 day cruise. Eurodam is taking Westerdam and Volendam place in modified Greece itinerary. 

[CruiserBruce]

6 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

I don't think Covid really impacted cruising until 2020.  I say that because I was on a Panama Canal cruise that debarked in Miami on Feb. 14, 2020.  No Covid outbreak onboard that I was aware of, and Carnival never contacted me or anyone I knew on the cruise about the possibility of infection.  We were aware something was going on with some of the Princess ships, but it was being reported and treated as something similar to norovirus, with the emphasis on cleaning and sanitizing surfaces, not as an airborne pathogen.  

Agree. The ill fated Grand Princess Hawaii cruise was very late in Feb 2020...we were on a land trip on Maui when she showed up. Less than a week later, people were sick on board. 

[lostinparadise999]

10 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Agree. The ill fated Grand Princess Hawaii cruise was very late in Feb 2020...we were on a land trip on Maui when she showed up. Less than a week later, people were sick on board. 

Interesting though, COVID was first discovered in Dec 18, 2019. Dr Ai Fen and Dr Li Wenliang shared the medical reports and they blew the whistle on Dec 30, 2019 so the local authorities couldn't covered it up anymore.  

 

[Roz]

26 minutes ago, lostinparadise999 said:

Interesting though, COVID was first discovered in Dec 18, 2019. Dr Ai Fen and Dr Li Wenliang shared the medical reports and they blew the whistle on Dec 30, 2019 so the local authorities couldn't covered it up anymore.  

 

 

That may well be the case, but no one told us if we boarded a cruise ship it could be a death sentence, and I don't think the means of transmission was established.  

[lostinparadise999]

14 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

That may well be the case, but no one told us if we boarded a cruise ship it could be a death sentence, and I don't think the means of transmission was established.  

We heard how bad the virus was from friends in Asia and by the docs posting in the Asian community. In Vancouver it was known well before it became known in Feb. The Asian community was already wearing mask and locking down at home in Jan 2020. That is why the Asian community had very low infection. As communication from China is very restrictive and filtered so the public does not know, especially western world. It was not until it became out of control in Feb that it was exposed. US had first case in Jan 2020 in Washington state. 

Also, we keep in contact with a lot of people we meet and the Asian couple we met on an Alaska cruise told us about it in early Dec 2019 before Dr Li exposed it. 

Now that the cruise ship knows how bad it could get they will take all necessary steps.

 

In CC news it said HAL will require vaccination for the cruises in Greece in August 2021 because Greece requires vaccination.

 

[Heartgrove]

Hopefully the Hurtigruten fiasco with un-vaccinated passengers in July 2020 is still remembered. 

[T8NCruise]

2 hours ago, lostinparadise999 said:

We heard how bad the virus was from friends in Asia and by the docs posting in the Asian community. In Vancouver it was known well before it became known in Feb. The Asian community was already wearing mask and locking down at home in Jan 2020. That is why the Asian community had very low infection. As communication from China is very restrictive and filtered so the public does not know, especially western world. It was not until it became out of control in Feb that it was exposed. US had first case in Jan 2020 in Washington state. 

Also, we keep in contact with a lot of people we meet and the Asian couple we met on an Alaska cruise told us about it in early Dec 2019 before Dr Li exposed it. 

Now that the cruise ship knows how bad it could get they will take all necessary steps.

 

In CC news it said HAL will require vaccination for the cruises in Greece in August 2021 because Greece requires vaccination.

 

The Asian community in Vancouver has always worn masks, for as long as I can remember.  Nothing new in Jan 2020.

[Dothan1952]

13 hours ago, chrisbu315 said:

At this point we should all understand the risks and make a personal decision.  The government nor the cruise lines are forcing you on-board.

But if they end up with another Diamond Princess fiasco it will be the cruise line that will take the financial hit, not the non vaccinated passenger that caused it, its all about trying not to go bankrupt 

[POA1]

18 hours ago, iancal said:

The VERY LAST  thing that any cruise line wants during the first few months of start up is a covid outbreak.  No matter how small.

 

I believe that they will ultimately act accordingly in the very best interests of their bottom line and their PR image/reputation.m

 

What happens if in-voyage testing is required? We know that there's a 2+% false positive rate. Multiply that by 1,000 - 2,000 pax and you're pretty much guaranteed what will be reported as an outbreak, even if no one gets sick.

 

My nephew tested positive right before Thanksgiving and was quarantined at college for 14 days. Follow up tests never found antibodies. In other words, a false positive. (An infection would have resulted in detectable antibodies.) The same thing happened to my barber and DW's nail girl. Neither of them got paid to sit home and wait.

 

I have neighbors who have been vaccinated and then tested positive. (I can only assume they're addicted to deep nasal swabbing. I figured the whole point of getting the shot or shots was to prevent Covid-19.) In their defense, they had some symptoms.

[chrisbu315]

9 hours ago, Dothan1952 said:

But if they end up with another Diamond Princess fiasco it will be the cruise line that will take the financial hit, not the non vaccinated passenger that caused it, its all about trying not to go bankrupt 

You are right, but cruise lines can decide not to do business in Florida.  I think this will all get worked out in the end.

[Dothan1952]

2 hours ago, POA1 said:

 

What happens if in-voyage testing is required? We know that there's a 2+% false positive rate. Multiply that by 1,000 - 2,000 pax and you're pretty much guaranteed what will be reported as an outbreak, even if no one gets sick.

 

My nephew tested positive right before Thanksgiving and was quarantined at college for 14 days. Follow up tests never found antibodies. In other words, a false positive. (An infection would have resulted in detectable antibodies.) The same thing happened to my barber and DW's nail girl. Neither of them got paid to sit home and wait.

 

I have neighbors who have been vaccinated and then tested positive. (I can only assume they're addicted to deep nasal swabbing. I figured the whole point of getting the shot or shots was to prevent Covid-19.) In their defense, they had some symptoms.

Covid 19 antibody testing is unreliable, especially the cheap rapid cartridge test (most manufactured in China by companies with little or no prior experience). Even IgG/IgM antibody testing done on complex analyzers are not perfect ( test too soon and IgG has not developed yet, but test too late and the IgM antibodies are already gone) Also your claim of a 2% false positive rate, it might  be true of a rapid antigen test (never the gold standard of any testing system for any infectious disease) but a quick review of the FDA approval documents show the the Cepheid Covid 19 PCR test had 0% false positive rate. Other than the Abbot PCR test (which was banned by many large hospital systems due to poor performance), almost all other PCR system have performances  similar to Cepheid.

[POA1]

10 minutes ago, Dothan1952 said:

Covid 19 antibody testing is unreliable, especially the cheap rapid cartridge test (most manufactured in China by companies with little or no prior experience). Even IgG/IgM antibody testing done on complex analyzers are not perfect ( test too soon and IgG has not developed yet, but test too late and the IgM antibodies are already gone) Also your claim of a 2% false positive rate, it might  be true of a rapid antigen test (never the gold standard of any testing system for any infectious disease) but a quick review of the FDA approval documents show the the Cepheid Covid 19 PCR test had 0% false positive rate. Other than the Abbot PCR test (which was banned by many large hospital systems due to poor performance), almost all other PCR system have performances  similar to Cepheid.

Is your point that they're going to be installing full blown labs on board if tests are required? If not, then it'll have to be rapid tests with their errors and, of course, "outbreaks."

 

My nephew had 4 antigen tests over a 6 week period. No positive results. I doubt he will have T-cell immunity.

[cruisemom42]

20 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

Hopefully the Hurtigruten fiasco with un-vaccinated passengers in July 2020 is still remembered. 

 Not to mention SeaDream I, which had an outbreak of COVID after an attempt to re-start cruising with no mask wearing onboard....

[Dothan1952]

11 hours ago, POA1 said:

Is your point that they're going to be installing full blown labs on board if tests are required? If not, then it'll have to be rapid tests with their errors and, of course, "outbreaks."

 

My nephew had 4 antigen tests over a 6 week period. No positive results. I doubt he will have T-cell immunity.

Why did he keep getting rapid antigen test, after the first negative result he really should have gotten a PCR (just not Abbott)

They can and probably will install small table top PCR analyzers on ships, Cepheid has several tablet top models, it would  be low volume testing but could handle testing passengers or crew suspected of having Covid  , its a moderately complex assay that any laboratory professional could run.

[POA1]

8 hours ago, Dothan1952 said:

Why did he keep getting rapid antigen test, after the first negative result he really should have gotten a PCR (just not Abbott)

They can and probably will install small table top PCR analyzers on ships, Cepheid has several tablet top models, it would  be low volume testing but could handle testing passengers or crew suspected of having Covid  , its a moderately complex assay that any laboratory professional could run.

My bad. It was an actual blood test, not a swabbing. BTW - If the # of amplification cycles is too high, you're going to get a lot of positive test results for people who aren't capable of infecting others.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html