Mask Mandate for cruises CDC?

[ChucktownSteve]

4 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

One point of correction:  No need to wear the mask when in your cabin.  So not quite 24/7.  However, your point remains.  I know what you mean and I wholeheartedly agree.  I'm all for wearing a mask under the current guidelines that are being used on land, but not these over the top, "nuclear option" rules they're proposing/ordering.  They're acting as if it's May of 2020 and as if the past few months of people getting vaccinated never happened.

 

I had a lot of people take me to task in my complaints in how the CDC was handling things. Some of the comments were, shall we say, less than nice.  However, it seems people are now seeing exactly what I was seeing all along.  The CDC is ignoring the science of right now and basing this decision on how things looked a year ago.  Hell, the director couldn't even tell anyone if is was safe to not wear mask outside when no one was around without "looking into it".  That's the type of leadership they have.  SMH.

 

K.T.B.,

 

If you think the CDC's masks rule while cruising is onerous now, this is what they''re considering for the next step.  It's for your own good.

Edited May 8, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[OnTheJourney]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:34 PM, TrulyBlonde said:

but this would not seem like a lovely vacation to us.

True enough, but it would also seem that it beats  sitting at home all the time and wondering if I'll ever cruise again. I'll do it with a mask if need be. 

 

On 5/7/2021 at 5:06 PM, KEG21552 said:

why the h   l did I get the vaccine?

to not only protect yourself, but also others. Vaccination doesn't necessarily imply that you won't get or transmit the virus to others. 

 

On 5/7/2021 at 5:02 PM, WestLakeGirl said:

I will bet that there will be no trivia, no slot pulls, no silent disco, no cabin crawls, No 24-hour coffee stations, No bridge playing allowed, and these are just a few of the things we look forward to

It boils down to what each of us look for in cruising. I personally have no interest in any of the things you refer to along with casinos, any sort of group-oriented activities, games, etc. (except for the occasional wine tasting). Other than visiting the ports, and going to the evening shows, I'm good with just being on my balcony enjoying the sea, wind, sunrise and sunset, a book...and some nice walks around the deck every day. 🤔 

Edited May 8, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[nocl]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:19 PM, K.T.B. said:

Love the headline.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings' Boss Tears Into CDC

 

And these 2 paragraphs pretty much nails it:

 

"We're willing to vaccinate every single person onboard a cruise ship. There isn't another venue on earth -- not a school, a factory, your office -- that can make that claim.

 

"We will be the safest place on earth -- by definition. On top of that vaccination mandate we are going to implement the 74 Healthy Sail recommendations. No one on earth has it -- yet the CDC continues to treat us differently and we dare say unfairly."

However they have not yet put their port agreements in place, they have not sent the attestation documents to the CDC indicating that they will, under penalty of law, that they will have at least 95% of passengers, and 98% of crew vaccinated. Which they certainly will have if they plan to require 100% vaccination. Nor have they said that they have submitted their full plan to restart.

 

Until they indicated that they have started to meet the first two items, the port agreements and the attestation documents that allow the test cruises to be waived, it is all just posturing on their part.

[harkinmr]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

However they have not yet put their port agreements in place, they have not sent the attestation documents to the CDC indicating that they will, under penalty of law, that they will have at least 95% of passengers, and 98% of crew vaccinated. Which they certainly will have if they plan to require 100% vaccination. Nor have they said that they have submitted their full plan to restart.

 

Until they indicated that they have started to meet the first two items, the port agreements and the attestation documents that allow the test cruises to be waived, it is all just posturing on their part.

Agreed. Del Rio is an hysteric and spends far too much time whining about how unfair the CDC is being. He wants out of the CSO. Plain and simple. I’d have a lot more respect for him if he was proclaiming that they were working on port agreements and filing protocol and action plans with the CDC in order to get a conditional permit to restart.  

[kearney]

13 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

True enough, but it would also seem that it beats  sitting at home all the time and wondering if I'll ever cruise again. I'll do it with a mask if need be. 

to not only protect yourself, but also others. Vaccination doesn't necessarily imply that you won't get or transmit the virus to others. 

Read this from Johns Hopkins School of Public Health Expert insights... Apr 9

"The emerging data confirms what many of us thought would be the case—that not only do the vaccines stop symptomatic COVID, but they also make it highly unlikely that someone can even be infected at all.

I think the preponderance of the evidence supports the fact that vaccinated individuals are not able to spread the virus." And they are not the only ones saying this...

  https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/07/fact-check-covid-19-vaccinated-people-dont-shed-virus/4971413001/

Risks of getting or shedding appear to be extremely low... We take risks every day... just by stepping into a bath tub to take a shower..or driving to work or flying to take a cruise. I don't see why a fully vaccinated ship should have to mask while on the ship or socially distance...now in port that is a completely different matter...but even there the reason is more for the comfort of the citizens of the island.. since they can not tell who is and who is not vaccinated. I wish the CDC would clarify if the protocols for test cruises will be different for their 95-98% vaccinated cruises... that would clear up a lot of the confusion.

[TrulyBlonde]

14 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

True enough, but it would also seem that it beats  sitting at home all the time and wondering if I'll ever cruise again. I'll do it with a mask if need be. 

 

 

I have been all over the world, every continent, and 30 some cruises. Enjoyed them all.

I also live in a beautiful home, in a beautiful resort town in the mountains of CO. I love it.

 

To each their own, but a cruise with these guidelines is not a vacation to me. I can take a nice road trip and stay at a 5 star resort.

[NMTraveller]

These mask rules do not sound like a vacation.  They are more strict than anyplace on land in the USA.

 

USA land vacations and foreign based cruises for me.

Edited May 9, 2021 by NMTraveller

[ECCruise]

22 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

I have been all over the world, every continent, and 30 some cruises. Enjoyed them all.

I also live in a beautiful home, in a beautiful resort town in the mountains of CO. I love it.

 

To each their own, but a cruise with these guidelines is not a vacation to me. I can take a nice road trip and stay at a 5 star resort.

Everyone hasn't been to every continent and on 30 some cruises, or your housing situation, so their needs, as you say, could vary a lot.

[kearney]

There has been discussion over how strict the mask rules will actually be on test vs the vaccinated sailings. But my concern is less what is written... which is confusing and unclear... but how it will be handled. As an example a family was recently kicked off a flight because their 2 year old special needs child was not wearing a mask...actually the video appeared to show the child eating. while I have not researched this.. I suspect that the CDC directives for this situation were less stringent than how the flight crew interpreted them....Anyway... if the cruise crew were to interpret the mask rules the same way the CEO of NCL does... I can just imagine someone coming up to you and telling you to put the mask on between bites. So it is less about what is written out by CDC and more about interpretation. 

[ECCruise]

10 minutes ago, kearney said:

There has been discussion over how strict the mask rules will actually be on test vs the vaccinated sailings. But my concern is less what is written... which is confusing and unclear... but how it will be handled. As an example a family was recently kicked off a flight because their 2 year old special needs child was not wearing a mask...actually the video appeared to show the child eating. while I have not researched this.. I suspect that the CDC directives for this situation were less stringent than how the flight crew interpreted them....Anyway... if the cruise crew were to interpret the mask rules the same way the CEO of NCL does... I can just imagine someone coming up to you and telling you to put the mask on between bites. So it is less about what is written out by CDC and more about interpretation. 

These are precisely my thoughts.

And why the CDC needs to get in front of this now, not only in mandates for cruising but in mandates for other activities also (e.g. air travel which you mentioned, as well as sporting events and others).

Way too much confusion and variations in application out there.

Edited May 9, 2021 by ECCruise

[K.T.B.]

10 hours ago, nocl said:

However they have not yet put their port agreements in place, they have not sent the attestation documents to the CDC indicating that they will, under penalty of law, that they will have at least 95% of passengers, and 98% of crew vaccinated. Which they certainly will have if they plan to require 100% vaccination. Nor have they said that they have submitted their full plan to restart.

 

Until they indicated that they have started to meet the first two items, the port agreements and the attestation documents that allow the test cruises to be waived, it is all just posturing on their part.

 

Well, agreements take a bit of time.  One cannot just blink their eyes like Jeannie and they're miraculously done.  The last I read, NCL (as an example) hope to have agreements in place within "a week or so".  So they are working with the ports.  The local authorities need to sign off on the arrangements.  (LINK)  I have no idea where the other cruise lines are at this point, but, if NCL is any indication, the lines are working on getting the agreements in place.  So, yes, they're working to meet the first two items.  The CDC, on the other hand, seems to want to put up blockades at every point.

 

Also, as pointed out elsewhere, the lines DID submit a plan back in September.  The CDC just responded back 7 months later.  One would think that the CDC would've come back with a plan that reflects the current conditions.  That's a big fat NO.  So now new plans need to be resubmitted because the CDC appears to be stuck in October of 2020 and are NOT giving proper guidance that is current and up to date.  Further delaying a re-start.

[OnTheJourney]

6 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

I have been all over the world, every continent, and 30 some cruises. Enjoyed them all.

I also live in a beautiful home, in a beautiful resort town in the mountains of CO. I love it.

Well...wow....you just have it all, don't you???   Had a cruise captain who was fond of saying, "life is beautiful" when he came on the intercom every morning. 

 

I get your point about cruising with masks. Road trips are still our favorite mode of travel, but I enjoy cruising enough that given a choice of doing it with a mask or not going at all for who knows how much longer - I'll wear the mask. Getting fairly used to it by now wherever we go anyway. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[LGW59]

4 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Well, agreements take a bit of time.  One cannot just blink their eyes like Jeannie and they're miraculously done.  The last I read, NCL (as an example) hope to have agreements in place within "a week or so".  So they are working with the ports.  The local authorities need to sign off on the arrangements.  (LINK)  I have no idea where the other cruise lines are at this point, but, if NCL is any indication, the lines are working on getting the agreements in place.  So, yes, they're working to meet the first two items.  The CDC, on the other hand, seems to want to put up blockades at every point.

 

Also, as pointed out elsewhere, the lines DID submit a plan back in September.  The CDC just responded back 7 months later.  One would think that the CDC would've come back with a plan that reflects the current conditions.  That's a big fat NO.  So now new plans need to be resubmitted because the CDC appears to be stuck in October of 2020 and are NOT giving proper guidance that is current and up to date.  Further delaying a re-start.

In a post from you earlier, you shared a link to the "plan".  Someone jumped all over it and said CLIA did not call it a "plan", in the link that you provided, they certainly did called it a plan, but I guess it was not in quotes or some such or it did not jibe with a CC experts opinion.   

[LGW59]

15 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Well...wow....you just have it all, don't you???   Had a cruise captain who was fond of saying, "life is beautiful" when he came on the intercom every morning. 

 

I get your point about cruising with masks. Road trips are still our favorite mode of travel, but I enjoy cruising enough that given a choice of doing it with a mask or not going at all for who knows how much longer - I'll wear the mask. Getting fairly used to it by now wherever we go anyway. 

If we need to be worried about saying where we have traveled, have a lovely home (no one said mansion) but even if so, good on them, what type of cabin/suite we stay in (I was called a bragger when I mentioned I MAY stay in a PH) etc, YIKES.  I have worked very very hard for 40+ years to be able to enjoy the fruits of that labor and I do.  I coached my sons youth soccer for many years, and my motto then, and is now, life is short so live it wide, whatever that means for each of us!!!  

[TrulyBlonde]

5 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

If we need to be worried about saying where we have traveled, have a lovely home (no one said mansion) but even if so, good on them, what type of cabin/suite we stay in (I was called a bragger when I mentioned I MAY stay in a PH) etc, YIKES.  I have worked very very hard for 40+ years to be able to enjoy the fruits of that labor and I do.  I coached my sons youth soccer for many years, and my motto then, and is now, life is short so live it wide, whatever that means for each of us!!!  

Thank you. Yes, I have worked very hard and earned every dime. No silver spoon here and should not be criticized because I have traveled well, live in a beautiful home in a beautiful place. I also choose to spend my money on what cabin suits us best. DH loves the space in a suite, business class air, and quite frankly it makes our travel much more tolerable with these choices. Otherwise, he would probably just stay home in his beautiful mansion 😉

 

Shame on the green eyed monsters out there. 

[harkinmr]

4 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Well, agreements take a bit of time.  One cannot just blink their eyes like Jeannie and they're miraculously done.  The last I read, NCL (as an example) hope to have agreements in place within "a week or so".  So they are working with the ports.  The local authorities need to sign off on the arrangements.  (LINK)  I have no idea where the other cruise lines are at this point, but, if NCL is any indication, the lines are working on getting the agreements in place.  So, yes, they're working to meet the first two items.  The CDC, on the other hand, seems to want to put up blockades at every point.

 

Also, as pointed out elsewhere, the lines DID submit a plan back in September.  The CDC just responded back 7 months later.  One would think that the CDC would've come back with a plan that reflects the current conditions.  That's a big fat NO.  So now new plans need to be resubmitted because the CDC appears to be stuck in October of 2020 and are NOT giving proper guidance that is current and up to date.  Further delaying a re-start.

The cruise lines JUST started working on port agreements after realizing the CSO was going to remain in place and hedging their bets that the pandemic was going to go away.  There was a lot they could have been doing in the planning process but they chose to sit back and wait.  The cruise lines DID NOT submit a plan to the CDC in September.  What they did submit, through CLIA and the Healthy Sail Panel, was a list of "recommendations" for protocols and procedures.  This was before the CSO was put in place.  

 

The CDC came out with technical guidance for port agreements on April 2nd.  They then presented a letter to the cruise lines on April 30th giving them the option to do test cruises OR start with vaccinated crew and passengers.  So far only ONE cruise line (NCL) has committed to do fully vaccinated sailing out of the US.  The others have been painfully silent.  On May 5th they gave them technical guidance for test cruises and an operations manual with protocols and procedures.  Now the ball is in the cruise lines court.  There are no "blockades" at this point. 

 

The operations manual was obviously prepared within the context of unvaccinated/partially vaccinated sailings.  I believe that once the cruise lines COMMIT to full fleet/fully vaccinated sailings, there will be some give on those protocols by the CDC for those cruise lines specifically based on the plan they submit.  But I imagine that masking and social distancing restrictions are not going to go away in their entirety.  

 

Think what you want about the protocols, but the cruise lines must now do the hard work for the restart.  If they don't like the protocols they've got the ear of the CDC and are meeting with them regularly.  Airing their grievances in the media is likely to get them nowhere.  I think they'll eventually figure it out.  

[OnTheJourney]

50 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

life is short so live it wide, whatever that means for each of us!!!  

Agreed...was really not trying to be any sort of green eyed monster - sorry it came across that way and that some sort of defensive response apparently seemed warranted.  I, too, worked very hard to get where I am. I love where I live also - wouldn't trade it.

 

A captain Picard quote from "Star Trek: Generations":  "I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."  (This, of course, can and should include how we treat others). What we're seeing on the CC boards over the past few months is a display of very strong feelings relative to this getting back to cruising, reopening the country and travel, etc. It's understandable but also invites some degree of testiness, since it has been frustrating for all, especially those of us for whom there are more days behind than ahead and thus are coping with the idea of a year+ having been lost that we don't get back (in terms of travel...and...well..other things too...visits with family, etc.). 

 

No offense meant, hopefully none taken. "Carpe diem"...or...wait...if you saw "Mrs. Doubtfire"...maybe it's "carpe dentum"?  😆

Edited May 9, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[TrulyBlonde]

11 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

 "I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."  

We hope to not leave anything behind. If we don't spend it, our kids certainly will. 🍷Cheers.

[Etta1213]

On 5/8/2021 at 8:48 AM, PTC DAWG said:

It is really  that simple. 

My guess is that the giveaway of money won't completely end till after the 2022 elections.  The pandemic is a valuable tool; it will be stretched o..u...t.

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Etta1213

[nocl]

5 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Well, agreements take a bit of time.  One cannot just blink their eyes like Jeannie and they're miraculously done.  The last I read, NCL (as an example) hope to have agreements in place within "a week or so".  So they are working with the ports.  The local authorities need to sign off on the arrangements.  (LINK)  I have no idea where the other cruise lines are at this point, but, if NCL is any indication, the lines are working on getting the agreements in place.  So, yes, they're working to meet the first two items.  The CDC, on the other hand, seems to want to put up blockades at every point.

 

Also, as pointed out elsewhere, the lines DID submit a plan back in September.  The CDC just responded back 7 months later.  One would think that the CDC would've come back with a plan that reflects the current conditions.  That's a big fat NO.  So now new plans need to be resubmitted because the CDC appears to be stuck in October of 2020 and are NOT giving proper guidance that is current and up to date.  Further delaying a re-start.

They did not submit a plan. They submitted the recommendations of the safe sail panel which was certainly not a plan. It was a list of items a cruise line might chose to implement. Not an actual plan detailing exactly what they would implement and how it would be done.

[LGW59]

Just now, nocl said:

They did not submit a plan. They submitted the recommendations of the safe sail panel which was certainly not a plan. It was a list of items a cruise line might chose to implement. Not an actual plan detailing exactly what they would implement and how it would be done.

you say car I say cah, you say car keys I say khakis

[nocl]

51 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The cruise lines JUST started working on port agreements after realizing the CSO was going to remain in place and hedging their bets that the pandemic was going to go away.  There was a lot they could have been doing in the planning process but they chose to sit back and wait.  The cruise lines DID NOT submit a plan to the CDC in September.  What they did submit, through CLIA and the Healthy Sail Panel, was a list of "recommendations" for protocols and procedures.  This was before the CSO was put in place.  

 

The CDC came out with technical guidance for port agreements on April 2nd.  They then presented a letter to the cruise lines on April 30th giving them the option to do test cruises OR start with vaccinated crew and passengers.  So far only ONE cruise line (NCL) has committed to do fully vaccinated sailing out of the US.  The others have been painfully silent.  On May 5th they gave them technical guidance for test cruises and an operations manual with protocols and procedures.  Now the ball is in the cruise lines court.  There are no "blockades" at this point. 

 

The operations manual was obviously prepared within the context of unvaccinated/partially vaccinated sailings.  I believe that once the cruise lines COMMIT to full fleet/fully vaccinated sailings, there will be some give on those protocols by the CDC for those cruise lines specifically based on the plan they submit.  But I imagine that masking and social distancing restrictions are not going to go away in their entirety.  

 

Think what you want about the protocols, but the cruise lines must now do the hard work for the restart.  If they don't like the protocols they've got the ear of the CDC and are meeting with them regularly.  Airing their grievances in the media is likely to get them nowhere.  I think they'll eventually figure it out.  

NCL committed in a letter where they has to be excused from the CSO.

 

They have not committed themselves in a plan submitted to the CDC that would legally commit themselves to requiring vaccinations.

[nocl]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

you say car I say cah, you say car keys I say khakis

As someone who works for a law firm I am pretty sure that you would know the difference between a non binding report of recommendations compared to a detailed plan submitted to a regulatory authority.

[LGW59]

18 minutes ago, nocl said:

As someone who works for a law firm I am pretty sure that you would know the difference between a non binding report of recommendations compared to a detailed plan submitted to a regulatory authority.

I do yes and I have been very involved in both our current Limited Access Phase - LAP (currently 10% of all employees on any given day) for working in the office and the Return To Office - RTO phase, which will start after Labor Day, 50% allowed in the office.  I submit my recommendations to our most Sr Executive Management, include with that the most up-to-date state guidance.  Each of our US offices are reviewed differently of course, based on most up-to-date information from each state government board of health.  We have retained and engaged epidemiologists in various regions of the country to advise and guide us, we follow their expert advise, and are back to somewhat "normal" office operations in each region of the country that we have offices in, 12 in US, 4 in Asia and 2 in Europe.  It works, the cruise lines are trying to do the same thing but IMO are being penalized and stymied each step of the way.  

Edited May 9, 2021 by LGW59

[nocl]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I do yes and I have been very involved in both our current Limited Access Phase - LAP (currently 10% of all employees on any given day) for working in the office and the Return To Office - RTO phase, which will start after Labor Day, 50% allowed in the office.  I submit my recommendations to our most Sr Executive Management, include with that the most up-to-date state guidance.  Each of our US offices are reviewed differently of course, based on most up-to-date information from each state government board of health.  We have retained and engaged epidemiologists in various regions of the country to advise and guide us, we follow their expert advise, and are back to somewhat "normal" office operations in each region of the country that we have offices in, 12 in US, 4 in Asia and 2 in Europe.  It works, the cruise lines are trying to do the same thing but IMO are being penalized and stymied each step of the way.  

You are sidestepping the question does the safe sail report sent by the CLIA to the CDC with a request for them to drop the CSO. meet the definition of a plan as required by the CDC?