Azamara excursions with a maximum age 70 rule

[Rabidcruiser]

I can understand the logic of both fit (over 70) cruisers and the tour providers here. i am 72 and know my limitations and would not now book certain energetic tours anyway, It is not clear as to just how few tours this"over 70" limit permits for each cruise and at what cost. My wife ( under 70) is now reluctant to book a cruise with Azamara ( a favorite line for many years pre pandemic) because this might limit us to just bus tours.

I see an irony in this as many ships tours were previously promoted by evidently young staff which did stretch some (unfit) persons ( of any age). Does Azamara now publish a list of all excursions , for each cruise showing which tours are allowed for over 70's which are not just a bus tour round town? I certainly would not to see an age discrimination set in stone as it breaches individual rights and in the UK at least  would be deemed illegal. The problem is ensuring that ALL people are aware of their own limitations and do not penalise the safety and enjoyment others with them. Simple age discrimination is NOT the way.

[NC&KY]

Well we talked our way onto a national park hike next week. Talked to excursions desk and told her we were over 65 but could do the hike. She said ok and booked us!

[Baynanno1]

12 hours ago, NC&KY said:

Well we talked our way onto a national park hike next week. Talked to excursions desk and told her we were over 65 but could do the hike. She said ok and booked us!

 

Enjoy your hike!

You may have seen post #75 in this thread.

[Benthayer Gonbak]

On 11/15/2018 at 1:58 PM, Grandma Cruising said:

I know they have bikes on board and when you look at the shore excursions you can see bike excursions, I have not been on one, so can’t tell you any more about the bikes.

The biking I saw was in the Baltics.  There is an age limit too.  

[islandwoman]

15 minutes ago, Benthayer Gonbak said:

 There is an age limit too.  

What do you mean? Please specify - upper or lower age limits? 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

16 hours ago, islandwoman said:

What do you mean? Please specify - upper or lower age limits? 

As I recall it was either 70 or 72 max.  I was told because of the insurance.  I certainly know more than a few 70 year olds that could out do many 40 year olds, some were on our Machu Picchu trip.  

[islandwoman]

1 hour ago, Benthayer Gonbak said:

As I recall it was either 70 or 72 max.  I was told because of the insurance.  I certainly know more than a few 70 year olds that could out do many 40 year olds, some were on our Machu Picchu trip.  

Thanks for the warning.  I would hate to plan on something only to be told that I'm not wanted.  

[islandwoman]

Thank  you all for your most informative posts about Azamara's age discrimination policies.  I agree that those who are physically unable to participate in a tour group should not sign up, but excluding those over the age of 70 does not solve that problem and it does discriminate unjustly against fit seniors.  Now I have to decide if I'll cancel the four Azamara cruises I have booked for 2023. At this point, I don't know whether there are ship's excursions I would like to book that would be prohibited for me.  But it's the line's policy that I find unacceptable.  I don't want to do business with a company that discriminates based on age or on anything else for that matter.

Wouldn't it be nice if Azamara's new owners changed that policy?  Has anyone heard anything like that?

[islandwoman]

While I'm on the subject of cruise line age discrimination, does anyone know of a cruise line that does NOT discriminate against older people?

[luv2travel90266]

Booking through independent tour operators has not been a problem. Another benefit of going outside the "official cruise line excursions" is smaller groups and better prices. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by luv2travel90266

[nordski]

4 hours ago, islandwoman said:

Thank  you all for your most informative posts about Azamara's age discrimination policies.  I agree that those who are physically unable to participate in a tour group should not sign up, but excluding those over the age of 70 does not solve that problem and it does discriminate unjustly against fit seniors.  Now I have to decide if I'll cancel the four Azamara cruises I have booked for 2023. At this point, I don't know whether there are ship's excursions I would like to book that would be prohibited for me.  But it's the line's policy that I find unacceptable.  I don't want to do business with a company that discriminates based on age or on anything else for that matter.

Wouldn't it be nice if Azamara's new owners changed that policy?  Has anyone heard anything like that?

I can only guess that this is a policy set by Azamara’s insurance company to cover liability issues and the litigation that might ensue if a medical event occurred on a physically demanding tour.

 

In that context, the companies with whom I might want to access added travel/health insurance are very clear that they discriminate based upon age.or underlying health concerns.

In fact I wouldn’t invest in one that didn’t.

 

Of course there are always examples of those whose fitness level is outside the norms of their age cohort. 

[Leo_On_Geo]

4 hours ago, islandwoman said:

Thank  you all for your most informative posts about Azamara's age discrimination policies.  I agree that those who are physically unable to participate in a tour group should not sign up, but excluding those over the age of 70 does not solve that problem and it does discriminate unjustly against fit seniors.  Now I have to decide if I'll cancel the four Azamara cruises I have booked for 2023. At this point, I don't know whether there are ship's excursions I would like to book that would be prohibited for me.  But it's the line's policy that I find unacceptable.  I don't want to do business with a company that discriminates based on age or on anything else for that matter.

Wouldn't it be nice if Azamara's new owners changed that policy?  Has anyone heard anything like that?

The age limits for shore excursions are usually determined by the shore excursion company. Azamara cannot control what their requirements are. I have found that age limits exist in some countries and not in other countries. For example the age to scuba dive in the Caribbean is much lower than it is to scuba dive in the Red Sea. I don’t think you can blame Azamara for what the shore excursion companies require.

[Benthayer Gonbak]

7 hours ago, islandwoman said:

Thanks for the warning.  I would hate to plan on something only to be told that I'm not wanted.  

i was apalled actually!  While I didn’t really qualify for other reasons, I did push back on the age as a poor way to discriminate those who shouldn’t go! 
 

my Dad’s balance is bad now, but he can still ride a stationary bike for more than 30 minutes.  He’s 97!  I can make 5-10 minutes😂

[uktog]

I understood it was insurers who set the age limits. They can apply to excursions sold by the cruise line or privately and the vendor should follow them. The difference is Azamara know your age from your passport etc and it’s locked into your record. A private provision may not even check (though they should for certain types of excursions) and may take risks that nothing will go wrong. 

[islandwoman]

Just when I and other seniors have the time and money to cruise, Azamara and/or the insurance companies prohibit us from doing what we'd like in ports of call.  The logic is reminiscent of that which the banks used to justify redlining, in that just because you belong to a certain group, you are a bad risk.

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by islandwoman

[Leo_On_Geo]

38 minutes ago, islandwoman said:

Just when I and other seniors have the time and money to cruise, Azamara and/or the insurance companies prohibit us from doing what we'd like in ports of call.  The logic is reminiscent of that which the banks used to justify redlining, in that just because you belong to a certain group, you are a bad risk.

 

You’re free to do what you want to do. You just have to find a provider who’s willing to do it with you. The tour providers may have insurance risks that they’re not willing to take for person of a certain age. Like uktog said you can always lie about your age to a private provider and you can do whatever you want. 

[uktog]

10 hours ago, Benthayer Gonbak said:

i was apalled actually!  While I didn’t really qualify for other reasons, I did push back on the age as a poor way to discriminate those who shouldn’t go! 
 

my Dad’s balance is bad now, but he can still ride a stationary bike for more than 30 minutes.  He’s 97!  I can make 5-10 minutes😂

It is not discrimination - its a risk based assessment by the insurers who are providing insurance for the activity.  There will always be outliers in these sorts of decisions eg those who can but are excluded and those who cannot but are included.  Just as I purchase car insurance for my car, the insurers assess my premium based on my age and the type of car.  I may be a far better driver than average but my premium is based on the overall assessment for my age.  The use of risk calculations is a basic in insurance, without it every singe transaction would be individually negotiated which would be chaos

Edited June 23, 2022 by uktog

[islandwoman]

2 hours ago, Leo_On_Geo said:

You’re free to do what you want to do. You just have to find a provider who’s willing to do it with you. The tour providers may have insurance risks that they’re not willing to take for person of a certain age. Like uktog said you can always lie about your age to a private provider and you can do whatever you want. 

Thank you for the suggestion. But it's easier said than done.  It's a bit of work to locate such a provider and with age comes experience;  I no longer think it's fun to risk missing the ship's departure. And of course, independent tour providers don't take onboard credit as payment! 

[islandwoman]

36 minutes ago, uktog said:

I may be a far better driver than average but my premium is based on the overall assessment for my age.  The use of risk calculations is a basic in insurance, without it every singe transaction would be individually negotiated which would be chaos

Don't you get a good driver discount?

 

uktog said:  "every singe transaction would be individually negotiated"

That's what computers are for.

 

[uktog]

20 minutes ago, islandwoman said:

Don't you get a good driver discount?

 

uktog said:  "every singe transaction would be individually negotiated"

That's what computers are for.

 

Yes but even that is risk averaged (believe me I work connected to the insurance industry)   Not sure what computers have to do with it as it would be impossible to underwrite every transaction individually 

Edited June 23, 2022 by uktog

[Pizzasteve]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:46 PM, Cruizer Diana said:

 

My DH and I booked a fall cruise on Azamara in the Med and one in the Caribbean. We don’t usually do ship’s tours. But, since that is potentially the only excursions that will be allowed in the near future, I’ve been looking at the potential excursions. So far, I’ve found two basic cycling excursions and a short, basic snorkeling excursion that cite a maximum age of 70 and a minimum age of 12. I am fit and bicycle 20-30 miles in a day about 5 days a week. I’ve gone on numerous snorkeling trips with a strong current in the Caribbean, Hawaii, and French Polynesia. This is the first time I’ve encountered an age limit for such basic activities. It’s not like I’m swimming the English Channel or joining the Tour de France!

 

Do they think a 70-year old can only totter to the Panoramic Tour bus and back?

Is there a way to appeal this arbitrary rule?

I'd be glad to prove my physical fitness.

Age based limits definitely suck, but at least its 70.  My wife and I, in our 50s, were recently rejected for a Argentina glacier hike which limited participation to those 50 and under. 

 

It didnt matter that we hike 10+ mile hikes 3-4 times a week with 2000 feet or more of climbing, passing on the trails exhausted 20 somethings on hills.  Apparently, hanging on to ropes was required and muscle strength declines with age.

 

We moved on with our life and still had a good time.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Pizzasteve

[Benthayer Gonbak]

9 hours ago, uktog said:

It is not discrimination - its a risk based assessment by the insurers who are providing insurance for the activity.  There will always be outliers in these sorts of decisions eg those who can but are excluded and those who cannot but are included.  Just as I purchase car insurance for my car, the insurers assess my premium based on my age and the type of car.  I may be a far better driver than average but my premium is based on the overall assessment for my age.  The use of risk calculations is a basic in insurance, without it every singe transaction would be individually negotiated which would be chaos

i originally state it was insurance.  My point was that to determine or discriminate which people are good risks doesn’t have to be by age.  And, discriminating does not have to have the negative connotations discrimination has.   There are other methods to separate those worth risking besides age that insurance companies use.  Our auto insurance does not go up by age, it is distance driven and number of previous accidents.  Most-likely it also includes credit rating, as has been reported in numerous news reports.  
 

in Australia near the barrier reefs which had just been severely damaged by a cyclone they used waivers for those over 70, if I recall correctly.  Everyone signed a waiver, but there was an addition waiver which sort of read like an against medical advice.  
 

i actually met the age requirement but believed that I wouldn’t be able to do a longish tour at speed.  I’d hope that age is not the only discriminator, at least!  

[Benthayer Gonbak]

9 hours ago, islandwoman said:

Thank you for the suggestion. But it's easier said than done.  It's a bit of work to locate such a provider and with age comes experience;  I no longer think it's fun to risk missing the ship's departure. And of course, independent tour providers don't take onboard credit as payment! 

I think you could easily find a bike tour in the Netherlands that would definitely get you back to the ship on time.  They might also have an age limit though.  I agree about needing to use OBC.  

[Benthayer Gonbak]

24 minutes ago, Pizzasteve said:

Kind of sucks.  At least its 70.  My wife and I were rejected for a glacier hike which limited to 50 and under.  We hike 10+ mile hikes 3-4 times a week with 2000 feet or more of climbing, passing on the trails exhausted 20 somethings on hills.

 

We are also wise enough to pack the proper rescue and survival gear, water, etc.  Lawyers!

when I did the Grand Canyon, only part way, we met most of the Sierra Club returning from already reaching the bottom! Many looked in their late 70s.  
 

As for rescues, I mostly did canoeing, including whitewater.  Our club did a training on rescue that was done so well that we were buzzed several times by a helicopter.  The Forest Service had been notified, but it didn’t occur to anyone to notify the group that flew over!  We waved them off, but they came back a couple of times presumably until they notified the Forest Service!  Most of what we needed was rescue equipment, but yes almost everyone also had a space blanket too!  There are some interesting rescue methods that have been used for dams, the Fire Department in I believe Ohio had successfully master them. They did however require a conscious boater!  
 

The wilderness trips I led, as a counselor, showed young teens that they gain strength quickly.  Toward the end of the trip they were always amused by the college guys that couldn’t portage what they now could!  
 

Was the glacier hike I Juneau?  50 yo seems a bit low. 

[Pizzasteve]

15 minutes ago, Benthayer Gonbak said:

when I did the Grand Canyon, only part way, we met most of the Sierra Club returning from already reaching the bottom! Many looked in their late 70s.  
 

As for rescues, I mostly did canoeing, including whitewater.  Our club did a training on rescue that was done so well that we were buzzed several times by a helicopter.  The Forest Service had been notified, but it didn’t occur to anyone to notify the group that flew over!  We waved them off, but they came back a couple of times presumably until they notified the Forest Service!  Most of what we needed was rescue equipment, but yes almost everyone also had a space blanket too!  There are some interesting rescue methods that have been used for dams, the Fire Department in I believe Ohio had successfully master them. They did however require a conscious boater!  
 

The wilderness trips I led, as a counselor, showed young teens that they gain strength quickly.  Toward the end of the trip they were always amused by the college guys that couldn’t portage what they now could!  
 

Was the glacier hike I Juneau?  50 yo seems a bit low. 

I edited my post, as most likely arent interestef in rescue work.  The glacier hike was in Argentina.  We had just hiked the W Trek in Pategonia and found it pretty easy, but I guess this one required some climbing and rope skills they assumed a 50+ wouldnt be ok with.