First fully vaccinated flights Florida to NY

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Exactly.  When policy is driven by an "impending feeling of doom" it makes one wonder what science that came from.  IMHO they have not promoted the fact that if vaccinated and if you do contract covid it will be a mild case or one with no symptoms.  It is one thing to be cautious and another to be told you still need to act like it is 2020 even if vaccinated.  However, there are a lot of people who are perfectly happy being told how many plants they and their neighbors can have on their front porches.

Exactly why I own a piece of property and don't live in a condo with an HOA.

[jrapps]

5 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Wait a minute, so you're saying a person is MORE prone to disease if he's around the same vaccinated people on a ship than a constantly changing group of new people coming into a restaurant all the time who may NOT be vaccinated? If that's the case, please point me to the inevitable massive outbreak (not isolated incidents, mind you) onboard the MSC Grandiosa that has sailed since last August.

No not at all. I was suggesting that a person is more prone to catching Covid if he's around the same UN-vaccinated people on a ship than a constantly changing group of new people. I totally agree if the whole ship is vaccinated, then these rules are unfair. I can also see how the CDC can't mandate that everyone is vaccinated (suggest or push for, but not mandate) so they make their rules for the least common denominator.

 

I want to see them lighten this up, I just also can see where they are coming from. That doesn't mean I agree with it, I just can see it from the other perspective.

[Ocean Boy]

6 minutes ago, jrapps said:

 the risks of having an outbreak on a ship, and the negative press that comes with that, just aren't worth the effort to do more to help cruising start faster. Its sad, but it makes sense.

That sounds more like politics than science. And if the public is so detached from cruising that they don't care as you say, then why should they care much about an outbreak on a ship that they have no intention of ever getting on?

[DCGuy64]

Just now, jrapps said:

No not at all. I was suggesting that a person is more prone to catching Covid if he's around the same UN-vaccinated people on a ship than a constantly changing group of new people. I totally agree if the whole ship is vaccinated, then these rules are unfair. I can also see how the CDC can't mandate that everyone is vaccinated (suggest or push for, but not mandate) so they make their rules for the least common denominator.

 

I want to see them lighten this up, I just also can see where they are coming from. That doesn't mean I agree with it, I just can see it from the other perspective.

But the CDC is talking about 95% of passengers being vaccinated, and NCL is demanding 100%. So let's focus on that and less on the "OMG, this could be terrible" scary stories. Let's focus on what the actual recommendations are.

[Pratique]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

That sounds more like politics than science. And if the public is so detached from cruising that they don't care as you say, then why should they care much about an outbreak on a ship that they have no intention of ever getting on?

Because people like to complain about a lot of things that they don't really care about, or don't actually affect them.

[jrapps]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

That sounds more like politics than science. And if the public is so detached from cruising that they don't care as you say, then why should they care much about an outbreak on a ship that they have no intention of ever getting on?

Because people LOVE sensational news. Just look at our culture. We may not really care about something, but when the news dooms and glooms about it, people eat it up. I 10000% agree, it's political.

 

All I was suggesting was that people will go out of their way to avoid bad press if there isn't much upside to that alternative. Pissing off the 4% of us that love to cruise may be worth it to avoid that bad press.

[Pratique]

1 minute ago, jrapps said:

Because people LOVE sensational news. Just look at our culture. We may not really care about something, but when the news dooms and glooms about it, people eat it up. I 10000% agree, it's political.

 

All I was suggesting was that people will go out of their way to avoid bad press if there isn't much upside to that alternative. Pissing off the 4% of us that love to cruise may be worth it to avoid that bad press.

Of course it is political. There are members of Congress lobbying the CDC to stay the course and suspend cruising. I'd say the CDC is in a no-win situation in the court of public opinion.

[jrapps]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

But the CDC is talking about 95% of passengers being vaccinated, and NCL is demanding 100%. So let's focus on that and less on the "OMG, this could be terrible" scary stories. Let's focus on what the actual recommendations are.

The CDC is SUGEGSTING 95% passengers. Other than NCL, I have yet to see any other cruise line actually embrace that. It's just talking points from both sides right now.

 

Until I see an actual sailing scheduled that asks guests to certify they are vaccinated, it's just posturing.

 

This is the RCL forum, and I have cruises on RCL and Disney (no NCL) planned. I have yet to see any word from RCL about if they will or will not require vaccines, and the FL politics muddy that further. We can focus on  NCL if you want, but I don't believe that is a realistic focus on getting RCL or the industry as a whole back up and running.

 

I am not saying "OMG this could be terrible". Maybe The CDC is. All I can do is look objectively at a situation from both sides, try to understand both of them, and look for ways they can meet in the middle (even though I have no power in the situation, only hope)

[Ocean Boy]

9 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Because people LOVE sensational news. Just look at our culture. We may not really care about something, but when the news dooms and glooms about it, people eat it up. I 10000% agree, it's political.

 

All I was suggesting was that people will go out of their way to avoid bad press if there isn't much upside to that alternative. Pissing off the 4% of us that love to cruise may be worth it to avoid that bad press.

I would agree with you if we were not dealing with an organization that is, supposedly,  making its decisions based in science. If they want to move into the political realm then they should expect the same amount of trust and respect that Americans give to our politicians.

[DCGuy64]

5 minutes ago, jrapps said:

The CDC is SUGEGSTING 95% passengers. Other than NCL, I have yet to see any other cruise line actually embrace that. It's just talking points from both sides right now.

It's a smaller line, but Saga has.

Also, the CDC guidelines are incumbent on all cruise lines that want to avoid test cruises and the associated delays. So if Richard Fain wants RCL to have revenue generating cruises soon, they'll have not choice but to get crew and passengers vaccinated.

I just Googled "cruise lines that require vaccinations" and this article appeared.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/cruises/cruises-that-allow-vaccinated-travelers

RCL is listed there, too. 😁

 

 

 

 

 

Share: Every Cruise Line Requiring Passengers to Be Vaccinated Before Boarding

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As cruises are finally starting to hit the high seas after a difficult year filled with cancellations and question marks, many are requiring proof of vaccination against COVID-19 to board.

Several cruise lines, like Celebrity Cruises and Norwegian Cruise Line, have planned summer, sailings in the Caribbean and Europe, taking advantage of the vaccine rollout to give guests peace of mind as well as plan cruises to destinations that require the jab, like Iceland.

The move is also in line with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's recommendation that both passengers and crew be vaccinated before boarding a ship.

"What we're hearing from our cruisers is that a wide majority — 86% — will cruise if vaccine requirements are in place," editor-in-chief of Cruise Critic, Colleen McDaniel, told Travel + Leisure, calling the decision by major lines to mandate the jab "pretty significant."

 

"And of our readers who have already been vaccinated, most say that their vaccine makes them even more likely to take a cruise — and they're ready to travel in the very near future," she added.

Below, we break down each line welcoming vaccinated cruisers as well as what travelers need to know if they plan to sail.

American Cruise Lines

Where they sail: American Cruise Lines sails up and down U.S. rivers on both coasts, including the Mississippi River and the Columbia and Snake rivers, and visits over 30 states. Currently, sailings are at reduced capacity.

Who needs the vaccine: Vaccines are currently required for all cruise departures through April 30th. Vaccines may or may not be required for all  2021 cruises, as requirements may vary depending on where a cruise is sailing and date of departure. 

What other safety measures are in place: Ships are currently operating at 75% capacity and each ship has the ability to test passengers onboard.

 

Find out more: American Cruise Lines

American Queen Steamboat Company

Where they sail: The American Queen Steamboat Company is known for its Mississippi River cruises as well as sailings down other U.S. rivers like the Columbia and Snake rivers, using classic paddle wheeler ships for a throwback romantic vibe.

Who needs the vaccine: All guests and crew must be fully vaccinated (14 days after their final shot) for sailings starting July 1.

What other safety measures are in place: Before boarding, guests must check in to a pre-cruise hotel and get tested for COVID-19. Luggage is then disinfected before being brought onto the ship and staterooms cleaned with electrostatic fogging. Masks will be required when social distancing isn't possible.

Find out more: American Queen Steamboat Company

Celebrity Cruises

Celebrity Apex

| Credit: Courtesy of Celebrity Cruises

Where they sail: Celebrity Cruises sails all over the world, and is planning several itineraries for this summer. Celebrity will debut its new "Celebrity Apex" ship in Greece in June, as well as set sail from St. Maarten on its renovated Celebrity Millennium starting in June.

Who needs the vaccine: Guests 18 and older must be vaccinated at least two weeks before boarding. Those under 18 (and older than 2 years old) will be required to show proof of a negative RT-PCR test.

What other safety measures are in place: Celebrity has added more doctors and nurses to their ships along with critical care beds and rapid testing. Guests will only be allowed off the ship on a Celebrity shore excursion.

Find out more: Celebrity Cruises

Crystal Cruises

Where they sail: Crystal will sail seven-night trips from Nassau and Bimini starting in July on the Crystal Serenity, as well as sail 10-night cruises from St. John's in Antigua in August. Those looking to trade beaches for adventure can head out on one of the company's expedition cruises crossing the Arctic Circle from Iceland starting in July.

Who needs the vaccine: Crystal will require all guests to be fully vaccinated at least 14 days before boarding.

What other safety measures are in place: In addition to the vaccine, guests will have to test negative for COVID-19 before boarding and wear masks when appropriate. In the event someone gets sick, Crystal's ships will be equipped with ventilators and PCR testing equipment.

Find out more: Crystal Cruises

Cunard

Where they sail: Cunard, which sails all over the world, is known for its transatlantic journeys aboard the Queen Mary 2. When Cunard returns to the high seas, it will be with a series of UK-only sailings on the Queen Elizabeth.

Who needs the vaccine: Cunard's initial cruises will be open only to UK residents who are fully vaccinated at least seven days before boarding. Voyages departing on the Queen Elizabeth after Oct. 2, departing on Queen Mary 2 after Nov. 13, and departing on Queen Victoria after Aug. 28 will not carry the vaccine requirement.

What other safety measures are in place: Cunard has "enhanced" their onboard ventilation systems and implemented mandatory mask-wearing policies. Crew will be tested regularly while on board. Guests who have certain pre-existing medical conditions, including those who are on supplementary oxygen, will not be allowed to board.

Find out more: Cunard

Grand Circle Cruise Line

Where they sail: Grand Circle Cruise Line sails small ships and river cruises all over the world, including an extensive list of European itineraries. The company plans to start sailing again in August, including to Greece, Turkey, and Italy.

Who needs the vaccine: All passengers must be fully vaccinated at least 14 days before boarding. All crew will be fully vaccinated as well.

What other safety measures are in place: All ships have been equipped with High Efficiency Particular Air (HEPA) filters and buffets have been eliminated.

Find out more: Grand Circle Cruise Line

Lindblad Expeditions

Where they sail: Lindblad Expeditions is known for its adventurous trips to hard-to-reach destinations like Antarctica and the Russian Far East, partnering with National Geographic to add to the experience. In June, Lindblad Expeditions plans to resume operations with trips to Alaska and the Galápagos.

Who needs the vaccine: All guests 16 years old and older will need to be vaccinated before boarding.

What other safety measures are in place: In addition to vaccines, all guests will be required to show proof of a negative COVID-19 PCR test as well as undergo a second rapid antigen test before boarding.

Find out more: Lindblad Expeditions

Norwegian Cruise Line

Where they sail: Norwegian sails big ocean cruises all around the world, including popular itineraries all throughout the Caribbean. This summer, the company plans to sail from Montego Bay, Jamaica; Punta Cana, Dominican Republic; and Athens, Greece.

Who needs the vaccine: All guests will be required to be fully vaccinated at least two weeks before boarding for sailings through at least Oct. 31.

What other safety measures are in place: In addition to vaccines, guests will be required to undergo a rapid antigen test before boarding as well as a second rapid antigen test before disembarking. Guests will be required to wear face masks indoors as well as outdoors when social distancing isn't possible. Each ship will have a dedicated Public Health Officer on board as well as an Infectious Disease Prevention Officer.

Find out more: Norwegian Cruise Line

Oceania Cruises

Where they sail: Oceania Cruises sails all over the world, including offering several World Cruise itineraries. The cruise company has currently paused operations through at least July 31.

Who needs the vaccine: When cruises do resume, all guests will be required to be fully vaccinated at least two weeks before boarding.

What other safety measures are in place: Guests will be required to undergo a rapid antigen test before boarding as well as a second rapid antigen test before disembarking. Initially, the company will "control the guest capacity onboard" as well as have a Public Health Officer and Infectious Disease Prevention Officer on board.

Find out more: Oceania Cruises

Royal Caribbean International

Royal Caribbean's Jewel of the Seas

| Credit: Courtesy of Royal Caribbean

Where they sail: Royal Caribbean sails large ocean ships all over the world, including many popular itineraries throughout the Caribbean and Asia. This summer, Royal Caribbean will sail from Israel, Cyprus, and the Bahamas.

Who needs the vaccine: Guests 18 and older will be required to be fully vaccinated at least 14 days before boarding. Guests under 18 must show proof of a negative RT-PCR test.

Edited May 12, 2021 by DCGuy64

[jrapps]

7 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I would agree with you if we were not dealing with an organization that is, supposedly,  making its decisions based in science. If they want to move into the political realm then they should expect the same amount of trust and respect that Americans give to our politicians.

I am NOT disagreeing with you. But the CDC has long been treated with the same trust and respect we give to politicians (aka none). That is nothing new.

 

I am NOT defending them, I am just trying to understand their position and a way forward. As long as everyone points to the CDC, politicians, and each other as the "enemy" here, we are never going to get anywhere. I just try to see the perspective of those I disagree with, makes it much easier to have a civil discussion.

[jrapps]

10 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Who needs the vaccine: Guests 18 and older will be required to be fully vaccinated at least 14 days before boarding. Guests under 18 must show proof of a negative RT-PCR test

I believe this is still for the international cruises form the Bahamas.

 

Has RCL posted anything official about cruises restarting from US ports, and a comment on requiring vaccines? If so I have not seen it. I have cruises booked and have yet to get an email from them telling me that I must be vaccinated or have to cancel it. I've seen people on news saying soundbytes and posturing, but that is not the same as policy. 

 

When it comes to cruising restarting in the US and the CDCs perspective on that, they are still offering options for doing that without requiring vaccines, which means they are still going to set guidelines to accommodate that (read: HARSH). I for one would welcome them changing the guidelines to REQUIRE vaccines and then get rid of all the rest, but there are others (even here in this forum) that have a different opinion on requiring vaccines. So everyone is just stuck in this middle ground.

 

If RCL draws their line in the sand, says what the intend to do, then we can move forward from that position. I haven't see it yet.

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I believe this is still for the international cruises form the Bahamas.

 

Has RCL posted anything official about cruises restarting from US ports, and a comment on requiring vaccines? If so I have not seen it. I have cruises booked and have yet to get an email from them telling me that I must be vaccinated or have to cancel it. I've seen people on news saying soundbytes and posturing, but that is not the same as policy. 

 

When it comes to cruising restarting in the US and the CDCs perspective on that, they are still offering options for doing that without requiring vaccines, which means they are still going to set guidelines to accommodate that (read: HARSH). I for one would welcome them changing the guidelines to REQUIRE vaccines and then get rid of all the rest, but there are others (even here in this forum) that have a different opinion on requiring vaccines. So everyone is just stuck in this middle ground.

 

If RCL draws their line in the sand, says what the intend to do, then we can move forward from that position. I haven't see it yet.

OK, maybe that's on me, I assumed we WERE talking about cruises from the US. AFAIK vaccinations haven't been required on cruises originating outside the US. My bad, sorry.

We also have a couple of cruises booked and one is on MSC, who so far isn't requiring them. We've both been vaccinated and are good to go, no matter what.

[Pratique]

58 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I would agree with you if we were not dealing with an organization that is, supposedly,  making its decisions based in science. If they want to move into the political realm then they should expect the same amount of trust and respect that Americans give to our politicians.

You make it sound like this was voluntary. They didn't want to move into the political realm, they were sucked in when their DC office was leaderless last year. By having their headquarters in Atlanta, they were not well positioned to deal with the forces of Washington, DC.

 

(If you can get past the headline, worth a read: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/13/cdc-apolitical-island-defenseless/)

Edited May 12, 2021 by Pratique

[broberts]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

But the CDC is talking about 95% of passengers being vaccinated, and NCL is demanding 100%. So let's focus on that and less on the "OMG, this could be terrible" scary stories. Let's focus on what the actual recommendations are.

 

This is an assumption that I don't believeve is entirely accurate. The CDC has essentially offered two paths towards cruise resumption. The first involves test cruises and no vaccination requirement. The second requires 95% / 90% vaccination levels.

 

Many of the CDC criticisms in this thread seem to presume 100% vaccination levels on cruises. It's a false premise that only makes the criticisms look pretty and unreasonable to those that understand the actual current situation.

 

Personally I wish the CDC would simply insist on fully vaccinated voyages. It would greatly simplify resumption and eliminate undesirable mitigation practices. But I understand that this will never happen because apparently even asking someone to show proof of vaccination would violate sacred rights. (I'd be satisfied with a signed confirmation and acceptance of liability.)

 

As long as there is no certainty that even the 95% / 98% vaccination levels are met I don't see how the CDC can not require unpleasant onboard mitigation rules. Since there is currently unchallenged law in FL preventing vaccination certainty it seems the onboard mitigation rules are going to stay.

[broberts]

17 minutes ago, Pratique said:

You make it sound like this was voluntary. They didn't want to move into the political realm, they were sucked in when their DC office was leaderless last year. By having their headquarters in Atlanta, they were not well positioned to deal with the forces of Washington, DC.

 

(If you can get past the headline, worth a read: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/13/cdc-apolitical-island-defenseless/)

 

A certain part of the CDC job has always had an element of politics. The science can tell how effective this or that is, but politics informs which might be more effectively implemented.

[DCGuy64]

37 minutes ago, broberts said:

Personally I wish the CDC would simply insist on fully vaccinated voyages

You mean with 0 room for errors or missed passengers? I don't.

And as far as the recommendations go, I think the 98/95% rule was intended to be an, ahem, "inducement" to get the cruise lines to allow only vaccinated guests. Since it's either that or wait 60 days for a simulated cruise, I think it's a classic case of using both the carrot and the stick.

And yes, I realize "only" 95% of passengers isn't "only" vaccinated guests, but it's pretty damned near!

 

[DCGuy64]

38 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

A certain part of the CDC job has always had an element of politics. The science can tell how effective this or that is, but politics informs which might be more effectively implemented.

That'll be news to people on here who swear that the CDC is just here to protect us and couldn't possibly be motivated by anything like politics, Scout's honor! 😉

[Pratique]

45 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

A certain part of the CDC job has always had an element of politics. The science can tell how effective this or that is, but politics informs which might be more effectively implemented.

True, but these are trying times for all of us, no?

[broberts]

11 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You mean with 0 room for errors or missed passengers? I don't.

And as far as the recommendations go, I think the 98/95% rule was intended to be an, ahem, "inducement" to get the cruise lines to allow only vaccinated guests. Since it's either that or wait 60 days for a simulated cruise, I think it's a classic case of using both the carrot and the stick.

And yes, I realize "only" 95% of passengers isn't "only" vaccinated guests, but it's pretty damned near!

 

 

You are right, 0% error is probably unrealistic. I'd accept a small margin of error. My only concern with unvaccinated passengers is what can happen to interrupt or extend the voyage.

[ArthurUSCG]

16 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You mean with 0 room for errors or missed passengers? I don't.

And as far as the recommendations go, I think the 98/95% rule was intended to be an, ahem, "inducement" to get the cruise lines to allow only vaccinated guests. Since it's either that or wait 60 days for a simulated cruise, I think it's a classic case of using both the carrot and the stick.

And yes, I realize "only" 95% of passengers isn't "only" vaccinated guests, but it's pretty damned near!

 

I think the 98%/95% is also to allow for wiggle room. For damaged or unreadable CDC cards, for moving crew around and a few are on day 13 instead of day 14 after the 2nd shot. It's only 2 or 5 people out of 100, it's just enough to reduce red tape and allow flexibility instead of a Zero tolerance rule.

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, Pratique said:

You make it sound like this was voluntary. They didn't want to move into the political realm, they were sucked in when their DC office was leaderless last year. By having their headquarters in Atlanta, they were not well positioned to deal with the forces of Washington, DC.

 

(If you can get past the headline, worth a read: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/13/cdc-apolitical-island-defenseless/)

I never made any statement as to the causes of the political infiltration.

[Joebucks]

3 hours ago, jrapps said:

This is the logic that I believe the CDC does not agree with. 

 

Yes, a dining room at sea is like a restaurant on land, and a pool deck at sea is like a pool on land, etc, etc. But I also think an argument can be made that all of these things together are more than the sum of their parts. A cruise ship contains the SAME PEOPLE, going to the same venues, over and over again. When you go to a restaurant on land, the people who sit near you are likely those you have never seen before and won't see again. When you are in a bubble with the same people, the risk factors can be higher especially if there can be a few infected people. On land, even if it spreads, those vectors go off in different directions. An infected person at a restaurant might spread it to another person, who then spreads it to another person, but that vector goes off and never circles back. But if you infect one person, and then those 2 people are now in the same dining room again, and again, and again, it can multiply at a much faster rate.

 

Typical fearmongering that originates from zero fact or logic. Just throwing out baseless scenarios because we are ingrained to fear the boat.

 

Let's say for the sake or argument, the only thing cruise lines required is passing a covid test. That in theory would assist in controlling and potentially limiting the possibility of an infection entering. Other things could be done too. Whereas with other vacation options, you could encounter with limitless numbers of people with little to no control.

 

I was just in Florida. Between all of the different places we were, we came in contact with a LOT of people whether it was locals, at bars, in ubers, cycling guests at the resort, etc etc. It's a tough sell to say that a controlled environment would be anymore dangerous because I'm seeing the same people. 

 

[Pratique]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

Typical fearmongering that originates from zero fact or logic. Just throwing out baseless scenarios because we are ingrained to fear the boat.

 

There are plenty of facts. As early as the Middle Ages it was recognized that infectious diseases could be brought by ship. The word "quarantine" is derived from the Italian for "forty" because originally ships were held in isolation for 40 days. It has long been known that ships provide an ideal environment for the transmission of infectious diseases. That doesn't mean that the current CDC guidelines are appropriate, but there is a historical basis for treating ships differently from bars in Florida.

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

There are plenty of facts. As early as the Middle Ages it was recognized that infectious diseases could be brought by ship. The word "quarantine" is derived from the Italian for "forty" because originally ships were held in isolation for 40 days. It has long been known that ships provide an ideal environment for the transmission of infectious diseases. That doesn't mean that the current CDC guidelines are appropriate, but there is a historical basis for treating ships differently from bars in Florida.

The movement of infectious diseases around the world by ship in the middle ages and beyond, and their movement around the world in this day and age is about as different as night and day. Mixing of different populations was nowhere near the scale that we have today. And the sanitation aboard ships was fairly nonexistent as was refrigeration. The odds of sickness aboard a ship on months long voyages under long ago conditions is simply not comparable to a present day cruise ships. Sanitation and refrigeration are key elements to providing a healthy environment. And with the exception of occasional Noro issues, the cruise lines have done a fantastic job.