No mask Required at CocoCay

[Tippyton]

3 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

Sorry  - not going to follow the advice of an infographic from someone on the internet.  I dont drink from that bucket.  Double mask anyone?

 

 

 

 

[At Sea At Peace]

4 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

 

I concur.  They sure love their control...I mean mask mandates.

 

First, unvaccinated, there is considerable angst about the effectiveness of most of the masks people are wearing and how improperly they are wearing and handling them.  However, during the dangerous unknown early time period of the pandemic, pre-vaccine, I thought that masks were essential in most settings.

 

Post vaccination, I don't understand the governments logic behind requiring the masks, social distancing, how one hugs, etc.  It hints that either the vaccines don't work, at worst, or that there is no lifestyle change reward for getting vaccinated.

 

Per a TV video reporter at the Injunction hearing in Florida yesterday, the CDC sticks to it two Princess cruise ships in February of 2022.  That is disingenuous at best.  It also ignores the return to safe sailings in Europe and Asia, without even requiring vaccinations.  Ditto.

 

If the CDC stance is based on the fact that the vaccines are not 100% effective (of what, infection, transmission, symptomatic, severity, medical care, etc.) and that is the reason that cruises cannot be allowed, then cruises will never be allowed per that dogma.  

 

If vaccinations make the difference, the anti-cruise lines and cruisers will then lament that the cruise lines can't trusted to retain the proper documentation or digitally incorporate it into their systems and that is why the CDC must "watch them."

 

Also, ridding the "requirement of masking" doesn't preclude anyone the freedom to choose to wear one or to select cruises where such protocols are to be still in place.

[Iamcruzin]

9 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

When did it get so high ?

It's $500 a week plus $300 Stimulus. Last year it was $500 plus $600 stimulus. Minimum wage in NYC is $15 an hour and Long Island is $14 an hour so all of those who were working those minimum wage retail or restaurant jobs before the shutdown have no incentive to return to work.  

[Tippyton]

4 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

Even if you make your own bulletproof vest out of different patterns and different colors, you have to wear mine because it is consistently made.  [Enter non-scientific conclusion jump].  Therefore, because mine is more consistently made it is more effective].  FTFY

[ricka47]

13 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Had Covid, got the tshirt.  Not getting the vaccination because there is no medical reason to.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.660019/full

 

Although neutralizing antibodies can wane over time, long-lasting B and T memory cells can persist in recovered individuals. The natural immunological memory captures the diverse repertoire of SARS-CoV-2 epitopes after natural infection whereas, currently approved vaccines are based on a single epitope, spike protein

My wife and I both came home from a shortened cruise last March with Covid and have antibodies now. I've had the vaccine (Pfizer) but my wife has not. Our doctor says that there is no reason for us to get vaccinated. I did it just for the sake of traveling.

 

Yet, will the cruise lines accept the fact when my wife wears her Covid t-shirt when boarding?

[BecciBoo]

16 hours ago, baldilocks said:

 

Good grief !!! Transmission by a vaccinated person is rated at .007%. Unless you have a honest N95 mask with all the approvals, wearing a 98 cent variety mask isn't going to do any good. So far, all known variants have been effectively handled by the present vaccines.

Yeah, I don't buy it either!  But different strokes for different folks.

[baldilocks]

16 hours ago, Tippyton said:

I interviewed a guy today who proudly told me unemployment pays him $25 per hour.

According to news reports I have read, a person on the 'dole' in MA makes $40K a year and in WI makes $32K per year. Why work....

[BecciBoo]

My brother is a diagnostician dental epidemiologist and taught at UT Dental graduate school until retirement.  His knowledge of how vaccines are formulated and how they work is pretty vast.  He had Covid and still got the vaccine.  He agrees with what Marion's Mom posted.

[time4u2go]

2 hours ago, ricka47 said:

My wife and I both came home from a shortened cruise last March with Covid and have antibodies now. I've had the vaccine (Pfizer) but my wife has not. Our doctor says that there is no reason for us to get vaccinated. I did it just for the sake of traveling.

 

Yet, will the cruise lines accept the fact when my wife wears her Covid t-shirt when boarding?

I'm curious...has your wife actually been tested for antibodies recently?

[baldilocks]

16 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

Exactly— all known variants.  Which has nothing to do with new, unknown variants that can and will come into being.  Most will be irrelevant, but it only takes one to get the ball rolling.  So the guidelines are an effort to meet in the middle between resumption of normal activities and trying to prevent that one unknown from taking hold

 

The Covid virus will be with us for years to come....just like the flu. Does that mean we have to wear masks and stand six feet apart for years? There will always be risks in life. You just have to weigh the risks for yourself and family. I choose to live a life of freedom...not living in constant fear.

[DCGuy64]

21 hours ago, sandebeach said:

AS mentioned, this from a TSA letter, so it looks like they are using the CDC time period of 15 minutes?

 

D. The requirement to wear a mask does not apply under the following circumstances:

1. When necessary to temporarily remove the mask for identity verification purposes.

2. While eating, drinking, or taking oral medications for brief periods.4 Prolonged periods of mask removal are not permitted for eating or drinking; the mask must be worn between bites and sips.

3. While communicating with a person who is deaf or hard of hearing, when the ability to see the mouth is essential for communication.

4. If unconscious (for reasons other than sleeping), incapacitated, unable to be awakened, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.

4 The CDC has stated that brief periods of close contact without a mask should not exceed 15 minutes. See https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Exactly, which is why it is, IN MY OPINION, not much of a stretch for the CDC and TSA to be singing from the same songsheet. You can say that, as of today, the CDC isn't telling people to put their masks on between sips like the TSA is, but if you think it's impossible for exactly that to occur, you are extremely naive. They're both part of the US government, so what one agency adopts, another could absolutely do.

[Ourusualbeach]

2 hours ago, ricka47 said:

My wife and I both came home from a shortened cruise last March with Covid and have antibodies now. I've had the vaccine (Pfizer) but my wife has not. Our doctor says that there is no reason for us to get vaccinated. I did it just for the sake of traveling.

 

Yet, will the cruise lines accept the fact when my wife wears her Covid t-shirt when boarding?

As of the current guidelines for ships sailing from non US ports your wife would not be allowed to sail.

 

Do I need a COVID-19 vaccine to cruise? What documents count as proof of vaccination? How far in advance do I need to get my vaccine?

A

 

 

At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19, along with all crew members onboard. Each guest must submit proof of vaccination no later than boarding day, in the form of the original vaccination record  document issued by either (1) the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination (e.g., U.S. CDC's Vaccination Record Card) or (2) the guest's medical provider that administered the vaccination. Electronic vaccination records will only be accepted for residents of those countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form (e.g., a unique QR code). The vaccination record submitted to Royal Caribbean must show that the guest is fully vaccinated. This means that the guest has completed the full cycle of required doses for the vaccine administered (e.g., received the second dose in a two-dose series), and that the guest has received the final dose at least 14 days before sailing.

All guests must present proof of vaccination as well as all required travel documents upon arrival at the ship terminal.

 

[BecciBoo]

13 hours ago, Jasukkie said:

I'm a healthcare worker who was vaccinated back In December. We are seeing some breakthrough cases among employees, but no one has gotten sick enough to be hospitalized. That's the point of the vaccine. I'm leery that a few people will test positive in Nassau and not be permitted back in the US, while having sub-clinical infection with extremely small risk of spread. There really is no point to testing vaccinated people returning home.  We don't test people getting on airplanes domestically, or going into restaurants, or stores, etc. I love cruising and I hope this all works, but the media will pounce if anyone is denied entry back to the US.

The voice of reason....

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

As of the current guidelines for ships sailing from non US ports your wife would not be allowed to sail.

 

Do I need a COVID-19 vaccine to cruise? What documents count as proof of vaccination? How far in advance do I need to get my vaccine?

A

 

 

At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19, along with all crew members onboard. Each guest must submit proof of vaccination no later than boarding day, in the form of the original vaccination record  document issued by either (1) the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination (e.g., U.S. CDC's Vaccination Record Card) or (2) the guest's medical provider that administered the vaccination. Electronic vaccination records will only be accepted for residents of those countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form (e.g., a unique QR code). The vaccination record submitted to Royal Caribbean must show that the guest is fully vaccinated. This means that the guest has completed the full cycle of required doses for the vaccine administered (e.g., received the second dose in a two-dose series), and that the guest has received the final dose at least 14 days before sailing.

All guests must present proof of vaccination as well as all required travel documents upon arrival at the ship terminal.

 

True, but in two minutes, they could insert the words "or show proof of recent recovery" right after "Covid 19"  in the first sentence. They're also smart by putting the words "at this time" at the beginning. Lots of leeway there.

[Ourusualbeach]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

True, but in two minutes, they could insert the words "or show proof of recent recovery" right after "Covid 19"  in the first sentence. They're also smart by putting the words "at this time" at the beginning. Lots of leeway there.

Sure, they could do anything at anytime but as of right now they aren't which is all that matters

[Tippyton]

2 hours ago, ricka47 said:

My wife and I both came home from a shortened cruise last March with Covid and have antibodies now. I've had the vaccine (Pfizer) but my wife has not. Our doctor says that there is no reason for us to get vaccinated. I did it just for the sake of traveling.

 

Yet, will the cruise lines accept the fact when my wife wears her Covid t-shirt when boarding?

Not just cruise lines.  I call us the silent 20% as we are ignored in all policy being set forth.  The science.

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Sure, they could do anything at anytime but as of right now they aren't which is all that matters

You mean like a week ago when the CDC was still saying "no self guided excursions"  and then reversed course yesterday? Yes, "as of right now," which can and likely WILL change, especially by the time Royal is taking people to Coco Cay, which is all that matters in this thread. 👍

BTW why is right now "all that matters," do you get to decide what matters and what doesn't? Wow, who made you God? LOL

Edited May 13, 2021 by DCGuy64

[BecciBoo]

18 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

I think the goal is to regain as much normal activity and socialization possible, while being cognizant of the remaining risks.  Of course, some prefer not to take that approach.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-gupta-cdc-mask-guidance  Fox published this, but the review came from CNN so take your pick.  This is Sanjay Gupta, American neurosurgeon, medical reporter, and writer.

"If you’re vaccinated, I don’t think you need to wear a mask indoors either," Gupta said. "This is what the science is sort of showing, and I think the CDC just needs to probably say that. They’re erring on the side of caution. I get it. I think we've all been traumatized here, but I think at this point it has to be very clear what the science shows, and what you can do as a result of that." 

Edited May 13, 2021 by BecciBoo

[3kidsncats]

8 minutes ago, baldilocks said:

 

The Covid virus will be with us for years to come....just like the flu. Does that mean we have to wear masks and stand six feet apart for years? There will always be risks in life. You just have to weigh the risks for yourself and family. I choose to live a life of freedom...not living in constant fear.

Living in constant fear would be a sad way to live, I agree.  Understanding the risks, and following protocols to mitigate them, even when the protocols are annoying does not equal living in constant fear.  For some it may, but for many it is a way to care about others and be a responsible member of society.  I am not of the opinion that my right to live a life of freedom is more important than the health of society as a whole.  

[jrapps]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

You mean like a week ago when the CDC was still saying "no self guided excursions"  and then reversed course yesterday? Yes, "as of right now," which can and likely WILL change, especially by the time Royal is taking people to Coco Cay, which is all that matters in this thread. 👍

I think we can all agree that whatever the rules are, they WILL change.

 

The real question is not IF but WHEN. All we can do for now is go by what the rules are as of today. If they change tomorrow, we will all celebrate, and then continue to argue how tomorrow's rules are unfair 😂

[Ourusualbeach]

16 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You mean like a week ago when the CDC was still saying "no self guided excursions"  and then reversed course yesterday? Yes, "as of right now," which can and likely WILL change, especially by the time Royal is taking people to Coco Cay, which is all that matters in this thread. 👍

Yes things change however to base decisions on whether you will cruise or not based on such speculation is foolish.  IMO I don't see them allowing a past covid infection to replace the vaccine requirement.  far to many unknowns as to how long the antibodies last based on severity of initial infection and how long ago it was but that's just my opinion.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Ourusualbeach

[3kidsncats]

2 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Yes things change however to base decisions on weather you will cruise or not based on such speculation is foolish.  IMO I don't see them allowing a past covid infection to replace the vaccine requirement.  far to many unknowns as to how long the antibodies last based on severity of initial infection and how long ago it was but that's just my opinion.

I agree — and as more data is compiled and analyzed, reports are coming out that indicate immune response is better from the vaccine than previous infection, especially with regards to known variants.  

[jrapps]

26 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Exactly, which is why it is, IN MY OPINION, not much of a stretch for the CDC and TSA to be singing from the same songsheet. You can say that, as of today, the CDC isn't telling people to put their masks on between sips like the TSA is, but if you think it's impossible for exactly that to occur, you are extremely naive. They're both part of the US government, so what one agency adopts, another could absolutely do.

Oh, I believe it's possible. I'm just not going to worry about it until they actually come out and say it. We have too much to worry about with the rules already posted, I can't worry about conjecture.

 

Edit: My problem is some people talk as if that is already etched in stone, that the CDC WILL do this. They MIGHT do this. but we in reality have no idea what they will do until they do it.

Edited May 13, 2021 by jrapps
added to my post

[ricka47]

16 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Not just cruise lines.  I call us the silent 20% as we are ignored in all policy being set forth.  The science.

 

Yeah, I'd like to see "vaccinated or recovered" maybe.  I was down for 2-1/2 weeks and my wife had it much worse and, unfortunately, is one of the "long-haulers" who still has symptoms over a year later despite having antibodies.

[DCGuy64]

And what I'm saying is that THE GUIDELINES ARE CHANGING EVERY SINGLE DAY. If you're of the opinion that "all that matters is what the rules are today," then you're not paying enough attention.

Every single day I read of another country opening up to tourism in Europe, every single day I read a news story about restrictions being relaxed with regard to social distancing, mask wearing, outdoor/indoor dining, etc, and every single day I see another report showing either that the CDC's recommendations are being challenged because their evidence was flawed or the CDC itself is easing its own restrictions. So unless you're boarding a cruise ship TODAY, what the rules are today matters little. What matters is the trends, and they are getting better every day, so by the time you actually sail, I say they'll be much looser. Only time will tell who's right.