5-13-21 New CDC Covid 19 "When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated" guidlines...

[MishelleMcc]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html?fbclid=IwAR25-qVoQVJC6dZOEW6orzKyNuYRJtQv_qSU9vwwi8dNCZ3BnjoEFELVglI

 

Making progress?  I am feeling encouraged!  Lets see how it all "shakes out"...

[AZjohn]

3 minutes ago, MishelleMcc said:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html?fbclid=IwAR25-qVoQVJC6dZOEW6orzKyNuYRJtQv_qSU9vwwi8dNCZ3BnjoEFELVglI

 

Making progress?  I am feeling encouraged!  Lets see how it all "shakes out"...

Glad you posted this because I just was reading about this.

 

This is huge and exactly what we needed to get the ball rolling (for cruising and also everything else).

I think this was the step that was needed to confirm vaccinated people can get back to kind of normal.

 

Though this does not include trains, planes, and cruise ships yet, it's a huge step forward to the next step🙂

[4hunters]

More good news!

[MishelleMcc]

21 minutes ago, AZjohn said:

Glad you posted this because I just was reading about this.

 

This is huge and exactly what we needed to get the ball rolling (for cruising and also everything else).

I think this was the step that was needed to confirm vaccinated people can get back to kind of normal.

 

Though this does not include trains, planes, and cruise ships yet, it's a huge step forward to the next step🙂

You are right...  All these other modes of transportation will need adjusting and I think the big "elephant in the room" is how do the concerns about Variants fit into this new guideline.  

 

Still Great news!

 

Add:  Apparently 3 different studies (details unknown to me) confirms that the Vaccines are working!!  THAT is fantastic news!!!!

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by MishelleMcc

[Redwing55]

It is, but this demonstrates how risk averse the CDC is.  Their caution is going way beyond what is appropriate.  There hasn't been ANY new data recently, yet the CDC just came out with this today.  The fact that not much has changed shows how arbitrary the CDC is with setting guidelines and restrictions.

[Mike45LC]

5 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

The fact that not much has changed shows how arbitrary the CDC is with setting guidelines and restrictions.

 

+1!

[AZjohn]

4 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

There hasn't been ANY new data recently, yet the CDC just came out with this today. 

This is a quote from Dr. Walensky about previous studies they used to make their decision (I'm guessing peer review?):

 

Calling it an "exciting and powerful moment," Walensky said the science supports the updated CDC guidance that "anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities -- large or small -- without wearing a mask or physical distancing."

She cited three studies -- one from Israel and two from the United States -- that show vaccines work.

 

[MishelleMcc]

6 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

It is, but this demonstrates how risk averse the CDC is.  Their caution is going way beyond what is appropriate.  There hasn't been ANY new data recently, yet the CDC just came out with this today.  The fact that not much has changed shows how arbitrary the CDC is with setting guidelines and restrictions.

These are early days and the studies apparently didn't involve large groups of people but if it's reasonable to conclude that the Vaccines are working, then we move forward.  Nothing is 100%.  It's all part of this new world we live in.  I still feel like this is good news.

 

[MishelleMcc]

6 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

 

+1!

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2779853

 

apparently there were published studies that fueled the update.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by MishelleMcc

[LACruiser88]

I think this puts more pressure on Princess to declare a vaccination mandate for their crew and passengers.  Come on Princess get with it!!!

[CruiseVA]

55 minutes ago, LACruiser88 said:

I think this puts more pressure on Princess to declare a vaccination mandate for their crew and passengers.  Come on Princess get with it!!!

If they do, under current executive orders for the Gov of Florida they will not be able to operate. 

 

[K.T.B.]

38 minutes ago, CruiseVA said:

If they do, under current executive orders for the Gov of Florida they will not be able to operate. 

 

 

Ports are operated by the US government, not the state.  Plus the President can override what the governor says.

[mtnlvr53]

I follow an immunology specialist who speaks about the vaccine effectiveness in very "real life"  "real people" terms. One of the studies showed that pfizer was effect at 89% effective against the British version and 75% against the South African variant. Effectiveness against severe disease and hospitalization was 97%. Since pfizer and Moderna are similar technology, the assumption is that Moderna will have similar results.  So the CDC, despite people's feeling of them being over cautious, really is basing their guidelines on real-time updates.  It is excellent news and means that herd immunity is not going to be necessary for those of us that are vaccinated.

Edited May 14, 2021 by mtnlvr53

[Redwing55]

1 hour ago, mtnlvr53 said:

I follow an immunology specialist who speaks about the vaccine effectiveness in very "real life"  "real people" terms. One of the studies showed that pfizer was effect at 89% effective against the British version and 75% against the South African variant. Effectiveness against severe disease and hospitalization was 97%. Since pfizer and Moderna are similar technology, the assumption is that Moderna will have similar results.  So the CDC, despite people's feeling of them being over cautious, really is basing their guidelines on real-time updates.  It is excellent news and means that herd immunity is not going to be necessary for those of us that are vaccinated.

That MAY be the case, but there was other evidence months ago. This update from the CDC isn't about how well the vaccine works but rather if the virus spreads from those immunized.

 

The issue about masks today isn't so much about how effective the vaccine is, it was that vaccinated people MIGHT to be spreading the virus. The study referenced above was about how effective the vaccine is.  That's pretty old news.... this stuff does the job.  Still, the CDC wanted vaccinated people to be treated about the same as unvaccinated.  Then they suggested it's ok if you're only around other vaccinated people.  Now they are saying it's ok unless you're in a crowd.  Huh?  One is vaccinated.  Why is a mask or social distance STILL SOMETIMES needed?  And the studies that have come out recently didn't seem to show if vaccinated people can infect others or not.   Again, the CDC took the most risk averse route and assumes one can still be contagious.  They should have been looking at this concurrently with the vaccine study.  It's not the vaccine producers to show this... they just need to show that it stops the impacts and they did so.  

[Redwing55]

5 hours ago, AZjohn said:

This is a quote from Dr. Walensky about previous studies they used to make their decision (I'm guessing peer review?):

 

Calling it an "exciting and powerful moment," Walensky said the science supports the updated CDC guidance that "anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities -- large or small -- without wearing a mask or physical distancing."

She cited three studies -- one from Israel and two from the United States -- that show vaccines work.

 

I saw only one of the studies.. I think... it's more about how effective the vaccine is and NOT about whether a vaccinated person can infect someone else.

[K.T.B.]

Just dropping this here as an FYI:

[LACruiser88]

4 hours ago, CruiseVA said:

If they do, under current executive orders for the Gov of Florida they will not be able to operate. 

 

If that is truly the case, then they need to conduct their business outside the state of Florida!  They can surely start cruising out of California....

[caribill]

9 hours ago, AZjohn said:

This is a quote from Dr. Walensky about previous studies they used to make their decision (I'm guessing peer review?):

 

Calling it an "exciting and powerful moment," Walensky said the science supports the updated CDC guidance that "anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities -- large or small -- without wearing a mask or physical distancing."

She cited three studies -- one from Israel and two from the United States -- that show vaccines work.

 

 

And those two words will be ignored by many who are not vaccinated, especially the anti-vaxxers and the vaccine hesitant.

 

With only about 35% of Americans fully vaccinated, I expect to see at least 75% of people without masks in indoor settings.

 

I think the CDC made this move for political purposes. They should have made the advice more practical. For example, they could have said fully vaccinated people who work indoors can work without the masks. Employers can help enforce that.

 

Maybe when 70% or more have been fully vaccinated would have been a better time to give the advice they did Thursday.

[Syracusefan44]

11 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Ports are operated by the US government, not the state.  Plus the President can override what the governor says.

Some more details on the situation in Florida with DeSantis.

 

The power of federal authorities to regulate travel in international waters dates to the founding of the republic, and indeed the origins of public health. States enforced quarantines on arriving vessels from the earliest days of the colonies, and federal laws governing quarantine of vessels date to 1796. Federal power to prevent the introduction and spread of contagious diseases to the country through travel by sea is undisputed.

 

This means that, as they apply to sea and air travel, both the vaccination passport ban and rule against mask-wearing are effectively preempted by federal rules that DeSantis can’t countermand.

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/552941-de-santiss-cruise-line-battle-shows-contempt-for-public-health-federalism

Edited May 14, 2021 by Syracusefan44

[K.T.B.]

8 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

If that is truly the case, then they need to conduct their business outside the state of Florida!  They can surely start cruising out of California....

 

And Mobile, and Galveston, and New Orleans....

[PMGS247]

13 hours ago, CruiseVA said:

If they do, under current executive orders for the Gov of Florida they will not be able to operate. 

 

 

I think the cruise industry will find a way around the FL executive orders and I think the Gov of Florida will be quietly happy when they do.  He will publicly oppose it for political purposes but behind closed doors be happy to be overruled and get back all the jobs and revenue from cruising.

 

When push comes to shove the almighty dollar will win out, and holding cruise lines to the current executive orders vs allowing vaccine validation will result in a fraction of cruises operating, if at all.  This is too costly to too many people...I think something will give.

[westcoaster]

16 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

There hasn't been ANY new data recently, yet the CDC just came out with this today.  The fact that not much has changed shows how arbitrary the CDC is with setting guidelines and restrictions.

I'm sure the CDC also looks at indicators such as the level of transmission in the community (which has been going down) and the % of the population that is vaccinated, which is increasing.  The data on the effectiveness of vaccines may not have changed significantly, but those other factors make it more supportable to announce this change in guidance now than would have been the case a month ago.

[Ride-The-Waves]

westcoaster:  Many just don't understand that this is an evolving challenge for the medical profession and thus for those government officials charged with keep people safe and healthy.  We have come a long way since the "Black Death."  We no, longer use leeches to drain blood from those who are ill.  As you have well stated, many factors are used before recommendations for health and safety directives are promulgated.  Thankfully, the current CDC director is a well respected physician, scientist and administrator, and not a political hack.

[PrincessLuver]

6 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

westcoaster:  Many just don't understand that this is an evolving challenge for the medical profession and thus for those government officials charged with keep people safe and healthy.  We have come a long way since the "Black Death."  We no, longer use leeches to drain blood from those who are ill.  As you have well stated, many factors are used before recommendations for health and safety directives are promulgated.  Thankfully, the current CDC director is a well respected physician, scientist and administrator, and not a political hack.

 

Well stated......the problem truly has not really been the Covid - 19 virus or the CDC but the Irrational Conspiracy Theory Viruses.......

[CI66774]

1 hour ago, PMGS247 said:

 

I think the cruise industry will find a way around the FL executive orders and I think the Gov of Florida will be quietly happy when they do.  He will publicly oppose it for political purposes but behind closed doors be happy to be overruled and get back all the jobs and revenue from cruising.

 

When push comes to shove the almighty dollar will win out, and holding cruise lines to the current executive orders vs allowing vaccine validation will result in a fraction of cruises operating, if at all.  This is too costly to too many people...I think something will give.

Don’t agree with your “way around” speculation. I speculate the parties will find a solution that doesn’t violate FL law (legislature passed the law re: passports) but adheres to reasonable CDC suggestions (e.g. negative COVID tests, etc.).