Wine - Seabourn & Silversea vs Regent

[RetiredandTravel]

Does anyone have fairly recent wine lists (complimentary & vintage) for Seabourn & Silversea.    Regents complimentary wines were ok, in the $8-$14 range at a store.  I thought they could have been a notch better.  The vintage list was very good & reasonable.

 

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[brittany12]

The "luxury lines" all play the same game with the complementary selection: promise fine wines and always underdeliver. Decent is about the set you cans inmost instances. I find the for purchase lists always overpriced. They take huge markups.

[Mr Luxury]

The included wine on all of these lines is reasonable but nothing special.

You will probably find something that suits you but buying from the revenue wine list will give you much better wines and generally they are not too pricey.

 

[RetiredandTravel]

I wouldn't want to be on a longer cruise with the complimentary wines they had on Regent.   Its interesting they have complimentary wines they don't advertise that are better.  We specifically asked for the White French Burgundy which was pretty decent.

 

Someone sent me the premium wine list for Oceania , its $60/day each for the premium alcohol package,  and it was quite good.  Wines in the high teen's at a store, not bad at all.

 

My sense is the complimentary wine lists have deteriorated considerably over the years on the luxury lines.   Regents certainly did over 3 years.  We like our wine and wish they would just charge more but many people don't care.  You're in a position do I want the "free" $12 wines our pay $80, nothing in between.

 

 

 

 

[rkacruiser]

To add MSC's Yacht Club's regular wine selections to the discussion, I found the wines offered to meet my expectations other than they--like some other cruise lines--failed to offer on either the "regular or the premium" list Villa Maria which is my favorite New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.  I found no reason to order any wine from their premium list.  Of course, my palate may differ from yours.  😀

[markham]

I have always found a few good wines from the included list on Seabourn and Silversea. And as Mr Luxury suggests, there are very good wines at even better prices on the Seabourn "extra" list given the Club discounts and benefits from OBC you may have.

 

I am not sure that any wine on MSC would taste as good to me as the same wine on a beautiful Seabourn ship or one of my favored Muse, Moon, Dawn series of ships of Silversea. It's the size, atmosphere, facilities that help tip the scale, to say nothing of that I perceive from other happy guests.

 

Club within a ship within a special deck on a floating apartment block with queues and gotcha photographers in all ports- type barges won't deliver on the luxury feeling. That will extend to wine tastings. Taste wines in a maker's cellar and at a supermarket: same issue.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[RetiredandTravel]

On 9/8/2018 at 12:07 PM, envirochick said:

Hello all,

 

This board has been so helpful to me in planning my first Seabourn cruise. There were a few wine lists floating around, yet I took Seabourn veteran’s advice and asked for a current list at the square. Before the evening was over it was in our suite. Then 2 days later I received an update. This is from Sojourn Alaska, so ymmv. Thanks again for all the help.

 

 

I found a list.  The Seabourn list is much more interesting and imaginative vs the Regent list, especially the whites.  This would be acceptable for a long haul cruise.

 

I'd still like to see a higher quality of wines served at dinner either included in the price or for a surcharge.  My argument isn't for $80-$200 wines but $20-$30. It doesn't fit the business model but maybe an upscale (not the vintage list) option at dinner say a $25 surcharge or an intermediate wine list.  If you are drinking your own bottle you aren't drinking the Seabourn house wines (hopefully 🤨).  The intermediate list would include $20-$30 wines at a reasonable price.  I guess that would increase the burden on the wine people but would be worth it.

 

Just increasing the price and serving better wines at dinner would be the best option but I'm not sure how many people would agree with that.

 

 

 

 

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

I'd still like to see a higher quality of wines served at dinner either included in the price or for a surcharge.  My argument isn't for $80-$200 wines but $20-$30. It doesn't fit the business model but maybe an upscale (not the vintage list) option at dinner say a $25 surcharge or an intermediate wine list.  If you are drinking your own bottle you aren't drinking the Seabourn house wines (hopefully 🤨).  The intermediate list would include $20-$30 wines at a reasonable price.  I guess that would increase the burden on the wine people but would be worth it.

 

Just increasing the price and serving better wines at dinner would be the best option but I'm not sure how many people would agree with that.

 

 

I like your suggestions.  

 

13 hours ago, markham said:

I am not sure that any wine on MSC would taste as good to me as the same wine on a beautiful Seabourn ship or one of my favored Muse, Moon, Dawn series of ships of Silversea. It's the size, atmosphere, facilities that help tip the scale, to say nothing of that I perceive from other happy guests.

 

I understand your thinking.  Somehow, the wine, the cuisine always is better on a ship that we really prefer.  

 

13 hours ago, markham said:

Club within a ship within a special deck on a floating apartment block with queues and gotcha photographers in all ports- type barges won't deliver on the luxury feeling. That will extend to wine tastings. Taste wines in a maker's cellar and at a supermarket: same issue.

 

You may believe it or not, but as a YC guest, the only queues that I experienced was waiting for an elevator back to YC when the Main Theater show was over.  If I wanted to patronize a lounge outside of YC, I was always able to find a seat at a table and/or bar.  No wine tastings were offered on my MSC Meraviglia cruise, so I can't comment about that.  The most enjoyable wine tasting that I have experienced during a cruise was aboard Celebrity Eclipse at their Riedel Wine Tasting.  

 

Large vessels can offer quality programs and quality experiences.  

[B-HQC]

As a wine enthusiast and collector,  I find Seabourn's wine program (paid and complimentary) to be the best amongst the luxury lines. Yes, it's true that I find only 1-2 of the complimentary wines to be enjoyable (ex. La Scolca Gavi, German/Austrian dry Rieslings); the California Pinot Noir and Chardonnay selections to be downright dreadful and are ~$5 (distributor cost) wines.

 

However, overall the wine list prices are not high at all, with the exception of some US wines. They are above distributor prices but most often slightly below retail and significantly below restaurant prices. You can get a decent Champagne Blancs de Blancs, Puligny Montrachet, or Gevrey Chambertin in the $100 range.

 

At the end of the day, Seabourn is generous with OBCs and I can order a bottle of wine every night and have a 90 minute massage once a week and leave with a zero balance, so I'm happy.

[marazul]

On the truly dreadful side you can add the Beringer white zinfandel. The côtes de Provence rosé is quite good. 

[rl787]

This is a constant issue between passengers as we all have different tastes. Mrs RL and I tend to enjoy New World wines, we normally find we are lucky and there is stock of the New Zealand Oyster Bay Sauvignon Blanc which we find acceptable as a White, sometimes however they have the Wingspan SB which we are not as keen on. Red's that we enjoy seem to be a little more difficult and normally, if the evening menu is very appealing to us I tend to go for something on the paid for list that we know and enjoy. On our last couple of voyages the list included Elderton Shiraz at about $35 which is a wine we both appreciate and quite frankly at this price isn't a deal breaker compared to the total price of the cruise. If we are on a 2-3 week voyage we are quite happy to spend a little extra on a wine we enjoy with dinner rather than drink something we would not drink at home. 

[RetiredandTravel]

I'm guessing the Seabourn clients are similar to Regents and generally enjoy their wine.  Quite often we also purchase from the vintage list.  On our first Regent cruise they had one of favorite whites a Antinori Cervaro for $50, thats cheaper than many wine stores.  They also had a few Red Brugundies well priced at 75-90 and a Caymus cab for $90.  The last night we had exactly $200 OBC left and had a Phelps Insignia Cab, great fun.

 

The Seabourn list above has several decent whites (the Gavi, Greco di Tufo & Albarino, I'm not a Riesling person).   Generally I wont have a red during the day and I don't recall seeing many other passengers having reds before cocktail hour.  

 

What I would like to see is these 'Luxury" cruise providers up the quality of the wines available for dinner.  That would probably cost $10-15 extra per bottle served at dinner and greatly improve the experience..   Replace the pedestrian $10 (wine store cost) LAN Rioja & Banfi Chianti with a $20-$25  Rioja, Chiantis or Rosso di Montalcino.  There are also many fantastic Red Bordeaux's , White Burgundies US Reds & Whites etc etc in the $20-30 range.

 

I would pay extra for this.  I just don't think it's acceptable that the only way to get a decent Red wine at dinner is to go to the vintage list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, marazul said:

dreadful side you can add the Beringer white zinfandel.

 

Some don't know any better.  It's a "pretty wine"; therefore it's good.  😀

 

2 hours ago, rl787 said:

the New Zealand Oyster Bay Sauvignon Blanc

 

Glad to know this because I think that Oyster Bay is better than Matua which many beverage managers order.  Oyster Bay is a good choice if Villa Maria is unavailable.

 

2 hours ago, rl787 said:

If we are on a 2-3 week voyage we are quite happy to spend a little extra on a wine we enjoy with dinner rather than drink something we would not drink at home.

 

Agree!  My every day wine is one that I have come to enjoy and comfortably fits into my budget without making me think:  why are you spending that amount of money for a wine that you will drink as an "everyday type" of wine?  

 

58 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

Generally I wont have a red during the day and I don't recall seeing many other passengers having reds before cocktail hour.  

 

My observations and thinking as well.

 

58 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

I just don't think it's acceptable that the only way to get a decent Red wine at dinner is to go to the vintage list.

 

I would add a "decent White wine" to your thought as well.  

[brittany12]

It's been a few years for me since our last Seabourn cruise but I never recall below retail or restaurant prices on the premium wine list. What I recall was a rather ordinary Sancerre at or over $100. It was the same mostly 3X markup that most restaurants utilize. A Puligny Montrachet at $100 in the DR? I'll take a case. There are literally thousands of very good wines that come out of France, Italy and Spain and even US, that are very good at about the $20-$30 retail price point. Loire Valley itself as Justine region is crawling with many hundreds of these. Decent and enjoyable if not the great ones we are used to in our homes. If Costco can do it, so can Seabourn, Silversea or Regent through their  and their parents' huge buying power. No, the premium list is a substantial money maker for the cruise line industry. Advertising "fine wines" on the complimentary list as they all do should mean something other than plonk. Complimentary selections should be a lot better and the prices on the premium list a great deal lower.

[cruiseej]

57 minutes ago, brittany12 said:

The premium list is a substantial money maker for the cruise line industry... Complimentary selections should be a lot better and the prices on the premium list a great deal lower.

 

Well, as you note, to offer better complementary selections and sell premium wines for less, that would cost the cruise line a lot of money.

 

They could make that up by building it into the base cost of the cruise, but that seems unlikely for two reasons. (1) Those who drink little wine, or none at all, wouldn't' be happy paying for other passengers' improved wine  selections. (2) The cruise line that made such a change might have a hard time explaining their higher cost to potential passengers. "Yes, we cost several hundred dollars more per week that our competitors, but we have better quality of included wine and cheaper prices for premium wines." That's not something consumers can readily compare when deciding on Seabourn versus Silversea versus Regent versus Crystal, or even some of the other premium cruise lines. Their cruises will just look more expensive. Regent pulled this off when they raised their prices and made excursions included, but that was much more tangible and easier to compare.

 

I'd love to see them replace the $10-$15 (wholesale cost) included wines with $20-$25 included wines, as it would make a significant quality difference, but I'm not sure I see any of the luxury cruise lines building such an upgrade into their base prices nor offering a $10/person/day add-on drink package for modestly upgraded wines. 

[jenidallas]

I think it’s important to also remember that a lot of Seabourn Club members use one of their benefit choices for the wine discount.  Also OBC gets used by many for wine purchases - so the discounted values are likely baked into the prices.  
 

I’m going to guess that a bean counter somewhere at corporate has tracked statistics on which wines get purchased by which passenger groups and the list prices have those the discounts considered.  Anyone who is thinking that Carnival Corporation doesn’t have the metrics down to that level is not thinking the pricing strategy through.

 

The TK wine list has some real gems with more reasonable markups.  A secret some don’t know is that you can order a bottle off the TK list pre-dinner and have it served elsewhere.  And I know there are a lot of Retreat haters, but you get a complimentary bottle of Krug as well as Krug by the glass.  Just like the bottle of champagne in your suite, there is no requirement to open/drink that before you move on to by the glass.  When we enjoyed the Retreat, our Krug always got saved for another evening.

 

 

[bohaiboy]

16 hours ago, jenidallas said:

I think it’s important to also remember that a lot of Seabourn Club members use one of their benefit choices for the wine discount.  Also OBC gets used by many for wine purchases - so the discounted values are likely baked into the prices.  
 

I’m going to guess that a bean counter somewhere at corporate has tracked statistics on which wines get purchased by which passenger groups and the list prices have those the discounts considered.  Anyone who is thinking that Carnival Corporation doesn’t have the metrics down to that level is not thinking the pricing strategy through.

 

The TK wine list has some real gems with more reasonable markups.  A secret some don’t know is that you can order a bottle off the TK list pre-dinner and have it served elsewhere.  And I know there are a lot of Retreat haters, but you get a complimentary bottle of Krug as well as Krug by the glass.  Just like the bottle of champagne in your suite, there is no requirement to open/drink that before you move on to by the glass.  When we enjoyed the Retreat, our Krug always got saved for another evening.

 

 

News to SB, what is TK and the Retreat?  Will be on the Quest for a 24 day cruise in Feb.

 

[RetiredandTravel]

On 5/27/2021 at 2:06 PM, brittany12 said:

It's been a few years for me since our last Seabourn cruise but I never recall below retail or restaurant prices on the premium wine list. What I recall was a rather ordinary Sancerre at or over $100. It was the same mostly 3X markup that most restaurants utilize. A Puligny Montrachet at $100 in the DR? I'll take a case. There are literally thousands of very good wines that come out of France, Italy and Spain and even US, that are very good at about the $20-$30 retail price point. Loire Valley itself as Justine region is crawling with many hundreds of these. Decent and enjoyable if not the great ones we are used to in our homes. If Costco can do it, so can Seabourn, Silversea or Regent through their  and their parents' huge buying power. No, the premium list is a substantial money maker for the cruise line industry. Advertising "fine wines" on the complimentary list as they all do should mean something other than plonk. Complimentary selections should be a lot better and the prices on the premium list a great deal lower.

 

 

Great points.  We aren't wine snobs but like good wines.  Our weekday wines are always below $15 and usually $12.  Costco has excellent wines from diverse regions (Portugal, Spain, Bordeaux, South America,  Australia, etc) that are far better than the Seabourn list, many below $10.  With a few exceptions the Seabourn complimentary wines can be bought in my supermarket.  

 

"Cruiseej" I understand your points.  I am just talking about dinner wines and think the luxury lines should improve them.  If we have to pay extra that's fine.  IMO this is an example of luxury lines being bought out and their wine selection (like some other services) migrating towards mass market quality.  Its my understanding that the quality of complimentary wines have deteriorated considerably over the last 5-10 years.  Fight the bean counters!!!  😁

[cruiseej]

3 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

I am just talking about dinner wines and think the luxury lines should improve them.  If we have to pay extra that's fine.  IMO this is an example of luxury lines being bought out and their wine selection (like some other services) migrating towards mass market quality.  Its my understanding that the quality of complimentary wines have deteriorated considerably over the last 5-10 years.  Fight the bean counters!!!  😁

 

I agree with you. I'd like step or two better for the complimentary wines, and if that meant they added $15/person/day to our cruise price -- either built in, or offered as an upgraded wine package -- I'd be all in. I was just explaining why I don't think either option is likely, and @jenidallas added some good points.

 

Fight the bean counters? If you find out how to do that, count me in on the fight! 😉 

[jenidallas]

7 hours ago, bohaiboy said:

News to SB, what is TK and the Retreat?  Will be on the Quest for a 24 day cruise in Feb.

 

TK is the Thomas Keller Grill... they have a separate wine list with interesting selections and some good values particularly on US wines.  On the larger ships (Ovation/Encore) the TK Grill has a bar area where one can enjoy pre-/post-dinner cocktails even if not dining in the restaurant that night. On the smaller ships, the bar is very limited so one could order a bottle there bit there but there isn’t room to enjoy it.

 

The Retreat is the pay-per-use private cabana deck on the large ships.  It’s not well-utilized on many sailings but one of the features is a separate includes premium wine list that includes unlimited Krug and one unopened bottle per cabana. On disembarkation day they also do an open preview with Krug on pour for those who come take the tour and listen to to pitch to reserve a day (or the entire cruise).  We used it a couple of times on Ovation as we were gifted a day for our honeymoon and then used extra OBC credit to enjoy another day with friends, but I doubt we’d do it again as the premium wine was the primary value proposition from our perspective.

 

 

[markham]

The Retreat is a concept imported from mass market cruise lines and hotels where VIPs can hide away from hoi polloi. That's the other 588 passengers on this 606 passenger ship. Users are cloistered in a circle on the top deck with cabanas facing a jacuzzi. In them they can watch TV. There is drinks and sandwich service. And no one from the lower classes ie non-users on the day is allowed even to walk past the exterior of the Retreat enclosure from the deck below across and to the open sun lounge area at the top and front of the ship! This makes the Retreat "exclusive". You get the drift.

 

I don't know what daily usage of the Retreat costs these days but it is evidently worth the money for the "elite". Of course, it has been years since the original 200 person Seabourn "small ships' were sailing and the brand was established. A Retreat concept would have been laughable then, as would an uncharge for it. Retreat from what, after all? 

 

I have always thought the Retreat was a waste of valuable deck space on a ship that could always use more of it for recreation for everyone, as well as a challenge to the original and simple all inclusive luxury and egalitarian concept of Seabourn. Apparently purveyors of large hotels convinced Seabourn Management a few years ago when the Encore class was being designed it could make more money, appeal to a new, different market segment, and/or embellish the hotel concept to another level. Imagine that.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[jenidallas]

9 hours ago, markham said:

I have always thought the Retreat was a waste of valuable deck space on a ship that could always use more of it for recreation for everyone, as well as a challenge to the original and simple all inclusive luxury and egalitarian concept of Seabourn.

We are in agreement on this. I think with the emphasis on more social distancing that came from the pandemic, Seabourn would be wise to remove the cabanas and convert this to a public use space to allow for more sun loungers.  That in turn could allow for more patio tables on the pool deck as those seem to always be in high demand and it could also expand access for Earth & Ocean.

[markham]

Good idea! Everyone wants more space outdoors and that includes Earth and Ocean offering more seating around the pool, as you say. On that note I wonder what Ovation will do with that large deck area rear of the TK Grill restaurant. An extension of the Colonnade from the deck above? That would be smart.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

 

[rkacruiser]

On 5/27/2021 at 9:30 PM, jenidallas said:

The TK wine list has some real gems with more reasonable markups.  A secret some don’t know is that you can order a bottle off the TK list pre-dinner and have it served elsewhere.

 

I would appreciate a bit of clarity with this post.  On other cruises other than Seabourn, if I order a bottle of wine and don't finish it, that bottle will "follow me and be served wherever I am" when I ask for it.  Would that be an unusual situation on Seabourn?  

[rl787]

The Retreat....I do think "more space" for us passengers would be a good idea but hey, wait a minute........I bet some bright young genius will suggest something like........."Market research says our customers want more large suites, let's just get rid of the Retreat and find a way to have a couple of extra up scale large suits in that area and that way we can please more customers and get more revenue" ...........oh I do love market research..........lets be honest, if the Retreat changes this is more likely if it can be reconfigured in some way to work.