Hoping Silversea isn’t included

[OlsSalt]

5 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

Thanks for responding and for the link. I note the following from the Exec Summary:

‘It is anticipated that antiviral therapies would have the greatest effect early in the course of the disease’

‘No therapy has been proven to be beneficial in outpatients with mild to moderate COVID-19 etc...’

 

Until we have something cheap that works in a real world setting this is no more than wishful thinking for a cruise ship environment.

You could put the current "vaccines" into that same thinking - not a guarantee thing, nor cheap either.

 

Good to cover all bases, and new data is still emerging for other therapeutics. CDC lags a bit,  but NIH Pub Med search engine is a good resource to keep exploring what is happening on this front.

 

There appears to be some think between not granting emergency use authorization if there are any known and available therapeutics so there may have been an artificial ban on this dimension of disease control. Prevention- therapeutics - vaccinations -an interdependent three legged stool.  Let's hope for success in all three parts of this "pandemic response" equation.

 

Quarantine remains a good response for those with mild to moderate symptoms, just like noro or any other transmissible infection. Passengers can expect this to be no different. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by OlsSalt

[Silver Spectre]

U.K. government pays $3 per shot of the Astra Zeneca vaccine, that’s pretty cheap in most countries. It’s generally forgotten that Astra is producing it at cost unlike most other Big Pharma companies.

[1985rz1]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:45 PM, cece50 said:

I always thought it was interesting in all our travels to date, that we only needed our yellow fever vaccine proof in one country (Tanzania) which shares a border with Kenya, which did not require one.  I am going to do a bit of research on this vaccination since ours expires this year.  I heard that the WHO has decided that that vaccine is now good for life.  A little off  topic but interesting, nonetheless.

Yes, Yellow Fever vaccinations are now considered good for life, even ones gotten years ago, regardless of the original expiration date on the Yellow Fever card.  So hold on to it.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/yellowfever/vaccine/index.html

Edited June 8, 2021 by 1985rz1

[drron29]

And this is why I won't get on a cruise ship with unvaccinated passengers.

Covid, Malta denies entry to Msc Seaside - Malta News Agency

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, drron29 said:

And this is why I won't get on a cruise ship with unvaccinated passengers.

Covid, Malta denies entry to Msc Seaside - Malta News Agency

 

Exactly right. The issue is not so much being fearful of getting Covid when your vaccinated from unvaccinated passengers. The issue is having unvaccinated passengers test positive and ports refuse you entry. So now MSC have had to deal with both Scotland and Malta refusing access because of positive unvaccinated passengers. 

[Lois R]

Hi folks.......I was just reading about the Millennium cruise from a person who was posting "live".

They are back in St Martin today.  **An update on the 2 passengers who tested positive.  They were moved to a cabin on deck 2 and a plane was chartered by Celebrity to bring them back to the US.

 

Here is a quote from the post as well....... in the end he felt like the cruise line did a very good job.

 

"There were about 20 other people who were placed on precautionary quarantine for about 12 hours pending the results of the PCR test. Celebrity gave those people, specialty dinners, free movies and streaming internet. They remained in their cabins. The contact tracing was effective and ranged from people who took shore excursions with the two positive guests, down to people who sat immediately next to them at the bar and had physical contact".

 

His final thoughts were, with a total of about 1000---guests and crew total, he thought they did a good job. 

[Arlopop]

47 minutes ago, Lois R said:

Hi folks.......I was just reading about the Millennium cruise from a person who was posting "live".

They are back in St Martin today.  **An update on the 2 passengers who tested positive.  They were moved to a cabin on deck 2 and a plane was chartered by Celebrity to bring them back to the US.

 

Here is a quote from the post as well....... in the end he felt like the cruise line did a very good job.

 

"There were about 20 other people who were placed on precautionary quarantine for about 12 hours pending the results of the PCR test. Celebrity gave those people, specialty dinners, free movies and streaming internet. They remained in their cabins. The contact tracing was effective and ranged from people who took shore excursions with the two positive guests, down to people who sat immediately next to them at the bar and had physical contact".

 

His final thoughts were, with a total of about 1000---guests and crew total, he thought they did a good job. 

That’s good news.  Being a general skeptic regarding these things, the whole world is watching this so I’m going to assume much of this is as much PR as genuine protocol. That said, I’m pleased to see the ideal reaction to the circumstance has been instituted.

[Silver Spectre]

Unless the cruise lines stick to 100% vaccinated and not the ‘fully vaccinated, i.e 95% only’ this will continue to happen. And I understand that being fully vaccinated doesn’t mean you cannot catch the virus, and spread it. I’m hoping that SS will continue to insist on 100%.

[drron29]

7 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

Unless the cruise lines stick to 100% vaccinated and not the ‘fully vaccinated, i.e 95% only’ this will continue to happen. And I understand that being fully vaccinated doesn’t mean you cannot catch the virus, and spread it. I’m hoping that SS will continue to insist on 100%.

But even if everyone is fully vaccinated there will still be some people who will get Covid.The majority though will have less severe cases and much less likely to pass it on.

But the age cohort of SS means occasionally there will be a severe case.

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases Increased — Coronavirus Today

[cruiseej]

I think the part we haven't fully come to grips with in terms of cruising -- in part because there isn't enough data yet -- is how many fully vaccinated people will test positive for Covid. For everyone who is currently vaccinated and going about their daily lives, almost no one is being tested. But in a cruise environment, everyone will be tested, in some cases multiple times. So my guess is that the testing will find some people who have some Covid virus in them without knowing it or having any symptoms. That means the vaccine is doing exactly what it's supposed to -- keeping people from being sick -- but it doesn't always completely prevent it from entering people's bodies.

 

I think positive Covid cases on cruises will be more prevalent than many of us expect, simply because of the high level of testing. And unfortunately for those cruisers who test positive, there will be no measured response based on the amount of virus detected; it's a simple binary "if you've got it at all, you must be isolated" response.

Edited June 13, 2021 by cruiseej

[FauxNom]

One article/interview I found really helpful to understanding the likelihood that aggressive testing of fully vaxxed people will reveal lots of positive COVID cases, but that they are fairly likely to be asymptomatic and not contagious. The PCR test picks up tiny amounts of the virus (I know this from experience: way back at the beginning, my husband was asymptomatic but tested positive for 7 weeks!)  Here's a brief excerpt:

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/what-really-happened-with-that-weird-yankees-covid-outbreak.html

How can we distinguish between an infection we don’t have to worry about and one that could cause sickness and be transmitted?
The simple answer is that we can look at viral loads. Now that the vaccines are being rolled out, the story is going to come out in a much more robust fashion. But it’s the same story that I’ve been telling this entire pandemic: Extraordinarily low viral loads should not, right off the bat, be considered infectious. Instead, we’ve taken the opposite approach: If you’re positive on a PCR test, you’re considered infectious, and you should isolate, no questions asked, no nuance of what that PCR result means.

But a lot of people aren’t actually infectious when they’re PCR positive — it’s just a little bit of virus replicating but not enough to necessarily transmit and certainly not enough to warrant a ten-day isolation anymore. You can test positive on a PCR machine for up to four or five weeks after you’ve stopped being infectious, which can be a period as short as just three days. Sussing this out is where antigen tests come in.

These are the rapid tests we’ve discussed before.
They will only really turn positive when you’re truly positive and infectious.

[cruiseej]

@FauxNom Yes, I had read this article, and I think it's a very good explainer. Unfortunately, the measure the author advocates -- to focus on the amount of viral load rather than a binary infected or not determination is not the way a lot of testing has been set up, and is not the way public health officials have communicated about the disease. And country's entry testing, or a cruise line's, is likely to jump on the slightest indication of a positive test and take that person out of circulation, whether it's really warranted or not. So I do think some people will miss their travel and their cruises in the months ahead because of a positive test when the totality of the situation might be that they'd be quite safe to travel. 

[cece50]

3 hours ago, FauxNom said:

One article/interview I found really helpful to understanding the likelihood that aggressive testing of fully vaxxed people will reveal lots of positive COVID cases, but that they are fairly likely to be asymptomatic and not contagious. The PCR test picks up tiny amounts of the virus (I know this from experience: way back at the beginning, my husband was asymptomatic but tested positive for 7 weeks!)  Here's a brief excerpt:

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/what-really-happened-with-that-weird-yankees-covid-outbreak.html

How can we distinguish between an infection we don’t have to worry about and one that could cause sickness and be transmitted?
The simple answer is that we can look at viral loads. Now that the vaccines are being rolled out, the story is going to come out in a much more robust fashion. But it’s the same story that I’ve been telling this entire pandemic: Extraordinarily low viral loads should not, right off the bat, be considered infectious. Instead, we’ve taken the opposite approach: If you’re positive on a PCR test, you’re considered infectious, and you should isolate, no questions asked, no nuance of what that PCR result means.

But a lot of people aren’t actually infectious when they’re PCR positive — it’s just a little bit of virus replicating but not enough to necessarily transmit and certainly not enough to warrant a ten-day isolation anymore. You can test positive on a PCR machine for up to four or five weeks after you’ve stopped being infectious, which can be a period as short as just three days. Sussing this out is where antigen tests come in.

These are the rapid tests we’ve discussed before.
They will only really turn positive when you’re truly positive and infectious.

That was an interesting article explaining  the viral loads and transmission.  It might explain why my daughter & son in law never tested positive for Covid despite their 3 small children  (who they closely cared for) presented with mild fevers for  just a few hours, but tested positive for Covid. We have been scratching our heads every since. The children were exposed through a teachers aide. 

[FauxNom]

3 hours ago, cruiseej said:

 And country's entry testing, or a cruise line's, is likely to jump on the slightest indication of a positive test and take that person out of circulation, whether it's really warranted or not. So I do think some people will miss their travel and their cruises in the months ahead because of a positive test when the totality of the situation might be that they'd be quite safe to travel. 

Exactly! It's naturally going to cause reactions that might, in hindsight, be seen as over-reactions. I'm hoping things calm down a year from now when I have a cruise booked. Meanwhile, I guess the lesson is to opt (when possibly) for the antigen test instead of the PCR test if you are vaccinated and trying to avoid hair-trigger sensitivity.

 

1 hour ago, cece50 said:

We have been scratching our heads every since.

That's a really puzzling situation, isn't it?!

[cruiseej]

Here's another interesting story, an interview with a Harvard epidemiologist, who talks about how we're going about testing now entirely wrong. 

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/is-it-time-for-americans-to-drop-their-infatuation-with-the-pcr-test-thats-what-this-covid-19-testing-expert-thinks-11623670580

 

I'm just not sure I see any short-term path to changing the narrative about, and procedures for, testing. Yet another hard right turn from the experts would be once more act of sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt.