RC just announced vaxxed passengers on AoS must get rapid test at checkin

[BecciBoo]

💩

[harkinmr]

31 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

RC just changed the rules again for Bahamas cruises. Anyone July 19 and later needs a PCR test, at your own expense.

 

It makes zero sense to be making the rules more strict as time goes on

Actually it makes a lot of sense given the circumstances. With the cases found  this week on the MSC ship, and the two cases found yesterday in reportedly fully vaccinated passengers on Millennium, there will be testing applied to all pax now (vaccinated and unvaccinated).  Because antigen tests can be unreliable, looks like they’ll double up with PCR. Those are pricey. The cruise lines are learning as they go along and will adjust.  I personally expect RCI to change their mind next week and go fully vaccinated cruises at least for the next few months. This stuff is bad PR for the lines and they’re going to do what they need to do. 

[boatseller]

And by the way folks, this anti-data nonsense is exactly why Governor DeSantis is so resolute in the battle against the Center for Dumb Cruise Protocols. 

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Actually it makes a lot of sense given the circumstances. With the cases found  this week on the MSC ship, and the two cases found yesterday in reportedly fully vaccinated passengers on Millennium, there will be testing applied to all pax now (vaccinated and unvaccinated).  Because antigen tests can be unreliable, looks like they’ll double up with PCR. Those are pricey. The cruise lines are learning as they go along and will adjust.  I personally expect RCI to change their mind next week and go fully vaccinated cruises at least for the next few months. This stuff is bad PR for the lines and they’re going to do what they need to do. 

Those 2 passengers had to get a PCR test to enter St Maarten, so it's not like they weren't tested at all prior to cruising

[harkinmr]

Just now, smokeybandit said:

Those 2 passengers had to get a PCR test to enter St Maarten, so it's not like they weren't tested at all prior to cruising

Understood. But it is an attempt to deal with a challenging situation up front rather than struggling with it later on. AOS wasn’t going to be doing any pre-boarding testing on vaxxed passengers. 

[sept10dsm]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Those 2 passengers had to get a PCR test to enter St Maarten, so it's not like they weren't tested at all prior to cruising

An article I just read (since all over the news ) did say all passengers were tested precruise within 72 hr., all vaccinated and this test was to 72 hr before going home retest. 

[jrapps]

13 minutes ago, boatseller said:

And by the way folks, this anti-data nonsense is exactly why Governor DeSantis is so resolute in the battle against the Center for Dumb Cruise Protocols. 

Yes, so resolute that he got chastised by the Judge yesterday for breaking confidentiality of the mediation.

 

Don't be surprised if cruises continue from FL with non vaccinated people on board, if cruise lines make this passengers test Daily. How would that be for a deterrent!

[MrMarc]

53 minutes ago, boatseller said:

+1. At this rate, it will never end and cruising will never return because they're setting themselves up for inevitable failure. 

 

Denying people boarding because the vax is working is even dumber than the CDC...oh, I wonder what ex-bureaucrat they hired...

 

The only solution is to end all testing. 

That is the "if I don't see it it must not exist" thinking.  Most of us realize that this is not true when we are toddlers.  The virus will exist, spread and mutate whether you want it to are not.  Unfortunately the tests that are widely available are not quantitive, so they do not determine if the infection is such that it is contagious.  Based on that, a cruise line has decided to make the safer decision.  It has nothing to do with politics, big pharma  or any other perceived boogey man.  I would rather they err on the side of caution than stick their head in the sand.

Edited June 11, 2021 by MrMarc
spelling

[boatseller]

9 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Yes, so resolute that he got chastised by the Judge yesterday for breaking confidentiality of the mediation.

 

Don't be surprised if cruises continue from FL with non vaccinated people on board, if cruise lines make this passengers test Daily. How would that be for a deterrent!

Oh please...the impass isn't some super super secret. 

 

Either way, this is just Royal.  Some cruise line is going to say enough!  If you're vax'd, we're not going to bother you with any thing. 

[boatseller]

4 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

That is the "if I don't see it it must not exist" thinking.  Most of us realize that this is not true when we are toddlers.  The virus will exist, spread and mutate whether you want it to are not.  Unfortunately the tests that are widely available are not quotative, so they do not determine if the infection is such that it is contagious.  Based on that, a cruise line has decided to make the safer decision.  It has nothing to do with politics, big pharma  or any other perceived boogey man.  I would rather they err on the side of caution than stick their head in the sand.

The side of caution is not sailing at all.  Nothing will stop the virus.  It time to end all this nonsense  

[smokeybandit]

11 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

That is the "if I don't see it it must not exist" thinking.  Most of us realize that this is not true when we are toddlers.  The virus will exist, spread and mutate whether you want it to are not.  Unfortunately the tests that are widely available are not quantitive, so they do not determine if the infection is such that it is contagious.  Based on that, a cruise line has decided to make the safer decision.  It has nothing to do with politics, big pharma  or any other perceived boogey man.  I would rather they err on the side of caution than stick their head in the sand.

The "stop all testing" approach worked just fine for Obama during Swine Flu

[MrMarc]

Just now, boatseller said:

The side of caution is not sailing at all.  Nothing will stop the virus.  It time to end all this nonsense  

Yes, that is the safest choice, they are taking the safest choice that involves actually sailing.  This is not nonsense, it's common sense.  Take reasonable precautions for now, and change them as the spread decreases. Not to mention that if a few cases show up on a couple of more ships, they are likely to be shut down again.  One of the main purposes of the CDC that no one has questioned is to stop contagious diseases from coming in over the boarder, like being brought back on a cruise ship.  And before you say it, a cruise ship is very different from an airplane.  You have multiple long term contacts with many more people than any airplane.

[bstel]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

RC just changed the rules again for Bahamas cruises. Anyone July 19 and later needs a PCR test, at your own expense.

 

It makes zero sense to be making the rules more strict as time goes on

I'm on the 6/19 AoS sailing and I am not sure which is better.  

1.  Do a PCR test within 3-5 days before leaving home.

2.  Do a Rapid Antigen test at checkin.

 

Option 1 if positive lets me stay home and avoid all the hassle.  I get to quarantine in my own house.

Option 2 if positive I am stuck in Bahamas and now at the whim of RCL and Bahama Gov't and relying on their Health "Visa" Insurance, and I can't fly home.

 

I am now more worried about having a false positive on the rapid antigen test than I am of contracting Covid on the ship.  I was originally on the fence about booking when they still had a pre-cruise test, and only booked when they dropped that requirement, but now it is back.  But that is a risk I took, I guess.

 

But at some point the larger issue is when do we transition from Covid being a death sentence to Covid being treated like norovirus on the ships.  Regardless of how many vaccinate, Covid is not going anywhere anytime soon.  For vaccinated people, most don't show any symptoms or the symptoms are very mild, like the flu, so we need to stop worrying about being hospitalized and dying.  If you choose not to vaccinate based on all the "risks" then that is on you.

Edited June 11, 2021 by bstel
typo

[MrMarc]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

The "stop all testing" approach worked just fine for Obama during Swine Flu

This not the same, and it doesn't matter who is president.  It is sad that we are able to determine someone's medical choices based on their political views.  In reality one has nothing to do with the other.

[MrMarc]

11 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Oh please...the impass isn't some super super secret. 

 

Either way, this is just Royal.  Some cruise line is going to say enough!  If you're vax'd, we're not going to bother you with any thing. 

Saying ANYTHING about what happens in a mediation is against their mediation agreement (which the parties must agree to), the law, and the attorney's ethical obligations.  The only one allowed to say anything is the Mediator, and they can only say that the case settled or declare an impasse.  The Mediator is the only one that can make that decision, so yes, this would be a big deal in any case.

[At Sea At Peace]

24 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Yes, so resolute that he got chastised by the Judge yesterday for breaking confidentiality of the mediation.

 

 

He was not chastised.  Per the Judge "I'm not faulting the Governor."

[bstel]

5 minutes ago, bstel said:

I'm on the 6/19 AoS sailing and I am not sure which is better.  

1.  Do a PCR test within 3-5 days before leaving home.

2.  Do a Rapid Antigen test at checkin.

 

Option 1 if positive lets me stay home and avoid all the hassle.  I get to quarantine in my own house.

Option 2 if positive I am stuck in Bahamas and now at the whim of RCL and Bahama Gov't and relying on their Health "Visa" Insurance, and I can't fly home.

 

I am now more worried about having a false positive on the rapid antigen test than I am of contracting Covid on the ship.  I was originally on the fence about booking when they still had a pre-cruise test, and only booked when they dropped that requirement, but now it is back.  But that is a risk I took, I guess.

 

well *****, this post didn't age well.  No sooner than posting I got an email for my 6/19 AoS sailing.  We now have to PCR test within 5 days of sailing and present at checkin.  No more rapid test.

[boatseller]

5 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Yes, that is the safest choice, they are taking the safest choice that involves actually sailing.  This is not nonsense, it's common sense.  Take reasonable precautions for now, and change them as the spread decreases. Not to mention that if a few cases show up on a couple of more ships, they are likely to be shut down again.  One of the main purposes of the CDC that no one has questioned is to stop contagious diseases from coming in over the boarder, like being brought back on a cruise ship.  And before you say it, a cruise ship is very different from an airplane.  You have multiple long term contacts with many more people than any airplane.

You're right, it's not nonsense.  It's destructive. 

 

The reaction has caused far more societal damage than the virus.  It time to end it all.

 

"stop contagious diseases from coming in over the boarder"

 

Yeah, that ship sailed a year and a half ago.  Preventing 2 asymptomatic vax'd persons from reentering the country is not just dumb, it's endangerment.   The best care in the world is in the US and they're being blocked from that.   Who ever made that decision should be in prison.

[MrMarc]

2 minutes ago, bstel said:

well *****, this post didn't age well.  No sooner than posting I got an email for my 6/19 AoS sailing.  We now have to PCR test within 5 days of sailing and present at checkin.  No more rapid test.

Wait a couple of hours, it may change again.  Remember a few days ago when Carnival was going to begin sailing out of Galveston in July?

[boatseller]

6 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Saying ANYTHING about what happens in a mediation is against their mediation agreement (which the parties must agree to), the law, and the attorney's ethical obligations.  The only one allowed to say anything is the Mediator, and they can only say that the case settled or declare an impasse.  The Mediator is the only one that can make that decision, so yes, this would be a big deal in any case.

Drama much?  An impass is readily visible even to the casual observer.

[LXA350]

Somethimes you ask yourself if the RCL management knows what it is doing. First, they come up with a idea to cruise from Israel, without having a clear plan on how they will get their whole crew vaccinated, they get 50'000 people booking these cruises and then they cancel the whole season.

 

Next, they sell cruises for non vaccinated adults out of FL, which they now step by step revert again. Couldn't they just figure things out in the firt place that this is a stupid idea at this stage...

[boatseller]

12 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

This not the same, and it doesn't matter who is president.  It is sad that we are able to determine someone's medical choices based on their political views.  In reality one has nothing to do with the other.

No.  I am being blocked from making choices.   I would board AotS tomorrow even if Royal suddenly announced no protocols, no tests and we're filling every open stateroom with unvax'd guests. 

 

I'm more worried about noro than the ccv.

[MrMarc]

Just now, boatseller said:

Drama much?  An impass is readily visible even to the casual observer.

Believe me, it is not drama, it is the law, and Judges take it very seriously.  Neither side, nor you know that there is an impasse.  The Mediator has information from both sides that no one else knows.  Sometimes you have to let things settle down and approach it differently at a different time, it is part of the skill of a Mediator.  Also, the laws and rules surrounding the Mediation process are usually very strictly enforced to maintain the success of the process.  The mediation is not over until the Mediator says it is.

[harkinmr]

11 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Drama much?  An impass is readily visible even to the casual observer.

Actually it wasn’t until someone from the Governor’s office foolishly put out a statement that there was in fact an impasse, an obvious falsehood. It may seem like drama to you, but federal judges (actually any judge) do not look kindly on violations of court rules. That he chose to take anyone to task on it publicly makes that very clear. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by harkinmr

[MrMarc]

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

No.  I am being blocked from making choices.   I would board AotS tomorrow even if Royal suddenly announced no protocols, no tests and we're filling every open stateroom with unvax'd guests. 

 

I'm more worried about noro than the ccv.

I think you missed my point.  People's views on these subjects are driven by politics, not science.  I find that terrifying.  I am also disheartened that people cannot understand that if their choice has possible affects on people around them, then it is not just a personal choice.  They should have the choice of whether or not they want to be exposed to an unvaccinated person, no matter what the odds of catching it are.  And if you were actually afraid of catching norovirus, you would pretty much never leave your house without wearing gloves and changing them frequently, because 99.9% of norovirus outbreaks take place on land, not on ships.  Only ships have to report it..