Two Test Positive On Millenium

[NMTraveller]

7 hours ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

A positive test result means the person tested positive.  Period.  A case means that the person actually has symptoms and thus the disease.  Two different things entirely.  Sorry you can't make that distinction.  But neither can those who think they are in charge.

In our state we had people that were asymptomatic and made it onto the Covid case counts.  I particularly remember one of our state prisons that had 124 positive tests where only 4 had symptoms.  Is this something new where asymptomatic cases are not being counted?

 

It seems like the cruise lines treat the cases the same whether people have symptoms or not?  What am I missing here?

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by NMTraveller

[broberts]

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

 It seems like the cruise lines treat the cases the same whether people have symptoms or not?  What am I missing here?

 

The tests were being done to allow passengers to fulfil entry requirements of St Maarten and the US. Both of which require a negative test within 72 hours prior to entry.

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

A positive test result means the person tested positive.  Period.  A case means that the person actually has symptoms and thus the disease.  Two different things entirely.  Sorry you can't make that distinction.  But neither can those who think they are in charge.

There needs to be an updated and accepted definition now in the age of vaccines.  Pretty clear to me anyway - a test can be positive or negative.  A case should imply that the positive test has progressed to symptomatic COVID, even if very mild.  That is how it should be viewed now that highly effective vaccines are available.  Or going forward it will be a semantic mess as it is now. And there will be a lot of discussion about vaccines not being effective because certain events like travel screening or medical screening for routine procedures are coming up with a few positive tests in the vaccinated population.  As very much expected.  Just like the two on Millennium.      But there is a reason people are confused about this and arguing about it. We have all been conditioned over the past 1.5 years to look at testing and positives and percent of positives in the tested population.  It is hard to break old ingrained habits.  

[sanger727]

22 hours ago, basenji56 said:

I don't get why people are surprised that there are positive tests even on a fully vaccinated ship.

 

This is going to happen over and over again.  Maybe forever.  If it scares you, don't cruise.

 

I am more interested in what they do with the people who test positive--where do they go in foreign ports?  How do they get home?  Who pays for their medical while in a foreign country?

 

I don't think people are surprised that there was a breakthrough case on a fully vaccinated ship.

 

That is expected and will continue to happen.

 

I think people are surprised that first there was the breakthrough case of a vaccinated person (unlikely, but certainly happens) and that person also developed sufficient viral load to be infections (also unlikely, but can happen) and that person spread it to their cabin mate who was also another breakthrough case of a vaccinated persons. We are now getting to a very very unlikely scenario.....

[TeeRick]

17 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

I don't think people are surprised that there was a breakthrough case on a fully vaccinated ship.

 

That is expected and will continue to happen.

 

I think people are surprised that first there was the breakthrough case of a vaccinated person (unlikely, but certainly happens) and that person also developed sufficient viral load to be infections (also unlikely, but can happen) and that person spread it to their cabin mate who was also another breakthrough case of a vaccinated persons. We are now getting to a very very unlikely scenario.....

Two positive tests on a vaccinated ship.  Not breakthrough cases of infectious COVID.  No evidence that they were infectious to others on the ship.  Contact tracing and testing proved otherwise.  No evidence that the two infected people spread it to each other either.

[sanger727]

4 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Two positive tests on a vaccinated ship.  Not breakthrough cases of infectious COVID.  No evidence that they were infectious to others on the ship.  Contact tracing and testing proved otherwise.  No evidence that the two infected people spread it to each other either.

 

Well they both caught it. So either they caught it from the same source, caught it independently of each other, or one was infectious and gave it to the other. Any of those scenarios seem extremely unlikely to both just happen in the same cabin. From everything I've read the vaccine is very effective in preventing covid whether we are talking about someone who is symptomatic or asymptomatic. You can make the distinction between a "positive test" and "covid" case all you want. They tested positive twice for covid so clearly they "caught" the virus, even if it didn't manifest in the illness.

[Grandma Cruising]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

It's great to know the vaccines are effective and we can resume our normal lives.

They have a high level (but not complete) protection against getting ill from COVID, but much lower protection from getting COVID,  and/or transmitting it to others.

[harkinmr]

11 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Why does it keep coming up?  Because it looks dumb.  

Simple. It’s none of your business. “Dumb” behavior has been rampant during this pandemic, and it ain’t the ones driving in their cars wearing a mask. 

[ipeeinthepool]

2 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

They have a high level (but not complete) protection against getting ill from COVID, but much lower protection from getting COVID,  and/or transmitting it to others.

 

Nope.  The vaccines are very effective in preventing transmission to others.

[Grandma Cruising]

57 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

There needs to be an updated and accepted definition now in the age of vaccines.  Pretty clear to me anyway - a test can be positive or negative.  A case should imply that the positive test has progressed to symptomatic COVID, even if very mild.  That is how it should be viewed now that highly effective vaccines are available.  Or going forward it will be a semantic mess as it is now. And there will be a lot of discussion about vaccines not being effective because certain events like travel screening or medical screening for routine procedures are coming up with a few positive tests in the vaccinated population.  As very much expected.  Just like the two on Millennium.      But there is a reason people are confused about this and arguing about it. We have all been conditioned over the past 1.5 years to look at testing and positives and percent of positives in the tested population.  It is hard to break old ingrained habits.  

But it doesn’t matter if you have symptoms or not, if you test positive you can transmit COVID to others, so all those who have had a confirmed positive test should be counted as cases, as happens in the UK.

[Grandma Cruising]

23 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Two positive tests on a vaccinated ship.  Not breakthrough cases of infectious COVID.  No evidence that they were infectious to others on the ship.  Contact tracing and testing proved otherwise.  No evidence that the two infected people spread it to each other either.

If you test positive you can transmit the virus!

[Grandma Cruising]

17 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Well they both caught it. So either they caught it from the same source, caught it independently of each other, or one was infectious and gave it to the other. Any of those scenarios seem extremely unlikely to both just happen in the same cabin. From everything I've read the vaccine is very effective in preventing covid whether we are talking about someone who is symptomatic or asymptomatic. You can make the distinction between a "positive test" and "covid" case all you want. They tested positive twice for covid so clearly they "caught" the virus, even if it didn't manifest in the illness.

The vaccine has a high level of protection against being very ill, but a much lower level of protection against having the virus and being able to transmit it to others.

[TeeRick]

15 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Well they both caught it. So either they caught it from the same source, caught it independently of each other, or one was infectious and gave it to the other. Any of those scenarios seem extremely unlikely to both just happen in the same cabin. From everything I've read the vaccine is very effective in preventing covid whether we are talking about someone who is symptomatic or asymptomatic. You can make the distinction between a "positive test" and "covid" case all you want. They tested positive twice for covid so clearly they "caught" the virus, even if it didn't manifest in the illness.

Not sure what you are pointing out here.  Yes they got the virus and they were vaccinated.  Why is that unexpected?  I am saying that in the context of the entire cruise ship, two positive tests were discovered, they were not symptomatic COVID,  and all operational procedures put in place worked.  Good news right for those of us that want to cruise?  Or do you see it otherwise?  

[harkinmr]

7 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

Thanks.  I'll try to remember that after my 10 hour shift at the hospital.  Where I've been wearing it all day, and it has become part of my face.  And I forgot to remove it for my drive home.  

Know what else looks dumb?  Your attempt at shaming anyone who does it.

Amen!

[TeeRick]

4 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

But it doesn’t matter if you have symptoms or not, if you test positive you can transmit COVID to others, so all those who have had a confirmed positive test should be counted as cases, as happens in the UK.

Just not true.  In very rare cases a positive vaccinated person - with COVID symptoms- so evidence of viral load- might transmit the virus if the load is high enough.  If what you believe is generally true, the vaccines would have zero effectiveness in stopping the pandemic.

[Grandma Cruising]

4 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Nope.  The vaccines are very effective in preventing transmission to others.

Not true, the vaccine is there to enable your body to fight off the virus, stopping it making you ill, but while you are fighting it you will test positive and be able to transmit to others. That’s why in the UK if you have either tested positive yourself, or been in contact with someone else who has tested positive, you have to quarantine for at least 10 days, even if you have been fully vaccinated.

[Redtravel]

I know people who are fully vaccinated and are now sick. Family of 3.    It can happen.  The father works in an elementary school.  With unvaccinated kids, if the virus is present, kids can pass it to others.  Time to vaccinate kids.

[Grandma Cruising]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

Just not true.  In very rare cases a positive vaccinated person - with COVID symptoms- so evidence of viral load- might transmit the virus if the load is high enough.  If what you believe is generally true, the vaccines would have zero effectiveness in stopping the pandemic.

And that is why in the UK the numbers of COVID cases are going up at a great rate, despite our very high level of vaccinations. What vaccinationis doing is slowing down the number of deaths and hospitalisations. The vaccine will not stop the pandemic, but it will enable us all to live with it, as we live with flu. 

[BostonBud]

6 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Simple. It’s none of your business. “Dumb” behavior has been rampant during this pandemic, and it ain’t the ones driving in their cars wearing a mask. 

Exactly. No one knows what is going on in these peoples lives. They could be an Uber driver who just dropped off a passenger and is picking up another. Who knows?  This “it just looks dumb” is so childless. You know what ISN’T dumb, thinking about your family and friends and trying to protect them from contacts you made throughout your day because maybe, just maybe one of them can’t get the vaccine for medical reasons. The unvaccinated will spread the virus and allow it to mutate to a point where it will become immune to the vaccines and we will have to start all over again. NO ONE wants that to happen. 

[ipeeinthepool]

3 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

Not true, the vaccine is there to enable your body to fight off the virus, stopping it making you ill, but while you are fighting it you will test positive and be able to transmit to others. That’s why in the UK if you have either tested positive yourself, or been in contact with someone else who has tested positive, you have to quarantine for at least 10 days, even if you have been fully vaccinated.

 

The viral load in vaccinated people who are asymptomatic is too load to effectively spread Covid to others.  Sure it is possible, but it is very, very, very unlikely.  The world has started to recognize this and is starting to open.  If this isn't currently recognized in the UK, I'm sure they will recognize this fact shortly.

[kathy49]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

 

The vaccines are effective against the Delta variant.  If you are vaccinated, it's not a significant concern.  

WEll in UK where this variant has really taken hold the vaccine may not be effective against the Delta Variant.

[CalTexCruiser]

Former FDA commissioner Dr Gottlieb recently said that studies show the AZ/J&J vaccines are 60% effective against the Delta variant (originally from India and now the dominant variant in the UK), and the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines are 88% effective against the Delta variant.

 

I wonder if the current spike in the UK is in the non-vaccinated and AZ-vaccinated populations?

[CalTexCruiser]

Also does anyone know if the crew has predominantly taken J&J?

 

Would that mean they may be more susceptible to the Delta variant than Pfizer/Moderna vaccinated passengers?  Or is the fact that > 95% vaccinated means there is herd immunity on the ship so that any infection would be very limited (as happened on the first Millennium cruise)?