Art Auctions?

[jg51]

1 hour ago, ORV said:

So getting back to the original question. Since cruising has RESTARTED, has anyone seen or heard reports of the art auctions on board? 

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Actually, the "original question" by "MikeKool" was this:

"Are there art auctions on the Celebrity Edge?"

.

But, "ORV," if you would like to reframe the question to ask about the new cruises that have just begun, we have a good answer for you.  On Wednesday, CrCr member "Seany527" started a very helpful (but much neglected) thread titled ...

"Celebrity Today’s from Millennium’s Sint Maarten Sailings"

 

In this thread he/she/they made it possible for us to see the actual "dailies" from Millie's first new-era cruise (June 12, 2021).  If you look through them, you will see that Park West had some (so-called "art") auctions.

 

We will post a follow-up message  shortly, to explain why we used the snide language -- "so-called art" auctions.  For now, however, here is a link to the thread that we mentioned above:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2785624-celebrity-today’s-from-millennium’s-sint-maarten-sailings/

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Have fun at sea!

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Edited June 20, 2021 by jg51

[ORV]

8 minutes ago, jg51 said:

.

Actually, the "original question" by "MikeKool" was this:

"Are there art auctions on the Celebrity Edge?"

.

But, "ORV," if you would like to reframe the question to ask about the new cruises that have just begun, we have a good answer for you.  On Wednesday, CrCr member "Seany527" started a very helpful (but much neglected) thread titled ...

"Celebrity Today’s from Millennium’s Sint Maarten Sailings"

 

In this thread he/she/they made it possible for us to see the actual "dailies" from Millie's first new-era cruise (June 12, 2021).  If you look through them, you will see that Park West had some (so-called "art") auctions.

 

We will post a follow-up message  shortly, to explain why we used the snide language -- "so-called art" auctions.  For now, however, here is a link to the thread that we mentioned above:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2785624-celebrity-today’s-from-millennium’s-sint-maarten-sailings/

.

Have fun at sea!

.

 

Thanks, things must be back to normal if they're having them. I haven't really followed any live from as I'm waiting for more normal itineraries. Been to most of the Caribbean and for the most part am not ready to go back any time soon. 

[jg51]

4 minutes ago, jg51 said:

... We will post a follow-up message  shortly, to explain why we used the snide language -- "so-called art" auctions.  ...

.

As promised/threatened, above, we are back with an explanation as to why we have never purchased anything at an auction aboard a ship.  We recommend (here, at CrCr) that no one bid on anything -- but we never say that to a fellow guest on board, because we don't want to take away any of their fun. 

 

We ourselves never bid, because we do not consider the merchandise to be genuine art (with just a few exceptions).  Why?  We have read that almost everything being offered is a reproduction, made in vast quantities through a recent [late 1980s] process called "giclee," which involves inkjet printers.  [That is why you may have seen what seemed to be the same original painting on dozens of different ships!]  Sometimes the output (which we cannot honestly call a "painting" or even a "print") then has some brushstrokes added (to give a "work" a bit of impasto -- so much the better to fool the public!

 

We would recommend bidding only on true, original works of art (e.g., sculptures, oil paintings, water colors) -- or, if necessary, on old-fashioned [silkscreen, woodblock, etc.], authorized, limited-edition, approved-and-signed-by-artist PRINTs.  Neither the former nor the latter, in our opinion, includes what is made by the giclee process.

 

In closing, we want to agree with the jist of what another member stated, in an earlier post in this thread.  Although we have decided not to bid at auctions aboard ships (for the reasons stated above), we have never asked any cruise line -- in fifteen years -- not to have those auctions, for two reasons:  (1) They seem to give pleasure to people who do not realize what they are doing, and ... (2) They probably rake in a mountain of cash for the cruise line, thereby "subsidizing" our own cruise [effectively lowering our fare!]. 

 

The same can be said of each and every one of the following features on cruises -- in which we choose not to invest any funds, but gladly accept the "subsidy" that they provide for us poor old folks, by lowering our fare.  We have never asked a cruise line to stop offering these, even though we have aways said ...

~~~ "no" to all products and services at spas ...

~~~ "no" to a ships' excursions (unless one is the only way to get to highly desirable destination) ...

~~~ "no" to "Chef's Table," which always seems overpriced ...

~~~ "no" to the casino ...

~~~ "no" to bingo ...

~~~ "no" to photos ...

~~~ "no" to most merchandise (clothing, watches, jewelry, etc) in the shops [although duty-free liquor and fragrances are OK].

 

We are now stepping down off the "soap box."

.

 

 

[LGW59]

1 minute ago, jg51 said:

.

As promised/threatened, above, we are back with an explanation as to why we have never purchased anything at an auction aboard a ship.  We recommend (here, at CrCr) that no one bid on anything -- but we never say that to a fellow guest on board, because we don't want to take away any of their fun. 

 

We ourselves never bid, because we do not consider the merchandise to be genuine art (with just a few exceptions).  Why?  We have read that almost everything being offered is a reproduction, made in vast quantities through a recent [late 1980s] process called "giclee," which involves inkjet printers.  [That is why you may have seen what seemed to be the same original painting on dozens of different ships!]  Sometimes the output (which we cannot honestly call a "painting" or even a "print") then has some brushstrokes added (to give a "work" a bit of impasto -- so much the better to fool the public!

 

We would recommend bidding only on true, original works of art (e.g., sculptures, oil paintings, water colors) -- or, if necessary, on old-fashioned [silkscreen, woodblock, etc.], authorized, limited-edition, approved-and-signed-by-artist PRINTs.  Neither the former nor the latter, in our opinion, includes what is made by the giclee process.

 

In closing, we want to agree with the jist of what another member stated, in an earlier post in this thread.  Although we have decided not to bid at auctions aboard ships (for the reasons stated above), we have never asked any cruise line -- in fifteen years -- not to have those auctions, for two reasons:  (1) They seem to give pleasure to people who do not realize what they are doing, and ... (2) They probably rake in a mountain of cash for the cruise line, thereby "subsidizing" our own cruise [effectively lowering our fare!]. 

 

The same can be said of each and every one of the following features on cruises -- in which we choose not to invest any funds, but gladly accept the "subsidy" that they provide for us poor old folks, by lowering our fare.  We have never asked a cruise line to stop offering these, even though we have aways said ...

~~~ "no" to all products and services at spas ...

~~~ "no" to a ships' excursions (unless one is the only way to get to highly desirable destination) ...

~~~ "no" to "Chef's Table," which always seems overpriced ...

~~~ "no" to the casino ...

~~~ "no" to bingo ...

~~~ "no" to photos ...

~~~ "no" to most merchandise (clothing, watches, jewelry, etc) in the shops [although duty-free liquor and fragrances are OK].

 

We are now stepping down off the "soap box."

.

 

 

Really no one cares about this novel.  Find something real to concern yourself with.  🥳

[weregoingcruising]

18 minutes ago, jg51 said:

.

As promised/threatened, above, we are back with an explanation as to why we have never purchased anything at an auction aboard a ship.  We recommend (here, at CrCr) that no one bid on anything -- but we never say that to a fellow guest on board, because we don't want to take away any of their fun. 

 

We ourselves never bid, because we do not consider the merchandise to be genuine art (with just a few exceptions).  Why?  We have read that almost everything being offered is a reproduction, made in vast quantities through a recent [late 1980s] process called "giclee," which involves inkjet printers.  [That is why you may have seen what seemed to be the same original painting on dozens of different ships!]  Sometimes the output (which we cannot honestly call a "painting" or even a "print") then has some brushstrokes added (to give a "work" a bit of impasto -- so much the better to fool the public!

 

We would recommend bidding only on true, original works of art (e.g., sculptures, oil paintings, water colors) -- or, if necessary, on old-fashioned [silkscreen, woodblock, etc.], authorized, limited-edition, approved-and-signed-by-artist PRINTs.  Neither the former nor the latter, in our opinion, includes what is made by the giclee process.

 

In closing, we want to agree with the jist of what another member stated, in an earlier post in this thread.  Although we have decided not to bid at auctions aboard ships (for the reasons stated above), we have never asked any cruise line -- in fifteen years -- not to have those auctions, for two reasons:  (1) They seem to give pleasure to people who do not realize what they are doing, and ... (2) They probably rake in a mountain of cash for the cruise line, thereby "subsidizing" our own cruise [effectively lowering our fare!]. 

 

The same can be said of each and every one of the following features on cruises -- in which we choose not to invest any funds, but gladly accept the "subsidy" that they provide for us poor old folks, by lowering our fare.  We have never asked a cruise line to stop offering these, even though we have aways said ...

~~~ "no" to all products and services at spas ...

~~~ "no" to a ships' excursions (unless one is the only way to get to highly desirable destination) ...

~~~ "no" to "Chef's Table," which always seems overpriced ...

~~~ "no" to the casino ...

~~~ "no" to bingo ...

~~~ "no" to photos ...

~~~ "no" to most merchandise (clothing, watches, jewelry, etc) in the shops [although duty-free liquor and fragrances are OK].

 

We are now stepping down off the "soap box."

.

 

 

 

[weregoingcruising]

Did you buy the soap box and was it subsidized?

1 minute ago, weregoingcruising said:

 

 

[jg51]

31 minutes ago, weregoingcruising said:

Did you buy the soap box and was it subsidized?

 

.

It was obtained "Chicago style" -- through gentle persuasion 😉

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, jg51 said:

 

 

We ourselves never bid, because we do not consider the merchandise to be genuine art (with just a few exceptions).  Why?  We have read that almost everything being offered is a reproduction, made in vast quantities through a recent [late 1980s] process called "giclee," which involves inkjet printers.  [That is why you may have seen what seemed to be the same original painting on dozens of different ships!]  Sometimes the output (which we cannot honestly call a "painting" or even a "print") then has some brushstrokes added (to give a "work" a bit of impasto -- so much the better to fool the public!

 

 

 

OP and others like him here who have purchased at the "auctions"  here don't want to believe this and won't beleive it  because they have drunk the" "Kool" aid and believe they have purchased fine art. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Charles4515

[MikeKool]

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

OP and others like him here who have purchased at the "auctions"  here don't want to believe this and won't beleive it  because they have drunk the" "Kool" aid and believe they have purchased fine art. 

With 15K+ posts you certainly have a big mouth. You must know everything about everything!

[TeeRick]

People on cruises can spend their money on anything they want.  If they like art auctions or blackjack or stone massages or giving great tips, or staying in a Royal Suite,  it is their money, their choice.  Why does it become so judgmental by some here?  I guess I will never understand this.  

[bEwAbG]

There was a longform article in the NY Times a couple years ago about Peter Max having advanced dementia and being exploited by a group of associates (including an estranged son) who had him signing works done by others (some being paid minimum wage).  Pretty sordid story.  Park West was a big player in it.  Just the tip of the iceberg.  Google them and read a few articles.  

Edited June 22, 2021 by bEwAbG

[Lextraste]

I was on the Celebrity Edge last summer, and they definitely have art auctions. It was a really fun experience, even though I didn’t end up buying anything. The atmosphere was lively, and the pieces were so diverse, ranging from contemporary to classic. It reminded me of when I attended World Art Dubai a few years back.

[ScottC4746]

Be very careful as I found out on another cruise line who shall be left nameless.

 

I bought what was made out to be Thomas Kinkade.  When it was delivered it was a different artist.

Before you bid, make sure you know what you are doing.  Same with buying jewelry in the shops.  Rolexes in particular.  I was on another cruise line who shall be left nameless that had "Rolexes," which I will put in parenthesis as I doubt they were really Rolexes.  These ticked.  Rolexes sweep.  Also be leery of refurbished Rolexes.  If it is an unauthorized repair place.

[Lextraste]

18 hours ago, Lextraste said:

I was on the Celebrity Edge last summer, and they definitely have art auctions. It was a really fun experience, even though I didn’t end up buying anything. The atmosphere was lively, and the pieces were so diverse, ranging from contemporary to classic. It reminded me of when I attended World Art Dubai a few years back.

That event was amazing, and I found all the info I needed in one place here at https://sandytimes.ae/articles/195/world-art-dubai-all-info-in-one-place . If you love art, you’ll enjoy the auctions on the ship for sure!

Edited May 23 by Lextraste

[ggo85]

The reason the auctions are so lively is to lure you into buying.  If you like an artist, write down the info and follow up when you get home. See if you’re still as excited about it.  Compare prices.  The artwork sold on the ship isn’t so valuable or unique that you won’t find it elsewhere.  
 

The alternative is to buy something cheap such that you won’t have regrets later.  

[NutsAboutGolf]

35 minutes ago, ggo85 said:

The reason the auctions are so lively is to lure you into buying.  If you like an artist, write down the info and follow up when you get home. See if you’re still as excited about it.  Compare prices.  The artwork sold on the ship isn’t so valuable or unique that you won’t find it elsewhere.  
 

The alternative is to buy something cheap such that you won’t have regrets later.  

This is related to one of the reasons they do auctions vs selling them at a fixed price.  For example, let’s say you win an art piece which is 5 times the amount you can buy it online; now you have no one but to blame but yourself.  When you sit down at the auction they’re watching you like a hawk and will try all sorts of different types of art in hopes to get you to bid.  Also, a lot of the pieces aren’t even painting but are rather prints unless things have changed

[flyerbrp]

I thought long and hard about whether to reply to this thread as it will surely open me up to attack. However I felt strongly enough that it is worth the risk. 

We have cruised over 40 times on various lines and yes we attend Park West art auctions on board and more recently their on line Zoom auctions held monthly. And yes we have recently purchased several works of art from Park West. They represent many established and upcoming artists world wide. They also sell less valuable but equally joyful items and sports memorabilia. We bought our first, an Alexandre Renoir last year and most recently a Sam Park. Both are hand embellished giclée and hand signed. Both are magnificent works by very wonderful artists that have brightened our home. I became Facebook friends with Alexandre Renior and gladly follow his work. Earlier this year we purchased a Sam Park "Portofino Harbor" and last month on a cruise on the Constellation Rome to Revenna a port of call was Portofino. How awesome was it to have lunch harbor side at the exact spot where Sam Park was inspired to capture his vision to paint. 

Whether you choose to attend or not, purchase or not is a personal choice. It's a personal choice to fly first class or coach, both arrive at the destination at the same time. Sky suite? Aqua? Veranda? Inside cabin? All leave and arrive at the port at the same time. Bar package or not a drinker? All personal choices on how one wants to invest in their vacation. To criticize or even comment on how one designs or invests their own assets in their vacation or anything for that matter is quite frankly rude. Being able to make personal choices without attack is called freedom and liberty. If one wants to buy a Rolex or Timex have at it. Whose place is it to judge.

Want to spend time at a country club playing golf, or spending time reading in a library its a  personal choice. If I want to buy a Ford instead of a BMW who should care? We all would do better if we put away our soapboxes and paid less attention to what artwork people buy and certainly not worry about what they paid for their joy. 

[Charles4515]

7 hours ago, Lextraste said:

That event was amazing, and I found all the info I needed in one place here at https://sandytimes.ae/articles/195/world-art-dubai-all-info-in-one-place . If you love art, you’ll enjoy the auctions on the ship for sure!

I love art and I don't like the auctions. Most of the "art" is produced in a factory. I have seen the same "work" on sale on several ships. The auctions are to sucker in naive passengers. They take advantage of the fact that most people are not knowledgable. 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, flyerbrp said:

I thought long and hard about whether to reply to this thread as it will surely open me up to attack. However I felt strongly enough that it is worth the risk. 

We have cruised over 40 times on various lines and yes we attend Park West art auctions on board and more recently their on line Zoom auctions held monthly. And yes we have recently purchased several works of art from Park West. They represent many established and upcoming artists world wide. They also sell less valuable but equally joyful items and sports memorabilia. We bought our first, an Alexandre Renoir last year and most recently a Sam Park. Both are hand embellished giclée and hand signed. Both are magnificent works by very wonderful artists that have brightened our home. I became Facebook friends with Alexandre Renior and gladly follow his work. Earlier this year we purchased a Sam Park "Portofino Harbor" and last month on a cruise on the Constellation Rome to Revenna a port of call was Portofino. How awesome was it to have lunch harbor side at the exact spot where Sam Park was inspired to capture his vision to paint. 

Whether you choose to attend or not, purchase or not is a personal choice. It's a personal choice to fly first class or coach, both arrive at the destination at the same time. Sky suite? Aqua? Veranda? Inside cabin? All leave and arrive at the port at the same time. Bar package or not a drinker? All personal choices on how one wants to invest in their vacation. To criticize or even comment on how one designs or invests their own assets in their vacation or anything for that matter is quite frankly rude. Being able to make personal choices without attack is called freedom and liberty. If one wants to buy a Rolex or Timex have at it. Whose place is it to judge.

Want to spend time at a country club playing golf, or spending time reading in a library its a  personal choice. If I want to buy a Ford instead of a BMW who should care? We all would do better if we put away our soapboxes and paid less attention to what artwork people buy and certainly not worry about what they paid for their joy. 

 

Except of course everyone, given the choice, would opt for first class over economy.  🙂

 

I do understand your point.  Though I think there is a difference between judging personal choices of artwork and expressing concerns about business practices.  

 

Otherwise, sure, if you enjoy it and understand what it is, then why not.  I sure don't lose sleep over justifying the things I enjoy.  

 

 

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, flyerbrp said:

I thought long and hard about whether to reply to this thread as it will surely open me up to attack. However I felt strongly enough that it is worth the risk. 

We have cruised over 40 times on various lines and yes we attend Park West art auctions on board and more recently their on line Zoom auctions held monthly. And yes we have recently purchased several works of art from Park West. They represent many established and upcoming artists world wide. They also sell less valuable but equally joyful items and sports memorabilia. We bought our first, an Alexandre Renoir last year and most recently a Sam Park. Both are hand embellished giclée and hand signed. Both are magnificent works by very wonderful artists that have brightened our home. I became Facebook friends with Alexandre Renior and gladly follow his work. Earlier this year we purchased a Sam Park "Portofino Harbor" and last month on a cruise on the Constellation Rome to Revenna a port of call was Portofino. How awesome was it to have lunch harbor side at the exact spot where Sam Park was inspired to capture his vision to paint. 

Whether you choose to attend or not, purchase or not is a personal choice. It's a personal choice to fly first class or coach, both arrive at the destination at the same time. Sky suite? Aqua? Veranda? Inside cabin? All leave and arrive at the port at the same time. Bar package or not a drinker? All personal choices on how one wants to invest in their vacation. To criticize or even comment on how one designs or invests their own assets in their vacation or anything for that matter is quite frankly rude. Being able to make personal choices without attack is called freedom and liberty. If one wants to buy a Rolex or Timex have at it. Whose place is it to judge.

Want to spend time at a country club playing golf, or spending time reading in a library its a  personal choice. If I want to buy a Ford instead of a BMW who should care? We all would do better if we put away our soapboxes and paid less attention to what artwork people buy and certainly not worry about what they paid for their joy. 

The issue in the thread isn't about the value of or buying questionable quality art on a ship. The real issue is that a minority of guests are participating in an event that denies the majority access to some popular ship facilities on multiple days of any cruise. I could care less what you do with your time on the ship, but when it comes to closing a very popular facility like the Crow's Nest to the majority of passengers, Park West needs to go away. The Crow's Nest is one of the things we love about HAL, and I do not think any vendor should have the right or ability to close it off to me or any other passengers.

Edited May 23 by terrydtx

[ggo85]

Buying art on a ship is like buying expensive jewelry in Caribbean ports.  If you love what you're buying -- go for it.  However, buy it b/c you love it NOT b/c you think you're getting a great deal.  Sometimes you might.  Most of the time you won't.  If it gives you pleasure, that's what counts.  

 

My only suggestion for any purchase where you don't have easy ability to compare costs, verify legitimacy, etc. is to limit the amount you pay.  That way, if you have buyer's remorse or learn that the item isn't worth what you paid for it, you haven't paid enough for it to matter. 

 

IOW, if you pay $50 for a piece of art or jewelry, so what if it's fake, worthless or you end up hating it.  If you pay $5,000 -- probably a different story.

[NMTraveller]

Most of the Park West art is prints at a high price.  Not a fan…

[rmalbers]

19 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Most of the Park West art is prints at a high price.  Not a fan…

They do have the best printers that money can buy, you have to give them that.  But they really should tell people what they are really selling.  They should be honest about it.