Would you cruise w a new cruise line w copies of old liners such as the FRANCE, MICHALANGELO, NORMANDIE, ETC?

[CGTNORMANDIE]

On 7/7/2021 at 4:26 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

My memory of the S. S. United States' 

 history is a bit hazy, but didn't NCL initially make an investment in this ship with the intent of returning her to service?  If my memory is correct, didn't the Company understand the implications of their investment?  

Yes NCL got involved and then came to the same conclusion every other marine surveyor came to…it can’t be done.  I believe SS US could become a convention center if done under cover and connected to a larger forum.  That would take billions.  

[Rotterdam]

There is a group headed by Susan Gibbs trying to save the liner for another purpose/ maritime museum.  Of course $$$ is a major obstacle.

Personally I wish the shop would be towed to NYC WESTSIDE PIERS, next to the INTREPID AIRCRAFT CARTIER.

THERE SHE COULD BE RESTORED FOR MIXED USE, MUSEUM, RESTAURANTS ETC.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Rotterdam said:

There is a group headed by Susan Gibbs trying to save the liner for another purpose/ maritime museum.  Of course $$$ is a major obstacle.

Personally I wish the shop would be towed to NYC WESTSIDE PIERS, next to the INTREPID AIRCRAFT CARTIER.

THERE SHE COULD BE RESTORED FOR MIXED USE, MUSEUM, RESTAURANTS ETC.

 

Your post caused me to access the SS United States Conservancy's web site.  I have visited this some time ago and have heard nothing for a long time.  It was an interesting read about RXR Realty being involved in trying to develop plans for the ship as well as their submitting proposals to several American port cities.  But, that was in March, 2020.  

 

I wonder in what condition the ship is.  Pictures of her now show significant deterioration of the exterior of the hull.  Reportedly Queen Mary is in poor condition and I wonder if the United States may not be the same or worse shape.  Queen Mary has, at least, had a second life so there would have been some maintenance done on her since she was retired from service. 

 

Donations are still being solicited.  What would such money now be used?  

[norboy76]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:17 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

Your post caused me to access the SS United States Conservancy's web site.  I have visited this some time ago and have heard nothing for a long time.  It was an interesting read about RXR Realty being involved in trying to develop plans for the ship as well as their submitting proposals to several American port cities.  But, that was in March, 2020.  

 

I wonder in what condition the ship is.  Pictures of her now show significant deterioration of the exterior of the hull.  Reportedly Queen Mary is in poor condition and I wonder if the United States may not be the same or worse shape.  Queen Mary has, at least, had a second life so there would have been some maintenance done on her since she was retired from service. 

 

Donations are still being solicited.  What would such money now be used?  

The SS United States looks terrible inside from photos that I've found, including what looks like a tree and ivy and plants growing inside one of the rooms and looks like a lot of water has been getting inside too judging by these photos. Sadly I think it's too late to save her and because of costs, scrapping sadly would be the best thing instead of letting her probably rust even more and capsize at the dock she's at. Might be time to let this Lady go to sleep gracefully instead of rolling over onto her side.

[rkacruiser]

6 hours ago, norboy76 said:

Might be time to let this Lady go to sleep gracefully instead of rolling over onto her side.

 

Yes, it's time.  In fact, it's past time.  It always amazes me where plant life is able to establish a roothold and begin to grow, sometimes, flourishing.  

 

If the ship was somehow returned to service, a Winter Garden is already underway in being established.  (Poor joke, I know.)  

[Heidi13]

Based on those photographs, they require many, many hundreds of millions of dollars of work just to refurbish the pax areas. Never mind the mechanical spaces.

 

Don't know the US Regs, but a project of that scope in Canada would require upgrading to meet many of the current regulations.

[norboy76]

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Based on those photographs, they require many, many hundreds of millions of dollars of work just to refurbish the pax areas. Never mind the mechanical spaces.

 

Don't know the US Regs, but a project of that scope in Canada would require upgrading to meet many of the current regulations.

The rest of the SS United States looks just as bad, no walls, no nothing, just exposed metal and everything, she was totally gutted as can be seen in these photos. 

1. Ballroom. 

2. First Class Observation Lounge 

3. First Class Cabins (You can see where the walls and the bathrooms were on the floor

4. Theater

5. Bar

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Thanks for the pix.  Like I said…a benevolent billionaire.  The bones in the SSUS are still good.  If they turned the ship into an inside convention venue it could work.   They would not have to restore the entire interior.  I envision a convention venue where the ship is raised and covered while being attached to a larger convention center.  This could work.  The Big U is a great achievement of American industrial might and should be saved if possible.  The SSUS Conservatory has done a heroic job keeping the dream alive.  Thanks to Susan Gibbs and many others.  Susan Gibbs is Francis Gibbs grand daughter.  Of the hundreds of ships designed by Gibbs and Cox the SSUS was Francis Gibbs life long dream and most crowning achievement.  

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, norboy76 said:

The rest of the SS United States looks just as bad, no walls, no nothing, just exposed metal and everything, she was totally gutted as can be seen in these photos. 

 

Probably a reason for such a thorough gutting of the interior was the need to remove asbestos.  

[rkacruiser]

17 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Don't know the US Regs, but a project of that scope in Canada would require upgrading to meet many of the current regulations.

 

I am sure you correct that the regulations of 2021 would have to be met.  Whenever my homeowners association has to make a replacement of a major item, we must replace that item to meet the current code.  

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

 I envision a convention venue where the ship is raised and covered while being attached to a larger convention center.  This could work.  

 

You are more optimistic than I that this could be done.  

 

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

a benevolent billionaire

 

The ones of which I am aware have interests in other causes:  space flights, humanitarian issues, etc.  

 

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The Big U is a great achievement of American industrial might and should be saved if possible.  The SSUS Conservatory has done a heroic job keeping the dream alive.  Thanks to Susan Gibbs and many others.  Susan Gibbs is Francis Gibbs grand daughter.  Of the hundreds of ships designed by Gibbs and Cox the SSUS was Francis Gibbs life long dream and most crowning achievement.  

 

Complete agreement with your post.  Ms. Gibbs, and I think the relatives of the final Master of the S. S. United States, Captain Anderson, have been involved in the Conservancy efforts.

 

I asked a question on a previous post and did not receive an answer.  (There may not be one, I realize.)  The Conservancy on their web site is still requesting donations.  Why?  How would such money be used?  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

25 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

You are more optimistic than I that this could be done.  

There are those of us who still believe this can be done.

 

The ones of which I am aware have interests in other causes:  space flights, humanitarian issues, etc.  

Most of them don’t benefit US causes…even though they made their money here.  

 

Complete agreement with your post.  Ms. Gibbs, and I think the relatives of the final Master of the S. S. United States, Captain Anderson, have been involved in the Conservancy efforts.

I hear the same thing.  I am also a member of the SSUS Conservancy.

I asked a question on a previous post and did not receive an answer.  (There may not be one, I realize.)  The Conservancy on their web site is still requesting donations.  Why?  How would such money be used?

The money is used to pay the docking fees and promoting the idea of saving this important national monument.  The ship represents the best of America.  

 

 

 

 

 

[CGTNORMANDIE]

49 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Probably a reason for such a thorough gutting of the interior was the need to remove asbestos.  

Yes…the ship was towed to Turkey and all asbestos removed.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Probably a reason for such a thorough gutting of the interior was the need to remove asbestos.  

 

That was my assumption, as we had to either remove the asbestos or encapsulate it, and if encapsulate we had a ship register listing all contents and signs clearly marking where it was.

 

We did the encapsulation on all our ships and it was a nightmare.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

 I am also a member of the SSUS Conservancy.

 

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The money is used to pay the docking fees and promoting the idea of saving this important national monument.  The ship represents the best of America.  

 

Have you any knowledge of the financial condition of the Conservancy?  

 

S. S. United States was built with a subsidy from the Federal Government with the intent, as I understand it, that the ship could be used by the U. S. Navy as a troop transport ship, if such was needed.  That subsidy was significant, as I recall.  Has any attempt been made to enlist the Federal Government in preserving the ship as a national monument?  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

10 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

Have you any knowledge of the financial condition of the Conservancy?  

 

S. S. United States was built with a subsidy from the Federal Government with the intent, as I understand it, that the ship could be used by the U. S. Navy as a troop transport ship, if such was needed.  That subsidy was significant, as I recall.  Has any attempt been made to enlist the Federal Government in preserving the ship as a national monument?  

The Conservancy continues to hang on.  Some of the donations have been significant in the hundreds of thousands.  There is still great interest in preserving the SSUS.  The ship can be preserved and used for multiple venues.  It is my opinion that this can only be done if she is raised out of water.  This can be done by parking her at a suitable pier and then building a solid platform beneath her and then gently raising her as the platform is constructed to above sea level.  
 

There has been zero interest from the government.  

[marco]

On the plus side, if something CAN be done....the ship is a "blank canvas".

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

There has been zero interest from the government.  

 

Disappointing.  Some of the historic WW II ships at Pearl Harbor have been preserved by the National Park Service.  In her own way, the United States is historic as well.  But, as we all know, NPS is a very severely underfunded agency of our Government.  Just not the money for their participation in trying to save the ship, I am sure.  It's too bad that a prominent legislator or two or more could not be persuaded to get interest in such preservation.  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

5 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Disappointing.  Some of the historic WW II ships at Pearl Harbor have been preserved by the National Park Service.  In her own way, the United States is historic as well.  But, as we all know, NPS is a very severely underfunded agency of our Government.  Just not the money for their participation in trying to save the ship, I am sure.  It's too bad that a prominent legislator or two or more could not be persuaded to get interest in such preservation.  

It would take Presidential support along with both houses.

[Rotterdam]

6 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

It would take Presidential support along with both houses.

Or a check from Jeff bBezos, Michael Bloomberg, the Sackler family,  Mark Schmuckerberg and a host of others.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

6 hours ago, Rotterdam said:

Or a check from Jeff bBezos, Michael Bloomberg, the Sackler family,  Mark Schmuckerberg and a host of others.

Well said!

[chengkp75]

On 7/6/2021 at 9:09 PM, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The SS US turbines are shot.  They would need to be replaced.  I remember the SS France burned a ton per mile when running on all four propellers.  If any of you know what a home heating oil tank looks like…just think it took more than 3,000 of those to cross the Atlantic.  

The entire engine room and propulsion plant was going to be replaced.  Steam propulsion is so inefficient, that only ships that can burn their own cargo (LNG tankers) even consider using it.  The power that the SSUS had was needed to push her well beyond hull speed to her maximum speed, and no one needs or wants that these days, even Cunard has scaled back the QM2 speeds.  

 

NCL bought the SSUS mainly to maintain a monopoly on US passenger ship bottoms.  But the CEO of Genting Group (that owned NCL at the time), KT Lim, has a fascination with the SSUS.  NCL's plans to rebuild the SSUS never really got off the ground, both due to massive losses from the US flag Hawaiian trade, and also lawsuits by the SSUS Conservancy regarding the power plant, which the Conservancy wanted to remain.

 

KT Lim's fascination with the SSUS continued after NCL sold it, and Genting sold majority share of NCL.  Genting still owns Crystal cruises, and Crystal actually went and did a feasibility study on rebuilding the SSUS.  Aside from the major costs involved with installing a new diesel electric power plant, and bringing the ship up to SOLAS standards, the major sticking point was that the entire stern would need to be redesigned to have two rudders (SSUS only has one, and SOLAS requires two for passenger vessels), or for two azipods.  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The entire engine room and propulsion plant was going to be replaced.  Steam propulsion is so inefficient, that only ships that can burn their own cargo (LNG tankers) even consider using it.  The power that the SSUS had was needed to push her well beyond hull speed to her maximum speed, and no one needs or wants that these days, even Cunard has scaled back the QM2 speeds.  

 

NCL bought the SSUS mainly to maintain a monopoly on US passenger ship bottoms.  But the CEO of Genting Group (that owned NCL at the time), KT Lim, has a fascination with the SSUS.  NCL's plans to rebuild the SSUS never really got off the ground, both due to massive losses from the US flag Hawaiian trade, and also lawsuits by the SSUS Conservancy regarding the power plant, which the Conservancy wanted to remain.

 

KT Lim's fascination with the SSUS continued after NCL sold it, and Genting sold majority share of NCL.  Genting still owns Crystal cruises, and Crystal actually went and did a feasibility study on rebuilding the SSUS.  Aside from the major costs involved with installing a new diesel electric power plant, and bringing the ship up to SOLAS standards, the major sticking point was that the entire stern would need to be redesigned to have two rudders (SSUS only has one, and SOLAS requires two for passenger vessels), or for two azipods.  

Thank you CKP.  As always you are the ultimate authority on marine engineering.  As a member of the SSUS Conservancy I disagree with the idea of retaining the turbines.  After nearly 70 years, and 42 years laid up, how would anyone think the turbines could be used??  

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Thank you CKP.  As always you are the ultimate authority on marine engineering.  As a member of the SSUS Conservancy I disagree with the idea of retaining the turbines.  After nearly 70 years, and 42 years laid up, how would anyone think the turbines could be used??  

I don't think the Conservancy was thinking of actually using the turbines, because they never really considered reactivating the ship.  They wanted the engine rooms retained as they were what made the SSUS unique, and historical.

[chengkp75]

On 7/18/2021 at 7:49 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

 

Have you any knowledge of the financial condition of the Conservancy?  

 

S. S. United States was built with a subsidy from the Federal Government with the intent, as I understand it, that the ship could be used by the U. S. Navy as a troop transport ship, if such was needed.  That subsidy was significant, as I recall.  Has any attempt been made to enlist the Federal Government in preserving the ship as a national monument?  

The construction and operating subsidies applied to all US flag vessels at the time.  The subsidies amounted to the difference in cost to build the ship in the US versus overseas, or the difference in operating cost to fly the US flag versus another nation's flag.  These subsidies were introduced by the Merchant Marine Act of 1936, which was designed by President Roosevelt to prepare our Merchant Marine for WW2.  It did this job admirably, but it's continuation long after the war led, in my opinion, to the demise of the US Merchant Marine, as shipowners, designers, builders, and unions did not look for innovations to keep ahead of the rest of the world, but instead merely passed additional  costs on to the Federal government as subsidies.  When Reagan ended the subsidies, the bottom really fell out of our fleet.

 

Part of the subsidy program, was that all ships that received subsidies could be called to active service in times of war.  The SSUS was no different, and carries no special caveat for federal interest in preserving her.