Italy bans almost all cruise ships in Venice

[Vineyard View]

In reading AFAR article today regarding the decision out of Italy, it did state hat the 200 pax capacity was quoted as Ithikan mentioned it also stated the Italian govt has approved at least four temporary docking sites near the industrial port of Marghera, located on the northwestern Adriatic Sea. 
 

I have a feeling that the cruise lines (maybe) were caught sideways. Original discussions were about ships under 1k pax. To come out with 200 pax is a real reason to give pause to moving forward with B2B  of Venice next May. I am not sure if deposits can be transferred to other cruises, but the discussion needs to take place very soon with friends traveling with us on whether to cut our losses before travel insurance  is paid for, airline tickets bought, etc. 

[excitedofharpenden]

23 hours ago, Riocca said:

I understand the need to protect Venice however I don’t understand why the Venice cruise terminal can’t be used using a different route. 
If Marghera is an acceptable alternative, remembering many of the larger ships are built their anyway, ships still have to access the Venetian Lagoon. 
My understanding is that cruise ships have actually used this route in the past but dredging is required to reopen it, given the local infrastructure surely this would be better?

 

It works differently in Italy. It's very corrupt for a start and not in good financial health. Covid has done nothing to help. So whilst it makes perfect sense to many of us, sadly it doesn't happen that way there. Italy have been dithering for years over Venice. You'd think they'd have a plan, but they don't. 

 

I'll add that I absolutely love Italy, it's people and lifestyle, but there are seem deep rooted shortcomings that won't be easily solved. 

 

Phil 

[Riocca]

4 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

In reading AFAR article today regarding the decision out of Italy, it did state hat the 200 pax capacity was quoted as Ithikan mentioned it also stated the Italian govt has approved at least four temporary docking sites near the industrial port of Marghera, located on the northwestern Adriatic Sea. 
 

I have a feeling that the cruise lines (maybe) were caught sideways. Original discussions were about ships under 1k pax. To come out with 200 pax is a real reason to give pause to moving forward with B2B  of Venice next May. I am not sure if deposits can be transferred to other cruises, but the discussion needs to take place very soon with friends traveling with us on whether to cut our losses before travel insurance  is paid for, airline tickets bought, etc. 

The loss of sailing into Venice and docking in San Basilio, especially overnight, is a blow to any itinerary but I would think carefully before jumping ship. Venice is an iconic destination but visiting from a docking location in Marghera will be relatively easy. I’m sure there will be water taxis if you want to enter by water otherwise it’s a short trip across the causeway to the Piazzale Roma. 
It’s easy for us to say having done the sail in a number of times but for us Venice is not the best port on Adriatic itineraries it would be a shame to miss the fabulous ports on the Dalmatian coast.

[Mrs Miggins]

On the Viking board this subject is discussed and some of the contributors are qualified mariners.  

 

Venice is wonderful, but there is certainly an argument for reducing overall tourism.  Cruise passengers do not necessarily spend much in the local tourist economy.  

[Riocca]

10 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

It works differently in Italy. It's very corrupt for a start and not in good financial health. Covid has done nothing to help. So whilst it makes perfect sense to many of us, sadly it doesn't happen that way there. Italy have been dithering for years over Venice. You'd think they'd have a plan, but they don't. 

 

I'll add that I absolutely love Italy, it's people and lifestyle, but there are seem deep rooted shortcomings that won't be easily solved. 

 

Phil 

Having worked with Italian companies in the past I’m well aware of the way things are done (or not done) always been frustrating. Having spent a lot of time on the side of the Giudecca the wash from the motor launches speeding by does far more damage than the cruise ships slowly moving by.

After the incident with MSC Opera the ban was inevitable, other than the sail in docking in Marghera won’t make a huge difference than docking in the main cruise terminal as you still have to access Venice via Piazzale Roma or by water taxi. The loss of docking at San Basilio is different.

[excitedofharpenden]

33 minutes ago, Riocca said:

The loss of sailing into Venice and docking in San Basilio, especially overnight, is a blow to any itinerary but I would think carefully before jumping ship. Venice is an iconic destination but visiting from a docking location in Marghera will be relatively easy. I’m sure there will be water taxis if you want to enter by water otherwise it’s a short trip across the causeway to the Piazzale Roma. 
It’s easy for us to say having done the sail in a number of times but for us Venice is not the best port on Adriatic itineraries it would be a shame to miss the fabulous ports on the Dalmatian coast.

I would absolutely agree with you here. I would definitely not cancel because of Venice. Wait and see what happens with the itinerary. My favourite part of the Med is the Dalmatian coast. I'm not sure which itineraries Vineyard View is doing, but one of them is Šibenek I think (photo below). One of the nicest sail in and sail outs I've done and a super place to visit. 

 

I'm a bit the same about Venice. I'm glad I've done it, but the place is a busy tourist trap that's been spoilt by people like us. 

 

Phil 

Edited July 15, 2021 by excitedofharpenden

[Riocca]

2 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I would absolutely agree with you here. I would definitely not cancel because of Venice. Wait and see what happens with the itinerary. My favourite part of the Med is the Dalmatian coast. I'm not sure which itineraries Vineyard View is doing, but one of them is Šibenek I think (photo below). One of the nicest sail in and sail outs I've done and a super place to visit. 

 

I'm a bit the same about Venice. I'm glad I've done it, but the place is a busy tourist trap that's been spoilt by people like us. 

 

Phil 

 

Yes the Dalmatian coastal scenery is magnificent it’s hard to say which is our favourite port. The great thing about Azamara is with smaller ships you get to see ports that the larger ships can’t get too, Dubrovnik unfortunately was suffering the same problems as Venice with an overload of tourists.

Of  course some sights are more unusual than others, this is what we encountered on Quest in 2018 sailing away from Šibenik, apologies to anyone easily offended.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Riocca

[excitedofharpenden]

The full moon cruise. 

 

Phil 

[Mrs Miggins]

We were due to dock at San Basilio with Azamara but sadly the MSC incident happened a couple of days before and we were therefore in the regular Cruise Terminal.  Sad that now we are unlikely to have the San Basilio experience.  We are due to end our B2B on Quest next April in Venice.  Wonder where we will end up ?

[Bloodaxe]

16 minutes ago, Mrs Miggins said:

We were due to dock at San Basilio with Azamara but sadly the MSC incident happened a couple of days before and we were therefore in the regular Cruise Terminal.  Sad that now we are unlikely to have the San Basilio experience.  We are due to end our B2B on Quest next April in Venice.  Wonder where we will end up ?

We did dock in San Basilio a few weeks later, the damaged MSC ship was still in the dock moored on the opposite side.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Bloodaxe

[Riocca]

16 minutes ago, Mrs Miggins said:

We were due to dock at San Basilio with Azamara but sadly the MSC incident happened a couple of days before and we were therefore in the regular Cruise Terminal.  Sad that now we are unlikely to have the San Basilio experience.  We are due to end our B2B on Quest next April in Venice.  Wonder where we will end up ?

San Basilio is such a great location I suppose it will still be available to the yacht size cruise ships but that’s going to come with a high price tag.

We are booked on Onwards maiden that terminates in Venice, from a personal point of view we hope that Marghera will be up and running as the alternatives would require a change of flight home.

[Ithikan]

3 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

The full moon cruise. 

 

Phil 

Under the new rules, this vessel could qualify for entrance to the Venetian lagoon.  Hope they wouldn't be tempted to repeat their party-trick as they pass the Doge's Palace...

[excitedofharpenden]

3 hours ago, Riocca said:

San Basilio is such a great location I suppose it will still be available to the yacht size cruise ships but that’s going to come with a high price tag.

We are booked on Onwards maiden that terminates in Venice, from a personal point of view we hope that Marghera will be up and running as the alternatives would require a change of flight home.

I remember the river boats (AMA et al) use it too. It was one of them that was hit in one of the incidents I remember. 

 

Phil 

[Vineyard View]

We have sailed into and out of San Basilio in the past and thoroughly loved the experience. Friends traveling with us on our upcoming trip have not, and do not have a lot of cruise experience. I really did sell them on the whole experience,  so I need to address this with them.
 

Does anyone think there is a chance that Italy will revise  the GT requirements if the cruise lines that have smaller ships, such as Azamara, attempt to work with them? 
 

From what you are saying, the docking in Marghera will not be all that inconvenient?  I am just not at all familiar with the logistics. That is my biggest concern, especially given Italy’s lack of preparation (and ways of doing things) with this announcement. 
 

Thank you for the recommendations to hold steady with our Onward itinerary. We have only sailed into Dubrovnik on the Croatia coast. Lovely, and will enjoy a repeat visit, but so so crowded. The pictures look really lovely. Guess we will keep an eye out for the moon cruise boys! Ha! 

[excitedofharpenden]

I was having a look at the Onward cruises, particularly the Adriatic one and the following to Greece. Dubrovnik may not be too bad. It looks like Onward will tender (which I prefer) and only one other ship in that's not too big. And the ship stays until 10pm. Kotor however looks horrid, even if Onward docks. There's another port that's been totally spoilt IMO. Definitely would book a tour out that day with a good local guide to beat the crowds if poss. 

 

Phil 

[MNgardens]

I think Trieste could be a good travel kick in the the pants for me and my travel companions and get us out of a 'famous cities in Europe' rut. We like to spend a few days in the departure port. We could either spend them in Venice, which I love but hate the crowds, or head up to Trieste and explore the city and that region. We could hop over to Slovenia, hit some mountain villages, or hit the coast in Croatia.  I am seeing an upside here.

 

Can anyone sell me on Ravenna and the region?

 

[excitedofharpenden]

4 minutes ago, MNgardens said:

I think Trieste could be a good travel kick in the the pants for me and my travel companions and get us out of a 'famous cities in Europe' rut. We like to spend a few days in the departure port. We could either spend them in Venice, which I love but hate the crowds, or head up to Trieste and explore the city and that region. We could hop over to Slovenia, hit some mountain villages, or hit the coast in Croatia.  I am seeing an upside here.

 

Can anyone sell me on Ravenna and the region?

 

I enjoyed Ravenna and the mosaics. We overnighted there on Journey and I heard that some weren't impressed with that because they said there wasn't enough to do, but I'm a car buff and took a tour out to the Ferrari museum at Maranello the next day and loved it. I remember the port area where we docked wasn't very attractive and we were bussed into Ravenna. Maybe 15 minutes. 

 

Phil 

[manc]

I remember the fairly long drive into Ravenna but buses were frequent. The mosaics are fantastic. The town is pleasant and easy to walk around. The restaurants were good and plenty of choice. It is well worth planning a visit before uou arrive as it is city often missed but with plenty of sights worth visiting. 

[MNgardens]

I am just brainstorming here-

Obviously not for turn around day, but is there a way that Venice could become a tender port? Maybe to the Lido and then passengers take the vaporettos to the other locations and tour boats could still pick up groups?

 

[Riocca]

2 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

We have sailed into and out of San Basilio in the past and thoroughly loved the experience. Friends traveling with us on our upcoming trip have not, and do not have a lot of cruise experience. I really did sell them on the whole experience,  so I need to address this with them.
 

Does anyone think there is a chance that Italy will revise  the GT requirements if the cruise lines that have smaller ships, such as Azamara, attempt to work with them? 
 

From what you are saying, the docking in Marghera will not be all that inconvenient?  I am just not at all familiar with the logistics. That is my biggest concern, especially given Italy’s lack of preparation (and ways of doing things) with this announcement. 
 

Thank you for the recommendations to hold steady with our Onward itinerary. We have only sailed into Dubrovnik on the Croatia coast. Lovely, and will enjoy a repeat visit, but so so crowded. The pictures look really lovely. Guess we will keep an eye out for the moon cruise boys! Ha! 

We have stayed in Mestre a few times and used the local bus service into Venice without any major problems, the service was frequent and the hotels sold the bus tickets. The bus station in Venice is at the Piazzale Roma same place the people mover takes you from the cruise terminal.

Will have to wait and see what plans, if any, materialise for Marghera the train line into Venice runs close by as does the main road to the causeway, but things don’t always work logically in Italy as has already been noted. It could be advantageous on change over days however as the traffic out of the port area in Venice can be a nightmare.

[nordski]

29 minutes ago, manc said:

I remember the fairly long drive into Ravenna but buses were frequent. The mosaics are fantastic. The town is pleasant and easy to walk around. The restaurants were good and plenty of choice. It is well worth planning a visit before uou arrive as it is city often missed but with plenty of sights worth visiting. 

I agree. Much of central Ravenna is closed to traffic, except for cyclists, and a delightful walk. The mosaics and their associated buildings are impressive. It is a city in which a guided tour provides much useful information and interpretation.
Azamara provided a free shuttle to the city centre and you can return to the ship and watch local anglers try their luck in the waters nearby.

[Riocca]

Going to be interesting to see how this actually plays out as this has rumbled on for a long time. We were in Venice in July 2012 on P&O’s Adonia, now of course Pursuit, having evening dinner ( Indian night) on the back deck when there was suddenly a flash mob supporting the cruise industry.

 

I know it’s always said that cruise passengers don’t spend much ashore in Venice but think how many cruises have change overs in Venice. Incoming passengers have probably funded a lot of the expansion of Venice airport, many passengers spend time pre & post cruise in Venice hotels. We nearly always have lunch in Venice as many others do, we’ve used water taxis and the ho-ho cruises. Don’t forget many of the ships that are now banned are actually built there!

Money always talks and if takings are down it might prompt a rethink, well we can always hope.

[Grandma Cruising]

3 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I remember the river boats (AMA et al) use it too. It was one of them that was hit in one of the incidents I remember. 

 

Phil 

My feeling is that the allowed size for docking in Venice was set to allow the river boats to dock there.

[ECCruise]

Speaking from someone who lives in a small town that is literally inundated with tourists far beyond our capacity and infrastructure, I can relate with the Venetians that are fed up.  Did they go too far in the limits?  Perhaps.  But I remember years ago when we met one of the leaders of the control tourism in Venice (not destroy it) movements there.

Funny thing was he owns the hotel in which we were staying.  And would be directly impacted by any decrease in tourism.  But in his words, it is "what is required for Venice to survive." 

[cruise47]

Can someone name the cruise ships that can sail into Venice ?