NCLH sues Florida over vaccine passport ban

[LvnCruisin]

This has probably already been answered, but why can't the solution be, "it's not where you sail from but where you bought your cruise from?" aka show proof at time of booking, Florida and Texas might have a change of heart when all of the bookings come from "elsewhere"? I for one have always agreed with "no shirt no shoes no service"

[ronrick1943]

1 hour ago, LvnCruisin said:

This has probably already been answered, but why can't the solution be, "it's not where you sail from but where you bought your cruise from?" aka show proof at time of booking, Florida and Texas might have a change of heart when all of the bookings come from "elsewhere"? I for one have always agreed with "no shirt no shoes no service"

😂super thinking…….

[crickette]

This is a different lawsuit, but the ruling is relevant to this thread.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25498-u-s-court-rules-for-cdc-in-desantis-cruise-lawsuit.html

[pingpong1]

17 hours ago, crickette said:

This is a different lawsuit, but the ruling is relevant to this thread.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25498-u-s-court-rules-for-cdc-in-desantis-cruise-lawsuit.html

So isn't this now a "Good Thing"  (at least in the view of most of us)!?.....  If I understand it correctly, the appeals court has now said that it's "Okay and legal" for NCLH (and other cruise lines) to verify proof of vaccination for crew and passengers, and that Florida/Texas/Alabama (the 3 states that were previously preventing that from happening by state laws) cannot prevent the cruise lines from requiring that documentation prior to boarding.

 

I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been more discussion about this.

[rallydave]

6 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

So isn't this now a "Good Thing"  (at least in the view of most of us)!?.....  If I understand it correctly, the appeals court has now said that it's "Okay and legal" for NCLH (and other cruise lines) to verify proof of vaccination for crew and passengers, and that Florida/Texas/Alabama (the 3 states that were previously preventing that from happening by state laws) cannot prevent the cruise lines from requiring that documentation prior to boarding.

 

I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been more discussion about this.

The law suit in question had nothing to do with asking or not asking for proof of vaccination. Florida sued CDC to stop the conditional sail order. The verdict leaves the conditional sail order in place and the Florida law to not ask for proof of vaccination in place as well. 
 

yes difficult to knuu is w which law suit or law is being talked about. 

[Pcardad]

22 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

So isn't this now a "Good Thing"  (at least in the view of most of us)!?.....  If I understand it correctly, the appeals court has now said that it's "Okay and legal" for NCLH (and other cruise lines) to verify proof of vaccination for crew and passengers, and that Florida/Texas/Alabama (the 3 states that were previously preventing that from happening by state laws) cannot prevent the cruise lines from requiring that documentation prior to boarding.

 

I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been more discussion about this.

I suspect most Regent passengers SUPPORT banning people without the Vax from setting foot on board...

[Grandmaanne7]

22 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

I suspect most Regent passengers SUPPORT banning people without the Vax from setting foot on board...

I certainly do.  In Ontario, Canada, we actually opened up somewhat recently so we were able to host a backyard event.  Not knowing who has been vaccinated and who has not made it very awkward and uncomfortable.  There were those that I knew had been fully vaccinated and I was quite at ease around them.  This was not the situation with those whose status was unknown to me.  I would not enjoy a cruise where I was always wondering who was at risk and feeling that I shouldn't be sitting next to people outside of my traveling party.  I fully support Regent's current requirements.

[pingpong1]

1 hour ago, rallydave said:

The law suit in question had nothing to do with asking or not asking for proof of vaccination. Florida sued CDC to stop the conditional sail order. The verdict leaves the conditional sail order in place and the Florida law to not ask for proof of vaccination in place as well. 
 

yes difficult to knuu is w which law suit or law is being talked about. 

Hi Dave - I thought the "Conditional Sail Order" (imposed by CDC) required vaccination of "X percentage of passengers"?  How can the cruise lines "comply" with that CDC requirement if they (the cruise lines) are no allowed to ask to see proof of vaccination?  Regards

[pingpong1]

From today's Wall Street Journal  "....The CDC's requirements allow ships to begin regular sailings without first conducting test cruises if they attest that 95% of crew members and passengers are fully vaccinated.  But Florida, as well as Texas and Alabama, which also have cruise ports, passed laws baring businesses from requiring "vaccine passports," or proof of vaccinations...."

 

"...Florida had sued U.S. health authorities to overturn a conditional-sailing order put in place by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in October.  Last month (June), U.S. District Judge Steven Merryday in Tampa, Fla,. sided with the state (Florida).  In his ruling, he said Florida was likely to prevail in its claim that the CDC exceeded its authority in issuing the conditional sailing order."

 

"A three-judge panel from the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals issued a temporary stay (of Judge Merryday's order)  at 11:50 p.m. Saturday, just minutes before the lower-court order (Judge Merryday's) would have taken effect.

 

So as it stands at the moment, the CDC's requirement (for 95% of crew members and passengers to be fully vaccinated).....remains in place.  So again, "Exactly how" - from a practical standpoint - can cruise lines abide by the CDC's Conditional Sailing Order/s...If they have no means of actually verifying passenger and crew "vaccination status"?  I would agree that this whole matter is not yet conclusively "settled".

 

There still needs to be a definitive ruling in Federal Court (which has not yet happened) that the CDC's jurisdiction over health requirements and passenger health screening protocols for the cruise industry is "pre-eminent" over individual state laws.

[rallydave]

Completely agree with the quandary Ping. Seems RCL and Carnival found a work around to the Florida order by allowing 2 classes of people on board.  They don't ask for proof but, if people don't voluntarily provide proof they become second class cruisers by requiring masks and only certain places they can go among other restrictions.  This way they can say how many people are vaccinated to make the 95% thus complying with CDC as well as Florida.

 

As I said, the ruling did nothing to change the Florida law so the conflict is real and affects NCLH as del rio will not cruise without 100% vaccinated and cannot use the RCL/CCL workaround.

 

As you said, both laws/rules are now still in effect (CDC and Florida) so both have to be complied with.  Nobody as yet to my knowledge has challenged the Florida law, at least not successfully so RCL and CCL can cruise from Florida as long as no more than 5% of the crew/passengers do not voluntarily show proof of vaccination.  And who knows what the cruise lines will do if over the 5% unvaccinated; cancel the cruise or throw off some of the people who failed to show proof of vaccination voluntarily????

 

Quite a quandary and your last paragraph is accurate although at least the two biggest cruise holding companies are complying with both CDC and the State of Florida so guess all of the NCLH ships will simmply have to stay out of Florida, Texas, etc.

[pingpong1]

1 hour ago, rallydave said:

Completely agree with the quandary Ping. Seems RCL and Carnival found a work around to the Florida order by allowing 2 classes of people on board.  They don't ask for proof but, if people don't voluntarily provide proof they become second class cruisers by requiring masks and only certain places they can go among other restrictions.  This way they can say how many people are vaccinated to make the 95% thus complying with CDC as well as Florida.

 

Quite a quandary and your last paragraph is accurate although at least the two biggest cruise holding companies are complying with both CDC and the State of Florida so guess all of the NCLH ships will simmply have to stay out of Florida, Texas, etc.

Dave...Yup!  😲  If it comes down to it (for our Dec Mariner Cruise)....Charleston, SC Doesn't sound like such a bad idea, If it means the difference between sailing or not sailing....Best Regards.

[Got2Cruise]

How does this “workaround” work? Do pax receive different color wrist bands or key cards? 
 

I can’t see this being enforced properly. They can’t even control chair hogs or those who save seats in the theatre. 

[mrlevin]

1 minute ago, Got2Cruise said:

How does this “workaround” work? Do pax receive different color wrist bands or key cards? 
 

I can’t see this being enforced properly. They can’t even control chair hogs or those who save seats in the theatre. 

If you were told you had to eat all your meals in La Verandah and could not go ashore independently and couldn't go to any lounges except pool bar would you actually sail?  If those are rules if and only if you don't show proof of vaccination do you think anyone would sail without voluntarily showing proof?

[rallydave]

3 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

How does this “workaround” work? Do pax receive different color wrist bands or key cards? 
 

I can’t see this being enforced properly. They can’t even control chair hogs or those who save seats in the theatre. 

Don't know and don't really care as won't be sailing either of those Holding Company ships .  Am guessing it's probably somewhat what you say and like you say managing disruptive passengers was a problem before the pandemic and with the pandemic, it will be much worse of a problem so they better have a way to enforce the rules.

[pingpong1]

4 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

How does this “workaround” work? Do pax receive different color wrist bands or key cards? 
 

I can’t see this being enforced properly. They can’t even control chair hogs or those who save seats in the theatre. 

The folks who have provided proof of vaccination prior to boarding, are given a a wristband and have the "run of the ship".  Those who do not, or cannot show proof of vaccination do NOT get a wristband and will be restricted, as Mr Levin describes.

[tripperva]

The vax is free, successful, proven safe and important to community safety. I agree with the posters who want their fellow pax vaccinated. Regent cruises are special. Inconsiderate folks can go elsewhere.

[Got2Cruise]

1 hour ago, mrlevin said:

If you were told you had to eat all your meals in La Verandah and could not go ashore independently and couldn't go to any lounges except pool bar would you actually sail?  If those are rules if and only if you don't show proof of vaccination do you think anyone would sail without voluntarily showing proof?

Me personally, no. But I don’t doubt for a second that some might think the rules don’t pertain to them and become belligerent and abusive towards crew members for attempting to enforce the rules. 
 

 

[jjs217]

17 hours ago, Got2Cruise said:

Me personally, no. But I don’t doubt for a second that some might think the rules don’t pertain to them and become belligerent and abusive towards crew members for attempting to enforce the rules. 
 

 

In that case, break out the short gang plank, and make those passengers take a long walk.  See ya - don't want to be ya.

[Jim B]

I just hope this all gets settled by our Dec 17th cruise. 

Already have airline tickets, hotels, rental cars, and one pre- cruise tour lined up.

Very difficult for us in Montana to just change our flights. Need to book them

very early, just to get them, and to make a change sometimes is impossible. 

[Got2Cruise]

1 hour ago, jjs217 said:

In that case, break out the short gang plank, and make those passengers take a long walk.  See ya - don't want to be ya.

lol. 

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

We are booked on Celebrity Edge on a one week sailing in the Retreat class. (Suite). August 7th. 
We prefer 100% vaccinated sailing, but this was acceptable to us. These were the rules. Minimum 95% vaccinated, maximum 5% not.
You may volunteer your original vaccine documents before boarding. If you do, you fall in the 95% category. If you won’t, you fall in the 5% group. Obviously, children under 16 fall in the 5%. Once the 5% quota is filled, the unvaccinated will be denied boarding. So, you are taking a chance when you  book and pay for the cruise. All crew members are vaccinated. 

If you are in the 5%, masks are required and there are separate sections for dining, shows etc. for you, even the children.  You must take special tours and cannot leave the ship in port to just do your own thing. Your room card is hole punched to indicate you are not vaccinated. Not a great way to enjoy a cruise. 
Also,if you are vaccinated, you are given a bracelet to indicate this  and that you do not need a mask and can be accommodated everywhere.
So far, the reports are that less than a handful of adult passengers have sailed without vaccination. Many say they are not booking  because of these tough restrictions. 
I hope I explained it correctly.. 

sheila

Edited July 20, 2021 by Bellaggio Cruisers

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

PS…still have our 7 Regent cruises booked. 
sheila

[pingpong1]

Great explanation, Sheila!  Thanks.  I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the few "unvaccinated" folks cruising on Celebrity under those circumstances!  😬  I just can't imagine why anyone would want to do that, pay the money, and have to deal with all those personal restrictions!?  Regards..

[Pudgesmom]

Do you have concerns that shore excursions or ports will be limited or canceled due to unvaccinated passengers?

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

14 hours ago, Pudgesmom said:

Do you have concerns that shore excursions or ports will be limited or canceled due to unvaccinated passengers?

I don’t think so….however, we were just planning to relax, dine and enjoy the entertainment. We are not planning to take any tours but may get off the ship and wander a bit, where allowed. 
Been reading the reviews on the Celebrity CC. Folks really seem to be enjoying themselves. About 50% capacity. In most cases arrival at the pier to arriving onboard took less than 1/2 hour.