Is Royal Caribbean trying to get all Canadians to cancel their planned cruises?

[Russ Lomas]

I just posted this in the Canadian group, but I would also like it here as well since I know that all members do not read that other group.  This information was shared with me from another thread here but may get overlooked by many.

 

Based on what is now posted on the RCCL website, you must have both of your vaccines (regardless of type) less than 42 days apart, otherwise you are considered unvaccinated by RCCL rules.  I do not think there are any (or VERY few Canadians) who were vaccinated less than 42 days apart due to supply shortages.

 

From the RCCL website below:

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days.

 

If you look at the CDC website, this is their recommendation:

You should get your second shot as close to the recommended 3-week or 4-week interval as possible. However, your second dose may be given up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose, if necessary. You should not get the second dose early. There is currently limited information on the effectiveness of receiving your second shot earlier than recommended or later than 6 weeks after the first shot.

 

That will basically mean all Canadians are now considered UNVACCINATED according to the new info on the RCCL site.  This really screws us fully vaccinated Canadians who got two of the same vaccine as quick as our government permitted us to do so.

 

Our travel agent has reached out to RCCL for clarification, but I think Mr. Bayley's email needs to be flooded to get them to reverse this decision.

 

mbayley@rccl.com

[robinbird62]

This will be the same for the majority of UK citizens as our government moved the goal posts. I am an healthcare worker and ours was I really at 3 weeks but changed to 11-12 weeks. Now they are offering vaccines at 8 weeks at the earliest. 

[DirtyDawg]

Chill, it's Saturday, by Monday they might change the rules again. And then the following week, something completely different. And the following week ...

 

Looks like we'll be experiencing some rough seas until this mess gets resolved. 

[Mapleleafforever]

I didn't even know there was a Canadian board on here. 

[kearney]

Unfortunately the protocol used in Canada and UK was not the one that got vaccines emergency use authorization... so considered essentially unproven from an FDA perspective. 

[Mark_UK]

New studies showing that 8 weeks is in fact an optimal dose interval. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/delay-second-dose-pfizer-covid-coronavirus-vaccine-immune-response-study-2021-7

[DHLuCruise]

1 minute ago, Mark_UK said:

New studies showing that 8 weeks is in fact an optimal dose interval. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/delay-second-dose-pfizer-covid-coronavirus-vaccine-immune-response-study-2021-7

Our numbers in Canada are excellent. Numbers don't lie. I understand they are following the FDA in this. I get it. We have a cruise in December and hope it gets resolved by then (multiple Moderna doses 63 d apart).

[twangster]

It's not an anti-Canadian policy.  The policy doesn't even mention Canada.  

 

I have family in Canada who ended up with mixed vaccines because that's all they could get at the time.  I have other family in Canada who did get two Pfizer shots.  

 

As more studies complete such as the one that was announced a few days ago they'll be able to adjust protocols.  This is an evolving situation.  It will change often. 

 

Everyone in my family has been frustrated with Canada's handling of the vaccine rollout.  Until recently mixing vaccine types wasn't studied extensively.  As new studies become accepted by the scientific community policies can be updated to suit.  

 

My double Pfizer friends and family from Canada can sail just like I can.    There is no secret agenda against Canadians.  They are following the science and they will continue to adjust policies based on the science, not misinformation campaigns trying to shame them for unfairly treating Canadians.   

[DHLuCruise]

@twangster the mixed doses is a challenge. But people who got the same doses are incredibly impacted as well. Most of canada, UK and large parts of Europe gave their doses outside the 42 day range because of supply challenges. 

 

As an aside..  Studies have clearly shown that dose intervals at the 60 plus range produce improved results.

 

People very much have a right to be annoyed with this. At the same time I understand what you are saying.

Edited July 24, 2021 by DHLuCruise

[Ourusualbeach]

15 minutes ago, twangster said:

My double Pfizer friends and family from Canada can sail just like I can.

Not according to the most recent guidelines released by Royal.  Doses from the same manufacturer must meet the manufactures guidelines with respect to the dosing intervals which is generally 28-42 days between doses.  Very few Canadians had their second shot in 42 days or less from their first shot.

 

While I agree that at some point in the future this will be changed it doesn't do Canadians who are sailing in the near term as the OP is any good.

[twangster]

10 minutes ago, DHLuCruise said:

@twangster the mixed doses is a challenge. But people who got the same doses are incredibly impacted as well. Most of canada, UK and large parts of Europe gave their doses outside the 42 day range because of supply challenges.  Studies have clearly shown that dose intervals at the 60 plus range produce improved results.

 

People very much have a right to be annoyed with this. At the same time I understand what you are saying.

 

Canada's vaccine rollout was not ideal resulting in the extended period between shots.

 

The original studies did not model these variations from manufacturer guidance and testing for the time between shots.  

 

I completely understand the frustration with Canada's rollout of vaccines.  That's not Royal Caribbean's doing.  All they can do is follow the studies that were based on following the recommended guidance until new studies are accepted.

 

Hopefully new studies will continue to provide new information that can be used to adjust policies.   I believe it will.  Until that occurs ranting misinformation on social media is not the solution or helpful. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by twangster

[DHLuCruise]

Removing post. Misunderstood twangsters note referring to the title of the thread. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by DHLuCruise
Misunderstanding of post

[twangster]

18 minutes ago, DHLuCruise said:

Are you referring to me ranting misinformation? I never said they have it in for canadians..

 

I'm simply saying the impact of the policy on NOT JUST CANADA but other countries as well. 

 

Not you.  

 

Royal is following CDC guidance for US ports but not for other ports.  This is on the CDC.

 

• For Cruises Departing from Ports Outside of the U.S.
• For cruises departing from ports outside of the U.S., we will accept guests who are vaccinated with a mixed regimen consisting of 2 shots of the following manufacturer combinations: Pfizer and Moderna, or AstraZeneca with either Pfizer or Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days for mixes of Pfizer and Moderna, and separated by at least 4 weeks and not more than 12 weeks for combinations of AstraZeneca with Pfizer or Moderna.
• Mixed vaccines may not be accepted at all ports of call. Guests who are vaccinated with a mixed series may not be allowed to go ashore at these ports, or may need to undergo additional testing if they wish to go ashore.

 

Royal isn't banning mixed vaccines guests from Florida.  You just won't be recognized as vaccinated because the science and the CDC up to this point doesn't either.   

 

• Note for Guests Departing from Florida Ports
• For sailings departing from Florida, we strongly recommend being fully vaccinated to sail. Guests departing from Florida that find their vaccination regimen does not satisfy CDC guidelines for U.S. departures are permitted to sail, but will be considered unvaccinated, and must meet all requirements for unvaccinated guests including testing at their own expense, insurance requirements, and all onboard protocols. 

 

So why blame Royal Caribbean when it's US CDC guidelines they are required to follow for US ports?

 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by twangster

[NSnewcruiser]

Mixed Vaccines from Different Manufacturers

We understand some guests may have been vaccinated with doses from two different vaccine manufacturers. Whether these are accepted depends on the mix of manufacturers and where you are sailing from.  

For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days.

We do not accept 1 shot of an mRNA vaccine (e.g., Pfizer or Moderna) mixed with 1 shot of a viral vector vaccine (e.g., AstraZeneca). 

Mixed vaccines may not be accepted at all ports of call. Guests who are vaccinated with a mixed series may need to undergo additional testing at embarkation if they wish to go ashore in these ports.

What vaccines are accepted?

 

Royal Caribbean accepts vaccines that are fully approved or authorized for emergency use by the U.S. FDA or the World Health Organization. All doses of your vaccine should be from the same manufacturer and of the same type (e.g. mRNA), in the required number of doses to be considered fully administered (e.g. 2 shots of Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, etc., or 1 shot of Johnson & Johnson). A guest is considered fully vaccinated 14 days after their vaccine series is completed.

 

 

I don't see any mention of a timeline if you got the same vaccine shot. Seems the 28-42 days timeline is only mentioned for mixing vaccines.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by NSnewcruiser

[brillohead]

If I were a Canadian affected by all of this, I'd be more concerned with why my government didn't manage the vaccine distribution properly in the first place.

My local health department is run by some rinky dink hicks, but every day that they did first vaccines, they set aside the same number of vaccines and dated it for three weeks in the future (Pfizer here).  That way even if they didn't get a shipment down the road, they already had the second doses set aside for the people who had gotten the first shot (and those people also had a preset appointment for three weeks in the future).

 

 

[CruisesOnMyMind]

16 minutes ago, NSnewcruiser said:

Mixed Vaccines from Different Manufacturers

We understand some guests may have been vaccinated with doses from two different vaccine manufacturers. Whether these are accepted depends on the mix of manufacturers and where you are sailing from.  

For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days.

We do not accept 1 shot of an mRNA vaccine (e.g., Pfizer or Moderna) mixed with 1 shot of a viral vector vaccine (e.g., AstraZeneca). 

Mixed vaccines may not be accepted at all ports of call. Guests who are vaccinated with a mixed series may need to undergo additional testing at embarkation if they wish to go ashore in these ports.

What vaccines are accepted?

 

Royal Caribbean accepts vaccines that are fully approved or authorized for emergency use by the U.S. FDA or the World Health Organization. All doses of your vaccine should be from the same manufacturer and of the same type (e.g. mRNA), in the required number of doses to be considered fully administered (e.g. 2 shots of Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, etc., or 1 shot of Johnson & Johnson). A guest is considered fully vaccinated 14 days after their vaccine series is completed.

 

 

I don't see any mention of a timeline if you got the same vaccine shot. Seems the 28-42 days timeline is only mentioned for mixing vaccines.

 

I agree. I was looking for the same timeline for same vaccine and can not find a reference.

 

 

 

[Ourusualbeach]

42 minutes ago, NSnewcruiser said:

I don't see any mention of a timeline if you got the same vaccine shot. Seems the 28-42 days timeline is only mentioned for mixing vaccines.

The response from a supervisor was posted in another vaccine thread earlier.

 

I also asked today and was told that it is implied since the double dose still must follow Vaccine makers originally issued protocols.

 

With the combining of doses they clarified the acceptable times since no guidance was ever given

[Ourusualbeach]

31 minutes ago, brillohead said:

If I were a Canadian affected by all of this, I'd be more concerned with why my government didn't manage the vaccine distribution properly in the first place.

We didn't have the vaccines to distribute so they made the decision to get as many people done with the first dose and somewhat protected instead of following the recommended dosage schedule and leaving millions unprotected for a longer period.  

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

So why blame Royal Caribbean when it's US CDC guidelines they are required to follow for US ports?

With the recent ruling the CDC guidelines are now a suggestion.  Royal does have some leeway to change the guidelines for Florida sailings.

[dswallow]

9 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

With the recent ruling the CDC guidelines are now a suggestion.  Royal does have some leeway to change the guidelines for Florida sailings.

 

Really, only to the extent they're willing to then be subject to the draconian mask rules.

 

[twangster]

17 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

With the recent ruling the CDC guidelines are now a suggestion.  Royal does have some leeway to change the guidelines for Florida sailings.

 

I don't think we are done with the CDC yet as much as I wish that wasn't the case.

 

When the judge in Tampa first announced his action on the injunction the cruise lines wisely stayed the course.  This is no different.  

[loman]

Wow , i qualify as i got my first Pfizer shot april 12 th and managed to get my second one June 15th .

Unfortunately i have no desire to cruise this year . 

By the time i get around to it none of this will matter anymore.

[A&L_Ont]

Heck, the only individuals in Canada who be would be able to go would be seniors in LTC who didn’t have a delay in doses, the first in healthcare who got both before the timeline change which is just a handful of people, kids between 12-17, and anyone who got their first shot around June 1st. The key in their case would be getting the same of both shots. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[Ourusualbeach]

39 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

I don't think we are done with the CDC yet as much as I wish that wasn't the case.

 

When the judge in Tampa first announced his action on the injunction the cruise lines wisely stayed the course.  This is no different.  

I agree that this isn't over and is what will most likely delay any changes.  Better to wait until they are sure that what, if anything they change will stick.

[twangster]

Here's the thing.  The virus isn't over.  We are not back to normal.  Not even close.

 

Cruising during the restart isn't going to work for everyone in every situation.  

 

It's all the cruise lines can do to restart operations at this time.  Between the US federal government and the state of Florida, both are doing their best to make it more difficult than it has to be.   

 

Throw in some unnecessary border and cruise ship restrictions by the Canadian government and it's a perfect storm to screw up some cruises in North America for some.

 

We have our governments to blame and the virus itself.