How early to schedule flights leaving Athens?

[MaynardsMom]

We're scheduled for the Greek Odyssey in December.  We had flights chosen with Delta, using Air Plus.  All were through JFK with reasonable time on the return for customs.   We've had a few minor changes along the way until yesterday, when our TA sent us the latest change.  All our flights were changed completely including moving to other airlines.  I checked Delta's website and our original flights no longer exist.  The new schedule take us through Munich and then directly into Charlotte and is fine except for one thing - it has us leaving Athens at 8:30 a.m.  I have no idea what time our ship gets into port and no idea if this is at all doable.  Can any of you who have flown out of Athens advise?   

 

Also, if we were to miss the flight, would Viking put us up until the next day?  Our other choices that day all seem to be flights that would have spending the night in Munich or London,  or giving us 3 stops and an hour or so to get through customs and change planes when we do get to the US. 

 

Thanks.  

[MarkTapley]

4 hours ago, MaynardsMom said:

The new schedule take us through Munich and then directly into Charlotte and is fine except for one thing - it has us leaving Athens at 8:30 a.m.  I have no idea what time our ship gets into port and no idea if this is at all doable.  Can any of you who have flown out of Athens advise? 

The Guest Statement you received from Viking will state what time the ship docks at Piraeus.  It will also contain a declaration of the earliest time allowed for your departure flight out of ATH.  Here’s what that declaration looked like for our recent cruise around Iceland:

 

“Departure:

Departure flights out of Reykjavik, Iceland (KEF) must depart no earlier than 9:00 AM on the day of August 21, 2021.”

[MaynardsMom]

Thanks for your help!  I never went beyond page 2 of Guest Statement.  Not one of my brightest moves and very unlike me since I'm pretty compulsive about reading everything when we travel. 

 

Now I have reviewed it and  find that it does not say what time to book departures.  It only says that disembarkation is at 3:00 a.m.   I'm going assume that if 3 a.m. is disembarkation, we can make an 8 a.m. flight.  What a LONG day that is going to be!  

[hersheyhughes]

Out cruise ends on Nov 15th and we are on a 6:15 am flight to Paris and we get into Raleigh at 2:10 pm. They just ticketed our flights today so I am hoping no more changes. We are flying Air France on the return. We have had them change 3 times and each time Viking has accommodated my requests.

Good luck with your flights.

Kimberly

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

I hate to think how early you guys will have to wake up to get on flights at 6 or 8 AM.   We had 9:30 AM flights from Reykjavik and had to meet at 5 AM to go get our luggage, get on a coach, ride the 50 minutes to the airport, and navigate long lines at the airport.  But maybe Piraeus/Athens & Paris won't be as bad....   

Edited August 25, 2021 by IWantToLiveOverTheSea
forgot to "follow" thread

[greydog]

On 8/24/2021 at 4:56 PM, MaynardsMom said:

Now I have reviewed it and  find that it does not say what time to book departures.  It only says that disembarkation is at 3:00 a.m.   I'm going assume that if 3 a.m. is disembarkation, we can make an 8 a.m. flight.  What a LONG day that is going to be!  

I have Dec.2021 booked from Athens.  V. air+ agent said their rules are not book earlier than 8am airport departure. 

The airport is approx. an hour coach trip and some report customs clearance delays are not rare - hit or miss - with Covid issues not helping.

If you miss your flight its recommended to call the V. air service number ASAP for them to reroute you.

GOOD LUCK

[Twitchly]

Or you could spend a night in Athens after the cruise? 
 

We’re doing a post-cruise extension there (Cities of Antiquity and the Holy Land cruise), and our flight leaves Athens at a grisly 6 am. Unless Delta changes everything yet again, of course.  

Edited August 26, 2021 by Twitchly

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, greydog said:

If you miss your flight its recommended to call the V. air service number ASAP for them to reroute you.

 

That's the third thing you should do.

 

The first is to have researched alternatives BEFORE you leave home, and to have those accessible at the airport.

 

The second is to get in line to have the operating airline rebook you on the spot.  They are the ones with the access to inventory and rebooking process.

 

Calling Viking (or any cruiseline) will only introduce an additional layer to the process, as they will have to contact and work with the operating carrier.  They can't make a rebook on their own, so they are only duplicating what you might accomplish at the airport.

 

The one thing that cruiseline air departments can help with is if you have a bulk/consolidator ticket that has restrictions on being endorsed to another carrier or onto another routing.  Those generally require the consent of the consolidator desk at the airline, so you want to be doing the call in parallel with actually standing in line at the airport.  And go with whichever method gives you a solution first.

 

Parallel tasking (phone and in person) is the way to go.  Don't just rely on the cruiseline to fix your problem - it might, but it may also do it too late for an earlier/better option available at the desk.

 

[MaynardsMom]

2 hours ago, greydog said:

I have Dec.2021 booked from Athens.  V. air+ agent said their rules are not book earlier than 8am airport departure. 

The airport is approx. an hour coach trip and some report customs clearance delays are not rare - hit or miss - with Covid issues not helping.

If you miss your flight its recommended to call the V. air service number ASAP for them to reroute you.

GOOD LUCK

Thanks.  Unfortunately, there are no alternative 1 stop flights which is just the issue.  If there were, we'd be booking a later flight.  Other combos leave us overnight in London, Munich or some other European city.  We'd end up traveling over 24 hours -  it would almost take us longer to get home from Athens than it took from Johannesburg!  There is a 12:55 flight to Dulles, but connections time in Dulles is 1 hour - no way we can make it through customs and onto another flight in that time.  I'm hoping as time draws closer, we will have more choices.

[FlyerTalker]

36 minutes ago, MaynardsMom said:

Thanks.  Unfortunately, there are no alternative 1 stop flights which is just the issue.  If there were, we'd be booking a later flight.  Other combos leave us overnight in London, Munich or some other European city.  We'd end up traveling over 24 hours -  it would almost take us longer to get home from Athens than it took from Johannesburg!  There is a 12:55 flight to Dulles, but connections time in Dulles is 1 hour - no way we can make it through customs and onto another flight in that time.  I'm hoping as time draws closer, we will have more choices.

 

Since you don't provide actual dates or flights, some of this is general info for December.

 

Time to clarify this.  You are on the last ONE-STOP itinerary that doesn't have a forced overnight.

 

There are a goodly number of two-stop itineraries that leave later than 8:30 in the morning, and that don't involve forced overnights.  Guess those aren't acceptable to you.  So you're stuck with your 8:30 departure.

 

Also, that 12:55 flight to IAD is actually a LH connection via MUC, so it's not a one-stop itinerary to CLT.

[greydog]

12 hours ago, MaynardsMom said:

Thanks.  Unfortunately, there are no alternative 1 stop flights which is just the issue.  If there were, we'd be booking a later flight.  Other combos leave us overnight in London, Munich or some other European city.  We'd end up traveling over 24 hours -  it would almost take us longer to get home from Athens than it took from Johannesburg!  There is a 12:55 flight to Dulles, but connections time in Dulles is 1 hour - no way we can make it through customs and onto another flight in that time.  I'm hoping as time draws closer, we will have more choices.

Given the unpleasant air travel schedule you are describing, consider the V. Air+ custom fee AND paying $100 deviation/stopoff fee to break up the return trip into 2 convenient sections.  May need out-of-pocket night at intermediate airport hotel but that may be more creature-comfort outcome as part of overall vaca experience.  Pointing out the bad return itinerary to air agent MIGHT get deviation fee waived.  Pushing the envelope on early departure, if missed, could lead to even greater time problems.

 

FYI a few major airports have 'in airport' inside TSA hotels (I'm considering 1 in Seoul for Australia trip).  Air agent may be able to factor that in if you offer it as acceptable at your expense.  My scanning of the V. air rules indicates they try for reasonable air itinerary but do not offer to cover intermediate hotel stay. 

FWIW I'm staying over in ATH which allowed V. air agent to consider using some 6-7am departures that next day.  Those early departures may give you better flight connections.

GOOD LUCK

[MaynardsMom]

4 hours ago, greydog said:

Given the unpleasant air travel schedule you are describing, consider the V. Air+ custom fee AND paying $100 deviation/stopoff fee to break up the return trip into 2 convenient sections.  May need out-of-pocket night at intermediate airport hotel but that may be more creature-comfort outcome as part of overall vaca experience.  Pointing out the bad return itinerary to air agent MIGHT get deviation fee waived.  Pushing the envelope on early departure, if missed, could lead to even greater time problems.

 

FYI a few major airports have 'in airport' inside TSA hotels (I'm considering 1 in Seoul for Australia trip).  Air agent may be able to factor that in if you offer it as acceptable at your expense.  My scanning of the V. air rules indicates they try for reasonable air itinerary but do not offer to cover intermediate hotel stay. 

FWIW I'm staying over in ATH which allowed V. air agent to consider using some 6-7am departures that next day.  Those early departures may give you better flight connections.

GOOD LUCK

Thanks, that gives me some other options besides choosing among flight itineraries for which travel time starts with 24 hours and goes up!  We are using Air Plus and all was good until Delta changed its flights  and Viking moved us.  My question was posed in order to get information so we could decide whether we needed to leave things be or seek another option, even if the options were not our first choice.   Ideally we could take either of the two later flights that would get us to Charlotte that same day but I am not comfortable with the relatively short layover time in the US airports (either Newark or Dulles)  where would have to go through Customs.  2 hours and under just seems like we'd be cutting it awfully close.  

[greydog]

48 minutes ago, MaynardsMom said:

 Ideally we could take either of the two later flights that would get us to Charlotte that same day but I am not comfortable with the relatively short layover time in the US airports (either Newark or Dulles)  where would have to go through Customs.  2 hours and under just seems like we'd be cutting it awfully close.  

Are you on Dec. 12 2021 Grk-Ody like we are?

 

If you have USA Global Entry that should 'grease the wheels' timewise with Customs.  

 

Alternatively - get the CBP Mobile Passport app, free download.  This bypasses a common source of customs delay, i.e. line for a kiosk to use it to fill out the customs declaration.  You do your declaration in the app - then we just waived the completed app entry at CBP officials and moved passed the other long lines to the exit line. 

 

You may be able to find customs time performance history for EWR, IAD on the web.  GOOD LUCK

[MaynardsMom]

14 hours ago, greydog said:

Are you on Dec. 12 2021 Grk-Ody like we are?

 

If you have USA Global Entry that should 'grease the wheels' timewise with Customs.  

 

You may be able to find customs time performance history for EWR, IAD on the web.  GOOD LUCK

We're on the one before that on Dec. 2. 

 

We do have Global Entry and it does grease the wheels substantially. I've been researching customs times v. layover times and I find that airlines base layovers on a best case scenario.  No checked luggage, no Custom glitches (not short staffed or something like that) and no flight delays.  We'll see - maybe we'll just choose the one though Dulles and take our chances - overnight in DC isn't a bad option and plenty of outgoing flights the next day.  

 

I appreciate your info and I know all will be fine.  I'm a planner and a nervous traveler and so I want thing under control and as smooth as I can make them.  Sometimes you do the best you can and then you just have to step back and let things happen. I think I need to go with that plan for this cruise 🙂 

[greydog]

4 minutes ago, MaynardsMom said:

We're on the one before that on Dec. 2. We do have Global Entry and it does grease the wheels substantially.

Good to hear GE helps. We just got ours in Apr. and have not yet experienced international travel with it.

We chose V's $999 ea. upcharge for Prem-Econ seats for our Dec.12 trip (ATL hometown, used $ from 125% FCC).  Fewer flight choices - ended up with Lufthansa thru FRA with 2hr connect.

 

FYI. From what I was told, you can add P-E upcharge later (if capacity still available) at the rate offered when you booked the cruise.  Bon voyage

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, MaynardsMom said:

 

I find that airlines base layovers on a best case scenario.  No checked luggage, no Custom glitches (not short staffed or something like that) and no flight delays. 

 

Incorrect.

 

First off, every connection stands independently against what is known as MCT - Minimum Connect Time.  And MCT is not a "best case scenario", but the time that is deemed to be appropriate for the vast preponderance of all connections.  Once MCT has been determined, then airlines will tend to offer you the flights with the shortest connection.

 

Here's a decent, though incomplete, description on MCT.

 

http://www.connectionreview.com/blog/what-is-minimum-connection-time-14

 

It would make for an impossible system if MCT was to factor in random flight delays - connections would stretch into 4 and 5 hour affairs.

 

Lots more can be discussed about flight scheduling, including banking, rolling hubs, crew availability, demand patterns and more, but we won't get into that here.  Suffice to say, your assumption about not considering operational factors is just wrong.

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, greydog said:

We chose V's $999 ea. upcharge for Prem-Econ seats for our Dec.12 trip (ATL hometown, used $ from 125% FCC).  Fewer flight choices - ended up with Lufthansa thru FRA with 2hr connect.

 

Hope that you checked this all out compared to buying from the airline.  There are some smoking good deals on one-way PE across the Atlantic.  I have an upcoming trip to Europe and the difference between coach and PE was only $180.  And this is genuine PE, not the "plus" product you find with merely a bit more seat pitch.

 

 

[greydog]

17 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Hope that you checked this all out compared to buying from the airline.  There are some smoking good deals on one-way PE across the Atlantic.  I have an upcoming trip to Europe and the difference between coach and PE was only $180.  And this is genuine PE, not the "plus" product you find with merely a bit more seat pitch.

Thanks for thoughts.  Our one experience SEAT-WISE was that typical PE with usual $ markup was not worth the extra $ over cheaper Delta Comfort+.  V's P-E add-on for our Jun. 2022 Bud-AMS trip was $799 rd-trip (on top of 'free' econ air pricing) but we'll compare to Comf.+ $.  My limited experience with P-E shows a lot fewer flt choices equipped for P-E.  Nice 'first world' issue to deal with. 😉

[FlyerTalker]

ITA Matrix allows for searches of PE, so it would filter out flights that don't offer that product.  Just a tip.

[Twitchly]

We will take Delta’s premium select for the first time next winter. (Assuming Delta doesn’t change us to a flight that doesn’t offer it … in which case I wonder how that works, if they refund the difference or you lose the money or what?) This is on our own, no Viking Air. It’s the closest we’re likely to get to first class on an international flight. It was $299 over comfort plus (as opposed to $1300 extra per person for first). We both detest flying, so we figure anything we can do to improve the experience has to help. Guess we’ll find out if it’s worth it to us.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Twitchly

[dcl999]

We upgraded to premium select (best category on plane) for our delta flight from Boston to Reykjavik. It was the traditional domestic first class. We couldn’t get the upgrade for the return flight. 

[Twitchly]

9 hours ago, dcl999 said:

We upgraded to premium select (best category on plane) for our delta flight from Boston to Reykjavik. It was the traditional domestic first class. We couldn’t get the upgrade for the return flight. 

What did you think of it? Worth the upgrade?

[greydog]

2 hours ago, Twitchly said:

What did you think of it? Worth the upgrade?

Hi - you can go on Youtube and look for 'Delta Premium Select review" to watch videos.

 

We do Prem Select if extra price only a few $00.   On 16-hr flt from LAX to Australia it's $2,500 extra pp. so we likely will live with Comfort+

 

Prem Select does not include Delta airport lounge access.

Edited September 20, 2021 by greydog

[FlyerTalker]

And remember that ANY class of service on any airline can vary between the different aircraft - you can get a different product on a 767 vs 330 vs 350 vs 321.  Don't just assume what you see in one place is what you get elsewhere.

[PasadenaDave]

FlyerTalker you are so right.  My wife and I flew American LAX to Reagan National in July.  We had and still have an abundance of miles to use up so we opted for First Class.  Absolutely the worst First Class experience ever.  It wasn’t even Covid-19 related, it was the airframe.  We found that our last flight coach from LAX to Paris in 2018 had a superior experience than this recent one.

my best experience was Boston to LAX first class upgrade on a new (10th) flight of a 757 or 767 in the early 90’s…hot fudge sundaes