Canadian travel vaccine passport certificate to be unveiled “in the coming months, or a year”.

[K_e_short]

1 hour ago, lots-of-km2 said:

Easy to forge, unfortunately.  And not registered in a central database. And easy to misplace (which I have done). 

 

As a reminder in Ontario our documents can be forged. Both the ones emailed to us and the ones we download from the Ontario website (with the watermark).

It is a unprotected PDF.

 

In the States there is a black market for vaccination cards, specifically for those wanting to cruise.

 

[lots-of-km2]

4 hours ago, K_e_short said:

In the States there is a black market for vaccination cards, specifically for those wanting to cruise.

Yikes.  That's worrisome. 

[middlehaitch]

I’ve just downloaded my BC digital vaccine card. A QR code. 

It is supposed to come into effect on the 13/09 for BC use, not international (obviously as that should be GOC). 

 

We have to show it, and a piece of gov id when entering the ‘restricted’ venues. 

 

Cheers, h. 

[3Shelaghs]

On 9/7/2021 at 9:20 AM, Fouremco said:

LOL. Many years retired, but still with a finger on the pulse. 😊

Yes... my cousins say that too....lol. Hope you didn't meet up with the Phoenix fiasco.....lol

[maryann2]

8 hours ago, middlehaitch said:

I’ve just downloaded my BC digital vaccine card. A QR code. 

It is supposed to come into effect on the 13/09 for BC use, not international (obviously as that should be GOC). 

 

We have to show it, and a piece of gov id when entering the ‘restricted’ venues. 

 

Cheers, h. 

Yes did mine last night too.

[LeDemonBlond]

This should not be hard. My understanding that even in my province, they  would not hold back sharing covid vaccine data with the federal govt if people approved of it. It should be a federal matter as when we travel, we have to show prove to other countries we are legit based on our passport.

Here are the steps:

 

1. The province allows you to approve of your covid immunization data with the Feds. 

 

2. The feds take the data and provide some kind of official document (similar to a passport) that indicates you have the shots.  I suspect you have to pay a fee for this document .  Like a passport, it should be difficult to replicate. 

 

3. This document is recognized by countries as we would accept other countries similar document. 

 

Easy Peasy, lemon Squeezy.   

 

This should not take a year. That is nuts.   Most people who travel want this type of document now and I suspect most fellow Canadians would be ok passing this data onto the feds. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by LeDemonBlond

[lots-of-km2]

8 hours ago, LeDemonBlond said:

Easy Peasy, lemon Squeezy.   

 

This should not take a year. That is nuts. 

 

Your plan is perfect.

 

Any hesitant, excuse-making provincial premiers should be badgered and excoriated 24/7. 

[Britchip]

2 hours ago, lots-of-km2 said:

 

Your plan is perfect.

 

Any hesitant, excuse-making provincial premiers should be badgered and excoriated 24/7. 

I can name at least one

[DirtyDawg]

13 hours ago, LeDemonBlond said:

3. This document is recognized by countries as we would accept other countries similar document. 

 

Easy Peasy, lemon Squeezy.   

 

This should not take a year. That is nuts.   Most people who travel want this type of document now and I suspect most fellow Canadians would be ok passing this data onto the feds. 

We are talking about international negotiations and getting an international agreement on what will be acceptable for international travel for the vast majority of the countries on the planet. How long did Brexit take? How long were the Doha round of WTO negotiations? Neither was Easy Peasy, Lemon, Squeezy. Brexit took over three years too complete and it was only between Britain and the EU. Doha finally failed after 16 years of negotiations. This is a journey of a thousand miles and we might be up to step  number 5 right now. 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[lots-of-km2]

3 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

We are talking about international negotiations and getting an international agreement on what will be acceptable for international travel for the vast majority of the countries on the planet. 

Where there's a will (and a compelling need), there's a way.   And there's a huge difference in scope and complexity between this singular situation/task and the very hairy Brexit and WTO variables, issues, interests and negotiations. 

 

The scope of information needed for what is essentially a digital inoculation card is very focused, and can be set by the WHO. 

 

As long as the Government of Canada can give us something official, tamper-proof, hard to forge, containing the info that WHO wants --  and easily readable by foreign border officials -- there'd be no justifiable reason for this to turn into an international cluster-----k.

 

Call me naive/optimistic.  

Edited September 9, 2021 by lots-of-km2

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, lots-of-km2 said:

As long as the Government of Canada can give us something official, tamper-proof, hard to forge, containing the info that WHO wants

I don't want to be a naysayer but who really cares what the WHO wants?  Even now, Canada and the US can't agree on what fully vaccinated means.  Just think of all the national priorities and politics at work around the world and it's pretty clear there is a tough road ahead on digital proof of full vaccination and boosters if need be.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, lots-of-km2 said:

Where there's a will (and a compelling need), there's a way.   And there's a huge difference in scope and complexity between this singular situation/task and the very hairy Brexit and WTO variables, issues, interests and negotiations. 

 

The scope of information needed for what is essentially a digital inoculation card is very focused, and can be set by the WHO. 

 

As long as the Government of Canada can give us something official, tamper-proof, hard to forge, containing the info that WHO wants --  and easily readable by foreign border officials -- there'd be no justifiable reason for this to turn into an international cluster-----k.

 

Call me naive/optimistic.  

 

The EU started work on theirs around April 2020. It only became fully operational July of this year. The EU is a relatively small collection of like minded countries with similar technical capabilities used to developing joint projects. Getting 120 or more countries with different technical capabilities and drug approval agencies to agree is a matter of years.

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by broberts

[lots-of-km2]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

I don't want to be a naysayer but who really cares what the WHO wants?  Even now, Canada and the US can't agree on what fully vaccinated means. 

A passport for international travel would just need to list the dates and types/doses of vaccines received, and where received, but not that someone is "fully vaccinated"  -- because each country has its own standards, and can choose to allow or refuse entry to a person based on the info.

 

WHO's role would just be to specify the standardized info that needs to be on the document.  

 

1 hour ago, broberts said:

The EU started work on theirs around April 2020. It only became fully operational July of this year. The EU is a relatively small collection of like minded countries with similar technical capabilities used to developing joint projects. Getting 120 or more countries with different technical capabilities and drug approval agencies to agree is a matter of years.

 

Providing a secure digital document that lists doses and dates does not require major hand-wringing. Governments can mobilize and be effective if they have the right attitude (what a concept!) and the public demands it.  Moving like a directionless turtle with its legs lopped off doesn't cut it anymore. 

[d9704011]

4 minutes ago, lots-of-km2 said:

A passport for international travel would just need to list the dates and types/doses of vaccines received, and where received, but not that someone is "fully vaccinated"  -- because each country has its own standards, and can choose to allow or refuse entry to a person based on the info.

Now, there's a great recipe for standards and predictability.  Oh, and the country can change their admissibility criteria at any tme too.

[lots-of-km2]

2 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Now, there's a great recipe for standards and predictability.  Oh, and the country can change their admissibility criteria at any tme too.

A secure document is not a guarantee of entry. It's secure information that a border service uses to make decisions.   Getting the document up and running is a technical exercise;  dealing with entry into other countries is a whole other kettle of fish.   I think that the two things keep getting conflated, but they needn't be. 

[zook50]

10 hours ago, Britchip said:

I can name at least one

Greetings from Saskatchewan!  I can name another. 

[d9704011]

8 hours ago, lots-of-km2 said:

A secure document is not a guarantee of entry. It's secure information that a border service uses to make decisions.   Getting the document up and running is a technical exercise;  dealing with entry into other countries is a whole other kettle of fish.   I think that the two things keep getting conflated, but they needn't be. 

The primary reason the technical exercise of creating the secure document is being undertaken is to facilitate cross border traffic/travel.  Separating the two as though they're individually independant diminishes the importance (and complexity) of why the whole exercise is being undertaken at an international level.

Edited September 10, 2021 by d9704011

[Robjame]

2 hours ago, d9704011 said:

why the whole exercise is being undertaken at an international level.

I did not know this was being done. Could you please provide a link?

 

Federal government committed to providing this fall, a vaccine certificate for international travel.

"The prime minister announced on Friday that Scott Jones, currently the deputy chief of the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security with Communications Security Establishment Canada (CSE), will be the federal lead for proof of vaccine credentials at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC). Jones moves into this newly created role on Aug. 16." (August 6 2021) Probably a good bet it is digital with Jones at the helm.

 

 

I suspect the Canadian International Vaccine Certificate will regain importance once the election is over. 

[d9704011]

24 minutes ago, Robjame said:

I did not know this was being done. Could you please provide a link?

 

Federal government committed to providing this fall, a vaccine certificate for international travel.

"The prime minister announced on Friday that Scott Jones, currently the deputy chief of the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security with Communications Security Establishment Canada (CSE), will be the federal lead for proof of vaccine credentials at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC). Jones moves into this newly created role on Aug. 16." (August 6 2021) Probably a good bet it is digital with Jones at the helm.

 

 

I suspect the Canadian International Vaccine Certificate will regain importance once the election is over. 

Don't know what you're talking about.

[Robjame]

3 hours ago, d9704011 said:

The primary reason the technical exercise of creating the secure document is being undertaken is to facilitate cross border traffic/travel.  Separating the two as though they're individually independant diminishes the importance (and complexity) of why the whole exercise is being undertaken at an international level.

The thread is about Canada providing a vaccine passport for international travel. Your comments above led me to think that you were suggesting a vaccine passport was being created internationally. Set me straight.

[d9704011]

51 minutes ago, Robjame said:

The thread is about Canada providing a vaccine passport for international travel. Your comments above led me to think that you were suggesting a vaccine passport was being created internationally. Set me straight.

Oh.... My belief is that Canada is working with other nations to create an internationally recognized vaccine 'passport'.  Whether Canada issues its own version that adheres to all the requirements recognized for proof of vaccination or there is an international concensus on adopting a generic application (which I doubt will happen) remains to be seen.  I'm also thinking that by the time most nations agree on what is required, the perceived need to consider Covid-19 as a virus requiring special/specific vaccination status for most international travel will be past and mostly relegated to the status yellow fever currently holds.

[Robjame]

12 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I'm also thinking that by the time most nations agree on what is required, the perceived need to consider Covid-19 as a virus requiring special/specific vaccination status for most international travel will be past and mostly relegated to the status yellow fever currently holds.

 

That would be wonderful and I sure hope you are right! We can hope....

[DirtyDawg]

17 hours ago, lots-of-km2 said:

... Call me naive/optimistic.  

Optimistic. 

 

You can call me a Realist/Cynic.

 

I stopped believing in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and speedy international negotiations long ago. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be wrong and hope this would happen with lightning speed, just like I'd love to find a Bunny under my pillow in the morning 😊 but I'm not counting on either anytime soon. 😪

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[lots-of-km2]

7 hours ago, d9704011 said:

The primary reason the technical exercise of creating the secure document is being undertaken is to facilitate cross border traffic/travel.  Separating the two as though they're individually independant diminishes the importance (and complexity) of why the whole exercise is being undertaken at an international level.

 

No dimunition at all, IMO, and there's no reason why things can't be handled sequentially (as is often the case when dealing with mediated or negotiated issues).  It will take a long time for countries to agree on cross-border migration policies with respect to Covid and vaccinations, but in the meantime, people are already starting to travel for work and personal reasons.  So there's a need for tamper-proof documents asap.   Otherwise this stuff goes mostly unchecked - see below.  Fake cards were even being sold on Amazon and eBay for a long while. 

 

 (The only reason that this forgery was caught was because the buffoon who forged it didn't spell Moderna correctly.)

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by lots-of-km2

[lots-of-km2]

1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be wrong and hope this would happen with lightning speed, just like I'd love to find a Bunny under my pillow in the morning 😊 but I'm not counting on either anytime soon. 😪

 

That's only because the Bunny has been stuck in a shipping container in Shanghai for the last few months. 🙃