Royal issue with restarting from Tampa

[Lou33]

8 hours ago, brillohead said:

I just don't see the whole "conspiracy theory" angle here, sorry.  

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy.  Maybe a loophole?  The OP wondered why cruises were being switched to Bahamas, and that's one possible explanation.  

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lou33

[Lou33]

1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

As far as I know, there’s nothing in the law that differentiates between a cruise sailing to the Bahamas and one that doesn’t. A cruise going to the Bahamas requiring passengers to be vaxxed is just as illegal (or not) as one that doesn’t. Happy to be corrected if wrong here.  

That seems true.  But there is a catch22.  Any cruise from Florida going to Bahamas would have to break either the Florida law or the Bahamas law.  

[SummerBeee]

On 9/18/2021 at 10:55 PM, Lou33 said:

I’m curious if there are any cruises which leave from Florida and do not stop in Bahamas or USVI? If so, wouldn’t they be prohibited from asking any passenger about their vax status?

November 2 on Mariner was Labadee, now has Cozumel as only stop. 

[Lou33]

20 minutes ago, SummerBeeSweet said:

November 2 on Mariner was Labadee, now has Cozumel as only stop. 

There's also the November 20 on Mariner.  Those two seem to be the only RCI sailings this year from Florida to Mexico only.   Somebody mentioned that the requirements to Mexico may be changing soon, so maybe those sailings will have vaccination requirements.  

[tomjohnsonjr]

Norwegian Cruise Line and Royal can require Florida passengers to show proof of Covid vaccination, federal judge rules.

[Lou33]

51 minutes ago, tomjohnsonjr said:

N

You don't have to SHOUT.  We all know that Norwegian won a preliminary ruling allowing them to bypass the law for now.  But I don't know that the ruling applies to RCI.  And if it does, would they choose to use that path?

[tomjohnsonjr]

I am sorry about shouting. I think is applies to all cruise lines. RCCL was just sitting back rooting for the other team NORWEGIAN. 

[tomjohnsonjr]

The “vaccine passport” ban signed into law in May by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis fails to protect medical privacy or prevent discrimination against unvaccinated people, but it does appear to violate the First Amendment rights of Norwegian Cruise Lines, U.S. District Judge Kathleen Williams wrote.

[tomjohnsonjr]

The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech. Freedom of speech gives Americans the right to express themselves without having to worry about government interference. It's the most basic component of freedom of expression.
 

so the federal judge’s ruling is for everyone. The cruise lines not the government. 

[Babr]

8 hours ago, zekekelso said:

Aren’t there other cruise lines sailing out of Florida which require passengers to be vaxxed, and were doing so even before the Bahamas required it?
 

 Suspect the cruise lines believe they have a loophole, or are willing to fight the state in court. 

As far as I know, there’s nothing in the law that differentiates between a cruise sailing to the Bahamas and one that doesn’t. A cruise going to the Bahamas requiring passengers to be vaxxed is just as illegal (or not) as one that doesn’t. Happy to be corrected if wrong here.  

 

I think the difference is that the Florida law does not apply when the host port requires vaccination. Cruise ships that can’t verify all eligible passengers are vaccinated will not be allowed port entry in the Bahamas. 

[tomjohnsonjr]

The law first has to be legal. The federal judge ruled the cruise lines can run there business with out interference by the government.  

[dsvd79]

This might explain why my Serenade cruise in January, you cannot book excursions yet. 

[ONECRUISER]

7 hours ago, Lou33 said:

There's also the November 20 on Mariner.  Those two seem to be the only RCI sailings this year from Florida to Mexico only.   Somebody mentioned that the requirements to Mexico may be changing soon, so maybe those sailings will have vaccination requirements.  

Serenade also has 4 Sailings this yr from Florida with only stop in Mexico.

[tbmrt]

Thinking of booking on Serenade today - Just 4 days w/one stop in Mexico in December.  Wondering if this will still go on?

 

[fox02554]

7 hours ago, dsvd79 said:

This might explain why my Serenade cruise in January, you cannot book excursions yet. 

I was thinking the same thing ! we're feb 19 th and cant book excursions yet either , Kinda hard to book excursions if you don't know which ports your going to be using 🤣

[RedIguana]

14 hours ago, Babr said:

I think the difference is that the Florida law does not apply when the host port requires vaccination. Cruise ships that can’t verify all eligible passengers are vaccinated will not be allowed port entry in the Bahamas. 

No exceptions in the law except for health care providers. Technically any airline requesting it is also in violation. 

        (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include
 1123  any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or
 1124  customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19
 1125  vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry
 1126  upon, or service from the business operations in this state.
 1127  This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from
 1128  instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or
 1129  controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

I have not read the rules promulgated by the DoH or whatever agency was granted that authority, but there is no built in exceptions other than health care.

[Homosassa]

18 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

No exceptions in the law except for health care providers. Technically any airline requesting it is also in violation. 

        (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include
 1123  any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or
 1124  customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19
 1125  vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry
 1126  upon, or service from the business operations in this state.
 1127  This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from
 1128  instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or
 1129  controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

I have not read the rules promulgated by the DoH or whatever agency was granted that authority, but there is no built in exceptions other than health care.

Wrong!

 

Read the last sentence again.

 

This is why cruise lines can require vaccinations to comply with "controlling government issued guidance."

 

I am scheduled on a cruise departing from Tampa going to the ABCs (not on Royal Caribbean). That cruise requires vaccinations to comply with the government required procedures for vaccinated visitors instead of the cumbersome requirements for unvaccinated visitors.

[RedIguana]

2 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Wrong!

 

Read the last sentence again.

Yes...you are wrong.  Read that last sentence again. It refers to screening procedures, not vaccinations. This is why testing requirements are allowed. It has no bearing on what other governments require. It is also the reason it will be thrown out.  

[Homosassa]

 My interpretation is based on reading in their entirety the original Executive Order and the complete state law into which the EO was inserted and any state law incorporated by reference by the EO and state law.

 

The original EO and state law is a masterful example of legalese that appears to say one thing to appeal to a segment of the voter base while in actuality allowing that which it seems to prohibit.

 

That is why cruise lines like NCL, Celebrity and others are instituting "screening" procedures to ensure that vaccinated passengers will board their ships who will meet the requirements of "authoritative or controlling government issued guidance to protect public health."

 

 

[RedIguana]

40 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

 My interpretation is based on reading in their entirety the original Executive Order and the complete state law into which the EO was inserted and any state law incorporated by reference by the EO and state law.

 

The original EO and state law is a masterful example of legalese that appears to say one thing to appeal to a segment of the voter base while in actuality allowing that which it seems to prohibit.

 

That is why cruise lines like NCL, Celebrity and others are instituting "screening" procedures to ensure that vaccinated passengers will board their ships who will meet the requirements of "authoritative or controlling government issued guidance to protect public health."

 

 

The original EO is expired. It has no bearing. The text I pasted is the part that applies to private business, the rest of the law is basically the same for government and educational sectors. I did leave out the exemptions for medical. There were some minor differences between the EO and the law.

The "screening" procedures do not allow to ask for proof of vaccination. They allow requiring testing, etc. The requirements of "authoritative or controlling government issued guidance to protect public health" refer to any guidance issued by the CDC or another authorized US/state authority.  NCL sued and was granted an injunction enjoining enforcement until the full suit can be heard, and although the order was only directed at NCL, the other lines are going with it by proxy. Although the law will end up being overturned for numerous reasons, as it is written both international air flights requiring proof of vaccination and cruises requiring it technically violate it (as would any other  business in Florida that required documents as proof for service).  There was no way the State of Florida was going to attempt to enforce it against the airlines, and have not actually tried to enforce it against anyone to the best my knowledge. 

[orville99]

On 9/18/2021 at 11:13 PM, gmerick said:

To me, it looks like the move away from Cozumel / Mahuhual is simply a capacity issue.  Cozumel can handle 4 ships from RCI brands and NCL brands at the International Pier.  Mahuhual can only take 3, and maxes out at 15000 pax/day.  There simply aren't enough ports open in the western Carib to handle all the ships.  Something had to give.

We have been in Cozumel when there were 13 ships in port. Capacity is not an issue in Cozumel

[Roger88]

7 hours ago, tbmrt said:

Thinking of booking on Serenade today - Just 4 days w/one stop in Mexico in December.  Wondering if this will still go on?

 

I think it is possible as the cruise is short and I am sure many people are willing to take for a short vacation and I doubt they will cancel it due to any reason. I think its more of a problem of big cruises

[gmerick]

A search on royalcaribbean.com for any Florida departure during September or October has every ship calling in the Bahamas (either PDCC or Nassau).  The Serenade and Mariner 4 day trips to Coz were switched this morning to PDCC.  

[tbmrt]

Would be very disappointed if this happened to us in early December.  Really dislike Nassau. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[SummerBeee]

4 hours ago, gmerick said:

A search on royalcaribbean.com for any Florida departure during September or October has every ship calling in the Bahamas (either PDCC or Nassau).  The Serenade and Mariner 4 day trips to Coz were switched this morning to PDCC.  

What! We were switched from Labadee to Cozumel and now CocoCay? Yikes. I booked the Cozumel Bar Hop