Oceania Marketing Vista as a Different Ship Class

[Robjame]

I watched a new video and marketing presentation to a major cruise consortium about Vista. Oceania seems to be avoiding including Vista as an Oceania class but rather as Allura class ship. Items emphasized were:

- increased staff to guest ratio - 1 : 1.5

 

- larger Verandah suites and Concierge suites

- solo cabins

- changed food experiences - Embers breakfast and lunch, Aquamar Kitchen with breakfast and lunch, Culinary dining room, Barista expansion and Bakery, hot breakfasts in any suite 24h

- Aquamar spa

- targeting a younger demographic

 

The skeptic says it is a marketing ploy to justify increased fares.

However comparing fares of Vista to Marina and Riviera for similar voyages may be missing the point. Oceania is trying to market these Allura ships as another level of Oceania Cruises.

What do you think?

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Robjame

[LHT28]

When the new builds were announced  a while back  the new ships were  marketed as Allure Class

  a bit less pax , no inside cabins  etc..

 

They need to market to the  under 50's  to stay in business  as us old folks  are not travelling as much or cannot travel  due to health reasons

 All lines changed their marketing strategies over the years  they need to change to stay afloat

JMO

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, Robjame said:

I watched a new video and marketing presentation to a major cruise consortium about Vista. Oceania seems to be avoiding including Vista as an Oceania class but rather as Allura class ship. Items emphasized were:

- increased staff to guest ratio - 1 : 1.5

 

- larger Verandah suites and Concierge suites

- solo cabins

- changed food experiences - Embers breakfast and lunch, Aquamar Kitchen with breakfast and lunch, Culinary dining room, Barista expansion and Bakery, hot breakfasts in any suite 24h

- Aquamar spa

- targeting a younger demographic

 

The skeptic says it is a marketing ploy to justify increased fares.

However comparing fares of Vista to Marina and Riviera for similar voyages may be missing the point. Oceania is trying to market these Allura ships as another level of Oceania Cruises.

What do you think?

 

The Allura Class [A] designation differentiates the newest DESIGN added to the Oceania fleet, which is warranted because it is significantly different than the Regatta Class (original Oceania updates of former Renaissance [R] ships) and the original custom designed Oceania [O] class ships.

That’s all there is to it. Not a marketing ploy - just a different design.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Flatbush Flyer

[Robjame]

6 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

That’s all there is to it. Not a marketing ploy - just a different design.

I agree. Direct price comparisons to similar routes of Marina and Riviera are missing that point.

 

Personally I am very excited about Vista.
 

[ak1004]

What what makes the Vista worth the higher rates compared to Marina and Riviera? Obviously the age - brand new ship vs. 10 years old, but Marina and Riviera are still in great shape.

 

I would love to try the Vista, just trying to understand what I'm paying for?

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

What what makes the Vista worth the higher rates compared to Marina and Riviera? Obviously the age - brand new ship vs. 10 years old, but Marina and Riviera are still in great shape.

 

I would love to try the Vista, just trying to understand what I'm paying for?

You do realize that the current Vista prices are for the future(?). 
But, even if it was tomorrow, what makes Vista worth what you perceive to be a higher cost is that O regulars won’t hesitate to pay the price.

[shepherd really]

6 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You do realize that the current Vista prices are for the future(?). 
But, even if it was tomorrow, what makes Vista worth what you perceive to be a higher cost is that O regulars won’t hesitate to pay the price.

A business increasing its capacity without increasing it's customer base is not generally a good model for success. O regulars are drawn from other O ships. 

[ak1004]

7 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You do realize that the current Vista prices are for the future(?). 
But, even if it was tomorrow, what makes Vista worth what you perceive to be a higher cost is that O regulars won’t hesitate to pay the price.

Yes, but you can compare 2023 prices on Vista with 2023 prices on Marina and Riviera. They are still higher.

 

O regulars can do whatever they want - for me, I need a good reason to pay higher prices. When I pay higher prices for Marina or Riviera compared to Celebrity or Princess, I know exactly what I'm paying for (better food, better service, no lines etc.) But what I'm getting on Vista that justifies higher prices? 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, shepherd really said:

A business increasing its capacity without increasing it's customer base is not generally a good model for success. O regulars are drawn from other O ships. 

The plans to build the two Allura class ships was/is based on O’s constantly growing “regular” and new customer base. Many O itineraries book full within days to weeks of announcement. Vista will help to satisfy that demand.

It is my understanding that the average of repeat customers on most O itineraries exceeds 70%. Unlike many mainstream lines, Oceania cruises are not “one and done.” And the missteps of some of those “premium wannabes” (in particular Celebrity whose prices have skyrocketed), will keep the flow of O newbies constant. And let’s not forget RCCL’s major goof in dumping Azamara. We shall see how Sycamore Partners maritime inexperience pans out. In fact, with O’s ever-increasing customer base, don’t be surprised if, after the two Allura Class ships are in service, O starts eyeing the bargain acquisition of at least one more R ship.

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

15 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Yes, but you can compare 2023 prices on Vista with 2023 prices on Marina and Riviera. They are still higher.

 

O regulars can do whatever they want - for me, I need a good reason to pay higher prices. When I pay higher prices for Marina or Riviera compared to Celebrity or Princess, I know exactly what I'm paying for (better food, better service, no lines etc.) But what I'm getting on Vista that justifies higher prices? 

Perhaps you’re forgetting that you (and I) are mere rounding errors in O’s daily bottom line. 
If either of us doesn’t want to pay what you are suggesting is an undeserved premium price on Vista, there will be plenty of new bookings to replace us.

That said, you also seem to be making an error in comparing the O and A class ships. Vista will have more restaurants, expanded onboard experiences, better crew and space ratios, etc. In essence, it will add many elements of the O class ships that were found to be in need of improvement/modification/addition.

Bottom line: You (or I) could balk at the Vista pricing and cruise elsewhere. But, no one will care since there are plenty of folks to replace us.

 

[Robjame]

5 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The plans to build the two Allura class ships was/is based on O’s constantly growing “regular” and new customer base.

It wasn't until this marketing presentation to travel agents, that I realized that Oceania was trying to market Vista to the 50's age group. Like these:

- redo of spa area

- addition of a healthy food outlet

- trading French cuisine for another steakhouse - Embers (description used in this marketing video)

- adding an open kitchen specialty restaurant with a fast service option

 

Vista bookings have been very slow.

I booked Vista but am wondering....

6 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Bottom line: You (or I) could balk at the Vista pricing and cruise elsewhere. But, no one will care since there are plenty of folks to replace us.

Are there enough changes to attract this new demographic?

[ak1004]

7 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Perhaps you’re forgetting that you (and I) are mere rounding errors in O’s daily bottom line. 
If either of us doesn’t want to pay what you are suggesting is an undeserved premium price on Vista, there will be plenty of new bookings to replace us.

That said, you also seem to be making an error in comparing the O and A class ships. Vista will have more restaurants, expanded onboard experiences, better crew and space ratios, etc. In essence, it will add many elements of the O class ships that were found to be in need of improvement/modification/addition.

Bottom line: You (or I) could balk at the Vista pricing and cruise elsewhere. But, no one will care since there are plenty of folks to replace us.

 

 

I didn't suggest that the premium is undeserved. On the contrary - I'm fully aware that all lines charge extra for their newer ships (see Celebrity Edge and Apex prices - their prices are close to Oceania).

 

I'm just saying that personally I need to see exactly what I'm paying for compared to Marina and Riviera.

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I didn't suggest that the premium is undeserved. On the contrary - I'm fully aware that all lines charge extra for their newer ships (see Celebrity Edge and Apex prices - their prices are close to Oceania).

 

I'm just saying that personally I need to see exactly what I'm paying for compared to Marina and Riviera.

I gave you a few examples.

It’s got more/better “stuff.” And the only way you can find that out is if you book a Vista cruise.

[shepherd really]

No one has stepped aboard this new ship so we are ALL basing our opinions on the information Oceania has shared via the brochure and social media.

 

Oceania, like every cruise line, is selling the sizzle.  I'll wait until the steak is done.  Right now the incremental differences on Vista are not convincing me it is worth a premium over the OClass ships. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

33 minutes ago, Robjame said:

.....Vista bookings have been very slow.

I booked Vista but am wondering....

Are there enough changes to attract this new demographic?.....

We’ve looked at the initial Vista itineraries - a real “snooze fest” for anyone who regularly cruises on Oceania.

In a previous post on this or some other thread, I shared my hope for the future: Vista basically replaces the Marina schedule on the Atlantic side and Marina moves to a home port  in San Francisco (or L.A.) to service the Pacific.

I’m guessing that our first Vista cruise will be a repeat of one of our long past itineraries.

[ak1004]

So I just checked prices for summer 2023. It seems like lowest balcony category on Vista is around $410-420 pp per night, while on the Marina/Riviera it's around $370-380. That's around 10% difference which is actually pretty reasonable I think.

[ORV]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

We’ve looked at the initial Vista itineraries - a real “snooze fest” for anyone who regularly cruises on Oceania.

In a previous post on this or some other thread, I shared my hope for the future: Vista basically replaces the Marina schedule on the Atlantic side and Marina moves to a home port  in San Francisco (or L.A.) to service the Pacific.

I’m guessing that our first Vista cruise will be a repeat of one of our long past itineraries.

Yeah, when pigs fly. 

[sunlover12]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

In a previous post on this or some other thread, I shared my hope for the future: Vista basically replaces the Marina schedule on the Atlantic side and Marina moves to a home port  in San Francisco (or L.A.) to service the Pacific.

 

I don't see the Marina moving its home port to California.  Pure speculation on my part, of course.

 

Currently the Regatta serves the Pacific with 3-4 cruises per year sailing around the islands of French Polynesia.  FP has stated that starting in 2022 they will be limiting the size of cruise ships and they will be favoring ships no larger than 700 passengers. Bora Bora in particular has said they will allow no more than 1200 cruise ship passengers per day.  

 

Oceania's R-class ships are a better fit in the Pacific however maybe the Alaska ports are better equipped to take larger ships.  Again..this is speculation and JMO. 

[susiesan]

Robjame: I compared almost identical 10 night Med itineraries that include the Canary Islands. I am currently booked on Riviera for April 4, 2022 in an outside at $290 pp. a day. Vista April 26, 2023 in a french veranda prices at $420 a day pp. Not worth 30%, $130 a day, more for the new ship for the same cabin doing the same itinerary.

 

Those of us who use insides and outsides on Oceania for the affordability will never sail on Vista.

[Robjame]

19 minutes ago, ORV said:

my hope for the future: Vista basically replaces the Marina schedule on the Atlantic side and Marina moves to a home port  in San Francisco (or L.A.) to service the Pacific.

Vista concept is more heavily skewed to the US market than any previous Oceania ship or class. 

What location would best serve the US market? Western Hemisphere?

[ORV]

1 minute ago, Robjame said:

Vista concept is more heavily skewed to the US market than any previous Oceania ship or class. 

What location would best serve the US market? Western Hemisphere?

I'm not sure who you're asking as it did one of those odd things. IMO the US market will go to where the ship is, not the other way around. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, ORV said:

Yeah, when pigs fly. 

Perhaps you’ve forgotten the past travels of Marina which often found it doing Pacific runs South to Pacific South America and West to Polynesia. 
Even common sense suggests that focusing all of the soon-to-be-three larger ships in one hemisphere makes zero sense- particularly with the growth of the cruising population in Eastern Asia and Oceania (NZ/OZ) and the increase of Pacific ports.

FWIW, Regatta already might be considered a primarily Pacific ship. Adding an O Class partner would allow for significant port and cabin availability.

Let’s revisit this in the second year after Vista starts cruising. I’m convinced we’ll look out our SF Bay windows and see Marina parked on the Embarcadero.

[Robjame]

1 minute ago, ORV said:

I'm not sure who you're asking as it did one of those odd things. IMO the US market will go to where the ship is, not the other way around. 

Sorry Orv -- - should have quoted Flatbush Flyer, not you.

 

[ORV]

4 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Perhaps you’ve forgotten the past travels of Marina which often found it doing Pacific runs South to Pacific South America and West to Polynesia. 
Even common sense suggests that focusing all of the soon-to-be-three larger ships in one hemisphere makes zero sense- particularly with the growth of the cruising population in Eastern Asia and Oceania (NZ/OZ) and the increase of Pacific ports.

FWIW, Regatta already might be considered a primarily Pacific ship. Adding an O Class partner would allow for significant port and cabin availability.

Let’s revisit this in the second year after Vista starts cruising. I’m convinced we’ll look out our SF Bay windows and see Marina parked on the Embarcadero.

Maybe for a port stop, but we'll see. I'm having trouble remembering a whole lot of embarkations and disembarkations from SF. I did disembark from Regatta there from an Alaskan cruise. Our prebooked driver took forever to pick us up, would have been much better off getting in the cab line. 

[Robjame]

8 minutes ago, ORV said:

I'm not sure who you're asking as it did one of those odd things. IMO the US market will go to where the ship is, not the other way around. 

If you agree that Vista is designed to appeal to the US market, 50 somethings, rather than the retired, "older"folks then:

don't these folks take shorter, closer to home cruises?