Mardi Gras - room outlet PSA

[scendro]

We are fresh off the Mardi Gras (disembarked yesterday) and stayed in Balcony Room 10341.

 

i brought my curling iron with me thinking i’d do my hair for the formal days.  it worked the night before at the hotel but would NOT heat up at all when plugged into the outlets in our room.  it did “light up” to show it was “on” but would not heat up no matter which outlet i used in our room.  i initially thought the heating coil might be bad but i brought it home anyway.  now the Carnival hair dryer worked fine.

 

i plugged in my curling iron today at home and sure enough it heated up just fine.  

 

so i wonder if there is a “voltage/watt limit” on these outlets.  

 

so ladies if your hair appliances don’t work on the Mardi Gras DON’T throw them out! 

[mondello]

Sounds like a question for @chengkp75! I wonder if it would work up in the Spa shower/locker room?

[crewsweeper]

46 minutes ago, mondello said:

Sounds like a question for @chengkp75! I wonder if it would work up in the Spa shower/locker room?

Agree.  chengkp75 will know.  I think Carnival's outlet in the cabin is 110V  and there's a 220V European outlet.   But a lot of curling irons run on 120V although many newer ones are multi like 100-240. 

[BlerkOne]

Offhand it sounds like the wattage required is higher than the circuit allows.

[chengkp75]

If it was a problem with the wattage being too high, the circuit breaker would have tripped, and it would require a call to get it reset.  OP, did you try anything else plugged into the outlet, after the hair curler failed? There is of course a current (not voltage) limit on the circuit, not just the outlet, just like at home, but your cabin is on the same circuit as 2-3 other cabins, so if the ladies in all the cabins turned on their hair appliances at the same time, it may have tripped the breaker.  If the outlet worked for something else, then my suspicion is that this is a Dyson product, which I have heard have problems with the floating ground on ships. 

[scendro]

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

OP, did you try anything else plugged into the outlet, after the hair curler failed? ….  If the outlet worked for something else, then my suspicion is that this is a Dyson product, which I have heard have problems with the floating ground on ships. 

 

the plug was fine and i unplugged my curling iron and plugged my cell phone charger into that same outlet.    i tried the curling iron using every outlet in the room and no luck- it turned on (green light came on) but never got hot or even warm.  we even tried to outsmart it thinking to plug our surge protector extension cord that we brought into an outlet and then the iron into that but nope, same thing! the brand is a Revlon- about 2 years old from Target so not a pricey one. 

[Brkintx]

9 minutes ago, scendro said:

 

the plug was fine and i unplugged my curling iron and plugged my cell phone charger into that same outlet.    i tried the curling iron using every outlet in the room and no luck- it turned on (green light came on) but never got hot or even warm.  we even tried to outsmart it thinking to plug our surge protector extension cord that we brought into an outlet and then the iron into that but nope, same thing! the brand is a Revlon- about 2 years old from Target so not a pricey one. 

I’m sorry… are you saying you had / plugged in a surge protector outlet strip in your cabin? These are a huge hazard on a cruise ship, and are disallowed for that reason. 

[chengkp75]

16 minutes ago, scendro said:

 

the plug was fine and i unplugged my curling iron and plugged my cell phone charger into that same outlet.    i tried the curling iron using every outlet in the room and no luck- it turned on (green light came on) but never got hot or even warm.  we even tried to outsmart it thinking to plug our surge protector extension cord that we brought into an outlet and then the iron into that but nope, same thing! the brand is a Revlon- about 2 years old from Target so not a pricey one. 

 

5 minutes ago, Brkintx said:

I’m sorry… are you saying you had / plugged in a surge protector outlet strip in your cabin? These are a huge hazard on a cruise ship, and are disallowed for that reason. 

Yes, please don't use a surge protector on a ship.  A brand new, perfectly operating surge protector, can fail at any time due to a fault anywhere on the ship completely outside of your control, and cause a fire.  Surge protectors not only are dangerous on ships, but are completely unnecesary.

[Brkintx]

The likely reason your curling iron did not work is about how ships are wired, it’s different than a house. In a house, there’s a hot wire, a neutral wire, and should also be a ground. If you plug something in, you complete the circuit and provide power to that device. To avoid overload (fire), devices such as yours are many times wired the same, where all power is received from the hot side of the plug and returned via the neutral side. 

On a ship, the hot vs neutral doesn‘t apply and both are carrying half the load. Plugging in a device that requires 110v+ on one wire but only receives 55-60v on that side will result in diminished capacity or failure. 
 

Plugging in a surge protector changes the two 55-60v lines (neither of which would be lethal) into a potentially lethal one, as if it trips, it would ground the circuit - so someone else anywhere on the circuit coming into contact would get a lethal dose instead of an annoying shock. This is why surge protectors are banned. 

[E@syPe@zy]

I had the same issue on the Vista last cruise Feb. 2020.  

I bought a new straight iron a few months before the cruise and took the new one.  I had always taken the old one before that cruise.  The new one would not heat up but the light was on.  Worked fine in the hotel and back home.

The old one is a Revlon  and the newer one is a Conair.

Edited October 10, 2021 by E@syPe@zy

[scendro]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Yes, please don't use a surge protector on a ship.  A brand new, perfectly operating surge protector, can fail at any time due to a fault anywhere on the ship completely outside of your control, and cause a fire.  Surge protectors not only are dangerous on ships, but are completely unnecesary.

we brought it as an extension but didn’t need it since the cabin had so many outlets . i pulled it out of the suitcase and tried it to see if i could get my curling iron to work using the surge protector extension bar but that didn’t help either .  the outlet worked fine before and after i tried to use my curling iron with and without the surge protector.  the iron just never got hot so i’m thinking it drew too much electricity and that’s why it wouldn’t heat up that there was some internal something in the outlet that prevented it from getting the electricity it needed to get hot 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, Brkintx said:

The likely reason your curling iron did not work is about how ships are wired, it’s different than a house. In a house, there’s a hot wire, a neutral wire, and should also be a ground. If you plug something in, you complete the circuit and provide power to that device. To avoid overload (fire), devices such as yours are many times wired the same, where all power is received from the hot side of the plug and returned via the neutral side. 

On a ship, the hot vs neutral doesn‘t apply and both are carrying half the load. Plugging in a device that requires 110v+ on one wire but only receives 55-60v on that side will result in diminished capacity or failure. 
 

Plugging in a surge protector changes the two 55-60v lines (neither of which would be lethal) into a potentially lethal one, as if it trips, it would ground the circuit - so someone else anywhere on the circuit coming into contact would get a lethal dose instead of an annoying shock. This is why surge protectors are banned. 

No.  Power is supplied through both wires in your home, since it is alternating current, meaning that current switches its direction of flow from the hot wire, or from the neutral wire 60 times a second.  What the "neutral" means in home wiring is the voltage in the neutral wire is the same as ground.  There will always be the same current in the neutral wire as in the hot wire, so equal possibility of electrocution, but since the neutral is at ground voltage, the current wants to flow through the neutral wire more easily than through you.

 

Your next paragraph is also incorrect.  The two wires in shipboard wiring has 110v between them, and the current is the same as in your home.  The only difference in shipboard wiring is that instead of one power wire being at the same voltage as the ground (the neutral), each power wire in shipboard wiring is 55 volts above ground.

 

Finally, 55 volts can definitely be lethal, since voltage has very little with the danger of electrocution.  Current (amperage) is what causes electrocution, and as little as 0.1 amp can be lethal, and the current is limited by the voltage and the resistance.  And, while you are somewhat correct that a surge protector will "ground" the circuit, once that circuit is grounded, by definition the ground provides the best path for current (rather than your body), just like a hair dryer that "grounds" where the shell of the dryer becomes "live" (has power on it), the shell is also grounded through the ground plug, which prevents electrocution or shock.  The ground pin on a 3 pin 110v plug plugged into a ship's outlet provides the same protection.

 

The reason surge protectors are banned, is because of the floating ground, the semi-conductors that provide the surge protection are not designed to be exposed to "reverse voltage", and causes the semi-conductors to fail in "thermal runaway" (which can happen even with extremely low current (i.e. not enough for a shock), heat up, and cause the power strip to burn.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, scendro said:

we brought it as an extension but didn’t need it since the cabin had so many outlets . i pulled it out of the suitcase and tried it to see if i could get my curling iron to work using the surge protector extension bar but that didn’t help either .  the outlet worked fine before and after i tried to use my curling iron with and without the surge protector.  the iron just never got hot so i’m thinking it drew too much electricity and that’s why it wouldn’t heat up that there was some internal something in the outlet that prevented it from getting the electricity it needed to get hot 

Drawing "too much electricity" would mean the curler would get even hotter than normal.  If it was drawing "too much power" it would have started to heat up, until the current exceeded the circuit breaker, which would have tripped, and the power to the outlet would be gone until the breaker was reset manually, just like the breakers in your house.  Did the plug fit tightly into the outlets, or was it loose?  If loose fitting, it could have not made connection on one prong, causing no power to flow to the curler.

[Brkintx]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No.  Power is supplied through both wires in your home, since it is alternating current, meaning that current switches its direction of flow from the hot wire, or from the neutral wire 60 times a second.  What the "neutral" means in home wiring is the voltage in the neutral wire is the same as ground.  There will always be the same current in the neutral wire as in the hot wire, so equal possibility of electrocution, but since the neutral is at ground voltage, the current wants to flow through the neutral wire more easily than through you.

 

Your next paragraph is also incorrect.  The two wires in shipboard wiring has 110v between them, and the current is the same as in your home.  The only difference in shipboard wiring is that instead of one power wire being at the same voltage as the ground (the neutral), each power wire in shipboard wiring is 55 volts above ground.

 

Finally, 55 volts can definitely be lethal, since voltage has very little with the danger of electrocution.  Current (amperage) is what causes electrocution, and as little as 0.1 amp can be lethal, and the current is limited by the voltage and the resistance.  And, while you are somewhat correct that a surge protector will "ground" the circuit, once that circuit is grounded, by definition the ground provides the best path for current (rather than your body), just like a hair dryer that "grounds" where the shell of the dryer becomes "live" (has power on it), the shell is also grounded through the ground plug, which prevents electrocution or shock.  The ground pin on a 3 pin 110v plug plugged into a ship's outlet provides the same protection.

 

The reason surge protectors are banned, is because of the floating ground, the semi-conductors that provide the surge protection are not designed to be exposed to "reverse voltage", and causes the semi-conductors to fail in "thermal runaway" (which can happen even with extremely low current (i.e. not enough for a shock), heat up, and cause the power strip to burn.

Well that's what I get for trying to layman things down a bit based on a vague (mis)understanding of how it works...  😛

 

I'm glad the same point was made in my incorrect post as your likely correct one... "don't use a surge protector on a cruise ship, 'cause it's dangerous.. "

 

Despite that the explanation I gave was intended very much as a simplification, your technical explanation of my non technical - and clearly erroneous - post is appreciated. I'm not sure the lack of technical accuracy of my post changes the outcome, of, well anything related to this discussion, but I always like learning things. (Not sarcasm.) 

[chengkp75]

33 minutes ago, E@syPe@zy said:

I had the same issue on the Vista last cruise Feb. 2020.  

I bought a new straight iron a few months before the cruise and took the new one.  I had always taken the old one before that cruise.  The new one would not heat up but the light was on.  Worked fine in the hotel and back home.

The old one is a Revlon 170 and the newer one is a Conair.

Now I start to see the problem.  I am not intimately familiar with hair care appliances (being a balding male), but I suspect that both items that did not work on the ship, but worked on land, are PTC ceramic heaters.  These are semi-conductors, and most likely the wiring in the curler/straightener requires the neutral and ground to be at the same voltage, or the unit won't work (this would indicate to the unit that the wiring in the unit was broken, and a potential shock hazard).  I've found many other semi-conductor controlled devices that work fine on land, but don't work at all when on ships due to the difference in voltage between neutral and ground.  A resistance wire curler/straightener would work on the ship.

[scendro]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Drawing "too much electricity" would mean the curler would get even hotter than normal.  If it was drawing "too much power" it would have started to heat up, until the current exceeded the circuit breaker, which would have tripped, and the power to the outlet would be gone until the breaker was reset manually, just like the breakers in your house.  Did the plug fit tightly into the outlets, or was it loose?  If loose fitting, it could have not made connection on one prong, causing no power to flow to the curler.

 

the plug fit like it should it wasn’t loose 

[scendro]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

Now I start to see the problem.  I am not intimately familiar with hair care appliances (being a balding male), but I suspect that both items that did not work on the ship, but worked on land, are PTC ceramic heaters.  These are semi-conductors, and most likely the wiring in the curler/straightener requires the neutral and ground to be at the same voltage, or the unit won't work (this would indicate to the unit that the wiring in the unit was broken, and a potential shock hazard).  I've found many other semi-conductor controlled devices that work fine on land, but don't work at all when on ships due to the difference in voltage between neutral and ground.  A resistance wire curler/straightener would work on the ship.

yes it was a ceramic barrel curler !!

[RoperDK]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Now I start to see the problem.  I am not intimately familiar with hair care appliances (being a balding male), but I suspect that both items that did not work on the ship, but worked on land, are PTC ceramic heaters.  These are semi-conductors, and most likely the wiring in the curler/straightener requires the neutral and ground to be at the same voltage, or the unit won't work (this would indicate to the unit that the wiring in the unit was broken, and a potential shock hazard).  I've found many other semi-conductor controlled devices that work fine on land, but don't work at all when on ships due to the difference in voltage between neutral and ground.  A resistance wire curler/straightener would work on the ship.

As someone who is very scary to look at when humidity is high.  How do I tell if my beloved hair straightener is a "resistance wire" type.  I've never had a problem before, but haven't been on the newer Vista or Mardi Gras yet.  We sail on Mardi Gras in a couple of weeks and this is stressing me out more than a 2 day covid test!!!

[AmazedByCruising]

33 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The only difference in shipboard wiring is that instead of one power wire being at the same voltage as the ground (the neutral), each power wire in shipboard wiring is 55 volts above ground.

 

Why is it that ships need a floating ground instead of mimicking what happens on land? (The whole structure and subsequently the ocean is "earth").  

And could an exception be made for cabins, for the electricity to "act normal"? I.e. any appliance bought from Walmart deemed safe for domestic use would be just as safe when used in your cabin, and no way to even detect a shortcut somewhere else on the ship? 

[tqc_cruiser]

28 minutes ago, RoperDK said:

As someone who is very scary to look at when humidity is high.  How do I tell if my beloved hair straightener is a "resistance wire" type.  I've never had a problem before, but haven't been on the newer Vista or Mardi Gras yet.  We sail on Mardi Gras in a couple of weeks and this is stressing me out more than a 2 day covid test!!!

If you have a very old hair straightener, it will likely be a resistance wire type. If you buy a new,  inexpensive one, it too will likely be a resistance wire one. 

 

If you've used the one you have on any cruise ship before and it worked, you should also be fine. 

 

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, RoperDK said:

As someone who is very scary to look at when humidity is high.  How do I tell if my beloved hair straightener is a "resistance wire" type.  I've never had a problem before, but haven't been on the newer Vista or Mardi Gras yet.  We sail on Mardi Gras in a couple of weeks and this is stressing me out more than a 2 day covid test!!!

 

37 minutes ago, RoperDK said:

As someone who is very scary to look at when humidity is high.  How do I tell if my beloved hair straightener is a "resistance wire" type.  I've never had a problem before, but haven't been on the newer Vista or Mardi Gras yet.  We sail on Mardi Gras in a couple of weeks and this is stressing me out more than a 2 day covid test!!!

 

1 minute ago, tqc_cruiser said:

If you have a very old hair straightener, it will likely be a resistance wire type. If you buy a new,  inexpensive one, it too will likely be a resistance wire one. 

 

If you've used the one you have on any cruise ship before and it worked, you should also be fine. 

 

That is the best test, has it worked before on ships?  If the "fine print" on the appliance does not mention "ceramic", then it is a resistance wire unit.  Another way to know is whether the appliance "self regulates" the temperature.  If you leave a PTC ceramic heater on for a long time, the surface temperature will always be the same.  A resistance wire heater will continue to heat at maximum power until it burns out, so if it continues to get hot after 5-10 minutes, it is resistance wire.

[chengkp75]

32 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

Why is it that ships need a floating ground instead of mimicking what happens on land? (The whole structure and subsequently the ocean is "earth").  

And could an exception be made for cabins, for the electricity to "act normal"? I.e. any appliance bought from Walmart deemed safe for domestic use would be just as safe when used in your cabin, and no way to even detect a shortcut somewhere else on the ship? 

If the "whole structure" of the ship is ground, then any stray electrical current that goes to ground, will circulate between the various metals of the ship (notably steel and bronze), using the salt water as the electrolyte to create a battery, and the "less noble" metal will corrode (i.e. the steel of the hull, and especially the welds) will corrode.  The floating ground does not use the ship's hull as ground, it uses the "neutral point" of the "wye wound" generator as ground (I won't go into a full technical description of wye wound, except to say that this is the center point of the three generator windings, and is always at zero volts relative to the three power wires).  So, a grounded hair dryer does not send current through the hull, but through the ground wire to the generators.  Again, this is a lower resistance path to ground than your body, so you are protected from shock.  "Any appliance deemed safe for domestic use, is just as safe when used in your cabin.  The only exception is a surge protector, which virtually no electrical appliance, nor electronic device has, only power strips, which is why they are banned.  

 

The floating ground is also why a surge protector is not needed on ships.  The main protection that surge protectors provide on land is when lightning strikes a building, and the high voltage finds the wiring, and goes through the wiring to your electronics.  Since the hull of the ship is not connected to either the power leads, or the ground wire, when lightning strikes a ship, it travels through the hull to sea, without affecting the ship's wiring in the least (the ship's hull is more conductive than a building, so it will not look for wiring to travel through).  I've been on several ships that have been struck by lightning, and have never had any electronics, from our desktop computers, to the navigation electronics, radios, or automation systems, damaged in any way by the massive voltage from the strike.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

48 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

If the "whole structure" of the ship is ground, then any stray electrical current that goes to ground, will circulate between the various metals of the ship (notably steel and bronze), using the salt water as the electrolyte to create a battery, and the "less noble" metal will corrode (i.e. the steel of the hull, and especially the welds) will corrode.  The floating ground does not use the ship's hull as ground, it uses the "neutral point" of the "wye wound" generator as ground (I won't go into a full technical description of wye wound, except to say that this is the center point of the three generator windings, and is always at zero volts relative to the three power wires).  So, a grounded hair dryer does not send current through the hull, but through the ground wire to the generators.  Again, this is a lower resistance path to ground than your body, so you are protected from shock.  "Any appliance deemed safe for domestic use, is just as safe when used in your cabin.  The only exception is a surge protector, which virtually no electrical appliance, nor electronic device has, only power strips, which is why they are banned.  

 

The floating ground is also why a surge protector is not needed on ships.  The main protection that surge protectors provide on land is when lightning strikes a building, and the high voltage finds the wiring, and goes through the wiring to your electronics.  Since the hull of the ship is not connected to either the power leads, or the ground wire, when lightning strikes a ship, it travels through the hull to sea, without affecting the ship's wiring in the least (the ship's hull is more conductive than a building, so it will not look for wiring to travel through).  I've been on several ships that have been struck by lightning, and have never had any electronics, from our desktop computers, to the navigation electronics, radios, or automation systems, damaged in any way by the massive voltage from the strike.

Great information.  Thanks for explaining all this. 

[satxdiver]

House or shore power is different than ship power.  As already mentioned in ship power the two prongs or slots they plug into have about 60 VAC on them so that 120 VAC total is delivered and used by the device.

 

House power in North America is 120 VAC plus or minus.  The AC means alternating current.  So the current flows one way and then the other way 60 times a second.  At home the small slot on the wall outlet has 120 VAC on it ("positive") and will be a black wire (sometimes a red wire) connected to it.  The larger slot is ground used for reference and will always have a white wire connected.  The rounded hole is for ground also and is used to make sure (sometimes referred as case ground) the appliance is grounded and will have a bare wire connected.  AC current flows only in the one side (hopefully) remembering that it flows one way and then the other way 60 times a second.  The large slot is for reference so that the positive side does not float (another discussion).  The rounded hole (bare wire) is connected to the larger slot (white wire) at the service panel and neither should be carrying any current in normal operation.  In some instances a GFCI circuit is required that will sense current flowing in either of the ground wires and shut off the current to the outlet.   The white wire and bare wire connected together at the service panel (aka fuse box) will be connected outside to a ground stake.  

 

The hair device was probably designed to have 120 VAC on the one side of the plug and not on the other side.  The electronics now installed in most if not all appliances today expect this to be and will not like ship's power where 60  VAC is presented on both sides to make 120 VAC.  Hence they will not work on the ship.  

[danodiego]

Chengkp75,

I don’t use power strips, but I have used small 3 way adapters to plug in two cell phone chargers. I have always assumed it wasn’t dangerous because of the low draw, but am I mistaken?