No independent exploring

[silversurf]

Just found out Saga have decided that you can only go ashore if you book one of their excursions.

We are due to go on 15 April and had booked one excursion in Amsterdam. Other port is Antwerp and we had intended to wander around on our own as I need a wheelchair and had found a good accessible map. No cost for us to do this.

I phoned Saga (waited half an hour for response ) there is only one excursion, the tram for one hour, suitable for someone with mobility issues. Won’t be able to take my chair and have to ask on board ship if I can get assistance to the tram.

Not very satisfactory and it’s going to be £29 per person.

[Harry Peterson]

Sorry to hear that - quite a surprise. 

 

Are they offering any options for anyone deciding it's not the cruise they thought they were booking?

[Windsurfboy]

If this is the case i would want to cancel,  why have they gone backwards

[Kenmure]

We are on SoA at the moment and found this out just before leaving Southampton yesterday. 25 people were sent home before boarding and 2 more positive today after PCR Test results. We had to wait over an hour before we were released. Now all being tested every day until Sunday.

[twotravellersLondon]

12 hours ago, silversurf said:

Just found out Saga have decided that you can only go ashore if you book one of their excursions.

 

I can't find this on SAGA's website. More info would be very helpful.

[Windsurfboy]

ONS say between 1 in 15 and 1 in 10 people in UK have covid. Saga is deluded if it thinks it can follow zero Covid, just look at S oA carribean cruise.. They will end up another cancelled cruise.

[Harry Peterson]

5 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

ONS say between 1 in 15 and 1 in 10 people in UK have covid. Saga is deluded if it thinks it can follow zero Covid, just look at S oA carribean cruise.. They will end up another cancelled cruise.

As you say, those ONS figures are horrendous, and they’re unlikely to be overstating the position.

 

Any cruise ships leaving over the next couple of weeks are going inevitably to be taking on positive passengers with a highly infectious variant, but I’m not sure how stopping independent visits is going to help - unless perhaps it’s been forced on cruise companies.

 

At least things should improve as we get nearer to summer, subject of course to new variants.

[ingatestonian]

A friend has just arrived back in port on S of D today. Hundreds of positive cases, mayday over tannoy at one point to send everyone back to rooms. He spent 5 days in isolation and is now being brought home in a taxi with Covid.

 

Doesn't sound like he went on many of the trips he'd booked.

[nosapphire]

As a longtime Saga cruiser, I am convinced (without any facts to support it) that the air circulation system on the new ships spreads disease faster than the one on the old ships.

I know the new ships are all fresh air circulation, so should be better - but on the old ships, outbreaks of Norovirus etc, seemed to be contained to a few individuals - whereas the SoD has the misfortune to make the news when it was turned away from Gibraltar because of the number of Norovirus cases on board. And then it got worse with each of the consecutive cruises.

When we were on over Christmas, there were chest infection that went round the ship faster than I have ever seen on the old ships.

As I say, I have no facts at all - just my personal feeling it seems that infections spread further and faster on the new ships than they ever did on the old ones.

 

 

 

[twotravellersLondon]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

As a longtime Saga cruiser, I am convinced (without any facts to support it) that the air circulation system on the new ships spreads disease faster than the one on the old ships

 

I was under the impression that the Discovery was fitted with an enhanced state-of-the-art air conditioning system which provides 100% fresh air throughout the ship. But I do share your concern about the spread of infections.

[Denarius]

5 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

As you say, those ONS figures are horrendous, and they’re unlikely to be overstating the position.

 

Any cruise ships leaving over the next couple of weeks are going inevitably to be taking on positive passengers with a highly infectious variant, but I’m not sure how stopping independent visits is going to help - unless perhaps it’s been forced on cruise companies.

 

At least things should improve as we get nearer to summer, subject of course to new variants.

I am currently on SofA. The decision to ban independent exploration was sprung on us after we had embarked on tuesday. It is a Saga decision not a requirement of the ports to be visited, P&O visiting the same ports still allow people to go ashore independently. We have all been given a letter from Sagas CE invoking rising infections in the UK (!) as the reason for the change; surely what matters is the rate of infection in the ports visited! Needless to say many people onboard are not impressed and think that Saga have over reacted.

[Harry Peterson]

11 minutes ago, Denarius said:

I am currently on SofA. The decision to ban independent exploration was sprung on us after we had embarked on tuesday. It is a Saga decision not a requirement of the ports to be visited, P&O visiting the same ports still allow people to go ashore independently. We have all been given a letter from Sagas CE invoking rising infections in the UK (!) as the reason for the change; surely what matters is the rate of infection in the ports visited! Needless to say many people onboard are not impressed and think that Saga have over reacted.

Sounds rather as if Saga are taking the approach that they have a responsibility to protect people in those ports from an increased risk of contracting the virus from British passengers then. 
 

I won’t even begin to discuss the merits of that, but you can clearly see the arguments either way.

[Denarius]

11 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Sounds rather as if Saga are taking the approach that they have a responsibility to protect people in those ports from an increased risk of contracting the virus from British passengers then. 
 

I won’t even begin to discuss the merits of that, but you can clearly see the arguments either way.

The majority view onboard seems to be that Saga are more concerned about passengers being infected ashore if allowed to roam free, and that organised tours allow them to maintain the onboard tracing system. Two passengers apparently tested positive on the pcr tests after testing negative on the lft, but a doctor I spoke with afterwards suggested that pcr tests can pick up residual material in people who  have previously been infected even if they no longer are so it may well be a false alarm. Time will tell.

 

[Harry Peterson]

7 minutes ago, Denarius said:

The majority view onboard seems to be that Saga are more concerned about passengers being infected ashore if allowed to roam free, and that organised tours allow them to maintain the onboard tracing system. Two passengers apparently tested positive on the pcr tests after testing negative on the lft, but a doctor I spoke with afterwards suggested that pcr tests can pick up residual material in people who  have previously been infected even if they no longer are so it may well be a false alarm. Time will tell.

 

 

That sounds much more likely.  Altruism and business don’t usually sit too closely together!

 

Hope it doesn’t interfere too much with your enjoyment of the cruise, though faced with the choice between the snow here and the warmth of where you’re off to, it’s not a difficult decision.

 

Saga being Saga, I’d expect them to be offering something back for the changes to plans - perhaps that will follow.

[Windsurfboy]

Covid is everywhere,  only sensible policy is as Saga have done is ensure every is fully  vaccinated including in time 4th shot. Dont want to be seem as having  somethingagainst vunerable  people (Over and above just being older as we all are), but they shouldn't be taking  the risk of a cruise.

 

For the rest of us , then if we are fully  vaccinated  covid is a risk we have to live with even on a cruise. Not pleasant but neither is the flu . Saga will have to live with some covid on board, if they keep all these restrictions up who in their right mind would want to cruise

[nosapphire]

Taken just now from Saga's ocean cruises website (underlining is mine):

QUOTE: Will I be able to go ashore?

Yes, as usual you will be able to choose from a selection of included and optional shore excursions. We will send you all the information you need regarding which excursions are available for your cruise and how to book them. To ensure you get to go on the ones you want, we would strongly suggest booking your excursions in advance.

Additionally, you will be able to go ashore independently at overseas ports. This is subject to each destination’s specific COVID-19 protocols and our own assessment of conditions onboard and ashore at the time. We will of course inform you onboard of any ports where restrictions do need to remain in place for the safety of our guests and crew.END QUOTE.

If they are going to tell you the restrictions are because of the high number of cases in the UK then the above is somewhat confusing - no mention of protecting the ports from the passengers and crew. The only way to do this would be to not let anyone ashore.

[JoJo1947]

6 hours ago, nosapphire said:

As a longtime Saga cruiser, I am convinced (without any facts to support it) that the air circulation system on the new ships spreads disease faster than the one on the old ships.

I know the new ships are all fresh air circulation, so should be better - but on the old ships, outbreaks of Norovirus etc, seemed to be contained to a few individuals - whereas the SoD has the misfortune to make the news when it was turned away from Gibraltar because of the number of Norovirus cases on board. And then it got worse with each of the consecutive cruises.

When we were on over Christmas, there were chest infection that went round the ship faster than I have ever seen on the old ships.

As I say, I have no facts at all - just my personal feeling it seems that infections spread further and faster on the new ships than they ever did on the old ones.

 

 

Seriously! 

 

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

 

Additionally, you will be able to go ashore independently at overseas ports. This is subject to each destination’s specific COVID-19 protocols and our own assessment of conditions onboard and ashore at the time. We will of course inform you onboard of any ports where restrictions do need to remain in place for the safety of our guests and crew.END QUOTE.

 

 

OUR OWN ASSESSMENT OF CONDITIONS......

 

This gives Saga the freedom to do what it likes, and makes the promise  in the line above that you can go a shore independently irrelevant. Not a fair clause

[nosapphire]

57 minutes ago, JoJo1947 said:

Seriously! 

Yes.

I do not know why; the crew are as diligent as ever about cleaning, the sanitation crew are as quick to act as ever, and the ships continue to pass all port health inspections with flying colours as always.

But, in my experience, on-board infections seem to spread further and faster than they ever did on the old ships.

[nosapphire]

38 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

OUR OWN ASSESSMENT OF CONDITIONS......

 

This gives Saga the freedom to do what it likes, and makes the promise  in the line above that you can go a shore independently irrelevant. Not a fair clause

Personally, I think it is an essential clause, especially for the Master of the ship who is in ultimate control and has the ultimate responsibility for the welfare and safety of the ship, the crew and the passengers, so has to be able to make spot decisions, implement changes and restrictions with no or little warning depending on circumstances.

But in this particular case, getting on board and finding a letter from the CEO saying that independent shore visits were not allowed because of rising levels in the UK - well, I would consider it an insult to my intelligence.

[JoJo1947]

6 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Yes.

I do not know why; the crew are as diligent as ever about cleaning, the sanitation crew are as quick to act as ever, and the ships continue to pass all port health inspections with flying colours as always.

But, in my experience, on-board infections seem to spread further and faster than they ever did on the old ships.

How can you compare this to the old ships infections? . We are talking about a pandemic not a dose of flu or Noro. Different worlds apart. Sorry but I do not agree with you but you are entitled to your opinion. If people don't like the rules and regs or afraid just don't go. Simple 😀

[silversurf]

Phoned Saga yesterday to ask about excursions and booked one for both of us, but didn’t have my credit card to hand. Saga lady booked it and promised she would phone me today to collect money. In the meantime my partner decided he would do another one as well and could I book it when she phoned.

Guess what? No phone call!

Second time in a week I have been promised a call-back which hasn’t materialised.

What is the matter with their administration? P??? Up and brewery come to mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nosapphire]

47 minutes ago, JoJo1947 said:

How can you compare this to the old ships infections? . We are talking about a pandemic not a dose of flu or Noro. Different worlds apart. Sorry but I do not agree with you but you are entitled to your opinion. If people don't like the rules and regs or afraid just don't go. Simple 😀

My original post did not make it clear enough that I was not referring to Covid.

I mentioned old-fashioned infections - such as Norovirus , and the chest infection that was on SoD in 2019 - and referring to my opinion that these seemed to spread considerably faster and be less well contained on the new ships than they were on the old ones.

I agree with you that Covid is a completely different situation - for everybody.

 

[Windsurfboy]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

Personally, I think it is an essential clause, especially for the Master of the ship who is in ultimate control and has the ultimate responsibility for the welfare and safety of the ship, the crew and the passengers, so has to be able to make spot decisions, implement changes and restrictions with no or little warning depending on circumstances.

But in this particular case, getting on board and finding a letter from the CEO saying that independent shore visits were not allowed because of rising levels in the UK - well, I would consider it an insult to my intelligence.

 

The master of the ship is an expert in running a ship navigation and maritime safety, not in managing disease, he is not a public health expert , neither is the ships doctor..  So he must either be winging it , or following guide lines laid down by experts. If as I hope the latter then these should be shared.  In your case if rising levels in UK are the worry  then it's up to the country you are visiting to define restrictions. You and others wandering around on your own is safer for Saga passengers, less spread of covid between passengers , safer than packing you together on an excursion bus.

 

The Saga judgement clause allows them to make nonsensical decisions as in your case and get away with it

[Vivaldi]

On 3/31/2022 at 10:50 AM, nosapphire said:

As I say, I have no facts at all - just my personal feeling it seems that infections spread further and faster on the new ships than they ever did on the old ones.

On all our trips on the Sapphire, it was impossible to enter a dining area without sanitizing ones hands, and there was always someone there to strictly enforce this. On our one trip on the Discovery (pre-Covid) we were very surprised to find that no-one seemed to be making sure that guests used the hand sanitizers, and that many of the passengers didn't bother. This would certainly have an impact on any norovirus outbreak, this being mainly transmitted through touch (and droplets emitted when someone with it throws up). So we were not that surprised to note that the Discovery subsequently had a norovirus outbreak. So, as far as norovirus is concerned, it's more the enforcement of hygiene standards rather than the design of the ship which is to blame. Mainly airborne viruses (such as Covid) should have reduced transmission if each cabin and public area is fed fresh outside air - it's when air is recirculated that spread is greater. So, theoretically, the new ships with their better air conditioning should have reduced spread of these viruses. Theoretically!