No independent exploring

[thornegirl]

20 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Just reading this in brochure. 

 

As you say , it says we guarantee you will love your first cruise or we will refund your fare, and cover cost of your return transportation. 

 

Conditions,  it must be your first ever Saga cruise, secondly must tell hotel director in first 72hrs. 

 

There will be endeavour to resolve issues. However only you can say you "love it". 

 

The last line says "further terms and conditions may apply". On the web it also says this doesn't apply  if you want to return due to "force majeure " conditions as stated in Saga standard conditions.  However when I search Saga standard ocean cruise conditions  (pdf on web) force majeure can't be found in it. Force majeure means things outside Saga control,  so not being able to enter port because of say Spanish rules is Force Majeure.  Only going on Saga excursions is a Saga self imposed rule , not force majeure. 

 

From my experience ( but I'm not a lawyer) other un-written , undefined,  further conditions, not in the brochure or on website have no standing. 

 

its the quarantine in your cabins for at least 5 days if you are a close contact or actually get Covid and not being able to go ashore except on a saga excursion which would ruin the cruise.  The enjoyment of going ashore and discovering little cafes off the beaten track, going into a beautiful church or a museum is what we look forward to.   Not being herded into a coach and driven around without  being able to get off and walk around  is not my idea of an excursion. 

 

[Windsurfboy]

2 hours ago, thornegirl said:

 

its the quarantine in your cabins for at least 5 days if you are a close contact or actually get Covid and not being able to go ashore except on a saga excursion which would ruin the cruise.  The enjoyment of going ashore and discovering little cafes off the beaten track, going into a beautiful church or a museum is what we look forward to.   Not being herded into a coach and driven around without  being able to get off and walk around  is not my idea of an excursion. 

 

 

I  completely agree.

 

As we are booked for 2023  can't move to then , and I see no reason to give them my money for 2 years (with no incentive ) , if worst comes to worst , which I hope it doesn't we will invoke this clause as get out of jail free.

 

 

Think best is just to say you don't love it, things just didn't live up to promises , food wine etc,  don't mention covid restrictions 

[Harry Peterson]

2 hours ago, thornegirl said:

 

its the quarantine in your cabins for at least 5 days if you are a close contact or actually get Covid and not being able to go ashore except on a saga excursion which would ruin the cruise.  The enjoyment of going ashore and discovering little cafes off the beaten track, going into a beautiful church or a museum is what we look forward to.   Not being herded into a coach and driven around without  being able to get off and walk around  is not my idea of an excursion. 

 

Nor my idea of a cruise worth going on either!  Takes away the whole purpose of cruising for us, and one of the reasons we’re still making no cruise bookings.

[Tothesunset]

Mmmm. I am finding this thread a little unsettling. 

 

We are on the SoA in July with the majority of stops in Ireland or - as I call it - home! I chose this especially because I obviously know the ports of call and am looking forward to showing off the likes of Cork, Dublin and Belfast to my OH while trying Saga for the first time. Being driven round Belfast, say, for a couple of hours in a coach would be quite undesirable compared with visiting the Ulster Museum, Queen's, Methodist College etc on foot. Same principle for the other PsoC. 

 

I've checked out the "love it" deal and intend to invoke that should our voyage carry restrictions on independent exploring. 

 

And that would be a real shame. I know the lines all have their problems just now but that doesn't trump an individual's reasons to cruise. 

[lincslady]

Tts - that is a hard decision to make; presumably if you do the 'love it' deal you won't be able to cruise Saga again, which IMO could be a real loss.  It does compare pretty favourably nowadays with your preferred lines, and is of course a boon if as you get ancient you don't feel like tackling airports and flying any more.  Just a pity it is the very ports you want to visit, understandably.

 

Lola

[nosapphire]

Those of you (if you intended to go ashore independently) who are receiving letters stating that you can only go ashore on an included excursion, it may be worth while formally (i.e, in writing - email or letter) challenging their reasons for this, especially if the terms of booking you received do not specify this as a condition of cruise.

You can still do it if on board - reception will happily provide paper if you do not have any in the cabin, and hand it in to the Cruise Director. Or email Head Office directly.

Those of you booked, but who have not received a letter - you can still ask why this is happening, and is it going to happen to you?

If the port or the CLIA has decreed that passengers should not be allowed ashore independently, there is nothing that the line can do.

If this is purely a Saga decision, then what are the reasons for it? and they they valid reasons?

If it is because of the risk of bringing Covid back on board, then they need to explain why an included excursion ashore is less of a risk than an independent shore visit.

And ...Saga have spent a lot of advertising time promoting how healthy their ships are,with state-of-the-art fresh air circulation, etc., etc., so they also need to explain to you why they think that their ships are so much more at risk of people bringing Covid back than all the other ships who are not restricting passengers.

When strange rules get put in place, if nobody challenges the reasoning behind them, then they are likely to be regarded as OK and become permanent. If enough people start saying it is NOT OK, then at least the reasoning behind it may become clear - and it should not end up as a permanent restriction.

Otherwise - even worse -  you could see Saga promoting  this as part of the reason their passengers "feel safe with Saga".

 

[Truro001]

54 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Those of you (if you intended to go ashore independently) who are receiving letters stating that you can only go ashore on an included excursion, it may be worth while formally (i.e, in writing - email or letter) challenging their reasons for this, especially if the terms of booking you received do not specify this as a condition of cruise.

You can still do it if on board - reception will happily provide paper if you do not have any in the cabin, and hand it in to the Cruise Director. Or email Head Office directly.

Those of you booked, but who have not received a letter - you can still ask why this is happening, and is it going to happen to you?

If the port or the CLIA has decreed that passengers should not be allowed ashore independently, there is nothing that the line can do.

If this is purely a Saga decision, then what are the reasons for it? and they they valid reasons?

If it is because of the risk of bringing Covid back on board, then they need to explain why an included excursion ashore is less of a risk than an independent shore visit.

And ...Saga have spent a lot of advertising time promoting how healthy their ships are,with state-of-the-art fresh air circulation, etc., etc., so they also need to explain to you why they think that their ships are so much more at risk of people bringing Covid back than all the other ships who are not restricting passengers.

When strange rules get put in place, if nobody challenges the reasoning behind them, then they are likely to be regarded as OK and become permanent. If enough people start saying it is NOT OK, then at least the reasoning behind it may become clear - and it should not end up as a permanent restriction.

Otherwise - even worse -  you could see Saga promoting  this as part of the reason their passengers "feel safe with Saga".

 

 

[Nightingale0208]

I completely agree, voices should be heard now or this will become the norm, cited as due to passenger approval.  We were fortunate to be on SoD on Feb 27th Norway cruise, Norway didn't require testing so after being tested before embarking there were no further tests. There were, however, glaringly obvious problems which would sooner or later lead to large numbers of infection. On entering the Grill for our first meal we had to thoroughly wash our hands at one of 2 sinks. We were then asked if we minded sharing a table and we asked for a table for 2. This we got but it was just inches away from the adjacent table, not enough space for anyone to get through. We watched the safety video in our cabin then the alarm sounded and we all had to present at our muster stations so everyone was using the stairs at the same time leading to bottlenecks everywhere.  The next morning the queue for breakfast in the Grill was huge and it was decided that hand washing was taking too long so it was abandoned and a squirt of hand sanitizer replaced it.  There was great diligence everywhere in asking for a cabin number in every venue for tracking reasons, apart from the library which was hugely popular, the launderettes and lifts. What wasn't noted was the leaving time from these venues meaning if someone had tested positive on a day you had been around the same area you could be deemed a close contact even if you were never there at the same time.  There are other things that were worrying, excursions and disembarking were  problematic, but I learned very quickly that it was their way or no way.

That was our first Saga cruise and having had such faith in Saga's many years of experience with older and more vulnerable people I expected to feel as safe as it was possible to be.  No one is going to get everything right and new problems are arising all the time but I was really shocked by Saga's attitude to their own protocols.

[Truro001]

30 minutes ago, Truro001 said:

 

I fully agree with nosapphire and feel the point has been well made. Notwithstanding the safety / security issues of taking a cruise ship into an area in which NATO have warned of the dangers to shipping posed by upwards of 400 drifting mines I feel that that the recent restrictions / conditions imposed by Saga have resulted in the fact that this cruise is no longer the cruise we booked. Saga have imposed restrictions that severely curtail every passenger’s freedom of choice with regard to shore excursions and as a direct result of their own restrictions Saga have been obliged to restrict or cancel some on board facilities which they told us would be available when we booked our cruise. In view of the complete lack of information regarding our own cruise,  departing in less than 7 weeks,  I will be writing a formal letter to Saga management, sent by registered post, to register my concerns and request an explanation as why they feel it safe to cruise in the Black Sea when other companies have cancelled and how they justify their arbitrary decision with regard to shore excursions. I fully support nosapphire and would urge others to do likewise. (A single voice is merely a whisper - it takes many voices to invoke change.)

[Windsurfboy]

2 hours ago, lincslady said:

Tts - that is a hard decision to make; presumably if you do the 'love it' deal you won't be able to cruise Saga again, which IMO could be a real loss.  It does compare pretty favourably nowadays with your preferred lines, and is of course a boon if as you get ancient you don't feel like tackling airports and flying any more.  Just a pity it is the very ports you want to visit, understandably.

 

Lola

 

I have never read anywhere in terms and conditions that using love it bans you from ever cruising with SAGA again. Clearly  you can only use love it once.

 

In my case this is the longest and hence most expensive cruise I've booked. £30k is a lot to spend and not being able to visit ports in anything like the way we like, and being subject to constant  lockdowns and reduced service and reduced restaurant choice.  So if this means I can't use Saga again so be it.

 

Hopefully things will change, Covid will ease 

 

Also Saga should change itineraries to keep away from countries with draconian covid rules for ships. This would allow a more relaxed covid restrictions on board , given fully vaccinated passengers and crew

 

These are anachronisms, anyone can for example fly to Spain from UK which has 8% covid, yet a ship has to have less than half of this. 

 

Once I get the letter from Saga , I will write andbask them to explain the logic behind restrictions 

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

Dear Truro001 , a Cornish rebellion , I will join you, certainly with regard to arbitrary restrictions. 

[Truro001]

8 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Dear Truro001 , a Cornish rebellion , I will join you, certainly with regard to arbitrary restrictions. 

Greatly appreciated Windsurfboy

[Windsurfboy]

A lot of these restrictions are just to cover Saga's (and other cruise lines) backside.

 

The virus is primarily air born. Mask offer good protection , I wear one in most settings e.g supermarket.  However in a ship/ hospitality setting there are just too many places where you spend most of your time that you can legitimately take your mask off. Take a typical sea day. If it's fine I sit outside to read , or bad weather in cabin.

 

The amount of virus I breathe out directly proportional to time with mask off.

 

Walk to breakfast  5 mins mask  on

Breakfast  45 mins mask off

Walk back 5 mins mask on

 

Walk for coffee 5 mins mask on

60 mins having a couple of coffees and chatting mask off 

5 mins back mask on

 

Lunch 5 mins there mask on

60 mins mask off

5 mins back mask on

 

Dinner 5 mins going mask on

120 mins mask off

5 mins mask on

60 mins in bar mask off or 60 mins in theatre mask on

5 mins back mask on.

 

So even obeying rules spend 85% of time with mask off.

 

 

[stephenSJ]

S o D docked in Malaga today.

A line of taxis has taken off around  70  persons that I saw most of whom looked like crew escorted by persons in white hazmat suits ,some dragging suitcases others had cases on hotel type luggage carriers  moved by crew.

 

For those on board things have improved. Saga excursions have taken place in the usual style. It is a form of torture to look over your balcony to see the town but not be able to go to explore.

The club restaurant is open again and service generally in the restaurants has come back up.

Yesterday lockdown was under the hour and todays about an hour 

[Windsurfboy]

51 minutes ago, stephenSJ said:

S o D docked in Malaga today.

A line of taxis has taken off around  70  persons that I saw most of whom looked like crew escorted by persons in white hazmat suits ,some dragging suitcases others had cases on hotel type luggage carriers  moved by crew.

 

For those on board things have improved. Saga excursions have taken place in the usual style. It is a form of torture to look over your balcony to see the town but not be able to go to explore.

The club restaurant is open again and service generally in the restaurants has come back up.

Yesterday lockdown was under the hour and todays about an hour 

 

Does this mean they are also disembarking passengers who are positive but not that ill or they wouldn't be walking off

 

Do they give you any explanation of why they are locking you down for an hour. Do they say how a short one hour lockdown can impact spread of covid. All looks a bit ad hoc.

[stephenSJ]

3 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Does this mean they are also disembarking passengers who are positive but not that ill or they wouldn't be walking off

 

Do they give you any explanation of why they are locking you down for an hour. Do they say how a short one hour lockdown can impact spread of covid. All looks a bit ad hoc.

The lockdown are to allow them to move infected passengers or crew around without other passengers seeing or getting in the way. This afternoon s one was to remove the unfortunates would be my guess.

Information is scarce, numbers are not divulged officially.

[LondonLad60]

7 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Does this mean they are also disembarking passengers who are positive but not that ill or they wouldn't be walking off

 

Do they give you any explanation of why they are locking you down for an hour. Do they say how a short one hour lockdown can impact spread of covid. All looks a bit ad hoc.

 

[LondonLad60]

The lockdowns are also to allow them to complete the track and trace procedures following any new cases. On the cruise on SoD before this one we were given daily updates on the number of new cases by the Captain. The first case was confirmed on March 21st, and by the 29th there were over 140 confirmed cases, Thankfully my wife and I avoided it.

[stephenSJ]

The unofficial figures yesterday were 150 pax 50 crew. 

[Holcha]

Thank you for this information.  We are booked on SoA on 24th this month for 22 nights,  Booked Sept.20 as celebration for our Ruby wedding anniversary.  Not being able to explore independently is frustrating, but being confined to cabin for most of the cruise due to sitting “near” someone is more of an issue.  We try to distance ourselves as much as possible.  Yes, we have books to ready, cards to play etc. and we like sea days - but not 22!  Our first Saga cruise was last September and again COVID restrictions meant no independent port visits, but we knew well ahead of the cruise how things would be. The staff and the food were all wonderful but we found the tour buses frustrating as no social distancing and no enforcement of masks covering noses!   We insisted on table for 2 which wasn’t always popular.  Having said that we were not aware of any COVID cases but Omicrom had not arrived then.  This cruise is the most expensive one we have ever booked, so are just waiting until nearer the time. Appreciate all comments about the current situation. 

[stephenSJ]

Do you like afternoon tea?

How about if it is delivered to your cabin in a bag?

Announced that from today that will be what is happening. 

To soften the blow premium drinks are now in lncuded, not much good to us as we rarely use the regular drinks.

[Windsurfboy]

13 minutes ago, stephenSJ said:

Do you like afternoon tea?

How about if it is delivered to your cabin in a bag?

Announced that from today that will be what is happening. 

To soften the blow premium drinks are now in lncuded, not much good to us as we rarely use the regular drinks.

Thanks for information 

 

Sounding less and less appealing 

[Windsurfboy]

I note from P&O  CC board , they give FCC for each day they make you isolate.  Anyone know if this is case for Saga

[Holcha]

Afternoon tea would not appeal to me - maybe DH but not in Cabin.  Also while I like  couple of wines, I am not an expert and probably couldn’t tell the difference.  We had only done P&O until last year, had our Caribbean cancelled in March 20 then a subsequent Iceland in 2021 cancelled so now have cruise booked on Iona for October and Aurora next year and Ventura 2024. Thought we would be so happy with Saga we wouldn’t want to go back, but I think we will take our chances.  Based on P&O board reviews of Iona maybe we will be happy with larger ships.  Time will tell,

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, Holcha said:

Afternoon tea would not appeal to me - maybe DH but not in Cabin.  Also while I like  couple of wines, I am not an expert and probably couldn’t tell the difference.  We had only done P&O until last year, had our Caribbean cancelled in March 20 then a subsequent Iceland in 2021 cancelled so now have cruise booked on Iona for October and Aurora next year and Ventura 2024. Thought we would be so happy with Saga we wouldn’t want to go back, but I think we will take our chances.  Based on P&O board reviews of Iona maybe we will be happy with larger ships.  Time will tell,

 

As an experiment  , given our regular line Cunard is milking prices in queens grill , we arè trying other cruise lines.

 

Like you Saga in our case at end May (we hope) , also an aft suite on Iona which looks as good as a Saga suite, huge balcony for piece and quiet,  and couple it with plenty of speciality dining, it wiĺl still be cheaper than Saga std balcony . Also trying Silversea. Won't  find out till next year which we like. Just hope Saga is near normal, and as good as it looks, as they seem to have best itineraries. If all these restrictions remain not a fair comparison  of Saga and more importantly not an enjoyable experience.