Don’t believe Princess website

[JimmyVWine]

11 hours ago, Aladdin22 said:

Yes I understand that, but all those passengers aren’t on the ship any more and the ship has had a deep clean so why?

The swap out of passengers is not a zero sum game. It’s not as if a cruise with Covid positive passengers ends and 100% Covid negative passengers begins. It’s already been discussed about B2B passengers and crew. But recent events prove that passengers are bringing the virus on board with them. Maybe they contract it on a port stop, or maybe they have been exposed shortly before boarding but at a time when their mandatory test still shows them to be negative. The day-before and day-of test just shows your status at that point in time. But we know that the virus needs time to develop in the body before it will show up on a test. 
 

Add to this the fact that the UK currently has a population positivity rate that is higher than at any time during which cruising was suspended and you see Princess’ dilemma. How can it relax precautions when the virus is more prevalent than when it wasn’t sailing at all? Princess has seen what unchecked Covid can do. We all saw it with the Diamond Princess incident. And the people in the C-Suite at Princess and Carnival know that if another Princess ship returns to port with 700 positive passengers, Princess will go out of business for good. Frankly it is astonishing that Princess has not canceled cruises and gone into pause mode while this spike is occurring. At least in Europe. But if it continues to operate, it must do so with precautions if it expects to survive as a company. The bottom line is that while we may be “done” with Covid,, Covid is not done with us. 

[JF - retired RRT]

11 hours ago, Aladdin22 said:

Yes I understand that, but all those passengers aren’t on the ship any more and the ship has had a deep clean so why?

Ever hear the old saying: closing the barn door after...

[Tonsoffun44]

Wow the website and what actually happens at the port/onboard aren't the same - SHOCKING!!!  It happens probably every cruise even before this covid protocol stuff started. BTW it's part of the contract you sign but many don't read or care about following. 

[tonit964]

I think mask wearing on ships is going to be required for a very long time. Covid is not going away anytime soon and we will get new variants & surges of outbreaks.

Some people are okay with it and I know others that have stopped cruising completely until the masks are gone.

It's a personal choice to either cruise under these conditions or not.

[Eglesbrech]

2 hours ago, Tonsoffun44 said:

Wow the website and what actually happens at the port/onboard aren't the same - SHOCKING!!!  It happens probably every cruise even before this covid protocol stuff started. BTW it's part of the contract you sign but many don't read or care about following. 

It breaches U.K. advertising standards. What is advertised and what happens should be the same.

 

By all means use masking if that is supposed to help but don’t keep advertising it as discretionary when it clearly is not. The contract does not cover that.

[Daniel A]

12 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

By all means use masking if that is supposed to help but don’t keep advertising it as discretionary when it clearly is not. The contract does not cover that.

See my previous post at #26.  The contract very clearly covers the ability to mandate masks everywhere except your cabin any time the need arises.

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, Daniel A said:

See my previous post at #26.  The contract very clearly covers the ability to mandate masks everywhere except your cabin any time the need arises.

Yes, and that is very clearly stated in simple easy to understand English.

[2 cruises a year]

39 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, and that is very clearly stated in simple easy to understand English.

Yes, but as George Bernard Shaw said: 

“England and America are two countries separated by the same language!” 😀

[Eglesbrech]

5 minutes ago, 2 cruises a year said:

Yes, but as George Bernard Shaw said: 

“England and America are two countries separated by the same language!” 😀

And indeed different legal systems.😀

[Sunwanabe]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, and that is very clearly stated in simple easy to understand English.

Yes read this morning. Basically without notice they can mandate mask wearing at anytime. 

[nijh]

Beginning to wish I hadn’t booked now.  Each to their own but I don’t want a holiday where I have to wear a mask.

[memoak]

7 minutes ago, nijh said:

Beginning to wish I hadn’t booked now.  Each to their own but I don’t want a holiday where I have to wear a mask.

These requirements have been around for quite awhile. Nothing really new. The can change rules at any time due to circumstances. Have always done  this remember taking all the salt and pepper shakers off the table during Noro outbreaks ?

[nijh]

Yeah , I’ve been on such cruises.  However we have no mask requirements in everyday life in the UK, so it is sub-optimal to have mask requirements on a vacation. 

[Aladdin22]

12 hours ago, Pink-belle said:

Having seen an increase in onboard cases since the removal of masks required, I assume  that is the “May be required in select venues or situations”

pax who were positive were disembarked but not the crew,  with such high rates of infection currently in the UK,  it’s inevitable some embarked whilst incubating  Covid even though they had a negative test.  
 

Back to your original Post and advice to not Believe the website, why?The website actually says

Masks are recommended, but not required, in the majority of venues, though they may be required in select venues or situations. This will be clearly designated through signage and onboard announcements 

To me ‘recommended but not required’ means just that - not required. The ‘select venues’ Princess told me means the theatre and Princess Live (why?). Definitely not everywhere. I know Princess can change the rules but it doesn’t mean we have to like it. Sip and cover is different entirely and I’d never have booked if that was a stated rule. Mask yes but that no. 
 

In the UK we were told again this week by the health minister that we must live with Coronavirus and treat it no different to any other respiratory illness and I fully believe that. Sitting wearing masks isn’t normal living.  I think if I was so worried about catching it, I certainly wouldn’t book a cruise. 
 

Also I don’t think Princess help matters by letting untested passengers queue to embark alongside tested, negative ones.

[Daniel A]

23 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

What does the word “majority” mean to you? Try looking it up in a dictionary.

Recommended but not required = discretionary
 

Superior in this term means that a contract cannot override other criminal or civil laws. So for example I can’t sign a contract that would allow you to kill me as the criminal law would be “superior” and would not allow it.

 

As I said above I don’t disagree that they can impose masking but they need to be much more transparent to satisfy ASA. If you are imposing a blanket requirement across the entire ship then make it clear for those booking - is that not reasonable practice?

As you believe in your position so strongly, I would suggest filing a complaint with the ASA.  Maybe they'll change the wording on the website to suit your desire.

[Sunwanabe]

2 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

What does the word “majority” mean to you? Try looking it up in a dictionary.

Recommended but not required = discretionary
 

Superior in this term means that a contract cannot override other criminal or civil laws. So for example I can’t sign a contract that would allow you to kill me as the criminal law would be “superior” and would not allow it.

 

As I said above I don’t disagree that they can impose masking but they need to be much more transparent to satisfy ASA. If you are imposing a blanket requirement across the entire ship then make it clear for those booking - is that not reasonable practice?

 

That would be helpful in advance. I would look to cruise lines to be proactive. And if mandated needs to be backed up by enforcement. 

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

As you believe in your position so strongly, I would suggest filing a complaint with the ASA.  Maybe they'll change the wording on the website to suit your desire.

I intend to.

[Rudy888]

19 hours ago, Aladdin22 said:

Yes I understand that, but all those passengers aren’t on the ship any more and the ship has had a deep clean so why?

Yes, but the crew is.

[Daniel A]

22 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I intend to.

I'm curious to know if you would consider any of the three situations a violation of the ASA:

 

Princess advertises a sailing with a stop in Saint Petersburg but changes the port to another one in Sweden.

 

Princess advertises a sailing with a stop in Bora Bora, but Bora Bora has passed a law prohibiting entry of a ship that size, so the port of call is changed to another island or makes it a sea day.

 

Princess advertises that you are purchasing 7 days in a Club Class Mini Suite.  You test positive for Covid on the second day of the cruise and you are moved into an obstructed balcony in a quarantine area of the ship.

 

In all of these situations, Princess needed to deal with variables which were out of their control, even though they sold thousands of bookings.  The passage contract stipulates this type of action may need to be taken.  Are they still violations of the ASA?  

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

And indeed different legal systems.😀

And very different rules concerning booked cruises.

[mellon1]

22 hours ago, Aladdin22 said:

Yes I understand that, but all those passengers aren’t on the ship any more and the ship has had a deep clean so why?

How many had covid that it was massive??? I haven't seen any posts with covid on the Sky, just the Ruby.  

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

I intend to.

 

As a supplemental post, I'm not bantering with you.  I sincerely hope you can still get enjoyment out of your current cruise, and I hope your next cruise is much more enjoyable.  I booked my last cruise and my next two hoping that enough time has passed so I won't need to wear a mask either.  I won't want to sail on a cruise wearing a mask the whole time I'm on board.  I just don't think we should be blaming Princess for not providing the outcome we hoped for under the current conditions caused by the Covid pandemic.  Try to enjoy your time on board and deal with this after you return home...

Edited April 3, 2022 by Daniel A

[cruiseamm]

57 minutes ago, mellon1 said:

How many had covid that it was massive??? I haven't seen any posts with covid on the Sky, just the Ruby.  

Sky had wifi problems the entire cruise, not as many posts from passengers as the Ruby.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2767145-16-day-moroccan-passage-12-march-2022/?do=findComment&comment=62915472

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2767429-sky-princess-march-28-2022-canary-islands-12-night/?do=findComment&comment=62899338

 

 

[taznremmy]

19 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Of the ten HAL and Princess ships (passenger carrying) listed with the CDC, only the Discovery Princess is green. Seven ships are orange (CDC investigating).

 

Discovery was probably green because she just started her first passenger carrying cruise on March 28th.  😂

[mellon1]

12 minutes ago, cruiseamm said:

Sky had wifi problems the entire cruise, not as many posts from passengers as the Ruby.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2767145-16-day-moroccan-passage-12-march-2022/?do=findComment&comment=62915472

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2767429-sky-princess-march-28-2022-canary-islands-12-night/?do=findComment&comment=62899338

 

 

thank you so much for the links!!!!