Transatlantic : Carnival or HAL?

[Cindyast]

My husband and I are in our late 60s, youthful but not partiers. (I enjoy a party more than the husband.) I sailed on the Vista's inaugural cruise with two neighbor ladies, and enjoyed it, except for the smoking in the casino. Husband and I took the 7-night Mexican Riviera trip on the Oosterdam in 2019 and very much enjoyed it. We are finally ready to cruise again, with COVID hopefully mostly over, and are looking at a transatlantic in November 2023. We're booked on the inaugural Carnival Jubilee, 18 nights from Southhampton to Galveston. I've just found a 14-night Rome to Ft Lauderdale on HAL Nieuw Statendam at the same price except it includes WiFi, drinks, $200 onboard credit, and 2 shore excursions -- so, actually quite a bit cheaper. Now I can't decide which I'd prefer. Husband says, "It's a no-brainer" -- choose HAL. But I'm thinking the sedate lifestyle of an HAL cruise might not be very interesting for 14 nights (as opposed to the 7 on the Mexican Riviera cruise). On the other hand, dealing with 5,400 passengers plus crew for 18 days may get nutz. I realize these are two very different ships, very different styles. I've thought about booking a short Mexican or Alaskan cruise on a Carnival ship just so husband can see if he likes it, but the ships that ply those routes are much smaller. Will we get the feel?

 

Which would you choose for the TA, and why? 

[rkacruiser]

This is a toughie question for me, but, interesting.  I have sailed on HAL trans-Atlantics and enjoyed them.  Not the party-hardy group of guests, but, plenty of activities during the day and evening that I never became bored.  

 

The inaugural sailing of Carnival Jubilee would very much interest me.  Sailing on such a voyage has long been on my bucket list.  I would expect that there will be many Carnival-cruise type activities offered, but, there is likely to be some special events because it is an inaugural sailing.  

 

Surely, there will be a difference in the number of guests on both ships, but, long voyages like trans-Atlantics often don't sail close to capacity.  5400 guests on Jubilee?  I'd be surprised there will be close to that many.

 

Another thing to consider is that this crossing is Jubilee's first revenue cruise.  If so, new ships sometimes have initial start-up issues that can be bothersome to some guests.  However, since Jubilee will be the third ship of that Class, Carnival will have learned from Mardi Gras and Celebration's experiences when they entered service.  That should make for a "smoother" entry into service for Jubilee.  

 

26 minutes ago, Cindyast said:

I've thought about booking a short Mexican or Alaskan cruise on a Carnival ship just so husband can see if he likes it, but the ships that ply those routes are much smaller. Will we get the feel?

 

I have sailed on Carnival Freedom, Liberty, Pride, and Miracle.  None of these are as large as the Mardi Grass Class is.  "Will we get the feel"?  As far as the onboard atmosphere, yes, I would expect so.  But, the size difference?  No.  

 

What a delightful decision you have to make!  

[jsn55]

I wouldn't do a TA with 5398 other pax if you bought it for me.  Am I  correct in assuming that 'inaugural' for Carnival Jubilee means it's the first cruise?  I'd avoid a brand new ship.  But having stated my personal observations, down to your question.  My usual research go-to is CC for specific pax' ship reviews.  We've only sailed HAL once, and it was fine ... we are not partiers, but do enjoy things like production shows and trivia contests in the bar or lounge.  Love just lounging somewhere with a glass of champagne and watching the people, especially on formal night.  I do know that HAL is attempting to reinvent themselves as non-stodgy but after the last two years, who knows?  I have always had a negative image of Carnival as full of pax bent on drinking and eating and making lots of noise ... 'getting their money's worth' ... so that's something I'd avoid.  A TA might be too many days at sea with 'nothing to do', mobs of people in the restaurants & bars, making it difficult to enjoy yourselves without the partiers everywhere.  I would read 50 reviews of the HAL ship and book that if you don't find enough negatives to dissuade you.

[TheOldBear]

I would remind everyone to hang on - this thread is likely to be relocated to the "Transatlantic, Transpacific, Repositioning & Trans-Ocean Cruises" forum at any minute 🙂

 

Another option to consider for transatlantic crossings, is the transatlantic specialist Cunard's Queen Mary 2. QM2 crossings are a leisurely 7 days, but are the traditional 'nothing to do, and not enough time in the day to do it' with a program tuned for a season of repeated crossings, not just a once a season repositioning cruise.

 

You are also more likely to have elbow room - the QM2 at full capacity is only 2600 passengers, on a ship 90% the size of the Jubilee. Check out some of the reviews on this site and see if it sounds appealing.  

[pris993]

I have done a number of Trans Atlantic on Princess, Cunard, and HAL.  Never cruised Carnival, closes line to Carnival we have been on NCL.   To me this is a no brainer,  HAL.  

 

But wonder how you like sea days?  To me the difference between two cruises is basically how much you like sea days.  If you like sea days, HAL, not maybe Carnival. or another cruise.

 

[Cindyast]

Thanks so very much for the responses so far. We do like sea days. I'm buoyed by rkacruiser's thought that TA's don't often sail to capacity, and totally get jsn55's shiver at a TA with 5400 pax. Me too, which is one of the things that spurred the question. It may come down to a coin toss. Hope to hear from others, and to find this thread if it's moved. Somehow I missed the TA... forum. Thanks for the heads up.

[Flatbush Flyer]

20 minutes ago, Cindyast said:

Thanks so very much for the responses so far. We do like sea days. I'm buoyed by rkacruiser's thought that TA's don't often sail to capacity, and totally get jsn55's shiver at a TA with 5400 pax. Me too, which is one of the things that spurred the question. It may come down to a coin toss. Hope to hear from others, and to find this thread if it's moved. Somehow I missed the TA... forum. Thanks for the heads up.

You may also want to look at premium lines like Azamara and Oceania. Given their inclusive fares (e.g., air tix or air credit on O), you may be very surprised at a bottom line cost comparison with a line like HAL. Add to that more favorable space and crew ratios with small passenger loads and so much more...

BTW: if food quality is important to you, do consider Oceania. 

[Essiesmom]

In this case, I would choose HAL.  I have done transAtlantics on HAL, Celebrity, and Carnival.  Also longer cruises on all.  I like a nice afternoon nap, but on HAL and Celebrity, I had trouble fitting it in due to all the interesting activities, including great enrichment lectures.  my Carnival TA on Dream was by far the least expensive, but with a lot of sea days there was not one speaker.  Managed to get the naps in on that one.  I had several others booked that were Covid cancelled.  EM

[navybankerteacher]

Having sailed HAL on a number of TA repositionings - a good, inexpensive way to come home from travel in the Med - I think it’s a no-brainer.  Sure, HAL has continually downgraded the service, food, music, enrichment etc. in apparent efforts to catch up with Carnival’s  “economizing”,  but I feel they still haven’t quite caught up.  
 

Also, the likely demographic mix on HAL (as well as a hell of a lot fewer of them than on Carnival) is a significant plus.

Edited May 4, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Cindyast, your husband is right…go with HAL and the freebies!

[Corkman8]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:25 PM, Cindyast said:

My husband and I are in our late 60s, youthful but not partiers. (I enjoy a party more than the husband.) I sailed on the Vista's inaugural cruise with two neighbor ladies, and enjoyed it, except for the smoking in the casino. Husband and I took the 7-night Mexican Riviera trip on the Oosterdam in 2019 and very much enjoyed it. We are finally ready to cruise again, with COVID hopefully mostly over, and are looking at a transatlantic in November 2023. We're booked on the inaugural Carnival Jubilee, 18 nights from Southhampton to Galveston. I've just found a 14-night Rome to Ft Lauderdale on HAL Nieuw Statendam at the same price except it includes WiFi, drinks, $200 onboard credit, and 2 shore excursions -- so, actually quite a bit cheaper. Now I can't decide which I'd prefer. Husband says, "It's a no-brainer" -- choose HAL. But I'm thinking the sedate lifestyle of an HAL cruise might not be very interesting for 14 nights (as opposed to the 7 on the Mexican Riviera cruise). On the other hand, dealing with 5,400 passengers plus crew for 18 days may get nutz. I realize these are two very different ships, very different styles. I've thought about booking a short Mexican or Alaskan cruise on a Carnival ship just so husband can see if he likes it, but the ships that ply those routes are much smaller. Will we get the feel?

 

Which would you choose for the TA, and why?  HAL  wins!!!  Always confident that they will take care of things in a professional manner. Not so sure Carnival gets the attentive customer award.

 

[Corkman8]

HAL would be my first choice .  Much more professional than Carnival any day!!!

[Schlinger]

I just got off the Nieuw Statendam after a week long Mediterranean cruise. To say it was boring would be an understatement. The musicians would only play a few minutes each, and not every night. The timing means that if you're not done eating dinner at 7:30pm, you'll miss out on a lot of it. But even if you did find a chair to sit on at Lincoln Center Stage at 8pm, the sound setup is so horrible you have to be ignorant to enjoy it.  Who likes a lot of bass and infra bass with little mids ?  Rappers, I suppose?  And even if you do like the sound setup, the music stops at 10pm and the venues are relatively small and with very slow bar service.  Regarding the rest of the activities, there's not much going on at all.  They even had "paper rock scissors" as an "activity" listed on the daily !  They sail at (a little over) half capacity, but only half the buffet is open, so there is little advantage to be had from that reduced capacity, especially when factoring in the low crew numbers.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Schlinger said:

I just got off the Nieuw Statendam after a week long Mediterranean cruise. To say it was boring would be an understatement. The musicians would only play a few minutes each, and not every night. The timing means that if you're not done eating dinner at 7:30pm, you'll miss out on a lot of it. But even if you did find a chair to sit on at Lincoln Center Stage at 8pm, the sound setup is so horrible you have to be ignorant to enjoy it.  Who likes a lot of bass and infra bass with little mids ?  Rappers, I suppose?  And even if you do like the sound setup, the music stops at 10pm and the venues are relatively small and with very slow bar service.  Regarding the rest of the activities, there's not much going on at all.  They even had "paper rock scissors" as an "activity" listed on the daily !  They sail at (a little over) half capacity, but only half the buffet is open, so there is little advantage to be had from that reduced capacity, especially when factoring in the low crew numbers.

Perhaps it’s time for you to join the many other former HAL and Celebrity cruisers who “jumped ship” and never returned after trying a premium/luxury cruise line.

More expensive? Not necessarily (at least, on the premium lines), if you compare the true bottom line cost. This is especially true if you’re looking at an intercontinental itinerary requiring air travel (which may be built into the fare price of the right premium line.

[Schlinger]

12 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Perhaps it’s time for you to join the many other former HAL and Celebrity cruisers who “jumped ship” and never returned after trying a premium/luxury cruise line.

More expensive? Not necessarily (at least, on the premium lines), if you compare the true bottom line cost. This is especially true if you’re looking at an intercontinental itinerary requiring air travel (which may be built into the fare price of the right premium line.

I watched a few YouTube videos about the luxury and "almost luxury" lines. IMHO fares close to (or even over) $1,000 per night are a little too optimistic.  I do realize that I pay for a better cabin and better service and food as well as for the fact that there are less other guests on board, but in the post pandemic cruise world I have seen these past two months, this latter point is also true for the mainstream lines, so we're talking roughly 5 times the price of a regular cruise.  That's a lot of lobster and champagne :-). It's probably something I'll try some day, during a sale, but right now I'm looking into the "almost luxury" lines like Azamara and Oceania.  The "best cuisine at Sea" is a very appealing feature IMHO.  The only thing I'm not so sure about is the smaller size if these ships in terms of stability.

[kaymoz]

In the almost-luxury category, we *really* appreciated Windstar.  But who knows what a ship that small would be like for a week of sea days! 

 

[kaymoz]

One other factor I'd consider in the assessment of economy is how much extra it would cost for an oceanview or even a balcony cabin...for a TA (especially a long one) you might spend more time in your cabin than on a voyage where you are out touring every day, so the view might mean more.  Personally, I love that fresh ocean air even if it's cold! We opted for a balcony when we did TA and were so glad!

[buzz031]

Sometimes it comes down to itinerary or the departure port. Have you been to Rome or London? You might want to spend a week or two in either place before the cruise. With Southampton, you can fly into LHR and visit London (go to a show or two), see multiple sites, then rent a car to drive to Stonehenge before getting to Southampton (spend the night) or if you aren't that adventurous to drive on the other side of the road, take the excursion to the ship that takes you to Stonehenge and then board the ship. With Rome, you have the same advantage of seeing Rome (the Forum, the Colosseum) before getting down to the port (Civitavecchia). If you have been to both Rome and London and are just flying over to cruise back, then I'd look closely at the ports of call (which look the most interesting to you?). 

[JimmyTheSaint]

Carnival, have done one Transatlantic with them and have another booked on Carnival Pride later this year. 

 

I'm not a partier, don't drink alcohol, but enjoy the Fun ships. Horses for courses. I'm the sort of person who would never consider HAL, Cunard, etc

Edited July 3, 2022 by JimmyTheSaint

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 6/11/2022 at 4:34 AM, Schlinger said:

 That's a lot of lobster and champagne :-). It's probably something I'll try some day, during a sale, but right now I'm looking into the "almost luxury" lines like Azamara and Oceania.  The "best cuisine at Sea" is a very appealing feature IMHO. 

Most importantly, the difference between premium and luxury lines is NOT the quality of food and service. Rather, as is the case of Oceania and sister line Regent, it is the degree of “included” vs a la carte amenities.
 

In any case, while there certainly is lobster available daily (even at the poolside Waves), that’s not what sets O’s culinary excellence apart from all other cruise lines.

Here’s a random lunch menu from our current cruise ARN-LIS-NYC:

Edited July 3, 2022 by Flatbush Flyer

[Heidi13]

On 6/11/2022 at 12:04 AM, Schlinger said:

I watched a few YouTube videos about the luxury and "almost luxury" lines. IMHO fares close to (or even over) $1,000 per night are a little too optimistic.  I do realize that I pay for a better cabin and better service and food as well as for the fact that there are less other guests on board, but in the post pandemic cruise world I have seen these past two months, this latter point is also true for the mainstream lines, so we're talking roughly 5 times the price of a regular cruise.  That's a lot of lobster and champagne :-). It's probably something I'll try some day, during a sale, but right now I'm looking into the "almost luxury" lines like Azamara and Oceania.  The "best cuisine at Sea" is a very appealing feature IMHO.  The only thing I'm not so sure about is the smaller size if these ships in terms of stability.

 

I can clarify a couple of points.

 

Stability

The size of a ship is another myth perpetrated by many passengers, but in fact, the ship's stability has little to do with size. It is affected by the ship's design and how the ship is loaded. When considering sea keeping abilities, again the ship's size has little bearing, as ship design and scantlings are the primary factors. Personally, I would much rather sail on the old smaller, steam powered liners (if they were still around), rather than any of the massive, modern mega ships. On SS Oriana & SS Canberra we could handle most seas at 20 to 25 kts. Your modern mega ships would have to reduce speed significantly, probably to around 10 kts.

 

Cost Comparison

After spending 40 yrs both working for and cruising with Princess, we now sail exclusively with a "Premium" cruise line. We completed World Cruises with Princess and a premium line. While the base fare of the premium line was double the Princess fare, the final per day cost was identical, with the standards on the premium line, vastly superior. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

.....Cost Comparison

After spending 40 yrs both working for and cruising with Princess, we now sail exclusively with a "Premium" cruise line. We completed World Cruises with Princess and a premium line. While the base fare of the premium line was double the Princess fare, the final per day cost was identical, with the standards on the premium line, vastly superior. 

Amen. 
If folks who need/want more than a “bare bones” cruise experience (e.g., the addition of beverages, internet, gratuities, airfare, excursions, booze, specialty restaurants, SBC, etc), and who desire/expect quality,  would just do the real total cost “bottom line” math comparison of “premium” lines to what many would consider the top tier of “mass market” lines like Celebrity, HAL, Princess, Disney, et al., they would be pleasantly surprised. 

[Rick&Jeannie]

Have you seen the latest news about 2 separate Carnival cruises where fights have broken out?  Carnival is just a completely different atmosphere from what MOST people want in a TA.

[rkacruiser]

On 7/9/2022 at 3:48 PM, Rick&Jeannie said:

Have you seen the latest news about 2 separate Carnival cruises where fights have broken out?  Carnival is just a completely different atmosphere from what MOST people want in a TA.

 

Must be the same kind of idiots that have caused issues on many flights.  I don't think the airlines and the cruise lines do enough to discourage such behavior.  How about a lifetime No Fly List; No Cruise List?  

[jsn55]

5 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Must be the same kind of idiots that have caused issues on many flights.  I don't think the airlines and the cruise lines do enough to discourage such behavior.  How about a lifetime No Fly List; No Cruise List?  

Whaaaat?  Give up that potential revenue?