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Carnival Cruise Line to Bring Costa Venezia to the U.S. In 2023, Costa Firenze in 2024


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8 hours ago, Dunk said:

I sailed on Costa years ago (in the 90's) out of Miami on the defunct Costa Allegra. The ship was really pretty, but it was a different time (fixed seating only) and no one else at my table spoke English. That was painful! That time, and the times I've sailed MSC, I've enjoyed the European atmosphere but hated all announcements being in a multitude of languages. (On a recent MSC cruise, one droned on for ~20 minutes!) I assume with this new experience, that won't be a thing. 

 

Often heard that about the lengthy announcements on MSC. What a turn off.  That said, Costa didn't do that last month on the Firenze. They had 2 minute announcements in 3 languages about the ship having docked and then another to let people know they can get off. That's it.

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9 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I kind of agree but maybe it's the opposite that everyone thinks and it will be a cheaper option as to not degrade the Carnival product? A lot of people like European cruises because they are cheap and have interesting itineraries. Maybe this can be duplicated here? Some of the competition (like Oceania) already do longer cruises from the LA/SF areas and a lot of people have been wanting additional west coast ports stops beyond the Mex Riv. They may not need to replicate the 24-day cruises entirely (though on my bucket list) but some 10-14 day cruises that get on down into South America would be interesting to be sure. Running cheaper HI cruises could be another option, some of those are a bit pricey and getting the fares a bit lower may increase demand. I've been seeing crazy deals for Alaska right now (some ridiculous and on premium lines) so I'm thinking this idea that they will move these ships here and try and make a luxury product out of them may not be taking into account softer demand.     

 

I think Carnival took 2 of the newest ships from Costa because it allows them to increase capacity / compensate for the scrapped ships on the cheap and because they can make more money with American passengers who are both more willing and able to spend money. In addition to that, the cruise season is much longer in the Caribbean than in the Mediterranean.

 

Regarding the brand positioning, I guess we'll have to see what pricing they will set: "Costa by Carnival" could mean Italian lifestyle made accessible to American consumers by ironing out some of the incompatibilities.  Or it could be an attempt to extract more money out of the guests without much added perceived value, in which case it would fail. I'm curious to see how they will position this brand and what changes will be made. 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

I would too. Where could you see them homeporting if it was to happen?

 

I'd say have one in Jacksonville to do 7-day cruises. Maybe swap out the Legend in Baltimore to give them a new ship? Have the Legend or Pride move to South Florida?

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5 hours ago, Schlinger said:

 

I think Carnival took 2 of the newest ships from Costa because it allows them to increase capacity / compensate for the scrapped ships on the cheap and because they can make more money with American passengers who are both more willing and able to spend money. In addition to that, the cruise season is much longer in the Caribbean than in the Mediterranean.

 

Regarding the brand positioning, I guess we'll have to see what pricing they will set: "Costa by Carnival" could mean Italian lifestyle made accessible to American consumers by ironing out some of the incompatibilities.  Or it could be an attempt to extract more money out of the guests without much added perceived value, in which case it would fail. I'm curious to see how they will position this brand and what changes will be made. 

 

 

 

Possibly only means they are keeping the Costa livery so they can easily send them back to Costa if the global situation changes. 

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2 hours ago, toad455 said:

 

I'd say have one in Jacksonville to do 7-day cruises. Maybe swap out the Legend in Baltimore to give them a new ship? Have the Legend or Pride move to South Florida?

Baltimore does not get new ships because of the height of the Bay Bridge. 

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13 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Correct, and also the FSK Bridge. I wonder how big the ships would be if the bridges weren't a height restricter.

The port could probably handle any size. Might need a different terminal. They are going to build a new Bay Bridge and possibly tear down the old one but that would leave the Key Bridge as an impediment. 

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16 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

I would too. Where could you see them homeporting if it was to happen?


If Carnival (Corp) ends up buying back Atlantica/Mediterranea and are sent to Carnival, Elation/Paradise would be out unless the demand is that strong. 
 

There is also the two Chinese Vistas as well, but I’m not sure how much say Carnival has being the minority partner. 

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43 minutes ago, CruiseAdict218 said:


If Carnival (Corp) ends up buying back Atlantica/Mediterranea and are sent to Carnival, Elation/Paradise would be out unless the demand is that strong. 
 

There is also the two Chinese Vistas as well, but I’m not sure how much say Carnival has being the minority partner. 

I didn't think about Elation + Paradise gone......

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1 minute ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

I didn't think about Elation + Paradise gone......

Granted they are only slightly older than Atlantica/Mediterranea but I’m not sure if they can handle that much added capacity so.
 

I would hate to see them go but if it comes down to it, that would probably be the decision but it really depends on how much say they have with the joint venture as those are the final ships not in service and I don’t think that market will be open any time soon. 

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1 hour ago, CruiseAdict218 said:


If Carnival (Corp) ends up buying back Atlantica/Mediterranea and are sent to Carnival, Elation/Paradise would be out unless the demand is that strong. 
 

There is also the two Chinese Vistas as well, but I’m not sure how much say Carnival has being the minority partner. 

The only way a foreign cruise line will succeed in China is using Chinese built ships. China made that clear a long time ago. Same with Boeing planes - if Boeing wants China to buy their planes, Boeing is going to have to shift some work to China.

 

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On 6/22/2022 at 8:40 AM, CruiseAdict218 said:

 

Firenze would sail along side Panorama and Venezia along side Magic from NYC; though I wonder if they would tweak Panorama or Magic's sailings to make room. 

 

Should also note, this pair was originally destined for China and sailing from that region doesn't seem to be on the books for the immediate future. 

 

With the pair remaining in Costa livery, I wouldn't expect any other ships to exit the fleet; one is a nice boost for NYC which really had its season cut down mixing it with Norfolk but I'm curious if they will move out Miracle or Radiance from the West side.

Would be nice if they kept Miracle in SF year round, as Princess does with the Ruby

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1 hour ago, Z0nker said:

Would be nice if they kept Miracle in SF year round, as Princess does with the Ruby

That could be possible, no sense in having Miracle in Long Beach with Panorama, Radiance and now Firenze so something will have to give (again unless they predict record demand). 

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27 minutes ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

That could be possible, no sense in having Miracle in Long Beach with Panorama, Radiance and now Firenze so something will have to give (again unless they predict record demand). 

If both Firenze and Panorama are doing 7 day itineraries, one presumably would so on Saturdays and the other on Sundays. That would leave Monday and Friday for short cruises. The only way four ships work is if the 3 day sailings leave on Monday and Tuesday, and the 4 day sailings leave on Thursday and Friday.

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I think I could see Miracle in SF year round, there isn't a lot of room for 4 ships. It would also work out with the current cruises only being announced through April 2024 so Firenze could start in the summer when Miracle could go to SF without canceling any already announce cruises.

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On 6/23/2022 at 11:25 AM, Schlinger said:

 

I cruised on the Costa Firenze last month and found it to be similar to the Carnival Horizon, even though the Horizon felt smaller. That said, when I was on the Horizon in late 2019, it was absolutely packed and all the pools were full of children.

This was my first Costa Cruise and I only ever read bad things about it on (American) websites and (American) social media. Yet all my (European) friends and their families cruised on Costa and liked it, so I decided to try it.  As a European myself, there were a few things that I disliked on "American" ships that I liked better on Costa, but there are also a few things that the "American" ships do better. What Carnival should do is keep the stuff Costa does better and change the stuff they don't do as well in order to give their customers a perfect cruise that exceeds all their expectations.  I'd gladly point out the details to CCL in exchange for a few complimentary cruises where I could check that they were implemented correctly. 😁

 

Glad to see someone else who has sailed Costa. I usually sail on one of their longer cruises once a year but Covid had put a stop to that. I love their itineraries.

I am booked on the Costa Toscana Dubai to Rome through the Suez Canal March 2023.

 

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1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Royal also beats Carnival in earnings per share. -20.79 (RCL) vs -8.31 (CCL).

If I'm reading that correctly, that means Royal is losing around $12.50 per share more than Carnival.

 

The only thing it means is there are fewer shares of Royal in circulation. $CCL was up around 12% Friday, $RCL was up around 16%. 

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There are some pretty strong hints from the recent CCL Earnings Call.  Carnival Corporation & plc (CCL) Q2 2022 Earnings Call Transcript | AlphaStreet   

 

So the magic number is occupancy.  In 2019 the breakeven was around 70% and you had the ships at 103% or more and there were excellent profits.

 

These days, breakeven is closer to 80%, and the lines are struggling to hit that.  Every ship that is still parked, and every cruise that is 54% full counts as a loss.  But they say the US voyages are over 100% full.  You don't see Carnival seven day and up voyages on sale much.   

 

A guess is some of the Carnival brands are struggling.  Calling HQ and asking for money in June, 2022 is bad form.  And the Med is not a gold mine at the moment and the season is short.   

 

It is too bad NY and Boston are unpopular year round ports.  I am personally happy to be at sea, but many wish to be in a lounger by the pool, which is not a thing in January.  

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