Carnival Cruise Line to Bring Costa Venezia to the U.S. In 2023, Costa Firenze in 2024

[CarnivalShips480]

1 hour ago, ew101 said:

There are some pretty strong hints from the recent CCL Earnings Call.  Carnival Corporation & plc (CCL) Q2 2022 Earnings Call Transcript | AlphaStreet   

 

So the magic number is occupancy.  In 2019 the breakeven was around 70% and you had the ships at 103% or more and there were excellent profits.

 

These days, breakeven is closer to 80%, and the lines are struggling to hit that.  Every ship that is still parked, and every cruise that is 54% full counts as a loss.  But they say the US voyages are over 100% full.  You don't see Carnival seven day and up voyages on sale much.   

 

A guess is some of the Carnival brands are struggling.  Calling HQ and asking for money in June, 2022 is bad form.  And the Med is not a gold mine at the moment and the season is short.   

 

It is too bad NY and Boston are unpopular year round ports.  I am personally happy to be at sea, but many wish to be in a lounger by the pool, which is not a thing in January.  

Carnival is putting Costa Venezia in NY next year

[CruiseAdict218]

3 hours ago, ew101 said:

There are some pretty strong hints from the recent CCL Earnings Call.  Carnival Corporation & plc (CCL) Q2 2022 Earnings Call Transcript | AlphaStreet   

 

So the magic number is occupancy.  In 2019 the breakeven was around 70% and you had the ships at 103% or more and there were excellent profits.

 

These days, breakeven is closer to 80%, and the lines are struggling to hit that.  Every ship that is still parked, and every cruise that is 54% full counts as a loss.  But they say the US voyages are over 100% full.  You don't see Carnival seven day and up voyages on sale much.   

 

A guess is some of the Carnival brands are struggling.  Calling HQ and asking for money in June, 2022 is bad form.  And the Med is not a gold mine at the moment and the season is short.   

 

It is too bad NY and Boston are unpopular year round ports.  I am personally happy to be at sea, but many wish to be in a lounger by the pool, which is not a thing in January.  

I don’t really understand how it’s not more popular if Royal Caribbean and NCL have no problem sailing year round, just need to have better itineraries than Port Canaveral/Nassau/Freeport. 
 

 

1 hour ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Carnival is putting Costa Venezia in NY next year

Traditionally though Carnival has struggled with NY, seasonally they do well but their year round service never paid off, but like I said above if they offer something better than Bahamas it could work.

 

and we also don’t know if this will be year round or seasonal, my assumption is year round but let’s see if they cook up some exciting itineraries, throwing in a stop to Charleston or Newport/Boston would go a long way or even some 9-10 day cruises. If MSC thinks they can do it, so can Carnival. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by CruiseAdict218

[tidecat]

I don't think Charleston will be an option for a port of call long term. There is a capacity limit (3,500 passengers) that would preclude the Vista/Venice class ships from calling there. Charleston is also limiting itself to 104 calls annually.

 

[CruiseAdict218]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

I don't think Charleston will be an option for a port of call long term. There is a capacity limit (3,500 passengers) that would preclude the Vista/Venice class ships from calling there. Charleston is also limiting itself to 104 calls annually.

 

No you’re right, I was thinking at least for the maiden season before they kick Carnival out completely in 2024 but I didn’t know there was also a capacity limit, oh well. 

[Illbcruzn4life]

you need some 10 day itineraries to get into the Caribbean from NY but then you don't have that many people who can get off for that long a period of time.. Catch 22

[Itried4498]

On 6/24/2022 at 12:39 PM, tidecat said:

If both Firenze and Panorama are doing 7 day itineraries, one presumably would so on Saturdays and the other on Sundays. That would leave Monday and Friday for short cruises. The only way four ships work is if the 3 day sailings leave on Monday and Tuesday, and the 4 day sailings leave on Thursday and Friday.

 

Lots of possibilities...

 

-- It's scheduled to enter service in Long Beach in Spring 2024.  That's a long time from now -- equivalent to the entire duration of time that's eclipsed since the start of the pandemic.  Perhaps the European market rebounds much faster than Carnival anticipates, and the transfer is cancelled (they're not being re-branded, after all).  

 

-- Costa by Carnival could be based out of San Pedro, utilizing Princess (owned by Carnival Corp.) staffing and facilities.

 

-- The Firenza could be used to open new itineraries.  In the past, Carnival has identified year-round service to Hawaii, seasonal service to Alaska and extended Mexican Riviera itineraries for potential expansion.  In the late 2000s, it announced Southern Mexican Riviera itineraries, but ultimately launched service from San Diego instead as reaching Long Beach was too much of a stretch for a 7-day itinerary.  Perception of crime quickly killed the service, but there's renewed interest in the region today.  The southern ports could be combined with the northern ports to create an extended itinerary (more than a week), which Carnival identified as an area for growth.

 

-- The Firenza could absorb the itineraries of the Miracle, Radiance or even Panorama -- Carnival may feel that the Italian ambiance would be most welcomed in Los Angeles.

 

-- IMO, Carnival isn't going to give-up year-round, week-long itineraries into the Mexican Riviera (currently performed by the Panorama) or the weekend itineraries to Ensenada.  The Ensenada cruises are largely booze cruises, so I'd be shocked if the Firenza took those over...

 

Time will tell...

[tidecat]

I would think Miracle's routes out of Long Beach would most likely be on the chopping block of Firenze uses that terminal. Those could be moved to San Diego or San Francisco.

 

Of course if a ship is doing 9+ day itineraries, that may open up more options for Long Beach.

[BlerkOne]

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested the obvious - Radiance and/or Panorama are redeployed somewhere else.

[jedi bobs]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested the obvious - Radiance and/or Panorama are redeployed somewhere else.

While Raidance could be redeployed anywhere and can go though the Panamal Cannal, Panarama can not do that so to redeploy somewhere other than the west coast or the Pacific would require it to go down to the tip of South America and arould.

 

[CarnivalShips480]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested the obvious - Radiance and/or Panorama are redeployed somewhere else.

Radiance would make more sense to move because Panorama would have to go back around Cape horn. That is assuming that it would be redeployed to the east coast but Panorama could just go to another West coast port.

 

I'll be finished thinking of my 2024 fleet homeport plans soon

 

Edit: I didn't see the above post before writing this, sorry for saying the same thing

Edited June 26, 2022 by CarnivalShips480

[BlerkOne]

52 minutes ago, jedi bobs said:

While Raidance could be redeployed anywhere and can go though the Panamal Cannal, Panarama can not do that so to redeploy somewhere other than the west coast or the Pacific would require it to go down to the tip of South America and arould.

 

Before the Panama Canal expansion, Carnival would do it with Splendor. It's a nice cruise.

[CruiseAdict218]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested the obvious - Radiance and/or Panorama are redeployed somewhere else.

 

1 hour ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Radiance would make more sense to move because Panorama would have to go back around Cape horn. That is assuming that it would be redeployed to the east coast but Panorama could just go to another West coast port.

 

I'll be finished thinking of my 2024 fleet homeport plans soon

 

Edit: I didn't see the above post before writing this, sorry for saying the same thing

 

The move would only be temporary so I would think another West Coast port, there is no clear time table yet as to how long Venezia/Firenze stay in the fleet (should it not get cancelled).

[Itried4498]

3 hours ago, tidecat said:

I would think Miracle's routes out of Long Beach would most likely be on the chopping block of Firenze uses that terminal. Those could be moved to San Diego or San Francisco.

 

Of course if a ship is doing 9+ day itineraries, that may open up more options for Long Beach.

 

The Venezia has slightly more capacity than the Panorama.  I can't imagine Carnival putting either ship on the 3/4-day Ensenada cruises.  Status quo, the Radiance and RCL's Navigator (which re-entered the market in the COVID era) have 3x the capacity that the Inspiration (which performed the route for nearly a decade) did, and 33% more than the Inspiration and Imagination combined (the latter operated the same itinerary but Th-Sun, which attracted a lot of non-locals).  Both Radiance and Navigator have struggled with occupancy this year...

 

The Miracle?  Maybe, but Carnival would be doubling the capacity... 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the plan is to move the Panorama and use the Veneiz, as Carnival believes LA would be the best fit for its product.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Carnival's hoping the Asian markets rebound by 2024 and they can cancel these movements ... 🙂

 

 

[CruiseAdict218]

18 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

The Venezia has slightly more capacity than the Panorama.  I can't imagine Carnival putting either ship on the 3/4-day Ensenada cruises.  Status quo, the Radiance and RCL's Navigator (which re-entered the market in the COVID era) have 3x the capacity that the Inspiration (which performed the route for nearly a decade) did, and 33% more than the Inspiration and Imagination combined (the latter operated the same itinerary but Th-Sun, which attracted a lot of non-locals).  Both Radiance and Navigator have struggled with occupancy this year...

 

The Miracle?  Maybe, but Carnival would be doubling the capacity... 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the plan is to move the Panorama and use the Veneiz, as Carnival believes LA would be the best fit for its product.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Carnival's hoping the Asian markets rebound by 2024 and they can cancel these movements ... 🙂

 

 

Firenze is going to Long Beach (2024), Venezia to New York (2023). I wouldn't expect this pair back in the region, until the joint venture takes off I would assume, as their first Vista is due to be complete in 2023, market would be slow at first anyway no?

[cmichael1221]

On 6/23/2022 at 12:48 PM, Charles4515 said:

 

Carnival already has something nicer. Holland America and Princess......

 

When Costa sailed out of the US it seemed to be a budget brand. Got terrible reviews too. I don't see it being made over into a upscale brand.

I'm well aware of Carnival's other brands.  Thanks.

[tidecat]

MSC certainly has been willing to get in a price war as well

[tidecat]

9 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 

The Venezia has slightly more capacity than the Panorama.  I can't imagine Carnival putting either ship on the 3/4-day Ensenada cruises.  Status quo, the Radiance and RCL's Navigator (which re-entered the market in the COVID era) have 3x the capacity that the Inspiration (which performed the route for nearly a decade) did, and 33% more than the Inspiration and Imagination combined (the latter operated the same itinerary but Th-Sun, which attracted a lot of non-locals).  Both Radiance and Navigator have struggled with occupancy this year...

 

The Miracle?  Maybe, but Carnival would be doubling the capacity... 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the plan is to move the Panorama and use the Veneiz, as Carnival believes LA would be the best fit for its product.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Carnival's hoping the Asian markets rebound by 2024 and they can cancel these movements ... 🙂

 

 

I am saying both Panorama and Venezia would be doing primarily 7-day cruises. Radiance would be doing 3/4 day cruises, and Miracle would have to move out of Long Beach.

[CarnivalShips480]

Miracle can do SF, but maybe Firenze could do 9/5 and also longer cruises to Hawaii

[CruiseAdict218]

1 hour ago, ChC said:

Originally Carnival was to position 2 ships in Australia market before Covid. So I would not be surprised to see the 2 Costa ships coming in, and one Carnival ship moved to Australia.

Costa Luminosa will be rebranded into Carnival Luminosa and will sail seasonally from Australia (along with Splendor) and Alaska. 

[CarnivalShips480]

Meaning that Splendor and Luminosa are in Australia together, but only Luminosa is seasonal after this summer

[foodsvcmgr]

The reference to being staffed by Carnival crew interesting.

Not sure how they are really different. 
Costa has not had an Italian service staff for decades, the same international, heavily Filipino crew as Carnival has.

Both lines have Italian captains.

The most notable change they could make would be a front office staff in tune with American cruisers needs and preferences.

And entertainment adjusted for the American market, a frequent complaint with MSC.

Will be very interesting to see how this hybrid experience is positioned and how it actually operates in practice.

[CarnivalShips480]

Saw today in a board that Venezia will get "Carnivalized"

[foodsvcmgr]

Could you elaborate on that please and if permitted direct us to the source?

Thanks.

[mz-s]

On 6/25/2022 at 1:26 PM, tidecat said:

I don't think Charleston will be an option for a port of call long term. There is a capacity limit (3,500 passengers) that would preclude the Vista/Venice class ships from calling there. Charleston is also limiting itself to 104 calls annually.

 

 

Charleston plans to continue port of call operations, but does not wish to be a homeport after 2024. So we could see cruises from the Northern US call to Charleston on their way to Bermuda, the Bahamas, etc.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the capacity limits increased if port of call demand is there.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised to see the entire property sold and turned into mid-rise condos by the end of this decade.

 

It's a shame because Charleston is a beautiful city and a great place to get on a cruise for a lot of people. But there's no sense crying over spilled milk.

[CarnivalShips480]

12 hours ago, foodsvcmgr said:

Could you elaborate on that please and if permitted direct us to the source?

Thanks.

Post from a board in Costa is below 👇

On 7/12/2022 at 1:31 PM, Dancer Bob said:

Mentioned Venezia to a New York-based organiser who does a lot of business with Costa. Her Costa contact said the ships are expected to be completely Carnival-ised, staff on Carnival contracts, etc etc. They don't expect it to be a Costa experience and it wouldn't be suitable for her.