Rare Engineroom Snipe Posted August 30, 2023 #101 Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 hours ago, ONECRUISER said: I remember 50 yrs ago there was lot of pay Toilets like at Airports, Dad use to make me crawl under... Yes, It was late 1960's, many larger discount stores, (Garwood, at Race Track Circle, in Cherry Hill, NJ) did the same thing at the time. I remember it so many years ago because I had to do the same thing you did. I hope we do not go back to those times again. 🫣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare HappyTexan44 Posted August 30, 2023 #102 Share Posted August 30, 2023 8 hours ago, cynt said: I don't consider $1.50 nickel and diming. I mean it's a $1.50. Think about the definition of nickel and diming. After all, it isn't "ten dollars and twenty dollars." It means getting small amounts here and there. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ret MP Posted August 30, 2023 #103 Share Posted August 30, 2023 I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here. It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50. It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare. Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships. At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget. If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for. Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there. But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years). I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included. It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time4u2go Posted August 30, 2023 #104 Share Posted August 30, 2023 33 minutes ago, Ret MP said: I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here. It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50. It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare. Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships. At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget. If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for. Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there. But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years). I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included. It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. Excellent post! I think some posters just don't see the big picture. The cruise experience is slowly being chipped away, little by little. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD64 Posted August 30, 2023 #105 Share Posted August 30, 2023 39 minutes ago, Ret MP said: I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here. It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50. It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare. Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships. At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget. If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for. Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there. But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years). I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included. It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. $100 for a hotel room? May I ask where in the world this is possible? $100 won’t even buy you a spot under the canopy at any hotel in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Engineroom Snipe Posted August 30, 2023 #106 Share Posted August 30, 2023 35 minutes ago, Ret MP said: I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here. It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50. It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare. Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships. At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget. If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for. Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there. But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years). I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included. It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. For 2023, the CEO thinks things are great and going in the proper direction. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/royal-caribbean-just-raised-earnings-guidance-for-the-second-time-this-year-heres-why-im-bullish-on-the-stock/ar-AA1fucMR One especially pertinent quote to the small add-ons addressed in this economic post: Despite an encouraging increase in onboard guest expenditure, the amount passengers spent on experiences aboard Royal Caribbean cruises "remains lower than the long-term trend line," according to Liberty. (CEO Jason Liberty) They need to get more money out of the passenger during the cruise using any method possible. RCI is already charging more for the items that have an additional fee. The only way to make more money is to start charging for items that were previously included in the cruise price. Supply and demand. I cannot wait until 2025. This is going to get interesting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ret MP Posted August 30, 2023 #107 Share Posted August 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, RD64 said: $100 for a hotel room? May I ask where in the world this is possible? $100 won’t even buy you a spot under the canopy at any hotel in Vancouver. We just stayed in a Marriott Court Yard in Gulfport, MS for $89.00 a night. Of course, you have to use all available discounts (veterans for example). But, if you shop, you will find good deals and it doesn't HAVE to be at budget hotels either. Timing and research is everything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Baltic Posted August 30, 2023 #108 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Ret MP said: I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here. It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50. It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare. Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships. At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget. If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for. Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there. But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years). I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included. It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. Couldn’t have said it better. 👏🏻 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare HappyTexan44 Posted August 30, 2023 #109 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Ret MP said: It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. And it used to be that only the upper middle class cruised. I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, and while some parents cruised it was a Big Deal and certainly not something they did every year. I never knew a kid that was taken along. But, there seems to be a lot more cruise ships now. They'll have empty spaces unless they expand the market some other way. Which means prices will have to come down. An interesting idea might be for them to say, "The price is $$$ and it comes with $$ spending credits." Sort of like cheap comedy club tickets that came with a two drink minimum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ret MP Posted August 30, 2023 #110 Share Posted August 30, 2023 27 minutes ago, HappyTexan44 said: And it used to be that only the upper middle class cruised. Yep, the bad old days! It turned around but now trying to move back again, it seems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish65 Posted August 30, 2023 #111 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said: Supply and demand. I cannot wait until 2025. This is going to get interesting. how will things be different in 2025? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Engineroom Snipe Posted August 30, 2023 #112 Share Posted August 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, goldfish65 said: how will things be different in 2025? I have made comments about how a majority of repeat, regular cruisers, book years in advance. I am one of those cruisers. I booked my 2023 cruises (three) around July, 2022 when the prices were half of the current 120 days before departure prices this year. In some cases these prices are almost three times more than what I paid. That is not inflation or the cost of operations. That is supply and demand, I got it. I would be paying almost three time more ($3000 versus $1000) to select an interior room. My balcony rooms are a minimum of half the current prices in premium locations which I picked. I booked two cruises for 2024 in September of 2022. Again, one cruise is almost 1/3 of the current asking price and the other is between 1/2 and 1/3 and these again were selected rooms. This is the scenario. Regular repeat cruisers snapped up very good prices last year for reservations for 2023 and 2024. Combine this uptick in reservations with "revenge cruising vacations" where money was no object" at the end of covid situation. No vaccine requirement or testing after about December, 2022. Cruisers were informed that they had to use their future cruise credits that they might have had for two years. I believe that this year will be a banner year and next year will be a good year for RCI occupancy. The current prices being offered in 2024 are substantially higher than what I have paid. Add to the continuous money saving cuts to meals and service (my opinion after thirty-five years of cruising, mostly on RCI), I am holding off on any more 2024 reservations and not making any 2025 reservations at this time. RCI will only start to see people like myself disappear about February of next year (2024) because I normally would have at least three more reservations for later 2024 and 2025. They will try and hold the prices up as long as possible. If more cruisers, like myself, start doing the same thing, there is going to be a big hole in confirmed future reservations. The prices will probably start coming down in 2025. RCI needs to lure those cruisers who commit in advance so they can raise prices as the cruise gets closer to embarking. This has been the cruise model, early reservations get the best price but one must commit money up-front for years to get that price and the room location of choice. I do not mind doing that but I am not committing early money on a deposit for a price I feel is not proper. I feel these prices will go down in 2025 and I have nothing to lose by waiting. If they go up from now, than I was not going to purchase them anyway. No loss. I spend the money elsewhere. I am not committing to pay existing prices for the quality of food now being offered. If you are going to offer me lower quality food offerings as part of the base price, I want a lower price than they think it is worth. That is my reasoning. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateUpNorth Posted August 30, 2023 #113 Share Posted August 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said: I have made comments about how a majority of repeat, regular cruisers, book years in advance. I am one of those cruisers. I booked my 2023 cruises (three) around July, 2022 when the prices were half of the current 120 days before departure prices this year. In some cases these prices are almost three times more than what I paid. That is not inflation or the cost of operations. That is supply and demand, I got it. ............................... Your entire post is 100% spot on. Whilst we don't book as many as 2 or 3 a year we always book a year or more in advance. At current prices we aren't even looking at 2024. So eventually I believe there will be a gap where the current strategy will HAVE to be reconsidered. Minimal long term commitments on the books and nobody paying the short term rates either. Additionally the industry may be setting itself up for a perfect storm. Should the greater economy experience a pullback or significant downturn in the near future they're going to need people committed to the "12 months out" vacation. As in "it's already paid for/ got a huge deposit on it, we'll go anyway but after that we're cutting back." It could get very interesting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ret MP Posted August 30, 2023 #114 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said: I have made comments about how a majority of repeat, regular cruisers, book years in advance. I am one of those cruisers. I booked my 2023 cruises (three) around July, 2022 when the prices were half of the current 120 days before departure prices this year. In some cases these prices are almost three times more than what I paid. That is not inflation or the cost of operations. That is supply and demand, I got it. I would be paying almost three time more ($3000 versus $1000) to select an interior room. My balcony rooms are a minimum of half the current prices in premium locations which I picked. I booked two cruises for 2024 in September of 2022. Again, one cruise is almost 1/3 of the current asking price and the other is between 1/2 and 1/3 and these again were selected rooms. This is the scenario. Regular repeat cruisers snapped up very good prices last year for reservations for 2023 and 2024. Combine this uptick in reservations with "revenge cruising vacations" where money was no object" at the end of covid situation. No vaccine requirement or testing after about December, 2022. Cruisers were informed that they had to use their future cruise credits that they might have had for two years. I believe that this year will be a banner year and next year will be a good year for RCI occupancy. The current prices being offered in 2024 are substantially higher than what I have paid. Add to the continuous money saving cuts to meals and service (my opinion after thirty-five years of cruising, mostly on RCI), I am holding off on any more 2024 reservations and not making any 2025 reservations at this time. RCI will only start to see people like myself disappear about February of next year (2024) because I normally would have at least three more reservations for later 2024 and 2025. They will try and hold the prices up as long as possible. If more cruisers, like myself, start doing the same thing, there is going to be a big hole in confirmed future reservations. The prices will probably start coming down in 2025. RCI needs to lure those cruisers who commit in advance so they can raise prices as the cruise gets closer to embarking. This has been the cruise model, early reservations get the best price but one must commit money up-front for years to get that price and the room location of choice. I do not mind doing that but I am not committing early money on a deposit for a price I feel is not proper. I feel these prices will go down in 2025 and I have nothing to lose by waiting. If they go up from now, than I was not going to purchase them anyway. No loss. I spend the money elsewhere. I am not committing to pay existing prices for the quality of food now being offered. If you are going to offer me lower quality food offerings as part of the base price, I want a lower price than they think it is worth. That is my reasoning. Meeeee toooooo. I book at least a year out, usually as close to 2 years out as RCCL will let me. Other than the cruise I've got booked for Jan 2024, I don't have anything booked. I just can't see it anymore. It's a crying shame. Somehow I hit the submit button before I was done. Please, nobody get me wrong, as I've said over and over again in here, I'm a very proud capitalist, I don't begrudge any company the ability and desire to make money for themselves and/or their stockholders. But, there is a point where they leave me in the dust. If they can manage to survive doing what they do, more power to them. But, if there are lots of people like me that have to go to plan B and it hurts their bottom line, eventually, they will have some decisions to make. Edited August 30, 2023 by Ret MP 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseygirl1416 Posted August 30, 2023 #115 Share Posted August 30, 2023 21 hours ago, mets123 said: Dessert in the WJ have been horrible for years now. I already pass them up. But the cookies are very good! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucfan2 Posted August 30, 2023 #116 Share Posted August 30, 2023 22 hours ago, mets123 said: Dessert in the WJ have been horrible for years now. I already pass them up. Thanks for your opinion. We enjoy some of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare OCSC Mike Posted August 30, 2023 #117 Share Posted August 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, bucfan2 said: Thanks for your opinion. We enjoy some of them. Me too. Food will always be subjective. Besides the cookies, I've probably found the desserts a bit on the weaker side over the years but I can always find something. Hardly ate in the WJ on Wonder in June but will be there quite a bit on my next several Wonder cruises and I'm not worried about finding dessert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD64 Posted August 30, 2023 #118 Share Posted August 30, 2023 There is a whole untapped market of never having cruised before people out there - the people who go all out and spend on cabins, shore excursions, shopping, dining, spa, etc. The cruise lines do not necessarily want the repeat and never spend an additional dime on board crowd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ret MP Posted August 30, 2023 #119 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 minute ago, RD64 said: There is a whole untapped market of never having cruised before people out there - the people who go all out and spend on cabins, shore excursions, shopping, dining, spa, etc. The cruise lines do not necessarily want the repeat and never spend an additional dime on board crowd. There is that, that's for sure. But the best customers are the loyal repeat customers, those that you don't have to spend tons of money to lure them into the ships. That's why they have all the loyalty programs/award points/etc., that actually cost very little. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Baltic Posted August 30, 2023 #120 Share Posted August 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, RD64 said: There is a whole untapped market of never having cruised before people out there - the people who go all out and spend on cabins, shore excursions, shopping, dining, spa, etc. The cruise lines do not necessarily want the repeat and never spend an additional dime on board crowd. True but will the never cruised before ever cruise again once they experience what they pay a hefty premium for? IMO, most won’t. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride-The-Waves Posted August 30, 2023 #121 Share Posted August 30, 2023 A third-rate action for a fourth-rate cruise line. True bottom dwellers. And we use ti like Royal. No more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mets123 Posted August 30, 2023 #122 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Jerseygirl1416 said: But the cookies are very good! They were good. Now they taste like hockey picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mets123 Posted August 30, 2023 #123 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, bucfan2 said: Thanks for your opinion. We enjoy some of them. They used to be tasty. Now their bland and boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkmaj Posted August 30, 2023 #124 Share Posted August 30, 2023 We're going on our first RC cruise in November. Booked quite a while ago at a pretty reasonable price. All of the changes since we booked are very off putting. Packages I would have purchased seem to be so over priced with diminished value that I won't bother. I know that these things are happening on all lines since Covid but I don't see nearly the amount of complaints about quality and up charges on the other lines right now. We will make the best of it and won't feel cheated for the price we paid... But I don't think we'll be back to Royal at current prices unless we find the complaints to be exaggerated and things are great onboard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare OCSC Mike Posted August 30, 2023 #125 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, mkmaj said: We will make the best of it and won't feel cheated for the price we paid... But I don't think we'll be back to Royal at current prices unless we find the complaints to be exaggerated and things are great onboard. Strongly suggest you ignore negative posts and go in with an open mind. I had a great time on Wonder on June, like all my cruises, and can't wait for the next 4 I have booked! Edited August 30, 2023 by OCSC Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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