For now, carry your passport with you in Rome (Sep 2023)

[slidergirl]

I know many of us put our passports in the hotel safe and maybe carry a photocopy.  Just a head up that the police in Rome have stepped up their random passport checks, especially around the train and bus stations and on busses and trains. Some reported getting checked around tourist attractions.  As per the law, they expect to have the actual passport handed to them and, from the episodes I've read on my one Italy travel site, they don't take the photocopy and you will get fined.  

 

Not to say that you will get stopped,  just a heads up.  I've seen many more people mentioning the stops over the past month than I have seen ever.  

[euro cruiser]

I've never understood why this is such a big issue for travelers.  With a very little bit of forethought it's easy to safely conceal your passport on your person.  Of course, I mostly travel in the fall/winter/spring when one wears more clothing than in the summer months, so that helps.

[travelberlin]

Are those checking the passports really policemen? 

[UKWildcatCruiser]

Why do you need your passport just to walk around the city-why would they even check?  I thought that was needed just for traveling in or out of the city/country?

[euro cruiser]

Italian law requires everyone to carry a national ID at all times.  The only national ID for Americans is a passport.

 

Here is the relevant part of the law, translated by google:

 

"3. The foreigner who, at the request of the officers and agents of public safety, does not comply, without justified reason, to the order to produce the passport or other document of identification and residence permit or other document certifying regular presence in the territory of the State is punished with imprisonment of up to one year and a fine of up to 2,000 euros."

 

The full law can be read here:  DECRETO LEGISLATIVO 25 luglio 1998, n. 286 - Normattiva

 

The quote above is from Article 6, paragraph 3.

 

As to why would they check, there are dozens of reasons.  You could be in a place where an important official is about to arrive, there could be a terrorist threat, there could be an immigration crackdown, you might look like someone who is accused of something, you could simply be in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc.

 

Italian politics these days is leaning decidedly authoritarian, so this type of behavior shouldn't be a big surprise.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by euro cruiser

[REV_Cruiser]

Not trying to be confrontational, but a passport is not a national ID (the US does not have a national ID).  It is just one form of identification that can be used.  Upon reading the translated law posted by @euro cruiser, I wonder if a passport card or Global Entry card would be sufficient?  They are both issued by the US government and are valid forms of identification.

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, UKWildcatCruiser said:

Why do you need your passport just to walk around the city-why would they even check?  I thought that was needed just for traveling in or out of the city/country?

 

Certain countries require you to have your passport with you. Italy is not the only one. Japan also requires it. And (way back) when I visited St. Petersburg, Russia, they did as well.  I'm sure there are others.

 

Italy has in the past rarely enforced this requirement. I might suspect that they are doing so now as a result of all of the illegal immigrants the country has been dealing with over the past 10 or so years.

 

I can't say I'm thrilled. I never like to carry my passport. I'm just a compulsive person and I know it will always be in the back of my mind when I have it with me, even if it is secured.

 

[euro cruiser]

8 hours ago, REV_Cruiser said:

Not trying to be confrontational, but a passport is not a national ID (the US does not have a national ID).  It is just one form of identification that can be used.  Upon reading the translated law posted by @euro cruiser, I wonder if a passport card or Global Entry card would be sufficient?  They are both issued by the US government and are valid forms of identification.

It's possible that a passport card might meet the requirement, the problem is that in these situations you are typically dealing with a fairly low level civil servant, some (many?) of whom don't speak or read English.  They will know what a passport looks like, I wonder if they'd know what a passport card is? 

 

I'm not sure I understand the issue about whether or not a passport is a national ID (I'm not a lawyer).  It's a legal form of identification that is issued by the federal government, is it not?   Of course, under that definition your question about the passport card or global entry would also be national ID, but then we're back to what a typical policeman on the street would recognize.  Certainly someone at the station or questura would know but who wants to waste valuable vacation time sorting this out?

Edited September 21, 2023 by euro cruiser

[puppycanducruise]

Thanks for the heads up.

[TheHawk1]

18 hours ago, euro cruiser said:

I've never understood why this is such a big issue for travelers.  With a very little bit of forethought it's easy to safely conceal your passport on your person.  Of course, I mostly travel in the fall/winter/spring when one wears more clothing than in the summer months, so that helps.

A passport is the most valuable document you own.  It never leaves the ship safe (or hotel safe) when I'm traveling abroad.  I will take my chances with a photocopy thank you.. 

[ninjacat123]

Good to know!  Thanks!!

[slidergirl]

3 hours ago, TheHawk1 said:

A passport is the most valuable document you own.  It never leaves the ship safe (or hotel safe) when I'm traveling abroad.  I will take my chances with a photocopy thank you.. 

Be sure to also carry about 260EU to pay the fine...  

[steamboats]

I wouldn´t subscribe that the passport card might be sufficent... As a non EU citizen you need to present a legal document showing that you are legally traveling within the EU. So they could insist on seeing your Schengen stamp in your passport. Driver licenses are not regarded as legal document in Europe.

 

I have my German ID card which is valid for traveling within the EU and some other countries. But I also carry my passport with me - basically for check-in with the cruise line. So within EU I only take my ID card ashore.

 

steamboats

[marazul]

The US passport card is a valid US passport issued by the State Dept.  It does have limitations.  It is valid only for travel to Mexico, Canada, Caribbean countries and Bermuda.  It is not valid for international air travel.

So it is useless outside those countries. An Italian cop would have never heard of it and it would never had got anyone into Europe.  Some people have both the passport and the card and might want to leave the passport in the hotel and carry the card.  Unfortunately, as @steamboats and @slidergirl said, it won't work. 

[-Lew-]

According to my new friend Perplexity AI...

 

A US passport is not considered a national identification card. While the US passport can serve as identification, there is no official "national identity card" in the United States. The most common national photo identity documents in the US are the passport and passport card, which are issued by the US Department of State to US nationals upon voluntary application.

 

By law, an unexpired US passport (or passport card) is conclusive proof of US nationality and has the same force and effect as proof of United States nationality as certificates of naturalization or of citizenship, if issued to a US citizen.

[euro cruiser]

I find the discussion interesting, the is it/is it not when something isn't clear, but when I step back I keep returning to the idea of a low level policeman on the street and what they are likely to recognize so I can go on about my day.  I know they'll recognize the passport.

[NCteacherlovescruising]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:48 PM, euro cruiser said:

I've never understood why this is such a big issue for travelers.  With a very little bit of forethought it's easy to safely conceal your passport on your person.  Of course, I mostly travel in the fall/winter/spring when one wears more clothing than in the summer months, so that helps.

We will be traveling in the summer so anything extra is undesirable. Additionally, it worries me with all the pic-pockets there. 

[marazul]

54 minutes ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

We will be traveling in the summer so anything extra is undesirable. Additionally, it worries me with all the pic-pockets there. 

So, you take your chances.  I would probably do the same. 

But just do carry the extra cash in case you have to pay a fine. 

 

[NCteacherlovescruising]

30 minutes ago, marazul said:

So, you take your chances.  I would probably do the same. 

But just do carry the extra cash in case you have to pay a fine. 

 

I’m not saying we won’t carry them. Just responding to your question of why it’s such a big deal for travelers to carry them. How hard will it be to get a replacement, if someone steals ours, so we can get back home?  

[marazul]

It is time consuming.  You need to go to the embassy or consulate and ask to have another one issued. That is why you need to print copies of the passport and have some copies in the cloud so you can access them from a phone or computer.  We email copies of the documents to ourselves so we just need to login to email to access them.

You don't want this to happen the day you are boarding your cruise. Or on a port day. 

I do think having the new passport cards in addition to the regular passport could expedite the process.  (I think we should apply for them.)

Now, understand that there is only a very small risk of any of this happening. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by marazul

[jsn55]

4 hours ago, euro cruiser said:

I find the discussion interesting, the is it/is it not when something isn't clear, but when I step back I keep returning to the idea of a low level policeman on the street and what they are likely to recognize so I can go on about my day.  I know they'll recognize the passport.

EXACTLY!  I'm grateful for the warning.  

[steamboats]

7 hours ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

Additionally, it worries me with all the pic-pockets there. 

 

Being German I´m traveling Europe and especially Italy and Spain for my whole life (and that´s more than 50 years now). I never had anything stolen by pic-pockets (knocking on wood). Yes, I did watch them in Rome several times.

 

Use common sense... Don´t wear a bag on one shoulder but cross body. Don´t wear a bag on the street side of the side walk but always to the side where the buildings are. Have a bag with a zipper and no open compartments. Don´t wear a brand bag but a cheap one. There are a lot of travel bags with steel cords and locks for zippers.

 

For men: No way you should carry your wallet (or now also the phone) in the back pocket of your trousers. Always put those things in the front pocket where you can keep your hands on.

 

I prefer to have my purse and documents in a belly bag. I can always put my hands on. And yes, it´s one of those theft proofed travel bags. I can lock the main compartment. The clasp is hidden and can´t be opened easily. The belt is having an additional steel cord inside so it can´t be cut easily.

 

There are a couple of well known tricks to get your attention away from your valuables... like spreading some mustard/ketchup on your clothes and trying to help you to clean it up (while the other person picks your wallet). Holding a paper or map in front of you to get the second person a chance to grab something underneath... Today the cell phones are a main target... Never let your phone lay open on a table in an outdoor café...

 

BTW when being in the US a police man might be o.k. with my German ID or DL just for identification (or to prove my age) but anyway I have to carry my passport with me to approve that I do have my Visa Waiver stamp and that I´m not out of my 90 days range.

 

steamboats

[travelberlin]

10 hours ago, marazul said:

So, you take your chances.  I would probably do the same. 

But just do carry the extra cash in case you have to pay a fine. 

 

Do you have to pay a fine immediately on cash? It sounds like a scam. Are really police officers in Italy chasing tourists who do not have their passports and asking to pay a fine in cash? I think we should investigate if this is true. I have been in Italy many times and I am more concerned in loosing my passport and valuables to pickpockets than to be fined by a police officer for not having my passport 

[travelberlin]

3 hours ago, steamboats said:

 

Being German I´m traveling Europe and especially Italy and Spain for my whole life (and that´s more than 50 years now). I never had anything stolen by pic-pockets (knocking on wood). Yes, I did watch them in Rome several times.

 

Use common sense... Don´t wear a bag on one shoulder but cross body. Don´t wear a bag on the street side of the side walk but always to the side where the buildings are. Have a bag with a zipper and no open compartments. Don´t wear a brand bag but a cheap one. There are a lot of travel bags with steel cords and locks for zippers.

 

For men: No way you should carry your wallet (or now also the phone) in the back pocket of your trousers. Always put those things in the front pocket where you can keep your hands on.

 

I prefer to have my purse and documents in a belly bag. I can always put my hands on. And yes, it´s one of those theft proofed travel bags. I can lock the main compartment. The clasp is hidden and can´t be opened easily. The belt is having an additional steel cord inside so it can´t be cut easily.

 

There are a couple of well known tricks to get your attention away from your valuables... like spreading some mustard/ketchup on your clothes and trying to help you to clean it up (while the other person picks your wallet). Holding a paper or map in front of you to get the second person a chance to grab something underneath... Today the cell phones are a main target... Never let your phone lay open on a table in an outdoor café...

 

BTW when being in the US a police man might be o.k. with my German ID or DL just for identification (or to prove my age) but anyway I have to carry my passport with me to approve that I do have my Visa Waiver stamp and that I´m not out of my 90 days range.

 

steamboats

Good advise.
As Germans or other Europeans there is no need of a passport to walk around in Italy or other European countries. The personal ID card is enough.

For the USA, Europeans need to carry their passports.

Ivi

[-Lew-]

4 hours ago, steamboats said:

Being German I´m traveling Europe and especially Italy and Spain for my whole life (and that´s more than 50 years now). I never had anything stolen by pic-pockets (knocking on wood). Yes, I did watch them in Rome several times.

 

We have used the common sense methods and heeded the recommendations you mention for traveling in Europe for many years and have never experienced a problem.  Also knocking on wood as I write this.

 

Carrying our passports in hidden travel belt wallets will keep them out of sight, safe and available if needed.  As for obtaining a replacement passport, it's not the way I want to spend time on a trip.  However, if it should ever be necessary we bring printed copies of our most recent passport applications when traveling internationally to facilitate the process.