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Is this a new one for Air Canada?


3Shelaghs
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On a recent flight (March) 777-300 full,  Toronto -Amsterdam, they were delayed due to a snow storm previous day (all backed up), so flight was slightly delayed. Prior to boarding the gate was changed after they had asked for people to volunteer checking of carryon's. A 20ish something gal did. The gate was changed and she did not retrieve her carry on prior to moving to the new gate (3 down).

All boarded plane, roughly 2 hrs late. Plane began taxi to runway, when this gal began crying, approached business class cabin crew stating her plight she did not retrieve carry on from previous assigned gate. Much ado, and she was settled back into her seat in economy. The closer we got to the runway, she once again came up to the business class crew crying, they seated her in an empty seat. Time passed plane sat where it had shoved off and stopped.

Finally Captain came on speaker stating, they contacted Operations, and she was getting off plane, but ground crew would have to go into belly of plane to retrieve her checked bags as Cdn Law states anyone who boards a plane and gets off, much have a bag accompany them. Plane went back to gate.

The "2155 take off" finally left from the gate at 0230. Belly was unscrewed, containers undone and her bag retrieved.

Notes: as a diabetic, plan for no meal to arrive (be prepared)... as a business man, I would be ticked if my attendance depended on reasonable delay times, was this reasonable to allow people to get off? Couldn't they have sent her bag on another flight?. I had a driver waiting on the other end, thankfully. he checked flight times and did not charge us a surcharge. How much fuel was used for this caper? 

With all the technology, signage, apps, surely she should've known? I bet if she got a cute text or call, she would have been right onto that info on her phone. Was I angry? No, only uncomfortable. Am I disgusted air heads like this exist? Yes, but Air Canada seemed to accommodate this behaviour.

Anyone else have scenarios like this happen? On a positive note.... the taxi was  at lightening speed, bet the pilots enjoyed that rare event!

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So welcome to the joys of flying !🤣

Did you enjoy writing your rant 🤔🤣

“Finally Captain came on speaker stating, they contacted Operations, and she was getting off plane, but ground crew would have to go into belly of plane to retrieve her checked bags as Cdn Law states anyone who boards a plane and gets off, much have a bag accompany them. Plane went back to gate.”

 

old news it been that over 25 years 

 

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It unfortunately happens because there seems to be a segment of people who refuse to follow the rules.  As this traveller was clearly upset and refused to remain in her seat with her seatbelt fastened while the plane was underway to takeover, I would think that the decision was made that the passenger could no longer fly.  Removing the passenger from the plane is, in my opinion, Air Canada not accommodating her behaviour.  It's unfortunate that for Air Canada to do the right thing in this instance it meant delaying the flight even more.

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The removal of baggage when a passenger doesn't fly dates back to the 80's and was originally introduced to prevent terrorists from checking in a bag containing explosives and then not boarding the plane. I can recall a business trip to Europe in the mid-80's when we sat on the runway at Schiphol for a couple of hours while they searched for and finally located the bags of a passenger who had checked in but didn't board. As there had been a recent string of terrorist bombings in Europe, and the Air India bombing was still fresh in people's minds, no-one aboard the plane complained about the delay.

 

There are many reasons why flights are delayed or even cancelled - weather, mechanical issues, disruptive passengers, etc. - which is why most of us fly in for a cruise a day or two early. Just in case. I'd obviously prefer not to be delayed, and I can't do anything about it, so I simply accept that possibility as part of the reality of travel. 

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Delays happen.

 

Not a new one for Air Canada or any airline in my opinion.

 

We always have to be prepared for this kind of thing.

 

I will add, and I am not defending this passenger, but if I left my bag with Gate Agents tagged for the belly of the aircraft, and then the gate was moved, I would initially think that the Gate Agents would look after that.  

 

I personally would probably at some point before the actual departure think to myself - is my bag at this gate now?  But I am equally sure that some would never think of that because they left the bag with Gate Agents and they expect that it is being taken care of.

 

I feel that this problem happened because the Gate Agents were negligent and should have made announcements for those that checked a bag to retrieve it.  Because they did not do this, then that bag is now an "unattended" bag sitting at some gate...

 

I will blame this whole incident on the negligence of the gate agents and that this could have, should have been avoided.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

I will blame this whole incident on the negligence of the gate agents and that this could have, should have been avoided.

How were the gate agents negligent? The woman had gate checked the bag. Meaning it had been tagged with the proper flight number and destination and sent to the aircraft.  You can't retrieve a bag that has already been checked. The flight delay was entirely the fault of the noncompliant passenger, which necessitated the aircraft's  return to the terminal and her removal, and that of her luggage from the hold. Need i point out that since her luggage was in the hold, it obviously hadn't been left at the original gate.

Edited by mom says
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58 minutes ago, mom says said:

How were the gate agents negligent? The woman had gate checked the bag. Meaning it had been tagged with the proper flight number and destination and sent to the aircraft.  You can't retrieve a bag that has already been checked. The flight delay was entirely the fault of the noncompliant passenger, which necessitated the aircraft's  return to the terminal and her removal, and that of her luggage from the hold. Need i point out that since her luggage was in the hold, it obviously hadn't been left at the original gate.

It was her carryon that was checked at the gate that the issues not her luggage 

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9 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

I feel that this problem happened because the Gate Agents were negligent and should have made announcements for those that checked a bag to retrieve it.  Because they did not do this, then that bag is now an "unattended" bag sitting at some gate...

 

I will blame this whole incident on the negligence of the gate agents and that this could have, should have been avoided.

 

Sorry, don't follow your logic.  The gal checked her bag at one gate then the flight was moved.  She did not and should not retrieve it.  In fact as per OP, it was on her aircraft, not "unattended", and that is why it was held up while they went into the belly to find her bag and haul it off.

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1 hour ago, mom says said:

How were the gate agents negligent? The woman had gate checked the bag. Meaning it had been tagged with the proper flight number and destination and sent to the aircraft.  You can't retrieve a bag that has already been checked. The flight delay was entirely the fault of the noncompliant passenger, which necessitated the aircraft's  return to the terminal and her removal, and that of her luggage from the hold. Need i point out that since her luggage was in the hold, it obviously hadn't been left at the original gate.

My understanding of the OP's story is this woman caused the whole incident because she thought that her bag was never transferred from the old gate to the new gate.  Bags that are checked at the gate are not always sent to the aircraft until boarding and often taken down the gangway to the door just outside the plane.

 

If her carryon bag that was "checked" was in fact loaded onto the aircraft then the ground crew would have been able to verify that and then put her fears to rest.

 

I am certain that the captain would have checked this before going back to the gate and offloading luggage.  This is because the woman also had checked luggage and then decided to check her carryon at the gate.

 

If this is actually the case, and her bag that she checked at the gate was never loaded onto the plane because it was still at the former gate, then the fault was with the gate agents.

 

If I have misunderstood the post, I am sorry if I have.  

 

What else was this woman's issue then?

 

Perhaps the OP will clarify?

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^^ your correct, carry on according to this gal was at the gate, but her checked luggage was in belly of the plane.

I posted this not to specifically to "rant", (was it cathartic? no I didn't need emotional support)but to ponder where we have gone wrong with the "youth". Why arent' they thinking and planning for themselves? Why do they expect others to fix their problems? Yes, I know it's centuries of youthful thinking, but honestly I think they are getting more flakey. I was shocked that Air Canada actually went to all the trouble to off load this gal.

 

As a grandmother of all grand daughters, I'm glad they helped her, but as a crotchety old lady, I was miffed after preplanning to arrive days earlier than needed, arranged transportation to arrive early and be picked up at destination upon arrival, I do my due diligence, but somehow end up with the short end of the stick. Glad they dumped her off vs her going postal over the Atlantic.

So don't get me wrong, I fully understand all kinds of delays with airlines and certainly not green to flying, but quite shocked they actually went to this extent to accommodate her issue, and was wondering if this is the norm nowadays.

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Posted (edited)

I always ask at the gate if they are taking carry on for free as checked in luggage.  If they are, they put a checked luggage tag on. I go and sit down until called to board.   I take my carry on with a checked luggage tag to the entrance of the plane and hand my checked carry on over to someone there.

 

If they did that at the original gate, she would have had her carry on to take to the new gate.

Edited by phabric
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I think there is more to this story. Was the passenger certain that the carry-on didn’t make the gate change?   It seems very, very odd to me that the ground or gate crew did not ensure that any gate-checked carry-ons were not moved to the new gate.    When the gate crew ask for volunteers to check their carry-ons as they often do because the flight is full, the bag is tagged and becomes the responsibility of the airline. Under normal processes the passenger doesn’t collect their carry-on if there is a gate change once it is handed to the gate agent who in turn hands the bags to the ground crew.    It was reasonable for the passenger to expect to next see her bag on the jet bridge  in Amsterdam as she disembarked. 

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Sounds to me like the passenger completely overreacted to her bag possibly being left at the gate. And if she's going to overreact and be a problem before the flight even takes off, would I want her on the plane to do something stupid over the Atlantic? Nope ... 

 

Agree that there is more of this these days - people young and old overreacting to all kinds of things and unfortunately, those of us who can control our reactions end up being impacted. 

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Sad comment on our culture that only selfish motives are being attributed to this passenger. Has no one considered that the carryon may have contained, as many do, necessary for life medication?

 

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On 4/14/2024 at 4:45 PM, 3Shelaghs said:

^^ your correct, carry on according to this gal was at the gate, but her checked luggage was in belly of the plane.

I posted this not to specifically to "rant", (was it cathartic? no I didn't need emotional support)but to ponder where we have gone wrong with the "youth". Why arent' they thinking and planning for themselves? Why do they expect others to fix their problems? Yes, I know it's centuries of youthful thinking, but honestly I think they are getting more flakey. I was shocked that Air Canada actually went to all the trouble to off load this gal.

 

As a grandmother of all grand daughters, I'm glad they helped her, but as a crotchety old lady, I was miffed after preplanning to arrive days earlier than needed, arranged transportation to arrive early and be picked up at destination upon arrival, I do my due diligence, but somehow end up with the short end of the stick. Glad they dumped her off vs her going postal over the Atlantic.

So don't get me wrong, I fully understand all kinds of delays with airlines and certainly not green to flying, but quite shocked they actually went to this extent to accommodate her issue, and was wondering if this is the norm nowadays.

 

I hear ya.  Unfortunately, when asking questions like why aren't they thinking and planning for themselves and expecting everyone else to fix their problems, I am reminded that we raised them.  🤪

 

Just today my DW and I were next in line at Tim's in a mall.  Suddenly a girl about 20 asked my DW and I if she could jump in front of us because, and I kid you not, she actually said, "I am so hungry that I am about to pass out and I only have 10 minutes to get something."  My DW thought the about to pass out comment was a tad dramatic, but as we weren't in any hurry and we remember all too well the experience if working in retail, e simply said okay, go ahead.  As karma can be nasty, I'm sure that no one is surprised that even after letting her go ahead another cashier opened up and we received our order before this lady received hers.  She thanked us for helping her and I don't think she thought for one second that there was anything wrong with her making her needs much more important than ours.  

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5 minutes ago, broberts said:

Sad comment on our culture that only selfish motives are being attributed to this passenger. Has no one considered that the carryon may have contained, as many do, necessary for life medication?

 

We probably don’t have the complete story 

If you life medication in your carry on , why would you check it 🤔

 

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22 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

We probably don’t have the complete story 

If you life medication in your carry on , why would you check it 🤔

 

 

When I have been asked to check a carry-on, the agent has been very clear that I should first remove and retain any valuables, medications and lithium batteries.  That last is very important since they do not want spontaneous combustion in the belly.  I truly can't believe that any agent would take the carry-on without first advising the passenger.  That has to be mandatory.

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17 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

We probably don’t have the complete story 

If you life medication in your carry on , why would you check it 🤔

 

Let's not for get that this was a young girl who, unlike most of the posters here, might well have been taking her first international flight. Perhaps her first flight, period. Consequently, she may not have thought about such issues as keeping her meds with her when she volunteered to gate check her carry on.

 

The one question that comes to mind is why it appears that no one took the time to explain to the clearly upset youngster that her bag hadn't been left behind and had been loaded aboard the plane. Perhaps the earlier delays had put the crew in a tetchy mood.

 

5 minutes ago, Fairgarth said:

 

When I have been asked to check a carry-on, the agent has been very clear that I should first remove and retain any valuables, medications and lithium batteries.  That last is very important since they do not want spontaneous combustion in the belly.  I truly can't believe that any agent would take the carry-on without first advising the passenger.  That has to be mandatory.

On the other hand, I've been asked to check my carry-on bag on a number of occasions and have never been asked about meds or lithium batteries. Maybe it depends on the airline or airport?

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51 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

We probably don’t have the complete story 

If you life medication in your carry on , why would you check it 🤔

 

Exactly. I can't gate check my carry on, because I have medication that I need to take regularly. I have occasionally pulled it out to put in my purse or maybe a knapsack, but I would NEVER gate check luggage with my medication in it.

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18 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Let's not for get that this was a young girl who, unlike most of the posters here, might well have been taking her first international flight. Perhaps her first flight, period. Consequently, she may not have thought about such issues as keeping her meds with her when she volunteered to gate check her carry on.

 

The one question that comes to mind is why it appears that no one took the time to explain to the clearly upset youngster that her bag hadn't been left behind and had been loaded aboard the plane. Perhaps the earlier delays had put the crew in a tetchy mood.

 

On the other hand, I've been asked to check my carry-on bag on a number of occasions and have never been asked about meds or lithium batteries. Maybe it depends on the airline or airport?

Thank you Fouremco for your compassionate comment.

 

I fly nearly every week for business and I have seen all kids of behaviours at the gate and on the plane and it makes seriously wonder what people are thinking.

 

But I also see those that have obviously not travelled before and think it must be so daunting.  Customer service is non-existent, workers are miserable and people in general have zero patience.  

 

I hope everything worked out for this individual.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/18/2024 at 3:25 PM, broberts said:

Sad comment on our culture that only selfish motives are being attributed to this passenger. Has no one considered that the carryon may have contained, as many do, necessary for life medication?

 

 

The announcements made in the boarding area are VERY CLEAR that you need to remove any medications or other things you really need. If this person chose to leave their meds in that bag, that was their mistake. 

Edited by Water_Baby_
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3 hours ago, Water_Baby_ said:

 

The announcements made in the boarding area are VERY CLEAR that you need to remove any medications or other things you really need. If this person chose to leave their meds in that bag, that was their mistake. 

 

Really, you were there?

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13 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Really, you were there?

 

...and could you even hear the announcements?

 

How many times have we been in busy airports all around the world and in most areas of the departure lounge you cannot hear anything that the gate agent is saying.

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IMO the gate agents are very concise re checking the carry on at the gate, that night they were very articulate numerous times.  And yes CDN Polar most of the time it is unintelligible!!! Crazy they can't fix that issue. 

Sorry now I brought my observations up from that night..........🤔

 

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On 4/22/2024 at 2:22 PM, broberts said:

 

Really, you were there?

 

I've flown hundreds of times just in the past decade through airports in Canada, the US and Europe and it is VERY CLEARLY announced that you have to remove any medications that you may need. 

 

And if you can't hear the announcements then how would you know that they're looking for volunteers to check bags? 

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