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Read this on Princess site....

"All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas."

What troubled me was the term compensation as opposed to tip on top of compensation. Is anyone else reading it as it's part of thier regular pay? Throughout the year? That is odd language too.

 

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This sounds odd? All monies pooled and doled out as corporate choses? Maybe the room steward who took care of us doesn't get what is recommended we pay? If we pay 18.00 (would expect the line to take 3.00 handle fee)  a day would hope he would get at least 8.00 of this the rest goes to food service. Bars get separate tips.This sounds like it doesn't happen very fairly. The extra we tend to give to crew separately do they get to keep this?

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Posted (edited)

@Kineticoh20

I don’t think we as passengers will ever know the formula & how the crew actually gets their tips and how much, etc. I think we just need to pay them and move on ,but of course that’s my opinion. It’s honestly such a small amount that is “mandatory gratuities”. The crew gets paid a wage ,whatever their contract says and then gratuities if their job is part of that “ program”.

Definitely,no worries ,cruise on.

 

 

Edited by arizonaperson
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4 hours ago, Kineticoh20 said:

Read this on Princess site....

"All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas."

What troubled me was the term compensation as opposed to tip on top of compensation. Is anyone else reading it as it's part of thier regular pay? Throughout the year? That is odd language too.

 

Why is this surprising? “Crew Appreciation” (gratuities) is NOT a guest’s tipping the crew to show gratitude for a job well done. 
Instead of the cruise line paying THEIR employees a decent wage, they instead pay a substandard wage and look to their customers (us) to make up the shortfall THEY CREATED by way of the scheme they’ve devised and have cleverly disguised by using the ever so soft and cuddly phrase “crew appreciation”. 

I can only imagine the reaction of my customers if on every invoice I send I added a gratuities line item geared to make up for my stiffing my employees on every paycheck they receive. 
 

There outta be a law. A the saying goes. 

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5 hours ago, Kineticoh20 said:

What troubled me was the term compensation as opposed to tip on top of compensation.

That stood out to me, as well!!  Those people work their a$$es off, and it seems the cruise line is making their lives even worse.  Is that what this means?

 

We'll probably sneak/slip cash to the good ones, if that's the case.  I have been blasted on other threads for saying/doing this, but I think that's only fair.

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Timely post.

My 15 day TA crew appreciable is $21 pp CAD per day.

I’ve been struggling to decide whether we should purchase the Plus package to have CA included or give the $21 pp/ per day directly to crew who we have contact with?

 

Opened a can of worms?

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3 minutes ago, dog said:

Timely post.

My 15 day TA crew appreciable is $21 pp CAD per day.

I’ve been struggling to decide whether we should purchase the Plus package to have CA included or give the $21 pp/ per day directly to crew who we have contact with?

 

Opened a can of worms?

The Plus and Premier packages are how Princess disguises the method by which they shift THEIR crew payment obligations to their customers (us). 
They think they are being so clever. 
 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, arizonaperson said:

@Kineticoh20

I don’t think we as passengers will ever know the formula & how the crew actually gets their tips and how much, etc. I think we just need to pay them and move on ,but of course that’s my opinion. It’s honestly such a small amount that is “mandatory gratuities”. The crew gets paid a wage ,whatever their contract says and then gratuities if their job is part of that “ program”.

Definitely,no worries ,cruise on.

 

 

No disagree entirely

 

Any cruise I cruise on from now on I'm removing any tips and paying cash to those who serve me well

 

I've been hoodwinked into thinking I'm helping my cabin steward for example when in fact I am much better helping him direct

 

It's all a big con trick being honest to just charge you more to pay staff costs in an underhand way

 

Leave tips to customer choice and take away the sham

 

Like some other cruise lines do

 

Zero tips added on P and O and if you choose to tip then that's fine but not needed

 

They just pay everyone a salary and you cover that cost with your upfront payment

 

 

 

 

Edited by Interestedcruisefan
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1 hour ago, Bgwest said:

The Plus and Premier packages are how Princess disguises the method by which they shift THEIR crew payment obligations to their customers (us). 
They think they are being so clever. 
 

Yeah,

After I read the policy( several months ago) this Disturbed me. We kept pre paying gratuities online since it easier for us.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ecs66 said:

That stood out to me, as well!!  Those people work their a$$es off, and it seems the cruise line is making their lives even worse.  Is that what this means?

 

We'll probably sneak/slip cash to the good ones, if that's the case.  I have been blasted on other threads for saying/doing this, but I think that's only fair.

Don't apologise 

 

This is blatantly not what you consider would be happening with tips!

 

And you know what the staff themselves would never be  able to tell you this themselves

 

You have to find it in the smallprint

 

Basically staff tips on Princess is being used to pay staff wages 

 

Simple as that

 

And it's out in the open now

Edited by Interestedcruisefan
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10 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Leave tips to customer choice and take away the sham

 

That's how we did it in "the olden days", back when we cruised on Sitmar (before Princess bought it out).  The wait staff, room stewards, etc., -- everyone, basically -- were top notch knowing that they'd be given "the envelope" at the end of the trip.  The cruise line even supplied the envelopes, IIRC.

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1 hour ago, Bgwest said:

The Plus and Premier packages are how Princess disguises the method by which they shift THEIR crew payment obligations to their customers (us). 
They think they are being so clever. 
 

I think you'll find that, for every organisation in the world that has customers and staff, it is the customers who are paying the staff.  Where other than from its customers do you think a cruise line should obtain the funds by which it compensates its crew?

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I think you'll find that, for every organisation in the world that has customers and staff, it is the customers who are paying the staff.  Where other than from its customers do you think a cruise line should obtain the funds by which it compensates its crew?

But they are calling it gratuities and playing on the goodwill of passengers ?

 

It's blatant false marketing/advertising?

 

It's blatantly trying to deceive people IMO

 

They should have to call it what it is when they take money from your card ie "staff compensation" rather than decisive passengers In thinking this is an extra "gratuity" for staff

 

100 per cent Princess deceived me with it last month

 

Won't happen again to me. But shouldn't be happening to anyone

 

In this day and age when businesses are suppose to be ethical and show transparency in how they operate

 

 

Edited by Interestedcruisefan
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Posted (edited)

I'll make my typical "one and done" post to a tipping thread.  DSC (I refuse to call them "gratuities", regardless of what the cruise line calls them), is, and always has been the majority of the crew's "compensation package".  In the past, the DSC made up more of the total compensation, and today, there is a minimum wage requirement (more on this later), but even today, the DSC makes up more than half of the crew's compensation.  This is clearly spelled out in their employment contract, that "x" amount is monthly wage, and "y" amount is DSC, which is spelled out as variable depending on passenger participation.

 

As for the minimum wage I mentioned above, the typical cabin steward pay is around $1200-1400/month, but the minimum wage is only $666/month this year.  Until the removal of DSC reaches the point where the crew are receiving less than the minimum $666/month, the cruise line does not have to make up the difference.

 

Whether or not a cruise line uses DSC to pay the crew or not, if they didn't, they would just raise the cruise fare to cover what the labor market would require as total compensation for the crew.  There are two reasons the cruise lines use DSC:

1.  It allows them to post the lowest possible cruise fare

2.  It provides them with a "carrot and stick" management of the crew's service by making it dependent on every crew member to self-police their colleagues in order to get the maximum compensation, and allows the cruise line to shift the "blame" for reducing the compensation to the passenger.

 

I don't agree with it, and have never liked it, but it isn't going away, and those who remove the DSC to "tip" those who they feel did extra, are rewarding those people less than a traditional tip would (since they have already removed part of their compensation), and punishing others who may have done a fine, but not excellent, job by removing their compensation.

Edited by chengkp75
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35 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I think you'll find that, for every organisation in the world that has customers and staff, it is the customers who are paying the staff.  Where other than from its customers do you think a cruise line should obtain the funds by which it compensates its crew?

Nonsense.  
Let them pay THEIR employees a decent wage. Period. And consequently adjust the cruise fare to suit. 
Then if a customer CHOOSES to tip, said tip is a reward for exemplary service and is above and beyond their full base salary.
NOT a scam whereby the cruiseline shirks the responsibility to pay THEIR employees and try’s to shift THEIR responsibility to the passenger. 

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4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I'll make my typical "one and done" post to a tipping thread.  DSC (I refuse to call them "gratuities", regardless of what the cruise line calls them), is, and always has been the majority of the crew's "compensation package".  In the past, the DSC made up more of the total compensation, and today, there is a minimum wage requirement (more on this later), but even today, the DSC makes up more than half of the crew's compensation.  This is clearly spelled out in their employment contract, that "x" amount is monthly wage, and "y" amount is DSC, which is spelled out as variable depending on passenger participation.

 

As for the minimum wage I mentioned above, the typical cabin steward pay is around $1200-1400/month, but the minimum wage is only $666/month this year.  Until the removal of DSC reaches the point where the crew are receiving less than the minimum $666/month, the cruise line does not have to make up the difference.

 

Whether or not a cruise line uses DSC to pay the crew or not, if they didn't, they would just raise the cruise fare to cover what the labor market would require as total compensation for the crew.  There are two reasons the cruise lines use DSC:

1.  It allows them to post the lowest possible cruise fare

2.  It provides them with a "carrot and stick" management of the crew's service by making it dependent on every crew member to self-police their colleagues in order to get the maximum compensation, and allows the cruise line to shift the "blame" for reducing the compensation to the passenger.

 

I don't agree with it, and have never liked it, but it isn't going away, and those who remove the DSC to "tip" those who they feel did extra, are rewarding those people less than a traditional tip would (since they have already removed part of their compensation), and punishing others who may have done a fine, but not excellent, job by removing their compensation.

I get all that

 

But the passenger isn't at fault here. It's the cruise line. We aren't the guilty ones. 

 

It's the cruise lines problem to sort. And yes if that means increasing the up front cruise fare so be it. 

 

Transparency over deception

 

As it is there's an awful lot of cruisers being deceived into thinking money they are paying is actually gratuities 

 

When clearly it's not

 

Governments or authorities  should step in and sort it out if the cruise lines won't do it themselves

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Bgwest said:

Nonsense.  
Let them pay THEIR employees a decent wage. Period. And consequently adjust the cruise fare to suit. 
Then if a customer CHOOSES to tip, said tip is a reward for exemplary service and is above and beyond their full base salary.
NOT a scam whereby the cruiseline shirks the responsibility to pay THEIR employees and try’s to shift THEIR responsibility to the passenger. 

Exactly

 

If you go in restaurants and bars on the land the gratuities do have to go to the staff and it's on top of their wages

 

It's not used to top up wages

 

The law makes sure of that

 

Same law should apply to cruise holidays

 

It's giving cruise ships an unfair advantage over land holiday suppliers come to think of it with this deception they are using

Edited by Interestedcruisefan
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13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I'll make my typical "one and done" post to a tipping thread.  DSC (I refuse to call them "gratuities", regardless of what the cruise line calls them), is, and always has been the majority of the crew's "compensation package".  In the past, the DSC made up more of the total compensation, and today, there is a minimum wage requirement (more on this later), but even today, the DSC makes up more than half of the crew's compensation.  This is clearly spelled out in their employment contract, that "x" amount is monthly wage, and "y" amount is DSC, which is spelled out as variable depending on passenger participation.

 

As for the minimum wage I mentioned above, the typical cabin steward pay is around $1200-1400/month, but the minimum wage is only $666/month this year.  Until the removal of DSC reaches the point where the crew are receiving less than the minimum $666/month, the cruise line does not have to make up the difference.

 

Whether or not a cruise line uses DSC to pay the crew or not, if they didn't, they would just raise the cruise fare to cover what the labor market would require as total compensation for the crew.  There are two reasons the cruise lines use DSC:

1.  It allows them to post the lowest possible cruise fare

2.  It provides them with a "carrot and stick" management of the crew's service by making it dependent on every crew member to self-police their colleagues in order to get the maximum compensation, and allows the cruise line to shift the "blame" for reducing the compensation to the passenger.

 

I don't agree with it, and have never liked it, but it isn't going away, and those who remove the DSC to "tip" those who they feel did extra, are rewarding those people less than a traditional tip would (since they have already removed part of their compensation), and punishing others who may have done a fine, but not excellent, job by removing their compensation.

I understand this.

 

Are crew allowed to keep the cash we hand them or does it go into a pool to share?

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Posted (edited)

I believe that most cruisers believe that by paying the gratuities, they are tipping those crew members on their cruise who provided good or exceptional services.  They very well may not be.  The gratuities paid, as stated in the Princess paperwork, go into a pool, controlled by Princess and distributed by Princess throughout the fleet!  Your room steward may never see a dime of the gratuities you paid and the same for those in the dining room who served you so well.  

If I go to a restaurant and the wait staff does an excellent job, I don't hand the owner extra money to be put in his or her pocket, to be distributed, throughout the year to all those who work at the restaurant.  Why should it be any different when cruising.  With the exception of our very first cruise (we are now over 50), we have always removed the gratuities, obtained small envelopes from Customer Service desk, and given tips directly to the persons who went above and beyond to see to it that we enjoyed our cruise.  

Edited by whitecap
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9 minutes ago, dog said:

Are crew allowed to keep the cash we hand them or does it go into a pool to share?

I asked the worker in the IC on our cruise which ended this month. He does not have do declare or turn in cash tips. Actually, we talked about salary and tipping quite a bit, because it was early and nobody was around. Too much to write here, but onboard you have the same job title at different salaries and different contract length, based on which country they came from.

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38 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

But they are calling it gratuities and playing on the goodwill of passengers ?

 

 

 

 

This, I think, is what causes the confusion.

 

Go back to post 1.  Princess are not calling the charge that this thread is about a gratuity.  They are calling it 'crew appreciation / service charge'.  That is the daily per person charge, which varies by cabin type.  Actually, I think the text quoted in post 1 gives a very clear and transparent explanation of how Princess uses those charges.   And I don't think anyone should be shocked that part of what they pay for their cruise is used for staff salaries / wages.

 

All cruise lines rely on customers to pay crew salaries.  I agree that in an ideal world that would all be included in one overall cruise fare.  But, for commercial / cultural reasons, that seems rare, apart from P&O in the UK and some of the very high end lines.  Other lines have daily service charges / crew appreciation charges and explain how those provide an element of crew compensation.  On some lines (e.g. MSC and Costa) those charges are mandatory and cannot be changed or removed.  On others, they can be adjusted.  I think it is pretty clear that these are not 'tips or 'gratuities'.

 

We're on a Princess cruise at the moment.  There is a separate 'gratuities' line entry on every food / beverage / service bill (typically 18 per cent, but adjustable).  That is the equivalent of what you are referring to in terms of land-based restaurants, not the crew appreciation / service charge that this thread was about originally.   

 

We have met many many fantastic staff on this 4-week cruise.  And most of the ones with whom we have interacted tell us they have been with Princess for multiple contracts over years and years.  Clearly, they are happy with what and how they are paid by Princess.  I know that we have contributed to them receiving a salary with which they are happy by paying our daily service charge as part of our package and the additional 18 per cent on goods and services not covered by that.  For us, it is just part of the cruise fare in the same way that when we go to a restaurant at home, an element of our food bill pays staff wages across the whole company and an element of our supermarket bill pays staff wages across the whole supermarket chain.  Those who wish to provide an additional gratuity to individual named staff members are welcome to do so.

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8 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

I asked the worker in the IC on our cruise which ended this month. He does not have do declare or turn in cash tips. Actually, we talked about salary and tipping quite a bit, because it was early and nobody was around. Too much to write here, but onboard you have the same job title at different salaries and different contract length, based on which country they came from.

 

9 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

Are crew allowed to keep the cash we hand them or does it go into a pool to share?

Awhile back I handed an envelope to our waiter and assistant and they wanted our cabin number. I asked "why". They told us that if we had opted out of the added gratuities, they were obligated to turn over the cash to be pooled. I now just put my cabin number on the tip if I'm giving an envelope. This last cruise there was a lot of crew turnover. I gave crew members leaving separate tips and said it wasn't a tip, but me buying them a drink before their flight.

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16 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

I asked the worker in the IC on our cruise which ended this month. He does not have do declare or turn in cash tips. Actually, we talked about salary and tipping quite a bit, because it was early and nobody was around. Too much to write here, but onboard you have the same job title at different salaries and different contract length, based on which country they came from.

From the Princess terms and conditions of employment:

 

Nonetheless, to the extent passengers follow the suggested contribution guidelines in whole or in part, or deliver their contribution to the Company or directly to any crew member(s), each and every crew member agrees that any such contribution is not his personal wage, but rather a contribution to the Discretionary Hotel and Dining Charge Pool (the “Pool”).  Each and every crew member also agrees to deliver any such voluntary passenger contribution he or she receives from any passenger under any circumstances to the Pool immediately upon receipt of the contribution from the passenger

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3 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

From the Princess terms and conditions of employment:

 

Nonetheless, to the extent passengers follow the suggested contribution guidelines in whole or in part, or deliver their contribution to the Company or directly to any crew member(s), each and every crew member agrees that any such contribution is not his personal wage, but rather a contribution to the Discretionary Hotel and Dining Charge Pool (the “Pool”).  Each and every crew member also agrees to deliver any such voluntary passenger contribution he or she receives from any passenger under any circumstances to the Pool immediately upon receipt of the contribution from the passenger

I have read this as well, but there was more to it. I was concerned that cash to certain individuals was not being kept. Was told this same statement, however once it is determined the passenger did not remove the DSC the cash was returned to the individual.

I leave the charges and was happy with an auto pay process over the years. I do give individual thank you cards with a little extra and though the bar staff or IC staff are paid differently some receive an envelope as well. I do hope they can keep the cash. But will never really know will we.

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