Random Reflections on Serenity’s 2 July ‘24 Vancouver Roundtrip

[CabinBoy2020]

Vince, Did you try the beef with (if memory serves) a Gorgonzola crust?  I don’t eat much meat, but I’ve had this twice and love it.  I ordered the always available filet in Waterside one night and was disappointed. The Osteria version was delicious!  
 

Bill

[pag111]

Had the best lamb chops ever at Osteria.  Believe the Italian meal was the best (on our 7 day Alaskan cruise.)

[May B]

Vince, what a beautifully explained description of your impression of Osteria. Love the photos. Darn, I missed the peach sorbet (despite the high recommendation for it from the Bar Manager, whose name I’m blanking on … in fact, I don’t think I have her title correct, either).

 

Bill, thank you for posting that photo! Something I would never consider ordering, until now.

[litigator]

Maybe I am just an old fashion guy but Osteria did not do it for me. I just got off an Alaskan cruise and really my only disappointment was Osteria which remains half empty most nights. Everything else about the ship, crew  and food was 5 stars. 
Danny

 

[BWIVince]

13 hours ago, CabinBoy2020 said:

Vince, Did you try the beef with (if memory serves) a Gorgonzola crust?  I don’t eat much meat, but I’ve had this twice and love it.  I ordered the always available filet in Waterside one night and was disappointed. The Osteria version was delicious!  
 

Bill

Bill, I didn’t get to try it, but I’ve heard great things about it from others like you that did, and it’s definitely on my list.  I have at least three other sets of items I’d love to try on the menu, so I definitely look toward to many future visits!

 

6 hours ago, litigator said:

Maybe I am just an old fashion guy but Osteria did not do it for me. I just got off an Alaskan cruise and really my only disappointment was Osteria which remains half empty most nights. Everything else about the ship, crew  and food was 5 stars. 
Danny

 

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that…. Just like every other dining venue Crystal has ever had, it’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea.

 

Vince

[Keith1010]

Bill, I don't eat much beef but your photo of the beef looks amazing.  I will be sure to try this.

 

Keith

[BWIVince]

Double Stateroom Bathrooms 

 

Let’s have a chat about the new bathrooms in the (remaining) double and solo staterooms (window/veranda).  They’re bright, attractive and functional. 

 

Overall, I feel like these are a big win, but there are some real headscratchers in here from a useability standpoint.   I promise this is the longest list of first world problems you’ve ever seen though – since my last post, and until my next post.  😁 

 

First up is the sink.  In my room at least, there was a large and bulky towel bar on the front of the sink, which combined with the protrusion of the vanity for the sink, makes for a very unfortunate setup.  It’s just overly large and completely in the way.  (Ironically, in the case of Symphony, this is where vessel sinks are designed to help – you could have had a much narrower vanity beneath a vessel, and a towel bar on the front would tuck completely and efficiently under the vessel, making for a perfect use of space...  But that’s neither here nor there at this point.)  Not only does the bar now place you significantly further from the sink, it sticks out significantly into the room, making the entry between the towel bar and the door tighter than it needs to be, and creates a large object to bang into when you bend over.  (I’m embarrassed to admit I hit my head on it more than once – and so did one of my traveling companions.) 

 

The sink itself is fine, but the location of the faucet here exacerbated one of my common complaints about the shallow, flat rectangular sinks that are so common these days – they don’t rinse clean.  They catch debris, and retain anything you pour into them because they don’t have a graduated drain slope.  In this case the effect is even worse because the faucet is off on the far side, making it harder to rinse the sink clean of everything lingering on the bottom.  Where normally I could use my hand to redirect the water around the basin, here I sometimes had to use a glass. 

 

 

The location of the trash can is kind of unfortunate because of the towel bar too – the towels hide the location of the can, so if you’re my height you have to bend over to see where you’re throwing something and see around the towels (or move them), while trying to avoid hitting your head again. 

 

Can you spot the trash can?

 

When I first saw pictures of the shower, I thought, “oh wow, that’s a definite upgrade,” but the shower design similarly seemed to escape user acceptance testing.  The adjustable bar (which is usually the primary/preferred showerhead location) is difficult to use because a large, extremely obtrusive grab bar was placed where you would normally stand if the showerhead was placed on the short wall with the toilet.  If you were really careful, it’s technically possible to use the showerhead in this location, but it’s incredibly awkward staying clear of that large grab bar.   

 

Crystal realized the issue and put in a fixed-position hook for the showerhead on the back common wall with the corridor as a workaround, but that has its own drawbacks, pushing you into a more confined corner of the shower.  Additionally, using the back hook causes more forceful exposure to more water against the glass and door joints, than using the adjustable bar to hold the showerhead, causing more water to leak onto the floor over the course of your shower.  Being careful helps, but no matter how careful I was, a significant amount of water still leaked out just due to the glass panel joints not being intended for this level of exposure given the location, not because seals were broken or missing – they were all in place and well maintained.  Adding insult to injury the slope of the floor was towards the corner of the party wall and closet wall, and the drain was in a different corner under the toilet.  Count on using another towel to catch the runoff if you don’t want to make the bathmats squishy. (Ick!) 

 

 

Also of note is that where I was used to the two shelves in the shower in the old design, there is now one corner shelf.  The shampoo, conditioner and shower gel containers all fit, along with the soap, but it’s tight since the containers are short and squat. 

 

Just a note that the lights on the mirror operate on their own switch on the other side of the bathroom, which is different from most hotel rooms where the mirror lights are usually located somewhere near the overhead lights.  Not a huge deal, it’s just counterintuitive for people that spend a lot of time in various hotel rooms. 

 

I thought the Ortigia (Florio line) amenities were fine...  They weren’t anything to get excited about, but they were fine.  I can name other brands I’d rather see, but they were...fine.  The Ortigia products were coordinated through La Bottega, who Crystal used for the Etro products.  I do miss the bright colors of the Etro tubes though – it was difficult telling the shampoo from the shower gel, and the finish on the dispensers wears off, making them look worn...  They don’t seem like they’re made for reuse like the equivalent built-in dispensers (also available from La Bottega). 

 

So in short, no big complaints – the new bathrooms are very nice.  I just wish they had put some more thought into the design and how guests actually interact with the various fixtures – I identified most of these issues just in my first use of the bathroom – it doesn’t take much research. 

 

Vince

[FlyerTalker]

Artistic designers, not usability professionals.

 

But the pictures will look pretty in the brochures.  And for many executives (in many industries, not just cruising),. that's all that matters.

 

 

[Texas Tillie]

Your description of the shortcomings in the new bathrooms for the steerage (😉) cabins is A+!! True, first world issues, but we are paying first world prices for those cabins. As to the towel bar in front of the sink, the corner is exactly midthigh on my leg and it took over 2 weeks for the bruise to subside!!

 

Patty

[TER777]

Not to mention the soap dish is a long ways away from the sink thus causing a lot of water dripping as one goes from one to the other etc. 

[BWIVince]

55 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Artistic designers, not usability professionals.

 

But the pictures will look pretty in the brochures.  And for many executives (in many industries, not just cruising),. that's all that matters.

 

 

100%…. That’s always why you always have to prototype a cabin or guest room before you spend millions of dollars on fabricating parts that can’t normally be returned.  The process isn’t perfect — even just using Crystal as an example, both “the chair” and the original Symphony glass vessel sinks passed the prototype phase — BUT this is a whole lot of misses for one tiny room.

 

Vince

[BWIVince]

1 hour ago, Texas Tillie said:

Your description of the shortcomings in the new bathrooms for the steerage (😉) cabins is A+!! True, first world issues, but we are paying first world prices for those cabins. As to the towel bar in front of the sink, the corner is exactly midthigh on my leg and it took over 2 weeks for the bruise to subside!!

 

Patty

That’s a great point about the shape too, Patty!  Normally when you have something protruding so far into a space that people have to tightly navigate, if you DO have to put something dangerously close to guests like that, you give it/pick a design with heavily rounded corners (all angles) that guests will slide along or off of if they bump into it — sharp corners hurt more and bruise more when you hit them.  These all have a sharp corner on the face that digs into you, even though they are rounded on the ends.  I’m glad to hear I’m in good company on the injured list.  😊 

 

29 minutes ago, TER777 said:

Not to mention the soap dish is a long ways away from the sink thus causing a lot of water dripping as one goes from one to the other etc. 

 

Thats another great point.  I couldn’t figure out why they were located where they were either — it’s not like they even remotely look right there (to FlyerTaler’s point about design)….  Are you using the soap to open the door?  Answer the phone?

 

Vince

Edited August 1 by BWIVince

[crickette]

Remember that the designer that is credited for these rooms has been retained with pride for the new builds.

 

 

[ryndam]

Conspiracy theory: make the “entry level” rooms so unfriendly/ill-designed/disliked/etc., it forces/pushes/persuades/etc. past and/or future guests to book Aquamarine, Sapphire or higher categories. The redesign certainly affected our bookings: we only book Aquamarine or higher. Would not travel in the renovated “entry level” rooms. New reality (and price point).

 

Rob

[Stickman1990]

On 7/31/2024 at 10:07 PM, BWIVince said:

it was a really bad episode of gout, so I was in pain pretty much the whole cruise and had limited mobility.  I'm better now but I have another follow-up appointment next week for a longer term look.

 

Ask your Doctor about Allupurinol - a god send….you can thank me later 

They may have to experiment with getting to dosage right but once they get it right you shouldn’t experience anymore attacks

Edited August 1 by Stickman1990

[BWIVince]

2 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

Ask your Doctor about Allupurinol - a god send….you can thank me later 

Thry may have to experiment with getting to dosage right but once they get i5 right you shouldn’t experience anymore attacks

My traveling companion on this trip (who goes to the same medical group as I do) coincidentally is on it, so I’m pretty sure that’s what they will put me on…. I’m glad it works as well for you as it does for him, it’s comforting to hear the good references.

 

We frequently joked about my taking some of his Allupurinol while I was onboard (usually when I was limping the most ridiculously), but obviously I never would because I’d have no way to test and dose it correctly.  Though to the credit of the ship’s doctor, he did offer the option of trying to start treating the uric acid imbalance and not just the inflammation, but I knew that wasn’t terribly practical all things considered so I kept it simple.  I was impressed with his care though.

 

Vince

[BWIVince]

28 minutes ago, crickette said:

Remember that the designer that is credited for these rooms has been retained with pride for the new builds.

 

 

I actually think that’s probably fine…. Though seeing this I’m definitely not as impressed overall as I’ve been with Crystal’s past cabin refit designers, like II BY IV.

 

I don’t think this necessarily reflects future work on a new ship for a couple of reasons though…

 

1) Refitting existing cabins with [ship design] generations-old parts and construction methods is a whole world away from new build design, and is actually an area certain designers have specialized in because it’s such a different beast.

 

2) They had less than half the time and more than twice the scope of any of the other design firms that have ever worked with Crystal on cabin refits before.  Still plenty of time to properly prototype each stateroom type, BUT overall they were in a much bigger rush than they will be with the new build projects, which seem to have conventional timelines.

 

I may be proven very wrong, but I have more faith in the newbuilds.

 

Vince

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, BWIVince said:

100%…. That’s always why you always have to prototype a cabin or guest room before you spend millions of dollars on fabricating parts that can’t normally be returned. 

 

American Airlines was guilty of this.  They started "Project Oasis" for a cabin redo of their narrowbody aircraft.  However, Doug Parker et al decided that it was a waste of money to do a full mockup of the cabin.  And then, after the aircraft went back into service, the issues arose.  Seats were uncomfortable and took away almost all underseat storage. IFE was removed. Galleys were difficult to work in.  Lavs had sinks that splashed up on users.  And more.

 

So, AA created "Project Kodiak" to do another refit, this time to fix the planes with the installed Oasis interior.  Except they kept on installing Oasis on all the aircraft they had originally planned on, THEN they took those planes they put Oasis into and then gave them the Kodiak.  Tossing away millions of dollars along the way, to say nothing of the alienation of passengers.

 

 

[Txcotn]

1 hour ago, Stickman1990 said:

Ask your Doctor about Allupurinol - a god send….you can thank me later 

They may have to experiment with getting to dosage right but once they get it right you shouldn’t experience anymore attacks

I agree 100% with Terry. After 3 attacks, causing a broken foot bone from walking funny (6 weeks in a boot) I've been on it for 7 years. Word of caution - you have to be over the attack before you start it. Prednisone is good for that, as well as the colchicine but that has nasty side effects. The crystals will cause permanent damage if you don't deal with it. Note: it is not really caused by food and drink - my doc says it's 90% me and 10% diet. So doesn't that clear Henry VIII? 

[Roland4]

1 hour ago, BWIVince said:

My traveling companion on this trip (who goes to the same medical group as I do) coincidentally is on it, so I’m pretty sure that’s what they will put me on…. I’m glad it works as well for you as it does for him, it’s comforting to hear the good references.

 

We frequently joked about my taking some of his Allupurinol while I was onboard (usually when I was limping the most ridiculously), but obviously I never would because I’d have no way to test and dose it correctly.  Though to the credit of the ship’s doctor, he did offer the option of trying to start treating the uric acid imbalance and not just the inflammation, but I knew that wasn’t terribly practical all things considered so I kept it simple.  I was impressed with his care though.

 

Vince

I got slammed with the worst gout attack in my knee on Harmony in 2005 in Alaska!!! Little old ladies in walkers were passing me like I was standing still! Mostly because I was! My doctor put me on Allupurinol and I have not had a problem since. Run, if you can, don't walk, to your doctor!🙂🙂

[Helene1111]

I’m glad to know I’m not the only person who was bruised by the towel bar in the single room! I ended up removing the trash can from the recessed hole it sits in and placed it on the floor in a corner of the bathroom…. Was much easier to get to the trash can that way!!

[Keith1010]

Vince, as usual another great write-up.

I was told by a person who would know for sure that they didn't have time to do the prototypes as they normally would. This I was told is why they didn't pick up on certain things such as as the closets being smaller, I believe placement of a mirror in one of the suite/room types and I suspect other things such as bathrooms as they were not picked up without the prototype. I was told there just wasn't the time to do that.

 

I also do agree that often those who design do not think about the practicality of it.  That is not only true for hotels, aircraft, cruise ships but other things.

 

For example:

 

When they built one of the fitness center they have in our community we took a tour of it.  On the second floor is a circular walking track and it goes around a large fitness room.  As soon as Anne Marie saw it she said it won't work.  Why?  Because the room is multi-purpose and it included things like Pilates and Yoga along with more active classes. Well the rooms wall was only half way to the ceiling and Anne Marie said if the walkers are talking which they do then they will disturb those taking classes such as Yoga. Ascetically it looked wonderful.  Practically it was a flop. Within a year they had to redo the walls however they couldn't entirely close the room give the impact it would have on the AC system without spending even more money to do just that.

 

Even in new hotels they do crazy things such as having a desk with almost no outlets and that is hard to believe in this day and age of all these gadgets.  I always think you cannot have enough outlets.

 

Anyway, hopefully with prototypes that will help. I just wish whether we are talking cruise ship, hotel, aircraft, fitness center, possibly even automobiles, etc., etc. etc. that they would sometimes have some consumers who use the products see the prototype and provide comments on them whether we are talking ships, hotels, fitness centers or whatever.

 

I remember on Serenity back in the days when we had to plug in our computers that the place to do this was so hard to get to as it was tucked away behind the TV. At that point we had spent the equivalent of a couple of years in what was the PH. An executive from Crystal was on board the ship as part of a planned dry dock when they were redoing all the suites. They told me they were going to redo the cabinets and I asked as part of this could you move the area where we would hook up computers so it was not behind the TV to make it easy.  They did and the cost was likely negligible but they wouldn't have realized this if a guest didn't ask them about it.

 

I guess the designers would not like doing this but it surely would be helpful IMHO to having a design that not only looks nice but is practical.  By the way that includes factoring in the height of people and recognizing that we come in a variety of sizes and that actually goes beyond height. 

 

Vince on the labeling of the products I agree with you.  As I've gotten older I can not longer read small lettering without glasses. This is also a problem in hotels where the products look the same. Before I start the shower I put them in order starting left to right with shampoo, conditioner, body gel If I didn't I would be in big trouble. LOL but so true.

Keith

[May B]

Just call me Ms Oblivious. I spent nine nights in a double veranda and don’t remember the thing about the sink/towel rack or the shower or the trash! Maybe I’m just used to be challenged, b/c I’m so short.

 

In our more recent cruise, we were in Aquamarine. Mr B kept saying, you know what’s wrong with this cabin? Too many drawers. 

[FlyerTalker]

7 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

Vince on the labeling of the products I agree with you.  As I've gotten older I can not longer read small lettering without glasses. This is also a problem in hotels where the products look the same. Before I start the shower I put them in order starting left to right with shampoo, conditioner, body gel If I didn't I would be in big trouble. LOL but so true.

 

 

One good thing about the ETRO products....the different color packaging made it easy to know which product was which.  Not so much the current choice...I just have to remember the relevant animals.

 

 

[CabinBoy2020]

Vince et al -- Did you notice the "mini-shelves" (plastic topped things) over the toilet paper holder and on one side of the vanity?  Your top photo shows the one over the toilet paper holder.  I thought they were weird.  I used the vanity mini-shelf for small items like lip balm. What are they?  

 

I did stay for a couple weeks in an Aquamarine on a previous cruise.  The closet and bathroom were so lovely and spacious compared to the solo cabins.  But I actually preferred the nice sitting area in the solos as compared to the Aquamarine with the sofa directly across from the bed.  And not much room between them.  But that's another story :)

 

Bill