Seabourn and HAL Convergence

[stan01]

Just received a HAL email announcing their "Best Deal Ever" for Americans:

- Included crew appreciation

- Included elite drinks package (15 drinks per day valued at up to $15 each)

- Included Wi-Fi

- Included up to 3 specialty restaurant visits depending upon duration of cruise

 

Sounds a lot like Seabourn at least on paper.  Let's get this assimilation over with and everyone can make their choices and get on with life.  🙂

 

 

[Robisan]

Clearly now sharing the same IT department. Get the same message using four different browsers:

 

Access Denied

You don't have permission to access "http://www.hollandamerica.com/en/us" on this server.

[tv24]

10 hours ago, stan01 said:

Just received a HAL email announcing their "Best Deal Ever" for Americans:

- Included crew appreciation

- Included elite drinks package (15 drinks per day valued at up to $15 each)

- Included Wi-Fi

- Included up to 3 specialty restaurant visits depending upon duration of cruise

 

Sounds a lot like Seabourn at least on paper.  Let's get this assimilation over with and everyone can make their choices and get on with life.  🙂

 

 

Are your gratuities included?  And compare the stateroom size HAL vs. Seabourn.

[Mahogany]

13 hours ago, tv24 said:

Are your gratuities included?  And compare the stateroom size HAL vs. Seabourn.

Thought that was "included crew appreciation". If not, what is that?

[tv24]

1 hour ago, Mahogany said:

Thought that was "included crew appreciation". If not, what is that?

Oh, I suppose so.

[whogo]

Just be happy that in this instance they are making HAL more like Seabourn rather than making Seabourn more like HAL.

[Hobar]

I took my mom and sister on a HAL cruise earlier this year, best cabin and purchased the next to premium drink package (forget, but something like 15 drinks a day up to $11each drink).  The “drinks” include specialty coffees, and also water cans (no plastic bottles).  But never came close to the drink limit per day, but went over $11 limit per drink several times.  Ok, fine.  But what bothered me was that we were each given a “receipt” each drink, with a line for tip, even though I prepaid tips.  Well, anyway, the point is that those receipts were a buzz kill!  The cruise, albeit for three people, ended up costing nearly similar to SB.  (Oh yeah, I had to pay $$ for ordering extra app at specialty restaurant.)  I will just say that if there was any doubt in how much I love SB, there was no more doubt when I was back on SB a few months later. Been over 20 years and with its ups and downs, still love it. (Our last sailing on Venture this summer was as good as our first SB over 20 years ago.). And the friends we’ve met - that is truly the best!!!

[Syd58]

On 9/20/2024 at 3:37 PM, stan01 said:

Just received a HAL email announcing their "Best Deal Ever" for Americans:

- Included crew appreciation

- Included elite drinks package (15 drinks per day valued at up to $15 each)

- Included Wi-Fi

- Included up to 3 specialty restaurant visits depending upon duration of cruise

 

Sounds a lot like Seabourn at least on paper.  Let's get this assimilation over with and everyone can make their choices and get on with life.  🙂

 

 

Even with these things, no way are the two products comparable..

[SLSD]

Here's what i wonder.  Is it even possible that Carnival will merge Holland and Seabourn   with similar amenities, the same menus, the same alcohol, etc--but will charge more for the "former" Seabourn ships as the experience there will be more intimate.  Tell me that this will not happen or, if you think this might be a possibility.  

Edited September 22 by SLSD

[Syd58]

10 minutes ago, SLSD said:

Here's what i wonder.  Is it even possible that Carnival will merge Holland and Seabourn   with similar amenities, the same menus, the same alcohol, etc--but will charge more for the "former" Seabourn ships as the experience there will be more intimate.  Tell me that this will not happen or, if you think this might be a possibility.  

Won't happen, as Seabourn is a higher margin product.

[SLSD]

3 minutes ago, Syd58 said:

Won't happen, as Seabourn is a higher margin product.

Yes, but I envision Holland charging more for Seabourn than Holland--to cover that margin.  Just a thought.  It may well not be what is going to happen, but the changing of some Holland amenities made me think about this.  

 

Edited September 22 by SLSD

[stan01]

58 minutes ago, SLSD said:

Here's what i wonder.  Is it even possible that Carnival will merge Holland and Seabourn   with similar amenities, the same menus, the same alcohol, etc--but will charge more for the "former" Seabourn ships as the experience there will be more intimate.  Tell me that this will not happen or, if you think this might be a possibility.  

 

All speculation because corporate Carnival isn't talking.  Yes, I'm thinking something like a ship-wide Club Orange branding for the Seabourn ocean ships could fit in if they go in that direction.  They can't really transfer Seabourn to Cunard because of the dual US/UK business structure Cunard has but there it would be a ship-wide service branded as Grills (for those more familar with Cunard than HAL).  Pretty sure the two Seabourn expedition ships were a mistake from the beginning and Carnival Corporate just can't come to terms parting with them at a price someone will pay.

I know this is a cruise forum not a business forum but Carnival Corporate is in a really bad place.  Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, and Disney are pumping money into new family ships to compete with the aging fleet of Carnival Fun Ships and land based trips to Disney World and Disneyland that have become very expensive for families.  MSC has another four ships on order for Explora competing directly with Seabourn and backed by billionaire owners who seem to have a very long term outlook and are willing to operate the ships at half capacity and low fares for a long time.  Ritz and Four Seasons are attempting to skim off the top tier customers willing to pay $2,000 or more per person per day.  Silversea and Regent have launched new ships while keeping their old ships going (for now).  Viking Ocean goes up to like 19 ships (competing with HAL and Princess).   All with Carnival Corporate's approx. $25B debt tying their hands to modernize their aging fleet.

Edited September 22 by stan01

[stan01]

1 hour ago, Syd58 said:

Even with these things, no way are the two products comparable..

 

Smaller ship size means a lot, but things like "happy crew" apply to other cruise lines too and to be honest a lot of Seabourn's crew from pre-COVID have moved on.  The new crew is very overworked.  The posts on another website from Odyssey's farewell cruise seem more like a farewell to Seabourn than to Odyssey.  We don't know what Carnvial Corp's plans are, but Ms. Leahy's background is in finance not development of new luxury cruising products.  She has marching orders and a timeline from her bosses.  I hope I'm wrong but we continue to look at Ritz, Explora, SeaDream, Cunard Grills, Windstar, and other cruise lines rather than only going on Seabourn.  All offer good products, with many strong points and a few weaknesses.  We don't like the inclusive excursions on Regent and Silversea otherwise we'd do those too.

[SLSD]

9 minutes ago, stan01 said:

 

Smaller ship size means a lot, but things like "happy crew" apply to other cruise lines too and to be honest a lot of Seabourn's crew from pre-COVID have moved on.  The new crew is very overworked.  The posts on another website from Odyssey's farewell cruise seem more like a farewell to Seabourn than to Odyssey.  We don't know what Carnvial Corp's plans are, but Ms. Leahy's background is in finance not development of new luxury cruising products.  She has marching orders and a timeline from her bosses.  I hope I'm wrong but we continue to look at Ritz, Explora, SeaDream, Cunard Grills, Windstar, and other cruise lines rather than only going on Seabourn.  All offer good products, with many strong points and a few weaknesses.  We don't like the inclusive excursions on Regent and Silversea otherwise we'd do those too.

I've been reading all the posts about the disappearing cognacs that long time Seabourn cruisers are accustomed to.  The worsening complimentary wine lists, etc.  And I remember that shortly before our 28 day Seabourn cruise of July/August 2024, we received an email about our "Holland America" cruise.  There was no retraction or apology for that "mistake".  We all know about the financial straits.  We see the changes in entertainment that are already underway--all the singers also have to be dancers--a watering down of talent.  We also see the reluctance of Seabourn to provide a true luxury experience when it comes to dining--it is always iffy if the MDR will be open for breakfast and lunch.  There is no advertisement of caviar--you have to know to order it--perhaps they are hoping that that will die out.  There are more and more "add on" costs--the Retreat, the wine tastings, the special dinners you pay extra for.  I have no idea if my idea is correct, but it is something to think about.  I don't have a dog in this fight.  Mr. SLSD and I only cruise once a year (longer cruises, but still--just once a year).  We are just as happy to take land vacations.  We loved our summer 2024 Sojourn cruise, but we saw a few things which gave us pause.  We haven't booked another cruise yet.  

[2SailingNomads]

I seriously doubt HAL & Seabourn will be merged, two different markets being targeted.  Will HAL corporate management continue to cheapen the formerly great Seabourn product?  Possibly, Josh did no, IMO, favors to the product.  The current President apparently talks a good game and has made some minor improvements, but running out various - very inexpensive - "fine wines" and not having crew go off (we were in Europe not in the middle of Antarctica or the Artic circle) to buy some local wines and not have corporate provision them at the one of the next ports is not reassuring.  As has been documented in other threads, multiple people have sent emails to her and received a cut & paste thank you for your email reply (a good friend shared what he sent and the reply he got, it pretty much matched what was posted on this forum).      

 

There are simply going to be too many ships competing in the same space - as is already happening in the Expedition market see the comments a few months ago by the head of Lindblad arguing to not have his competition lower prices.  Crystal has a new ship planned, Regent one (in addition to the recent 3), Scenic has a new and slightly larger build on order, SilverSea seems to roll out one every 18 months or so, and Explora Journey's as Stan1 mentions plans on a total of 6 with 2 more definite as EJ 2 sets sail soon and EJ 3 cut steel.  We have been on EJ 1 and while there is a lot of very good things about it, we are not returning until we hear that certain things (you can read the various threads on the EJ board to get a sense of the teething pains) get resolved.     

 

I am not sure if I have any interest in the Ritz or 4 Seasons ships, although I love their hotels, I am afraid like EJ they think they are a hotel and not a cruise line.

 

Edited September 22 by 2SailingNomads

[SLSD]

2 minutes ago, 2SailingNomads said:

I seriously doubt HAL & Seabourn will be merged, two different markets being targeted.  Will HAL corporate management continue to cheapen the formerly great Seabourn product?  Possibly, Josh did no, IMO, favors to the product.  The current President apparently talks a good game and has made some minor improvements, but running out various - very inexpensive - "fine wines" and not having crew go off (we were in Europe not in the middle of Antarctica or the Artic circle) to buy some local wines and not have corporate provision them at the one of the next ports is not reassuring.  As has been documented in other threads, multiple people have sent emails to her and received a cut & paste thank you for your email reply (a good friend shared what he sent and the reply he got, it pretty much matched what was posted on this forum).      

 

I am not so sure that the targeted markets are so different.  We have seen the clientele on Seabourn change quite a bit over the years we have sailed with them.  And I have read that those who have sailed with Holland have spent almost as much once they add on certain amenities and levels of suite.  We'll just have to wait and see.  I will say that I am not convinced that Seabourn is committed to a luxury product.  I'm willing to sit back and watch to see what happens.  

[2SailingNomads]

For myself, and many people I know over the years from many cruises on Seabourn agree, we do not want to have to pay for nor pick a package.  (Although I would make an exception to try WindStar).  That survey we received a few months ago asking about various package plans for Seabourn was distressing.  That is NOT what Seabourn has been from as long as I have sailed on them - 20+ cruises - and now as SLSD wrote earlier all these upsells, wine dinners at the Retreat (NO not interested), paid whiskey tastings, etc.  I remember not that many years ago a post dinner rum tasting at the Obs Bar, no charge.  Yes on our first cruise on the Legend there was a paid (not expensive) wine tasting we attended, but that was it not someone pushing a different everyday upsell.  "Let me leave this with you" flyers as they know we buy a lot of revenue wine at dinner.     

 

If Seabourn corporate wants to continue to do what ever: diminish the product; aim for a younger demographic that only can do 7 day cruises and act entitled disrespecting the crew as we have seen many times; fail to provision (not that hard if they even know how to use a spreadsheet... never mind a complex inventory management software - I can sell them one for free cruises for myself and my partners);or piss off long time clients who have spent many hundreds of thousands of $$$ on Seabourn as I have written multiple times, there are many other options.  There are people we know from multiple SB cruises who now are never going back.  

We are not that far from the 2nd 14 day free cruise so the jury is out if we will continue to aim for that or write it off as a bad investment.

 

[Syd58]

5 hours ago, SLSD said:

I am not so sure that the targeted markets are so different.  We have seen the clientele on Seabourn change quite a bit over the years we have sailed with them.  And I have read that those who have sailed with Holland have spent almost as much once they add on certain amenities and levels of suite.  We'll just have to wait and see.  I will say that I am not convinced that Seabourn is committed to a luxury product.  I'm willing to sit back and watch to see what happens.  

Disagree. It’s pretty clear the two products have different target markets.

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, Syd58 said:

Disagree. It’s pretty clear the two products have different target markets.

I've never been on a Holland America cruise, but I have met plenty of people on Seabourn cruises who have.  And, with Holland now offering some of the same kinds of amenities as Seabourn--and both being run by the same office, I can see a change in the target market.  

Edited September 23 by SLSD

[Hlitner]

We have done quite a few SB cruises (about 150 day) and have more than 600 days on HAL.  There are tremendous differences in the culture of the two lines, the clientele, etc.  Just consider that on most HAL cruises (the short Caribbean cruises have a diffferent demographic) a majority of the cruisers want to have dinner by 6 (many will wait in a queue to dine at 5:30) and would often be in bed before 9:30.  On our most recent SB cruise (just home from e weeks on the Encore) The Restaurant and Colonnade were opened for dinner at 6pm.  However, it was unusual to see more than a few diners in the Restaurant before 7 with 7:30 - 8:00 still being the prime time favored by the majority.  

 

HAL also tends to have more of the mass market cruise activites then you will find on SB.  HAL will have the usual art auctions, various game shows, etc.  And the differences in cuisine are huge.  HAL has lately moved to an "add-on" mentality where there are multiple add;on items (with extra cost) in the MDR and their alternative venues.  For example, somebody recently posted about getting Haddock in the MDR for only an extra $25 (plus 18%).  

 

If SB were to become more like HAL, I suspect that many SB fans would quickly move to SS, Regent, Explora Journeys, Scenic, etc.  

 

Speaking to the Cognac issue, on SB,  I did have some words with an representative from Seattle about the issue.  It does seem that SB has quietly moved from VSOP to VS which is a noticeable decline in quality.  They are aware of the complaints, so we will need to wait and see if they bring back higher quality or double down on the bar cut backs.

 

Hank

[SLSD]

7 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We have done quite a few SB cruises (about 150 day) and have more than 600 days on HAL.  There are tremendous differences in the culture of the two lines, the clientele, etc.  Just consider that on most HAL cruises (the short Caribbean cruises have a diffferent demographic) a majority of the cruisers want to have dinner by 6 (many will wait in a queue to dine at 5:30) and would often be in bed before 9:30.  On our most recent SB cruise (just home from e weeks on the Encore) The Restaurant and Colonnade were opened for dinner at 6pm.  However, it was unusual to see more than a few diners in the Restaurant before 7 with 7:30 - 8:00 still being the prime time favored by the majority.  

 

HAL also tends to have more of the mass market cruise activites then you will find on SB.  HAL will have the usual art auctions, various game shows, etc.  And the differences in cuisine are huge.  HAL has lately moved to an "add-on" mentality where there are multiple add;on items (with extra cost) in the MDR and their alternative venues.  For example, somebody recently posted about getting Haddock in the MDR for only an extra $25 (plus 18%).  

 

If SB were to become more like HAL, I suspect that many SB fans would quickly move to SS, Regent, Explora Journeys, Scenic, etc.  

 

Speaking to the Cognac issue, on SB,  I did have some words with an representative from Seattle about the issue.  It does seem that SB has quietly moved from VSOP to VS which is a noticeable decline in quality.  They are aware of the complaints, so we will need to wait and see if they bring back higher quality or double down on the bar cut backs.

 

Hank

Hmm...on our recent cruise in August, the time for dining in the MDR was moved up to an earlier time.  When we arrived at our usual time, we were shocked at how many guests were already seated.  And yes, there were games--Name that Tune, The Liars Club, and some I do not remember the names of.  I don't think the clientele is as different as many think.  Of course I could be wrong.  It will be interesting to see what happens over the next two years.  I hate to see a decline in quality for things like cognac.  It you want a better quality, you will have to pay extra.  The idea of all inclusive is beginning to look very unclear.  In other words, if you want luxury, you will need to pay extra. 

 

Don't get me wrong,  we had a great time from July 27th until August 24th this past summer.  But, there were certain aspects of the experience that did not exude luxury.  

Edited September 23 by SLSD

[nancygp]

Liars club and name that tune have frequently happened and continue to happen on another lux line I’ve sailed on.  

 

many of the mass market and premium lines have been offering inclusive type packages, some are add on packages. 

 

Nancy

Edited Monday at 03:54 PM by nancygp

[DTtravelers]

I would have to agree with Hlitner.  G__ forbid they ever munge the two together!!!

 

Note: I usually only post to share knowledge gained from past experiences or to offer an attempt (usually weak) at humor, and am generally positive.  So please pardon the rant portion that follows.

 

We spent 39 days on Noordam on a transpacific this spring, and just finished 25 days in the Arctic on Venture in August.  

HAL?
 
Well, we were 4 star Mariners, hadn't sailed with them for a while, and we had a two week New Zealand land tour in March which ended after Sojourn already left.

 

The Good: Really good food, excellent service.  Restaurant open for breakfast and lunch daily.  Really good fruit.  Everything was served timely and hot - 39 days in a row.  Never stood in line whether at 5:30, 6:30 or 7:30.  Someone on the HAL CC board mentioned they up their game for longer cruises.  Happy hour drinks for an affordable half price.  Great classical trio.  Good port shuttles.  Ship was well maintained.  We enjoyed most of the entertainment.

 

The Bad: EVERYTHING IS SO LOUD!!! (oops, sorry for shouting).  The Irish opera singer was so loud I had to tear up a paper napkin and stuff it in my ears.  My wife thought about it for another song and did the same.  The Rolling Stone Lounge was always so loud that we couldn't even take it outside just walking by.  The "Grand Salon", which I renamed the "Cough-a-torium" was where everyone with respiratory illnesses liked to gather...  my wife succumbed, but somehow I miraculously escaped.  The Lido at lunch was always a scramble.  We were only allowed out on the front viewing areas three times in 39 days.  I won't mention the "art," nagging photographers, or jewelry sales...  nope.

 

The Ugly: We sprang for a Signature Suite from Sydney to Vancouver since there would be so many sea days.  The room was very comparable to regular Seabourn suites, except that it lacked any sort of functional air conditioning.  But that was okay since we were in hot, humid, equatorial areas for about half the trip (insert "dripping" sarcasm here).  We had to keep the curtains drawn all day to try to keep the sun and heat out, and had a fan blowing on us at night, sometimes with a wet towel on me to help cool from evaporation.  They offered us a "sleeping room" that was far aft.  The throbbing of the azipods was so loud there that I rejected that.  So let's see... cannot use the room by day, and then go sleep somewhere else at night with our clothes scattered in two rooms???  And pay more than twice as much as the category A room we had the first two weeks?  The one that had air conditioning? 

 

The folks at the front desk said "someone is working on it"  I should have asked who the "someone" was that was working, and what was "it"  They were just trying to appease.   Nobody was working on anything as far as I could tell.  One of the engineers later told us that the ship used the ocean for cooling and it was not designed to reject heat into 85 degree water.  He said it would be better once we got to Hawaii.  What HE said was exactly true...  Oh, did I mention that the Restaurant and public areas were always rather cold?

 

They offered us $500 FCC which I immediately rejected since we had already decided that we would not be sailing with them again.  They eventually gave us $500 back, which was a trivial 3.5%.  We took it as we wanted it resolved before we got off the ship.  No sense adding insult to injury trying to deal with the home office.  I sent a detailed letter to them.  Crickets.  Apparently we have both written each other off.  I unsubscribed from their marketing and blocked them from sending any more emails.

 

In fairness, there were a lot of folks on board that really enjoyed the trip.  It just is not for us any longer.  

Seabourn?  

 

We had an excellent month on Encore in the Eastern Med last fall, and an outstanding voyage in Iceland and Greenland in August on Venture, along with two great trips to Alaska in '22 and '23.  On Venture, we knew 25 or so team/crew members from previous voyages, and met some new, really excellent staff that we hope to see again.  The captain stopped by and chatted with us for almost 45 minutes one evening.  We discovered that he was second in command on Quest when we did the Antarctic in 2019!  Lot's of great memories to share.

 

The scenery in Scoresby Sound and Northeast Greenland National Park was mind-boggling.  Painted mountains unlike anything I have ever seen.  Polar bears, muskox, arctic foxes and hares.  Even a lemming.  When is the last time you felt like a kid in a candy store??  Day after day?   

 

I believe that Venture and Pursuit were a great addition to Seabourn's fleet.  Venture allowed us to do things that their other ships could not do.  We had excellent expedition teams.  We look forward to sailing with them again.

In summary:

 

HAL - Apples (with some worm holes)
Seabourn - Oranges

 

Joining the two??  BIG, BIG MISTAKE. If that ever happens, then I will employ one of my favorite lines from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "Run away! Run away!"  

 

[caviargal]

On 9/20/2024 at 3:37 PM, stan01 said:

Just received a HAL email announcing their "Best Deal Ever" for Americans:

- Included crew appreciation

- Included elite drinks package (15 drinks per day valued at up to $15 each)

- Included Wi-Fi

- Included up to 3 specialty restaurant visits depending upon duration of cruise

 

Sounds a lot like Seabourn at least on paper.  Let's get this assimilation over with and everyone can make their choices and get on with life.  🙂

 

 

Have they reduced the passenger count by 75%?  Have they expanded all staterooms to a decent size?  Have they upgraded amenities?  Is caviar plentiful and complimentary?  Have them eliminated photographers, gold by the inch and lines ?  Is the  MDR now serving edible food?

Nope.

[SLSD]

2 hours ago, DTtravelers said:

I would have to agree with Hlitner.  G__ forbid they ever munge the two together!!!

 

Note: I usually only post to share knowledge gained from past experiences or to offer an attempt (usually weak) at humor, and am generally positive.  So please pardon the rant portion that follows.

 

We spent 39 days on Noordam on a transpacific this spring, and just finished 25 days in the Arctic on Venture in August.  

HAL?
 
Well, we were 4 star Mariners, hadn't sailed with them for a while, and we had a two week New Zealand land tour in March which ended after Sojourn already left.

 

The Good: Really good food, excellent service.  Restaurant open for breakfast and lunch daily.  Really good fruit.  Everything was served timely and hot - 39 days in a row.  Never stood in line whether at 5:30, 6:30 or 7:30.  Someone on the HAL CC board mentioned they up their game for longer cruises.  Happy hour drinks for an affordable half price.  Great classical trio.  Good port shuttles.  Ship was well maintained.  We enjoyed most of the entertainment.

 

The Bad: EVERYTHING IS SO LOUD!!! (oops, sorry for shouting).  The Irish opera singer was so loud I had to tear up a paper napkin and stuff it in my ears.  My wife thought about it for another song and did the same.  The Rolling Stone Lounge was always so loud that we couldn't even take it outside just walking by.  The "Grand Salon", which I renamed the "Cough-a-torium" was where everyone with respiratory illnesses liked to gather...  my wife succumbed, but somehow I miraculously escaped.  The Lido at lunch was always a scramble.  We were only allowed out on the front viewing areas three times in 39 days.  I won't mention the "art," nagging photographers, or jewelry sales...  nope.

 

The Ugly: We sprang for a Signature Suite from Sydney to Vancouver since there would be so many sea days.  The room was very comparable to regular Seabourn suites, except that it lacked any sort of functional air conditioning.  But that was okay since we were in hot, humid, equatorial areas for about half the trip (insert "dripping" sarcasm here).  We had to keep the curtains drawn all day to try to keep the sun and heat out, and had a fan blowing on us at night, sometimes with a wet towel on me to help cool from evaporation.  They offered us a "sleeping room" that was far aft.  The throbbing of the azipods was so loud there that I rejected that.  So let's see... cannot use the room by day, and then go sleep somewhere else at night with our clothes scattered in two rooms???  And pay more than twice as much as the category A room we had the first two weeks?  The one that had air conditioning? 

 

The folks at the front desk said "someone is working on it"  I should have asked who the "someone" was that was working, and what was "it"  They were just trying to appease.   Nobody was working on anything as far as I could tell.  One of the engineers later told us that the ship used the ocean for cooling and it was not designed to reject heat into 85 degree water.  He said it would be better once we got to Hawaii.  What HE said was exactly true...  Oh, did I mention that the Restaurant and public areas were always rather cold?

 

They offered us $500 FCC which I immediately rejected since we had already decided that we would not be sailing with them again.  They eventually gave us $500 back, which was a trivial 3.5%.  We took it as we wanted it resolved before we got off the ship.  No sense adding insult to injury trying to deal with the home office.  I sent a detailed letter to them.  Crickets.  Apparently we have both written each other off.  I unsubscribed from their marketing and blocked them from sending any more emails.

 

In fairness, there were a lot of folks on board that really enjoyed the trip.  It just is not for us any longer.  

Seabourn?  

 

We had an excellent month on Encore in the Eastern Med last fall, and an outstanding voyage in Iceland and Greenland in August on Venture, along with two great trips to Alaska in '22 and '23.  On Venture, we knew 25 or so team/crew members from previous voyages, and met some new, really excellent staff that we hope to see again.  The captain stopped by and chatted with us for almost 45 minutes one evening.  We discovered that he was second in command on Quest when we did the Antarctic in 2019!  Lot's of great memories to share.

 

The scenery in Scoresby Sound and Northeast Greenland National Park was mind-boggling.  Painted mountains unlike anything I have ever seen.  Polar bears, muskox, arctic foxes and hares.  Even a lemming.  When is the last time you felt like a kid in a candy store??  Day after day?   

 

I believe that Venture and Pursuit were a great addition to Seabourn's fleet.  Venture allowed us to do things that their other ships could not do.  We had excellent expedition teams.  We look forward to sailing with them again.

In summary:

 

HAL - Apples (with some worm holes)
Seabourn - Oranges

 

Joining the two??  BIG, BIG MISTAKE. If that ever happens, then I will employ one of my favorite lines from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "Run away! Run away!"  

 

I totally get it.  The two should not be joined--but that is our opinion.  There is no guarantee that they will not be joined.  At least on HAL the MDR was open for breakfast and luncn.  Who knows how Carnival will handle things.  All I can say is that is it hard to foret getting an email congratulating us for sailing with Holland America when we were booked on a Seabourn voyage.