A Modest Defense of NCLA Crew

[sunshine 229]

I worked for Amtrak for 4 years in onboard service out of Washington, DC when I first got out of the service. They had about 30 openings and there was just under 20 of us in our 4 week training calls. After the first year barely half of us were left. By the time I left 4 years later, there might have been 2 or 3 others still working from my class. That was only being gone about 3 nights a week. I can't imagine how many people NCLA has to go through until they find people that will actually stick it out for awhile. Another poster said in another thread that the international ships have 100,000's of people to choose from and can be extremely picky about who they hire, but we just don't have that base here. I also read that on international ships, they have maybe a day of safety training, then it's out to there department to work.

 

International cruise ships are very safe, but compared to the regulations US flagged ships must follow, I would rather sail a US ship.

 

Michael

 

As far as safety goes I think you are right. The lower tolerance for alcohol and drugs and the more rigid training requirements should mean an American crew is as ready as can be to face any safety issues.

 

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are certain minimum numbers of crew that must be on board before a ship sails so despite comments that the PO ships may be understaffed at times, even if your cabin doesn't get cleaned as often as you'd like, there should be enough crew to handle any emergency situations.

[dwrist]

As far as safety goes I think you are right. The lower tolerance for alcohol and drugs and the more rigid training requirements should mean an American crew is as ready as can be to face any safety issues.

QUOTE]

 

Can you explain what you mean with this statement, please. Who has the lower tolerance for alcohol and drugs? IF you mean the international crew, I disagree strongly. Americans are noted for their drunkeness and use of illegal drugs. The international crew members I have talked to have a much more healthy attitude to their bodies than Americans. Many of them only drink water and juices and eat sensible. I remember the newspaper articles friends would send me when the POAL was on the west coast before sailing to Hawaii with the American crew onboard with passengers. Crew were going off the ship and coming back drunk and then leaving the ship at the next port because they did not like the consequences to their actions of drinking. As far as training requirements, do you not think all sort of training is required for all cruise ships, whether international or American? Do you believe that all cruise line parent companies welcome lawsuits and complaints? I have yet to sail on NCLA but this message board and the people that write on it will not stop me from sailing on NCLA and making my cruise enjoyable.

[Maholla]

dwist- I believe the "low tolerance" mentioned before referenced the US Coast Guard standards that US-Flagged ships are held to. This means a zero-tolerance narcotics policy (including random crew drug tests) and a strict adherence to the .04%BAC. These are much stricter and heavier enforced than many internationally-flagged ships.

 

I won't lie-- yes, there are a few kids that drink too much-- these are the ones that tend not to stay on board for too long. I believe you are painting about 900 crew members on each ship with the actions of a few bad apples. And on the whole, we really are pretty healthy, wholesome people (soda isn't served in our dining room, either!), the lifestyle requires good health.

 

As for training, I can't say anything about the international fleets, but I'm relatively certain that no other line has such an intensive training program as NCLA. (again, as required by US-Flagged passenger ships!) It really is an amazing program.

 

I would also like to edit this to add: I am indeed an American, and definitely not known to abuse drugs or alcohol, much like most of the people I work with. Believe me-- drug and alcohol addicts can not possibly have what it takes to work shipboard!

[2cruiseagain]

Mexico and Europe I found just about everybody slower paced than Americans. I rather liked that actually but I could hardly say they worked harder than Americans because from what I could see, they didn't.

 

Trying having a sit down meal in less than 3 hours in Italy!!! No chance. Sit back, enjoy your meal and your table mates.

[2cruiseagain]

I do have a question though. A number of posters report that when they first get to their rooms, their rooms aren't cleaned or a poor job of cleaning is done. Is there a special cleaning crew that comes on when the ships are docked in Honolulu ending a trip and beginning another one to help turn the cabins over? If not, that might be a solution so that the ship's crew can at least take a couple of ours off between sailings.

 

Thanks for starting this informative thread.

 

I noticed a lot of the cabin stewards were hauling luggage to staterooms. On other ships, it seems they had land based employees doing this. No way to deliver bags and clean at the same time, so a short cleaning staff becomes even shorter on the turnaround day.

[ccchawn]

I have to stand up for the hard working kids and others on the cruise! Almost all of them were working VERY hard, and were always smiling and saying "Aloha" to the guests as they walked by.

 

Yes, I heard people complain, but all complaints that I heard were ridiculous and I was embarrassed that anyone would complain (in such nasty ways) about really very small fixible problems.

 

No, not everything was perfect. But what in life is? Our room was not made up until after 5p on the last night of the cruise. We could deal with that. We only got a mint on our pillow 2 nights. So what. Little things really.

 

But meals. Oh my! How can anyone complain? They were wonderful in the main dining room and the speciality restaurants. Buffet was a buffet...some food was good some not. But the main dining rooms and specialty restaurants - yummy! And breakfast in the dining room (eggs benedict) were wonderful. deserts were great, steak quite good, appetizers were amazing.

 

I really enjoyed the cruise, and didn't see ANY lazy crew members.

 

Enjoy your cruise and the crew!

 

Aloha!

[sunshine 229]

dwist- I believe the "low tolerance" mentioned before referenced the US Coast Guard standards that US-Flagged ships are held to. This means a zero-tolerance narcotics policy (including random crew drug tests) and a strict adherence to the .04%BAC. These are much stricter and heavier enforced than many internationally-flagged ships.

 

I won't lie-- yes, there are a few kids that drink too much-- these are the ones that tend not to stay on board for too long. I believe you are painting about 900 crew members on each ship with the actions of a few bad apples. And on the whole, we really are pretty healthy, wholesome people (soda isn't served in our dining room, either!), the lifestyle requires good health.

 

As for training, I can't say anything about the international fleets, but I'm relatively certain that no other line has such an intensive training program as NCLA. (again, as required by US-Flagged passenger ships!) It really is an amazing program.

 

I would also like to edit this to add: I am indeed an American, and definitely not known to abuse drugs or alcohol, much like most of the people I work with. Believe me-- drug and alcohol addicts can not possibly have what it takes to work shipboard!

 

Thank you for answering that for me. yes, what you said is what I meant.

 

Also, I think I have heard that getting the Merchant Mariner Card (did I get that name right?) requires a pretty strict background check which is again more rigorous than what international crew members have to undergo. (Correct me if I have it wrong, since I guess you have more up to date, first hand information about this.)

[dwrist]

Thanks Maholla for the clarification. Sunshine, I am sorry if I came across as antagonistic toward your post. I did not want to sound that way. This is a text message board and it is hard to write happily. :D

[sunshine 229]

Thanks Maholla for the clarification. Sunshine, I am sorry if I came across as antagonistic toward your post. I did not want to sound that way. This is a text message board and it is hard to write happily. :D

 

As long as you feel happy when your writing that is the main thing! :D

 

I hope you do enjoy your NCLA cruise when you take it. Have you decided on a ship yet?

[GMCOLT]

It is great to hear from crew. I was lucky enough to be invited to the christening of the Pride of America on June 17, 2005 in New York. I presented 2 models to NCLA. I was very proud to see our flag raised on this ship after 53 years. You can say what you want. At least NCLA is hiring Americans.

The Coast Guard and Unions want to make sure crew is properly trained and they should be.

I have become friends with assorted crew from various lines. Believe me, the poster is correct about the alcohol issue on international ships. Except NCL-they are also strict with their international crews asa well. On one cruise on another line my wife and I encountered an Engineer who was so intoxicated he could barely talk. This was a person who had many stripes on his shirt plus the propellor, which means engineer, a key position should an emergency occur.

Last year I met an NCLA crew member on vacation with her mother on NCL majesty. It was clear she loved her job and was proud to work on POAM.

I work for a steel frabricator/erector in the Northeast. This week we spent nearly $500 giving safety orientation to a new employee who promptly quit when he was assigned his 1st job cleaning steel and painting it. I was amazed as this new hire "needed work". This happens to not just NCLA.

[tomluvsaida]

Sorry, I've spent a lot of time reading about the NCLA ships but I hadn't seen those news stories about the Pride of Hawaii losing staff like that.

 

That is too bad, I was hoping that the situation was improving and that NCLA was doing better at keeping staff on these ships. Of course there is going to be some turnover on any ship but if there were news stories about staff walking off POH too, it sounds like they are still having more than normal problems.to Do you have a link or any information about where I could find those news reports?

 

I thought you were talking about POH. I read some early reports like that, however with all the Pride ships the reviews have gotten better over time. Lets give POH a chance. It's only been in service for a little over a couple of months and already there are at leat 4 positive reviews I know of for July alone.

[German]

Thank you for answering that for me. yes, what you said is what I meant.

 

Also, I think I have heard that getting the Merchant Mariner Card (did I get that name right?) requires a pretty strict background check which is again more rigorous than what international crew members have to undergo. (Correct me if I have it wrong, since I guess you have more up to date, first hand information about this.)

 

Sunshine299,

Sorry, I just looked up the requirement for a Merchant Marine Documentation (US Coast Guard). And all being equal I think my work place does a better job doing a background check on a warehouse person nowadays. All information seems to come from the individual applying (if they do not apply for a deckhand job and above) without the company doing their own background check. Deck jobs and above require previous experience with "underway days" for deck ratings which makes them "able" seaman (requires proof), Service personnel does not need this qualification, since no prior experience is required. It looks like they need to pass a drug and finger print test. Not so different from what is prudent for most businesses nowaday. If this is holding up getting people on the ships after they submitted all the required paperwork, that is clearly an HR problem at NCLA, this is with a caveat that the folks were told that they need to apply for the MMD first.

 

I think the rest is left up to management's training.

[crew mom]

NCL crew also has a background check run. I would assume that is dictated by Homeland Security as crew comes on US soil every week.

 

NCL also has a zero tolerance drug policy and crew is subject to random alcohol tests.

 

US Coast Guard requires that US flagged crew receive their safety training prior to employment on board ship. NCL trains all crew during their first weeks on board. They probably cover many of the same procedures. NCL employees are also encouraged to take additional classes. They also have training classes whenever they change ships.

 

NCLA has a harder time staffing with experienced crew members as there had been fewer US staffed cruise lines in comparison to Int'l lines. So it takes time to train new hires since it's all on the job training.

 

Other than crew nationality, vacation time, benefits, and Merchant Mariner card, there are not many differences between the 2 lines. The general policies are the same.

[dwrist]

NCL crew also has a background check run. I would assume that is dictated by Homeland Security as crew comes on US soil every week.

 

NCL also has a zero tolerance drug policy and crew is subject to random alcohol tests.

 

US Coast Guard requires that US flagged crew receive their safety training prior to employment on board ship. NCL trains all crew during their first weeks on board. They probably cover many of the same procedures. NCL employees are also encouraged to take additional classes. They also have training classes whenever they change ships.

 

NCLA has a harder time staffing with experienced crew members as there had been fewer US staffed cruise lines in comparison to Int'l lines. So it takes time to train new hires since it's all on the job training.

 

Other than crew nationality, vacation time, benefits, and Merchant Mariner card, there are not many differences between the 2 lines. The general policies are the same.

 

So then from this statement from crew mom, we can adopt a wait and see attitude with NCLA and watch for the turn around that should come with training maturity from the workers. Maybe that is happening now and that is why we are seeing more postive reviews. Thanks for this thread. To me it has been very helpful.

Maholla, are you coming back to NCLA and with what ship? Crew mom, which ship is your son on?

Mahalo

[sunshine 229]

Sunshine299,

Sorry, I just looked up the requirement for a Merchant Marine Documentation (US Coast Guard). And all being equal I think my work place does a better job doing a background check on a warehouse person nowadays. All information seems to come from the individual applying (if they do not apply for a deckhand job and above) without the company doing their own background check. Deck jobs and above require previous experience with "underway days" for deck ratings which makes them "able" seaman (requires proof), Service personnel does not need this qualification, since no prior experience is required. It looks like they need to pass a drug and finger print test. Not so different from what is prudent for most businesses nowaday. If this is holding up getting people on the ships after they submitted all the required paperwork, that is clearly an HR problem at NCLA, this is with a caveat that the folks were told that they need to apply for the MMD first.

 

I think the rest is left up to management's training.

 

Thanks for that info. I thought I had read that NCL sometimes had staff who were fully trained but were sitting in a hotel waiting to be allowed to work on the NCLA ships because they had not yet received their MM cards, and that a number of applicants were denied their card because the background check had turned up some past indiscretion.

 

Of course that was way back at the time of the PO Aloha launch and hopefully NCL has now adapted and built the time for getting MM cards into the system.

[POLSON]

Since I was on an NCL ship that was part of the international Fleet, I can inform you that the crews go through a great deal of safety training. Everything from firefighting and so forth. Drills are held weekly. I am sure if you stayed on board while in port you would have heard the crew drills and seen some training in action. Crew take their training very seriously.

[Maholla]

POLSON- Good to know about the training for the international fleet. I was not aware of what goes onto pre-ship training, as the international fleet doesn't train with NCLA. I would assume that all on-ship training would be similar.

 

German- MMDs require checks from the coast guard, FBI, and homeland security, from what I understand. They take security very, very seriously. Also, I'd like to mention that crew training for NCLA are NOT told to obtain their MMDs themselves, as the company takes care of it for them.

 

Sunshine- Yeah, sadly there are kids stuck shoreside in hotels for their MMDs, a few very good friends of mine included. They've already done their three weeks of training, hung around the training school for another two weeks before getting sent to hawaii to wait for their cards. It's gotta be frustrating (for all parties involved!)

 

Dwrist- I am still with NCLA and will be returning shortly, I believe to the POAm but I'm not completely sure. They send us where they need us!

[German]

German- MMDs require checks from the coast guard, FBI, and homeland security, from what I understand. They take security very, very seriously. Also, I'd like to mention that crew training for NCLA are NOT told to obtain their MMDs themselves, as the company takes care of it for them.

 

Maholla,

Thanks for the response, and I don't doubt you since you went through it but I wish they woud make it more clear on their website (Coast Guard). From what you mentioned it just went up a notch, since our warehouse person would not have to go through FBI and Homeland Security check. Thank you for the inside information.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

Maholla I understand that your trying to keep your ID hidden but Im leaving for Piney point in about 4 weeks for training and I would Love to hear from you if you wouldnt mind.

 

jetboy787@tmail.com

 

aim: c0meflywithus

 

 

I have a huge respect for the crew on all NCLA ships and I look forward to being one myself very soon. Im out of high school and am looking forward to it.

[missie1]

just some input.......my son is currrently working as a cook in Hawaii, has been gone since day after Easter. He knew the expectations ahead of time and was sent to maryland for training (a weedingout process in itself), though the MMD card was applied for on his arrival after 4 weeks in training (they pay 50.00 per day while in training) it still hadnt come through.......he then was there 5 weeks and they flew him to SF he went aboard but couldnt be counted as crew as he had no card, a week at sea and if the MMD card wasnt in place they would put him up til it arrived. I think the Homeland Security, FBI check etc are the reasons for delay of the card. He got his MMD card just in time to be able to work as the ship left for the cruise. They are given a questionairre of sorts ahead of time so they have the chance to discuss with the recruiter if they have answered yes to any questions that will arise onthe MMD application. I know when he got his card in Hawaii there were some that were told they would NOT be getting the card sometimes just a paperwork issue which they would then be able to return to Hawaii if it was straightened out.I know he said he hasnt seen much of Hawaii as he works very long hours (not that he complained he is a good worker) They are "red flagged" I believe every three days so even their time off they are to be aboard the ship for fire duty.

 

I think many have opted out as it isnt what they expected but even with the hard work and long hours he hasnt complained to me and is considering taking another contract. They work 16-20 weeks on and then are given a ticket home with 4-5 weeks off and I believe they are offered the chance to come back (if all parties are agreeable) before their return home.

 

I have traveled NCL many times in the past on the Majesty and the one thing I have to add taking my last cruise thinking about the American Vs. Foreign staff was I couldnt imagine the American staff addressing passengers as Ms......Maam of Madam lol

[seamama1]

All of these problems mentioned here (and many not mentioned) is just what killed American Hawaii Cruise Line. (Anyone remember them?)

 

Inefficient staff, steward/stewardesses, irratic service, problems in the kitchens, crew walking off/quiting. Slowly, over a couple of years, the word got out - the ships became shabbier, service declined, prices soared and people didn't return. Their reputation went out over the travel network and people stopped booking them. It wasn't long before they folded their tents.

 

One problem they had (and I think NCLA has) is that they were the only show in town. If you wanted to cruise the Hawaiian island, you had to cruise AHC. There were one or two other U.S. based start-up cruiselines that tried to get into the market and AHC shot them down. When you have no competition, there is no incentive to exceed, excell or improve. Why should they. They have a corner on the market.

 

I don't think this will last long.

 

I don't care what anyone says, American youth are not prepared for what is expected of them in a cruise environment. They are not ready to work the long hours at low pay and be upbeat all the time while doing it. It is just another kick-in-the-pants temporary job for them. I'm not saying it is everyone but a good majority.

 

My son has lived on Maui for 8 years. He has met so many over the years, mostly young people, who come to the island expecting Paradise. They hang around for a while, end up living in the back of someones pick-up truck on the beach and try to beg, borrow or steal the money to get a one-way ticket home. When they find out they actually have to work to live there, they just want to go home.

 

I have a feeling many who hire on the cruiseships have the same sort of attitude...and find out just how much work it is - and leave.

 

Sorry for the long post.....I'll shut up now!:p

[smarterman64]

i enjoyed the cruise really. I see the points mahallo is making and i saw them throughout my cruise. but with anything, you see positives and negatives.

I'm wondering if there are any summer time jobs on the ship. I'd love to have the experience of working on the ship during the summer and cruising around hawaii. I know the hours are long, you don't get off the ship much, but the views are spectacular.

Anyway, there are things that need to be worked on on the ship, but it's not too bad.

[dwrist]

i enjoyed the cruise really. I see the points mahallo is making and i saw them throughout my cruise. but with anything, you see positives and negatives.

I'm wondering if there are any summer time jobs on the ship. I'd love to have the experience of working on the ship during the summer and cruising around hawaii. I know the hours are long, you don't get off the ship much, but the views are spectacular.

Anyway, there are things that need to be worked on on the ship, but it's not too bad.

 

Would you be happy to be working in Hawaii for NCLA if you worked below deck and never saw the islands??:rolleyes: Or if you were a cabin boy/girl and never had time to view the beauty of Hawaii??:rolleyes: Or the only time off was at night??:cool: Think about these questions before you commit yourself to a contract with NCLA, even if it is only for a summer contract.:)

[sunshine 229]

Would you be happy to be working in Hawaii for NCLA if you worked below deck and never saw the islands??:rolleyes: Or if you were a cabin boy/girl and never had time to view the beauty of Hawaii??:rolleyes: Or the only time off was at night??:cool: Think about these questions before you commit yourself to a contract with NCLA, even if it is only for a summer contract.:)

 

I might be wrong about this but I doubt that it would be feasible to hire people for just a summer contract. It sounds as if all the trainning and waiting for the MM cards etc. takes several weeks seems as if the person would just be starting to get on the ship and do the job when it would be time for them to go home. Maybe Mahalo could comment on that.

[smarterman64]

thought it would be a feasible idea if the process started early enough, but who knows.

Figured they'd hire extra crew for summer seeing as around 800-900 crew for 2400 is a bit much on the POH last week. And this week there's 2800 people on board, so even more. Granted it is a lot of port time, but still.