Another Passport Extension?

[tnsail]

It seems that we are gonna have a debate as humans whenever there is a change to status quo. The thing that we Americans can't seem to grasp is that the world is changing around us. "I never needed it before" "Why should I have to get one to go on just one cruise" "I don't have the money to spend $97 dollars on a passport and sail too". All of these statements have there points but the main point always is gonna come down to "What does the law say". For now it says if your gonna cruise after Dec 06 that to re-enter the US your gonna need a valid PASSPORT not a drivers license or a birth certificate. The cruise lines are not gonna let you on the ship on embarkation day cause they don't want to be stuck with you when you can't get back in. We can do want we as Americans have done for 2 centuries, debate it but do it and change it if it doesn't work but we are still gonna do it.

I bet they had this same debate when the first law that required drivers license was passed......

[Former Goalie]

OK< I have not responded to any of the passport threads until this one.

 

So many people have said it is iresponsible for people not to have a passport, that is an unfare statement. I travel a lot so yes I happen to have one however, I am traveling with my boyfriend on Jan 6th out of Miami. He does not travel a lot and is not even sure if he will like taking a cruise. So why should we have to pay a lot of money for something that he may use only once....expecially when the cruise line checks everything before you board the ship, then takes a picture of you so you can reboard? Seems to me that if you get on the ship in Miami (a US state) then you have already proven that you belong in this country, you must show all of your necessary info; so why is it so important to have a passport?

 

To me it is like having your driver's license and you must show it or get a new one every time you go to another state! So if I travel from Seattle to Portland I would need to get a new driver's license or go to the local police station and show them my current legal Washington State license....does anyone get where I am going here.

 

We are not visiting third world countries here, we are going to the Caribbean; in which some of the Islands are US occupied and others are our buddies across the pond!

 

Having to do this just adds expense (I am thankful it's only one passport we may have to get), really does not increase security, and certainly does not stop any form of terrorism.

 

Just my opinion

I've been thinking about this issue, and I agree with you. Would the requirement for passports while cruising to the Caribbean/Bahamas truly enhance security at our borders? Why is this necessary when the same passengers and crew that embark at Miami, for example, disembark the ship a few days later at the same port? I know that there may be a very small number more or less disembarking from those that embarked (for a variety of reasons), but that would show up on the ship's manifest, and be duly noted by the authorities IMHO.

Contrast this to a land crossing, where anything goes. It is not a controlled environment, for lack of a better word, like a cruise ship.

 

I talked with the ICCL, who have written PR (below) about the proposed change (it will remain just "proposed" until it is signed into law).

http://www.iccl.org/pressroom/pressrelease.cfm?whichrel=121

 

After this discussion, I think there is a very good likelihood that passport requirements to the affected areas will be pushed back past 1/8/07, except for air travel, with these caveats:

As mentioned before, this still must be signed into law.

And, June 1, 2009 would be the latest date it would be implemented were it to be signed into law, unless Homeland Security/Dept. of State resolve implementation of this new PASS system sooner.

 

http://www.state.gov is the place to check for if and when there are updates to the requirements. That will be the ultimate test. My opinions on potential passage of the 2007 Homeland Security bill are nothing more than just a layman's opinion, and these opinions could end up being incorrect.

[rvrgirl]

So why should we have to pay a lot of money for something that he may use only once....expecially when the cruise line checks everything before you board the ship, then takes a picture of you so you can reboard? Seems to me that if you get on the ship in Miami (a US state) then you have already proven that you belong in this country, you must show all of your necessary info; so why is it so important to have a passport?

 

To me it is like having your driver's license and you must show it or get a new one every time you go to another state! So if I travel from Seattle to Portland I would need to get a new driver's license or go to the local police station and show them my current legal Washington State license....does anyone get where I am going here.

 

 

 

 

When it becomes mandatory, if you want to go on a cruise...........only once...you will have to pay for one. You say that you must show all of your necessay info....my opinion, it sure is alot easier to just show your passport....LOL!

I don't understand your argument regarding the drivers license and traveling from state to state......

It really does not cost that much for a passport....what... maybe 100 bucks and it last 10 years........$10.00 a year.:)

[dst]

rvgirl: I did not say if it were mandatory we would not do it. I simply stated that for many people (excluding us) it is a lot of money. Lets take the typical family cruise (2 adults and 2 children) that is 400.00! That to some people is a lot of money. Think of what you could do with that.

 

My only point was that is seems VERY SILLY; when it really does not enhance anything. All of the work to get on the ship is already done; so it really has no purpose, IMHO!

 

If you do not understand my statement about a driver's license, then perhaps it is a good thing that you do have a passport. I really can not explain it to you :)

[GoinCruisin]

rvgirl: I did not say if it were mandatory we would not do it. I simply stated that for many people (excluding us) it is a lot of money. Lets take the typical family cruise (2 adults and 2 children) that is 400.00! That to some people is a lot of money. Think of what you could do with that.

 

My only point was that is seems VERY SILLY; when it really does not enhance anything. All of the work to get on the ship is already done; so it really has no purpose, IMHO!

 

If you do not understand my statement about a driver's license, then perhaps it is a good thing that you do have a passport. I really can not explain it to you :)

 

Add me to the list that didn't get your statement about the drivers license... entering and leaving a COUNTRY are much different than entering and leaving a state... I'm sorry you think it's silly, but the people in charge of Homeland Security don't. If you have some news to share with them on why they shouldn't do it, maybe they'll listen to you... they probably don't know what they are talking about... you seem to know that it won't enhance anything, make anything more secure, etc. Enlighten them :p It's not like passports are a new thing... they are the standard when traveling internationally... when you are on a cruise, you are still traveling internationally, and should not get preferential treatment based on your mode of transportation.

[sharonella]

I know now in the future when I cross the border into Canada I will feel so much more secure with my passport in hand.

 

You should - the passport requirement is to COME BACK INTO the country, not leave it. The fact that you need a passport to come back in should make you feel safer, becasue it means EVERYONE coming into the country requires that sort of ID

 

Sha

[GoinCruisin]

You should - the passport requirement is to COME BACK INTO the country, not leave it. The fact that you need a passport to come back in should make you feel safer, becasue it means EVERYONE coming into the country requires that sort of ID

 

Sha

 

Exactly!! The problem isn't leaving a country, it's coming back in :p Every country should require that EVERYONE stepping foot on their soil, have a passport... it's just silly not to.

[karenh1127]

I have no problem with passports being required. I am however one of those that need to get 4 all at once (I had one but it is 20 years old). I sure would be helpful financially if only my dh and I needed one first and then the kids could get theirs a year later. I propose that all adults need one but the kids be phased in. Anyone with me?

[sharonella]

rvgirl: I did not say if it were mandatory we would not do it. I simply stated that for many people (excluding us) it is a lot of money. Lets take the typical family cruise (2 adults and 2 children) that is 400.00! That to some people is a lot of money. Think of what you could do with that.

 

My only point was that is seems VERY SILLY; when it really does not enhance anything. All of the work to get on the ship is already done; so it really has no purpose, IMHO!

 

If you do not understand my statement about a driver's license, then perhaps it is a good thing that you do have a passport. I really can not explain it to you :)

 

I've been reading all your posts and I think you are a bit naive about this whole security/passport issue. You are assuming that the cruise lines - NONE of which are officially United States companies (they register under various other countries - like Panama - for for various tax & other legal purposes) - should be 100% responsible for keeping track of cruisers identities for the US government without passports? If that is left as a "loophole", you don't think "unsavory characters" might try to exploit that loophole somehow?

 

I think that something like a passport or NATIONAL ID should be required for everyone, regardless of whether or not they plan on leaving & reentering the country. As it is, there are 50 different types of Drivers License ID's issued - how can all the local law enforcement officers be expected to know what an out of state ID really looks like? And then you have states like Massachusetts who "upgrade" their drivers' licenses every time they feel like it. With 5 yrs between renewals, it's not unusual for a group of 5 Mass. people to actually have 5 slightly different looking Mass ID's! And don't get me started on birth certificates - every city/county/hospital bc looks different!

 

While having proper ID can be a little expensive, you can't treat a one day trip out of the country any different then a 6 month trip. There's NOTHING guaranteeing that something couldn't happen on the one-day trip to cause it to stretch into a longer one. So where would you be then? "Oh, I intended to come back last month?"

 

I think any family of 4, 6, 8, 10 or whatever should budget their time and their money and get their passports NOW & not rely on any possible extension. If you get your passport well in advance of when your final travel payments are due, it makes it easier on the wallet. While many people are not experiencing delays in getting their passports now, those who wait til the last minute WILL experience delays because there WILL be a backlog of procrastinators who clog up the system.

 

You are only thinking of how this affects YOU, who might possilby only want to leave the country once - and not looking at the big picture of national and international safety. If exceptions are made all over the place, how effective can an ID system be?

 

Sha

[sharonella]

I have no problem with passports being required. I am however one of those that need to get 4 all at once (I had one but it is 20 years old). I sure would be helpful financially if only my dh and I needed one first and then the kids could get theirs a year later. I propose that all adults need one but the kids be phased in. Anyone with me?

 

Nope - but there's nothing saying you can't send in your applications (with the checks) at different times - so you don't have to shell out all the $$$ at once (assuming you aren't traveling in less than 6 weeks!) ;)

 

Sha

[dst]

If you think that having a passport makes any of us safer.....then sleep good tonight! I on the other hand understand what the purpose is for it.....not faerty or security. Because as someone said, unsavory characters will find a passport if they really need one. Its the "regular" people who go by the rules and will have them and never really use it.

 

My only statement, that seem to get everyone worked up, was that we do all of the required paperwork to get on the ship. That in itself should make you all feel safer.

 

I have been on 11 cruises, never taken my passport off of the ship. I have traveled to several different countries and have never used my passport while in that country......so having it is for what??? The cruiselines tell you to leave your passport in the safe, so now tell me how exactly does this help us stay safer???

 

This I believe is right up there with sneaking liquor on board...something not everyone will agree on.

 

Have a pleasant evening

[GoinCruisin]

If you think that having a passport makes any of us safer.....then sleep good tonight! I on the other hand understand what the purpose is for it.....not faerty or security. Because as someone said, unsavory characters will find a passport if they really need one. Its the "regular" people who go by the rules and will have them and never really use it.

 

My only statement, that seem to get everyone worked up, was that we do all of the required paperwork to get on the ship. That in itself should make you all feel safer.

 

I have been on 11 cruises, never taken my passport off of the ship. I have traveled to several different countries and have never used my passport while in that country......so having it is for what??? The cruiselines tell you to leave your passport in the safe, so now tell me how exactly does this help us stay safer???

 

This I believe is right up there with sneaking liquor on board...something not everyone will agree on.

 

Have a pleasant evening

 

And again, it's not all about safety... and again, it is NOT about LEAVING the country... that's the easy part... it's getting back in. And it's the OTHER countries.

 

And as this seems to be all about you... LOL, I've always taken my passport off the ship, I would never step foot on foreign soil without it... The cruiseline has never told me to leave it in the safe, and if they did, I still wouldn't... That is my ticket out of that country if something should happen...so just because you don't, doesn't mean a large number of people do the same thing. Every country I have traveled to, I have needed my passport. It is a security blanket to me when I am traveling Internationally... if you don't understand why, there is nobody on the planet that could explain it to you.

 

First you say it is the expense... but you seem deadset against passports, and that is your right... but every excuse in the world isn't going to stop you from eventually having to give in to the fact that soon, everyone will have to have one to travel outside and back into, the US.

[rvrgirl]

Its the "regular" people who go by the rules and will have them and never really use it.

 

 

I have been on 11 cruises, never taken my passport off of the ship. I have traveled to several different countries and have never used my passport while in that country......so having it is for what??? The cruiselines tell you to leave your passport in the safe, so now tell me how exactly does this help us stay safer???

 

 

My opinion I would think most people who get a passport do or plan alot of traveling out of the country.

As Far as you asking "so having it is for what".....Like the other posters said you need it to RETURN to your country. If god forbid something happened to you while out of the country and you could not prove what country you are from.....let's just say it would not be a good thing. You might get back to your country.......but who knows how long it would take. If you don't have it on your person....you could contact the U.S. Embassy in that country and they would be able to help you.

And I still don't get your drivers license theory...LOL

Hope you have a safe cruise.

[GoinCruisin]

My opinion I would think most people who get a passport do or plan alot of traveling out of the country.

As Far as you asking "so having it is for what".....Like the other posters said you need it to RETURN to your country. If god forbid something happened to you while out of the country and you could not prove what country you are from.....let's just say it would not be a good thing. You might get back to your country.......but who knows how long it would take. If you don't have it on your person....you could contact the U.S. Embassy in that country and they would be able to help you.

And I still don't get your drivers license theory...LOL

Hope you have a safe cruise.

 

I'm guessing we won't get an explanation :p LOL!!!

[rvrgirl]

delete

[tkportersat]

It's ridiculous... People should have a passport to travel in and out of other countries regardless of the mode of transportation... people were prepared for the new deadline, it makes NO SENSE to change it this close to the original deadline :rolleyes:

Sounds good to me.......will save me close to $300, since I am set up to cruise in June with my kids.

[dst]

Seems the latest on the passport issue is that the extention DID go thru :)

 

As I had stated previously (Goincruisin this is for you) if you have to go thru all of the papwerwork to get on the ship; then once you are on you have gone thru regulations (or customs or whatever you would like to call it) So that is why cruiselines have ALWAYS been exempt from the passport issue; Unless you get on the ship in a foreign country. My point was only for cruising guests, not for any other travel; and as I had stated previously, I do have a passport but not for cruising; I have one for traveling to other countries. If you are on a ship you will get back into this country (unless it sinks)! So having a passport to get you back into the country is a rediculous point........So there is your explanation, I really can not put it any other way.

 

I think for all of the families out there is it a nice bonus for them to be able to use that money doing other fun things :)

[petro772]

I know now in the future when I cross the border into Canada I will feel so much more secure with my passport in hand.

 

Excellent! And with any luck the border crossing point will have one of those phone booths where you call customs to let them know you're about to enter the country! ;)

[petro772]

We are not visiting third world countries here, we are going to the Caribbean; in which some of the Islands are US occupied and others are our buddies across the pond!

 

Just a side note: how many "buddies" do you really think we have in this world? ;)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Seems the latest on the passport issue is that the extention DID go thru :)

 

As I had stated previously (Goincruisin this is for you) if you have to go thru all of the papwerwork to get on the ship; then once you are on you have gone thru regulations (or customs or whatever you would like to call it) So that is why cruiselines have ALWAYS been exempt from the passport issue; Unless you get on the ship in a foreign country. My point was only for cruising guests, not for any other travel; and as I had stated previously, I do have a passport but not for cruising; I have one for traveling to other countries. If you are on a ship you will get back into this country (unless it sinks)! So having a passport to get you back into the country is a rediculous point........So there is your explanation, I really can not put it any other way.

 

I think for all of the families out there is it a nice bonus for them to be able to use that money doing other fun things :)

 

OK so you are saying that if I go on a cruise and I miss getting back on the ship in a foreign country they'll let me back into the U.S. because I was on a cruise? I should just leave the passport home then? Cool, one less thing I need to worry about before leaving!

 

Bill

[sharonella]

Even if you leave your passport on the ship - HAVING a passport still can help you with identification - remember how you had to take TWO pictures & send them in? One pic goes on the passport, the other stays on file with the government with the rest of your information. If you get stranded in another country, the US can more easily assist you.

 

As travel regulations AROUND THE WORLD get more stringent, the only thing that is served by these delays is the people who keep procrastinating just get to put off the inevitable. At some point in the near future, getting a passport (or some other form of national photo ID) will probably be required at birth (like we now do with our social security cards).

 

Sha

[Vellamint]

Seems the latest on the passport issue is that the extention DID go thru :)

 

As I had stated previously (Goincruisin this is for you) if you have to go thru all of the papwerwork to get on the ship; then once you are on you have gone thru regulations (or customs or whatever you would like to call it) So that is why cruiselines have ALWAYS been exempt from the passport issue; Unless you get on the ship in a foreign country. My point was only for cruising guests, not for any other travel; and as I had stated previously, I do have a passport but not for cruising; I have one for traveling to other countries. If you are on a ship you will get back into this country (unless it sinks)! So having a passport to get you back into the country is a rediculous point........So there is your explanation, I really can not put it any other way.

 

I think for all of the families out there is it a nice bonus for them to be able to use that money doing other fun things :)

 

DID it go through? While I DO realize that we will need to get one in future ..... it would sure help my family of six with our first cruise $ wise!!

[sharonella]

DID it go through? While I DO realize that we will need to get one in future ..... it would sure help my family of six with our first cruise $ wise!!

 

I would still recommend getting them now, or at least some of them now - Get the photos taken & all the birth certifcates & forms in order, then send in the applications 1 or 2 at a time, as your budget allows. Why wait & then do it all at once later??????????? You'll be in the same boat with a big bill all at one time!

 

I totally "get" that it's a big chunk of $$ for a big family - I come from a family with 7 kids - if all NINE of us had traveled outside the country together, it would have been very expensive to get all the passports at the same time. But I learned from my parents about budgeting & planning ahead. Just "putting it off til later" will do nothing for you in the long run - you'll still need to get the passports eventually and they will still cost $$.

 

And you know what? The cost could even go up by the time you get around to it. You know how it is - does the cost of postage ever go down? Registering your car? Renewing your drivers' license?

 

If you look at the cost of just one passport - do you spend that much money taking your family of 6 to a meal at McDonald's or for pizza? Eat at home that day & send in a passport app instead!! My folks would always do stuff like that and tell us why, in order to get the whole family "invested" & involved in saving money towards something important to all of us.

 

Sha

[cherylandtk]

As of now it is still pending legislation, that per the State Dept. Passport website. Yes, that puts lots of families in limbo. Depending on when you cruise, you may have to roll the dice and gamble on it passing (or not). Your bet is either the cost of the passports or the cost of the cruise.

 

Edit-To Vellamint, with an Aug '07 cruise, you can wait a few more months and see if you will need them; and then use the one-at-a-time approach suggested by Sharonella if you do.

To Sharonella--I like your parents and their approach to goals and achievements. :D

[wrp96]

Guys, the legislation is still PENDING. That means the deadline is still January 8, 2007. Until you see a change on travel.state.gov (the State Department's website), do not assume you do not need a passport to cruise next year. Now if you are cruising later in the year, you have time to wait and see what actually happens (if the legislation passes, how it is implemented, etc). BUT, if you are cruising in January, you are starting to run out of time to get your passport. If you are waiting to get yours hoping to "save" money by not getting one, what happens if you keep waiting, the deadline doesn't change, and you have to spend more money to expedite your passport to get it in time for your January cruise.

 

What the State Department's website says today:

 

New Requirements for Travelers

 

 

 

October 3, 2006: This information does not reflect important changes to the WHTI expected from pending legislation. We will update this page once that legislation has been finalized.

The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 requires that by January 1, 2008, travelers to and from the Caribbean, Bermuda, Panama, Mexico and Canada have a passport or other secure, accepted document to enter or re-enter the United States. In order to facilitate the implementation of this requirement, the Administration is proposing to complete it in phases following a proposed timeline, which will be published in the Federal Register in the near future.

In the proposed implementation plan, which is subject to a period of initial public comment, the Initiative will be rolled out in phases, providing as much advance notice as possible to the affected public to enable them to meet the terms of the new guidelines. The proposed timeline will be as follows:

• January 8, 2007 - Requirement applied to all air and sea travel to or from Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, and Bermuda.
  
• January 1, 2008 - Requirement extended to all land border crossings as well as air and sea travel.

This is a change from prior travel requirements and will affect all United States citizens entering the United States from countries within the Western Hemisphere who do not currently possess valid passports. This new requirement will also affect certain foreign nationals who currently are not required to present a passport to travel to the United States. Most Canadian citizens, citizens of the British Overseas Territory of Bermuda, and to a lesser degree, Mexican citizens will be affected by the implementation of this requirement.