"This was bad about my cruise" -flame shame

[PrincessDreams4P&B]

So for months now, I have read the boards, participated in conversations and tried to be helpful where I could. The CC boards helped me and my family prepare for our first every cruise on 10/21 and it was everything we had hoped for. Now here is my issue,

 

Everyday I read a posting where someone has a legitimate (I mean legitimate, not gee everything else on my cruise was great but the coffee sucked and due to that my cruise was ruined) complaint. I then brace myself for the comments that come after. There has been much debate about the tenaciousness of some of our more avid members who love Princess. I understand that when you are happy with something and you have cruised several or many many times, that you feel loyalty and almost protective. Posters may feel almost like a friend is being attacked and they get into defense mode...

 

however here is where I caution,

 

There is a need to have people post when things go wrong or they are unhappy. If as a community we are aware of when issues like this arise and we see how they are handled by the staff and sometimes more importantly the individual, we can learn from this, anticipate how to handle or help our situation when or if it happens to us. If someone is frustrated by an event that happened to them and their response is to say "Well I am never going to sail on Princess again" and your respone is "Bye" (as I noted in another posting), you are missing an opportunity to help save a customer for your beloved cruise line and you run the risk of alienating a potential cruiser. If posters believe that the cruiseline is not listening to their (again legitimate) complaints and then they come to the CC Boards, only to have that compounded.

 

I cannot stress enough that critisism is extremely important to improve everyone's cruising experience. Princess should always be striving for that and so should we as a community of cruisers. Do you really want to sail on a cruiseline that says, "yeah we've improved as much as we want to and that's good enough". I feel that too many CC'ers are missing the boat (sorry about the pun) about compaints or critiques.

 

I know that after hearing complaints and critiques, I was much better prepared for my cruise and was able to anticipate, even prevent things from happening. Your never going to make everyone happy all the time, and some people you just can't simply ever make them happy, however remember that while it is great that all of your cruises may have been wonderful experiences, that is not always the case for everyone. Be constructive, be understanding (always go from the stand point of "well what if this had happed to me, what would I have done or how would I have felt) and above all, be fair.

 

I hope all of my fellow CC'ers have a wonderful Holiday Season!

[dforeigner]

I agree with your post. There is plenty of flaming going around regardless. I have seen posts from people based solely on their personal believes and opinions rather than facts and/or experience, for instance, when it comes to legal and medical questions. From what I been able to gather, most people are flamed when posting a rather subjective thread rather than an objective one. People have different expectations and demands will vary as well.

I could go on and on but will leave it at that.

[cynbar]

Thanks for your post -- you certainly have a number of good points. I agree that constructive criticism is good for the cruise line and educational for everyone -- and it's absolutely true that some of those posters get flamed!! But the posts that get the strongest reaction are in a different category -- they are so negative and vitriolic that their intent is to convence others to never cruise Princess again. There is a big difference between a complaint and a tirade. Some of these posters deserve to hear a "Bye...." . But the challenge to all of us is to recognize the difference....

[mexico5]

Princess,

 

Hi, you took the words right out of my mouth. Like you, I was researching on here, trying to find out as much as I could before my first cruise.

 

I equally want to hear good reviews AND bad reviews. If everyone makes it sound like a rose garden, then you can only be disappointed when you arrive. Like you, I take everything with a grain of salt, but I STILL want to hear from the people who had an awful time.

 

There is, sadly, about three people on this board who remind me of schoolyard bullies.

 

I want to read the good, bad and ugly and form my own conclusions.

[firefly333]

I have been here only about one week and got a ID because someone asked for the answers to one of the trivia contests which I had answers for.

 

After that I read a couple of reviews of the same cruise I had gone on.

 

I had nothing in mind other than to be helpfull with a couple of things I thought I would mention and could not believe the stoning of the original poster and folks criticizing me. Someone else posted how they hate a brand new poster who is critical. How would you feel if you were new?

 

I brought up that I had gotten the shopping books and been shocked that I was charged $20 each for them.

 

One poster said well if I had gone into the theater instead of off to play bridge it would have been made clear and everyone was upset with me for saying I thought it was underhanded. It's wierd no one has any sympathy for anything that goes wrong and attacks the person who mentions a problem thinking it might save someone else from grief.

 

If the folks giving out the books state to me that they need my name and cabin # because the books are limited I take them at their word and dont read into it, we plan on charging you even though we are not telling you that and no where on the paper says that. Maybe my warning would save someone else $20 is what I thought by posting it. I was really surprised how anything negative is attacked.

 

Do a lot of employees work here and want to cover problems up? The reaction to what someone says was surprising to me as a newbie here. I came to learn and pick up tips. Why I only high praise, wanted? Everyone is different and will react different. Why not just say thanks for your review or the items you are interested in, learn from them or comment without making negative personal remarks about the poster. The thread about the Princess Grand got pretty nasty.

 

I agree with the above poster, some sure are protective and defensive of Princess to attack the poster that way. It reflects badly on the poster attacking to me who could not allow someone to post their legitimate opinion.

[flarad]

I absolutely agree with the OP. I have been on this Princess board for a couple of months now, just before we booked our next cruise and I have been appalled at the flaming that goes on. People criticize the poster and make comments about them as a person (as if they know anything about a peron from an on line environment) rather that discussing the topic. I will say I've been on several other boards for different cruise lines (NCL and Disney) and haven't seen that kind of interaction. Perhaps when one or two do it others feel more comfortable letting loose. I love this site for the information, both good and bad, that's available. I learn, then my DH and I can take the info and use what we want.:rolleyes:

[drk]

If you think the Princess boards are bad for flaming you should read the Celebrity boards...and yes I agree that the flaming gets a little out of hand and we can all learn from other peoples experiences.

[wizard-of-roz]

Don't you know that there are the "lurkers".....they have nothing positive to say and can't wait for someone to open up a topic that they can spew their venom on!

I, too, have been guilty of being "negative" at one time or another and was attacked for doing so and then reminded that I could be put on the "don't read thread" list!

There is nothing wrong with someone sharing their experiences; be them negative or positive.

Some people, on these boards, think they own them and that everyone has to respond the way they want them to.

I read; I respond; I joke; I complain; I give praise; it all makes these boards more interesting to read!

[sun&sea]

I agree with the OP. Sometimes I feel that some responses sound like a scolding parent. When I read someone write, "My steak was like leather" (for example) I interpret that to be that HIS steak tasted like leather to HIM. Some respond by saying "You must be crazy, I had a steak and I liked it!" The person writing the review is stating HIS perception, not EVERYONE's perception. If your friends state they had a bad day, do you respond by saying you didn't and they must be wrong!!!!

 

One time I wrote a review about a 4 month old ship I sailed on. I had an awsome time and loved the ship. However, one of the things that surprised me was that I saw several large stains on the carpet. End of statement. WELL, responses went on and on on how I shouldn't let a few stains bother me and then it progressed to maybe I need to get a life, etc.!!! Well, believe me, that will be the last review I will post.

 

Please, just let some people post their views and hold the scolding. We are all here to learn.

 

Janet

[cactusrose]

I also agree. Everyone has a right to post their opinions without being ridiculed. If you don't agree with the poster simply move on. It isn't necessary to make nasty remarks. I hope anyone who has experienced this will not be discouraged and continue to participate in this community.

[Clutterlady]

Please be aware that the cheerleaders are on all boards, not just Princess. I think the Celebrity and NCL cheerleaders are having a "pep rally" this week!;)

[ccrain]

There are legitimate questions to be asked of any OP who, for the most part in the initial posting, will almost always emphasize their point of view...

 

There are ALWAYS two sides to a story. One person's flaming is another person's quest for more accurate information.

 

Furthermore, anyone who expects to make a rationale judgement without at least hearing the other side is as unfair as some of the "cheerleader" accusations now being floated.

 

There are a few negative threads where the OP has remained engaged and been very thorough in their critique of the problems. In those threads, the OP's opinion has been respected and very few "flames" were generated. A few of those have even been by so-called Princess "Cheerleaders".

 

On the other hand there are also many negative trolling posts...

 

In the middle of those two extremes are a lot of complaint posts that are hard to characterize without substantial "cross examination":

 

Did the OP go to the Matre'De, the cabin steward's supervisor, send the food back, talk to the shore excursion manager, while on-board to resolve the issue?

 

If so, what was the result?

 

If not, why not? Was the incident or chain of events not of sufficient importance to inform management?

 

I find the give and take, back and forth between OPs, or their "substitutes" and the "cheerleaders" sometimes enlightening, but mostly hilarious.

 

I also see that the number one basis for complaints are unmet expectations. I have overheard on-board and seen in various posts a wide variety of negative comments based on what the person thought they were going to get, versus what they ended up with.

 

In addition, I have noticed the number two basis for complaint is the lack of immediacy - a direct result of our impatient and "want it NOW" society. I even find myself succumbing to this on occasion while waiting in line on a ship for no good apparent reason.

 

At which time I simpy either slap myself, have my wife slap me or just simply get a grip, shut up and remember how it was installing instrumentation outside in Alabama in August or rolling an Excursion on a frozen road in Idaho in December.

 

Things could be worse...a lot worse.

[bunduo]

Please be aware that the cheerleaders are on all boards, not just Princess. I think the Celebrity and NCL cheerleaders are having a "pep rally" this week!;)

 

IMO, cruiseline cheerleaders share much in common but the NCL cheerleaders are the worst. They have it down to a science. It's shockingly mean-spirited. What makes the NCL board unique is that a poster that is critical of the cruiseline can be attacked without reprecussions. Once they OP retaliates, all of sudden the board guidelines come into play and they shut down the thread. Sometimes it seems some of the cheerleaders are employed by the NCL.

 

Yes, the cruiselines provide for wonderful vacations but the cheerleaders don't understand that this message board gives consumer's power. When we communicate our displeasure about an aspect of the cruise, the cruiselines listen. It's priceless information that the cruiselines covet. Why do you think they hand out surveys after every cruise?

[huskerdan25]

There are legitimate questions to be asked of any OP who, for the most part in the initial posting, will almost always emphasize their point of view...

 

There are ALWAYS two sides to a story. One person's flaming is another person's quest for more accurate information.

 

Furthermore, anyone who expects to make a rationale judgement without at least hearing the other side is as unfair as some of the "cheerleader" accusations now being floated.

 

There are a few negative threads where the OP has remained engaged and been very thorough in their critique of the problems. In those threads, the OP's opinion has been respected and very few "flames" were generated. A few of those have even been by so-called Princess "Cheerleaders".

 

On the other hand there are also many negative trolling posts...

 

In the middle of those two extremes are a lot of complaint posts that are hard to characterize without substantial "cross examination":

 

Did the OP go to the Matre'De, the cabin steward's supervisor, send the food back, talk to the shore excursion manager, while on-board to resolve the issue?

 

If so, what was the result?

 

If not, why not? Was the incident or chain of events not of sufficient importance to inform management?

 

I find the give and take, back and forth between OPs, or their "substitutes" and the "cheerleaders" sometimes enlightening, but mostly hilarious.

 

I also see that the number one basis for complaints are unmet expectations. I have overheard on-board and seen in various posts a wide variety of negative comments based on what the person thought they were going to get, versus what they ended up with.

 

In addition, I have noticed the number two basis for complaint is the lack of immediacy - a direct result of our impatient and "want it NOW" society. I even find myself succumbing to this on occasion while waiting in line on a ship for no good apparent reason.

 

At which time I simpy either slap myself, have my wife slap me or just simply get a grip, shut up and remember how it was installing instrumentation outside in Alabama in August or rolling an Excursion on a frozen road in Idaho in December.

 

Things could be worse...a lot worse.

 

I'm with ccrain here. Too often when someone asks questions to get a better perspective on the experience the OP has posted in their review, that questioning is labeled as being an attack when it is not. We all view things differently and I think it is important, especially if I am going to accept a review as being a good one, to understand the OP. As ccrain has mentioned, many times, it's really an expectations issue.

 

I look at reviews as a group. If the majority of reviews are negative for a particular cruise or ship, then that will catch my attention. But if the majority of reviews for a cruise or ship are positive and there are the extraordinary reviews that are very negative, then I will chalk those reviews up as being outside the norm and while some of the information may be helpful, they won't really impact my opinion. It's when the review is almost totally negative that I chalk that up as the reviewer most likely can't be made happy or should not be cruising. It's the "I had a terrible cruise and will never cruise so-and-so cruiseline again" reviews that I totally disregard.

 

I think ccrains latest review of the Dawn cruise is a perfect template for how to write a review and is the type of review that is the most helpful. No cruise is perfect and a balance of good and bad experiences are more helpful than the "I will never cruise this cruiseline again" reviews. ccrain, thanks for the fine review of the Dawn!

 

Dan

[sjbdtz]

I have been here only about one week and got a ID because someone asked for the answers to one of the trivia contests which I had answers for.

 

After that I read a couple of reviews of the same cruise I had gone on.

 

I had nothing in mind other than to be helpfull with a couple of things I thought I would mention and could not believe the stoning of the original poster and folks criticizing me. Someone else posted how they hate a brand new poster who is critical. How would you feel if you were new?

 

I brought up that I had gotten the shopping books and been shocked that I was charged $20 each for them.

 

One poster said well if I had gone into the theater instead of off to play bridge it would have been made clear and everyone was upset with me for saying I thought it was underhanded. It's wierd no one has any sympathy for anything that goes wrong and attacks the person who mentions a problem thinking it might save someone else from grief.

 

If the folks giving out the books state to me that they need my name and cabin # because the books are limited I take them at their word and dont read into it, we plan on charging you even though we are not telling you that and no where on the paper says that. Maybe my warning would save someone else $20 is what I thought by posting it. I was really surprised how anything negative is attacked.

 

Do a lot of employees work here and want to cover problems up? The reaction to what someone says was surprising to me as a newbie here. I came to learn and pick up tips. Why I only high praise, wanted? Everyone is different and will react different. Why not just say thanks for your review or the items you are interested in, learn from them or comment without making negative personal remarks about the poster. The thread about the Princess Grand got pretty nasty.

 

I agree with the above poster, some sure are protective and defensive of Princess to attack the poster that way. It reflects badly on the poster attacking to me who could not allow someone to post their legitimate opinion.

 

I haven't yet cruised with Princess, and wasn't on the thread where you were criticized.

 

But even in THIS message, you use the term "underhanded". That suggests nefarious, or possibly even fraudulent.

 

Those are serious accusations, which without proof can be considered libelous.

 

One of the worst things with first-time posters is the use of terms such as:

 

theft

underhanded

fraud

deceit

lying

disaster

ruined

 

,....and so on. Then they go on to explain how they didn't understand a charge, or they were upset at getting their final bill.

 

Disasters are when a tornado wipes out your home & family when seconds before everything was peaceful.

 

They're NOT when someone didn't clean your room until 12:30 pm.

 

 

Remember that we only have the OPs word...we don't have tone-of-voice, or body language and sometimes this can be misleading...which leads to apparent over-reactions in response.

 

The worst however is when someone (and I'm mega-guilty of this) comes into a new cruiseline board (like NCL, anyone?) and expects them all to behave like Princess. People who appreciate the laid-backness of NCL don't appreciate when someone comes in & criticizes (not because they didn't work...but because the poster didn't like them) the very things that NCL devotees enjoy (casual attire, dining flexibility, etc.)

[newt98]

oops

[ccrain]

I think ccrains latest review of the Dawn cruise is a perfect template for how to write a review and is the type of review that is the most helpful. No cruise is perfect and a balance of good and bad experiences are more helpful than the "I will never cruise this cruiseline again" reviews. ccrain, thanks for the fine review of the Dawn!

 

Dan

 

I try and provide a balanced perspective on a cruise. There are always the little things and as long as they stay little, its no problem to us.

 

The most valuable thing I find on these boards are the little tidbits of information that really help improve the cruise experience: a power strip, water shoes, water wallets, hidden decks on the Coral class, balcony coverages, avoiding the quad cabins on the sun...the list is endless.

 

Free and uninhibited exchange of information...it simply can't be beat...

[sjbdtz]

You are one of the three she is talking about. almost all posts from you are argumentative and/or criticizing someone. find something to be happy about in life, and that may change. you must be a dreadful person to live with.:(

 

You're joking, right?

 

90% of the things I post are humourous, not argumentative or critical.

 

 

I go through life with a smile on my face. I have great friends, a 14 year relationship, fantastic family, and more material means, than I require.

 

You must be confusing me with someone else.

[newt98]

i think i was, that's why i deleted it, sorry. don't mean to act like a newbie!:)

[sjbdtz]

If your friends state they had a bad day, do you respond by saying you didn't and they must be wrong!!!!

Janet

 

 

If some people didn't have an axe to grind, or if they weren't fishing for compensation, you'd probably find more people willing to accept the review for what it is.

 

When a review is posted saying "my steak tasted like leather, so BE WARNED", then it's the same as your friend saying they had a bad day, so you're going to have one too.

[sjbdtz]

i think i was, that's why i deleted it, sorry. don't mean to act like a newbie!:)

 

 

Nah...you didn't use any of the newbie keywords... ;)

 

THAT would have been a disaster!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[bunduo]

One of the worst things with first-time posters is the use of terms such as:

 

theft

underhanded

fraud

deceit

lying

disaster

ruined

 

,....and so on.

 

Some posters know exactly what these terms mean. The cheerleaders that act like a cruiseline would never lie, cheat, or steal are naive. Anytime there is a profit motive, these terms will come into play. Just because someone hasn't posted a thousand times doesn't mean they were born yesterday.

 

Do they come into play often? No, for the most part the cruiselines strive to do what's right but when the dollar amount starts to climb and and potential lawsuits are threatened, all of a sudden people start to 'forget', stories change, verbal directions are given to employees on what to say and what not to say. It's sad but true.

[wizard-of-roz]

Geeeez, newt: How mean spirited was that?

Talk about lightening up! Now we're telling people, "they must be miserable to live with!" Wow!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry sjbdtz...that was hurtful....I'm sure you're a lovely person 90% of the time and only an SOB 10% of the time.

Can you only come on board when in your in your 90 percentile? :o

[sjbdtz]

Geeeez, newt: How mean spirited was that?

 

Talk about lightening up! Now we're telling people, "they must be miserable to live with!" Wow!!!!!!!!

 

I'm sorry sjbdtz...that was hurtful....I'm sure you're a lovely person 90% of the time and only an SOB 10% of the time.

 

Can you only come on board when in your in your 90 percentile? :o

 

 

LOL. I'll make an effort. :cool:

[flynrph]

....I'm sure you're a lovely person 90% of the time and only an SOB 10% of the time.

 

LMAO!

(So, is there room for improvement? If, so, which side? :rolleyes: )