Passport Clarification Needed..

[ms simba]

How long is a Passport good for? Life? or shorter?

[cherylandtk]

10 years in the US for an adult--which may or may not be "life" depending....

[TwitterCruise1]

If anyone can weigh in on this I would appreciate it.

We (4 friends) are traveling on the May 26-30th sailing on the Monarch of the Seas..RCCL-it does go to mexico and 2 of us don't have passports but do have birth certificates. Will that be enough? I'm so confused by all the rules changing... I know they can still apply for it, but just curious. Thanks!

[prwjr]

If anyone can weigh in on this I would appreciate it.

We (4 friends) are traveling on the May 26-30th sailing on the Monarch of the Seas..RCCL-it does go to mexico and 2 of us don't have passports but do have birth certificates. Will that be enough? I'm so confused by all the rules changing... I know they can still apply for it, but just curious. Thanks!

 

Personally, I have a Passport...so I am not in your party's dilemma and therefore don't have the worries that your companion travelers may have.

 

I would check with RCCL, the US Dep't of State, US Dep't of Homeland Security, and US Customs and Border Protection websites to get the correct answer.

 

Don't rely on the advice of someone that posts in a travel forum to assure that your trip will happen with the proper ID required.

 

That's the best advice that I can give to anyone aside from...anyone in your party that doesn't have a US Passport...has time to obtain one before your trip.

 

Do yourself a favor...and make the Passport happen...unless this is the last trip that any one in your party plans to take.

 

Paul from NJ

[cherylandtk]

I can make it a little easier for you Weatherman; here is the DHS site on the matter (CPB is part of DHS). State Dept. defers to DHS for the regulations.

http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders

 

Having a passport is wise and useful in an emergency, but for your cruise, your friends will be fine to cruise with a certified BC and state DL. Please ensure that they are using certified BC's, not hospital-issued certificates.

[prwjr]

I can make it a little easier for you Weatherman; here is the DHS site on the matter (CPB is part of DHS). State Dept. defers to DHS for the regulations.

http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders

 

Having a passport is wise and useful in an emergency, but for your cruise, your friends will be fine to cruise with a certified BC and state DL. Please ensure that they are using certified BC's, not hospital-issued certificates.

 

Hi Cheryl,

 

I hope that you don't think that I was trying to 'dis' you by what I said on not relying on info. provided by posters in a travel forum. You are certainly most helpful and well versed in documentation requirements to travel outside and return to the US. My point was that proper travel documentation is the responsibility of the traveler and each traveler should check with the proper authority to ensure that they have the proper documentation well before the scheduled date of travel.

 

I enjoy reading and learning from your posts of informative information for unwary travelers, particularly since the 'rules of travel documents required' seem to change rather frequently...depending upon which Government website you go to.

 

As always a pleasure...

 

Paul from NJ

[cherylandtk]

Paul,

Oh no, I did not take it that way at all....:). I just was trying to help out the Weatherman by pointing him(?) to the DHS site, so at least he could have the correct site to reference...you understand I am sure, because so many people mean well by referencing the State Dept site. And that gets you into the aforementioned mess of the full rules vs. summarized rules.

 

I am afraid the upcoming REAL ID issues could be the source of many more confused travellers, for just the exact reasons you stated.

 

Cheryl

[prwjr]

Paul,

Oh no, I did not take it that way at all....:). I just was trying to help out the Weatherman by pointing him(?) to the DHS site, so at least he could have the correct site to reference...you understand I am sure, because so many people mean well by referencing the State Dept site. And that gets you into the aforementioned mess of the full rules vs. summarized rules.

 

I am afraid the upcoming REAL ID issues could be the source of many more confused travellers, for just the exact reasons you stated.

 

Cheryl

 

Hey Cheryl,

 

It is very confusing wandering through the rules and regulations of required travel documents. You have done well in trying to advise the traveling public with travel ID requirements.

 

I think that the 'Real ID' issues will be less of a problem once you have obtained a passport and therefore you and I continue to maintain that having a US Passport will ensure a 'smooth ride' through the documentation verification process...no matter where you are traveling to or from. Interestingly enough, despite the new electronic passport, which I have, I have yet to see an airport equipped with the technology to process the passport as such. Those airports include Newark, NJ, Jacksonville, FL, Miami, Fl, & Norfolk, VA.

 

Apparently slow work takes time!!!

 

Thank you for your input and help for travellers. I appreciate reading any of your posts.

 

Have a GREAT day,

 

Paul from NJ

[cherylandtk]

I think that the 'Real ID' issues will be less of a problem once you have obtained a passport and therefore you and I continue to maintain that having a US Passport will ensure a 'smooth ride' through the documentation verification process...no matter where you are traveling to or from....Paul from NJ

I certainly agree with you here; there may come a time this year (could be May) that some state's DL will NOT be accepted as a 'government issued picture ID'. So instead of saying "BC/DL" I will have to add an asterisk that says something like "unless you come from one of the 17 states not complying with the REAL ID act and then you need another picture ID, such as a federally issued ID card. Or a passcard or passport."

 

It was bothersome enough to have to continually remind everyone that a BC is a certified government-issued document and not a hospital issued copy. And STILL we have folks showing up at the pier with the hospital footprints and pink or blue ribbons....now having to do something similar with the DL for certain states will be a madhouse.

 

Which (hopefully?) will be cause enough for more folks to just get a passport; and be done with the worry, confusion and keeping track of such changes. :D

[prwjr]

I certainly agree with you here; there may come a time this year (could be May) that some state's DL will NOT be accepted as a 'government issued picture ID'. So instead of saying "BC/DL" I will have to add an asterisk that says something like "unless you come from one of the 17 states not complying with the REAL ID act and then you need another picture ID, such as a federally issued ID card. Or a passcard or passport."

 

Hey Cheryl,

 

I certainly agree with the efforts to maintain national security by traveling citizens having proper ID. Since I live in NJ and recently obtained a 'digital' DL, I am still concerned with whether or not this recently obtained DL will be compliant with an 'Enhanced DL' or 'Real ID' requirements, if and when these regulations are implemented.

 

Obtaining a 'Passcard', although being less expensive than a US Passport Book, makes little sense to me since it is only good for "travel by land and sea between the US and Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean, only". If your gonna spend the money and effort to get a 'Passcard' just spend the extra money and get the Passport Book. Passcards will not be available to be mailed to a recepient until Spring 2008...you would receive a Passport Book in less time.

 

I am not a wealthy person...and I understand that the majority of the travelling public is not wealthy either. It just makes sense to me that if you were to get ill in Bermuda, e.g. and had to return to the US by air and did not have a Passport Book, that your return to the US could be significantly delayed in order to verify your citizenship.

 

Thank you Cheryl for your continued advice and updates for the travelling public.

 

Paul

[blkspy]

Hey Cheryl,

 

I certainly agree with the efforts to maintain national security by traveling citizens having proper ID. Since I live in NJ and recently obtained a 'digital' DL, I am still concerned with whether or not this recently obtained DL will be compliant with an 'Enhanced DL' or 'Real ID' requirements, if and when these regulations are implemented.

 

Obtaining a 'Passcard', although being less expensive than a US Passport Book, makes little sense to me since it is only good for "travel by land and sea between the US and Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean, only". If your gonna spend the money and effort to get a 'Passcard' just spend the extra money and get the Passport Book. Passcards will not be available to be mailed to a recepient until Spring 2008...you would receive a Passport Book in less time.

 

I am not a wealthy person...and I understand that the majority of the travelling public is not wealthy either. It just makes sense to me that if you were to get ill in Bermuda, e.g. and had to return to the US by air and did not have a Passport Book, that your return to the US could be significantly delayed in order to verify your citizenship.

 

Thank you Cheryl for your continued advice and updates for the travelling public.

 

Paul

just my thoughts....big brother is watching....pass ports will be a must for ALL forms of travel---JUST NOT YET!!! follow the rules as they are 'NOW'....and you need not worry about getting stuck in a 'THIRD WORLD COUNTRY LIKE BERMUDA', if you get ill. if you have cruise or travel plans---just follow the rules as they are 'NOW'. and enjoy yourself....ANYONE ELSE AGREE? OR AM I ALONE???

[prwjr]

just my thoughts....big brother is watching....pass ports will be a must for ALL forms of travel---JUST NOT YET!!! follow the rules as they are 'NOW'....and you need not worry about getting stuck in a 'THIRD WORLD COUNTRY LIKE BERMUDA', if you get ill. if you have cruise or travel plans---just follow the rules as they are 'NOW'. and enjoy yourself....ANYONE ELSE AGREE? OR AM I ALONE???

 

Well I agree with having a Passport Book to travel and eventually it will be a necessity. The rules 'now' don't require a passport but I felt it made more sense to get it sooner rather than later since the cost has recently gone up and surely will again in the future as well as the time it takes to obtain one when crunch time comes.

 

'Big Brother' should be watching out for criminals and terrorists and the law abiding traveling public should be glad that 'Big Brother' is out there watching.

[tekjr1]

Actually, the information I received from Carnival for our April '08 cruise is that the push back of the date that cruise passengers will need a passport is due to the fact that the government is planning to issue a smaller Pass Port type card and the cost will be significately less - approximately $50 per card.

 

I am waiting for that to be implemented before I spend $400 on passports for a family of 4.

 

This is the statement from Carnival in my documents:

 

The U.S. Government will require that all of our guests, including U.S. Citizens be in possession of a valid passport when traveling on any Carnival Cruise. This requirement will become effective no later than June 1, 2009. This effective date may be moved to an earlier date pending the U.S. Government's implementation of new identification cards (PASScards) that will provide a less expensive alternative form of documentation. For travel by air, the passport deadline will remain January 8, 2007.

 

Greetings,

 

I make my living as a U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agent (CBP).

 

The passport cards are coming and they will give you return access to the US only. If you travel outside the US, GET A PASSPORT! I can't stress the importance of this single document enough. It is the only proper form of ID when traveling abroad. The US is making it tougher on any non US citizen to enter the US and in return these countries are doing the same. In the near future, long time neighbors like Canada and the Bahamas will also be asking for passports. Trust me on this. 100.00 spent on this document is the best insurance policy you will ever buy if you are in a foreign country and need it. Please don't take a chance, acceptance of birth certificates and dl's can go away in a flash.

[cherylandtk]

Tekjr--

Thanks so much for chiming in on this thread..particularly since it is very hard to obtain accurate information on the document requirements of other countries, particularly for cruise passengers. Their websites often list the 'general' requirement, but fail to mention the various cruise or 24 hr stay requirements.

 

You mentioned that Bahamas and Canada will start requiring passports soon; which to me says that they will no longer accept the BC/DL or the new passcard from cruise passengers. Is this what you were saying? If so, could you please provide a little more background for us, including expected implementation? I am not challenging your knowledge, or disagreeing with your recommendation, I am just trying to gain more understanding of the various country requirements. Thank you :).

[tekjr1]

Tekjr--

Thanks so much for chiming in on this thread..particularly since it is very hard to obtain accurate information on the document requirements of other countries, particularly for cruise passengers. Their websites often list the 'general' requirement, but fail to mention the various cruise or 24 hr stay requirements.

 

You mentioned that Bahamas and Canada will start requiring passports soon; which to me says that they will no longer accept the BC/DL or the new passcard from cruise passengers. Is this what you were saying? If so, could you please provide a little more background for us, including expected implementation? I am not challenging your knowledge, or disagreeing with your recommendation, I am just trying to gain more understanding of the various country requirements. Thank you :).

 

At the risk of sounding like a typical government employee, I will tell you we are not sure when a lot of this will take place. Please don't assume the the Canada or Bahamas requirement is immediately imminent. It is not. I'm just basing that on the fact that we usually have a reciprocity type of agreement between the countries on immigration policies. Therefore, if we are requiring a passport for Canadians they will probabaly follow suit. The number of countries that allow you to enter with a bc/dl are becoming fewer.

 

There are still lots of issues surrounding the new passport cards. At this time there are "rumors" that they may be accepted in Canada. Nothing official. Most of the agents I work with feel that a U.S. Passport is the best thing to have. Each of my family members (wife and 2 sons) have one for our upcoming trip to Alaska (via Vancouver).

 

Pleae feel free to inquire and I will always try to help. I draw the line after I get on the ship....bad experience once when a passenger found out I worked for CBP. I don't make the rules.....

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

[cherylandtk]

Tom,

Thanks for the reply..and I agree with you that the passport is the only way to go. Am on my fourth renewal myself. :)

 

I understand what you are saying in the first paragraph, and trying to read between the lines of official government documents is...well, trying, to say the least. You might be interested in this page from Canada's perspective, last updated in Oct. 2007, which essentially says they are currently leaning towards preferring and accepting the handy-dandy cards, such as the current NEXUS and CanPass, as well as future US Passards and EDL's from both sides of the border.

 

http://geo.international.gc.ca/can-am/main/right_nav/comment_08_29-en.asp

 

This is not to negate knowing things can change. I do think it helpful to people on this board to list both the reasons why a passport is preferred, as well as the current regulations and proposed changes, just so they can make up their own minds for their own situation. This means knowing the risks and benefits of all options.

 

I would be most interested to hear your ongoing thoughts as changes occur, and the REAL ID comes into play. Getting the information from one 'in the trenches' will be a real asset to this thread. Along those lines, do you have anything you wish to add regarding the REAL ID act; has that hit the radar of your day-to-day work yet?

[tekjr1]

Tom,

Thanks for the reply..and I agree with you that the passport is the only way to go. Am on my fourth renewal myself. :)

 

I would be most interested to hear your ongoing thoughts as changes occur, and the REAL ID comes into play. Getting the information from one 'in the trenches' will be a real asset to this thread. Along those lines, do you have anything you wish to add regarding the REAL ID act; has that hit the radar of your day-to-day work yet?

 

I think the first real good test is going to be when Washington gets the EDL's going. Unfortunately I won't see them too often since I live and work in Ft Myers, Florida. Even though I have offered my "professional" opinion on passports, there are others within my agency that are much more versed in the field. Don't get me wrong, I deal with people entering the country every day, however the ones I come into contact with are usually smuggling something and trying to enter in an illegal manner. A lot of private vessel cruisers are looking forward to the card and there is discussion about being able to use it to enter the Bahamas and Canada for now.

 

We're not too involved with REAL ID Act stuff where I am. I don't think it is even going to be enforced until March of 2009. TSA will be more involved in checking compliant dl's probabaly. As I mentioned before, I don't really clear cars coming across the border or cruise ship passengers.

 

It will be real interesting.

 

Hope some of this helps. I am much more of an expert on drug smuggling via vessel.

[cherylandtk]

Tom, LOL--I kinda figured you did not deal with too many land border crossings down there in Florida, but I was thinking you might have dealt with some cruise ships. I don't see that we will have any need for 'drug smuggling via vessel' information on this board :p, but I still appreciate your other knowledge and insights, as I am sure others do, too.

 

Darn, I was hoping to get your viewpoint and perspective on the use of expired passports as well as the specific occasions when a marriage license is or is not needed. (Both being recurrent questions that show up on these boards on a regular basis). Oh well, if you happen to know anyone else in your agency who deals with those issues on a regular basis and would be willing to answer a few of those questions, do let me know...and last but certainly not least, thank you for what you do on a daily basis to keep the rest of us safe.

[tekjr1]

Tom,

 

Darn, I was hoping to get your viewpoint and perspective on the use of expired passports as well as the specific occasions when a marriage license is or is not needed. (Both being recurrent questions that show up on these boards on a regular basis). Oh well, if you happen to know anyone else in your agency who deals with those issues on a regular basis and would be willing to answer a few of those questions, do let me know...and last but certainly not least, thank you for what you do on a daily basis to keep the rest of us safe.

 

My pleasure. I take a lot of pride in my occupation. I just don't mention it anymore while I'm on a cruise since it tends to get people to share their personal CBP experiences with me. Some of them are frequently not good ones. My office is located at the international airport in Ft Myers. I deal with the inspectors every day. They constantly clear flights. I will certainly ask them about the need for a marriage license. I'm guessing this pertains to recently married whose maiden names are still on passport? Also, please let me know what you would like to know about expired passports. Are we talking about the 6 month issue? I will tell you that upon re-entering the country, the inspector has a certain degree of discretion they can exercise in dealing with these issues.

 

Regards,

[cherylandtk]

Tom,

 

Thanks! Sorry :( this will be so long-winded, but there are some details I want to make sure I address:

 

The questions are more cruise-specific, so your co-workers at the airport may not know..But here goes: Since the BC/DL combo is acceptable at this point for most of those Florida cruises, and many cruisers still use those docs, some folks on this board swear up and down that a married woman needs to have her name change from the BC shown via marriage license. Most women, however, swear up and down they don't.

 

When applying for a passport, a married woman does not need to send in the marriage license (presumably since she appears in person and has a legal ID--DL--in her married name, which also presumably needed the marriage license to obtain at some point in the past when she went from maiden name to married name.) Marriage license is not even on the passport application form, just a place to enter previously used names, including maiden.

 

BUT to change a passport (and theoretically a DL or SS card or any other official document) one does need the ML to change the name, that is not in question.

 

The odd wrinkle in this is that I have heard, but cannot locate officially, that if the threat level goes up (Orange? Red? I am not sure which) then the BC/DL travellers need to prove that sort of name change at the port...which might be why there are the odd few posters who swear up and down they were told "Good thing you had this or I could not have let you on the ship".

 

I guess what I am looking for is clarification as to whether this is an actual requirement of the USA, or if this is urban myth promulgated by a)ancient history and how things were done 10 years ago and/or b) mis-informed part-time check-in clerks (who simply hand off passengers with uncertain docs to CPB for clarification). One hears stories of "and then the poor woman was sent crying to the Immigration office and I never saw them on the ship" with the implication that they were denied boarding, when in fact, they may have just been processed through secondary screening.

 

The next one might be easier, or at least shorter :D:

 

In the past, one could use an expired passport (issued less than 15 years ago, I think) as proof of citizenship. Had to have a current ID card, however. One can still use that expired passport to obtain a renewal passport by mail, but my question is whether that expired passport is still useful as a citizenship document for other purposes? A recently expired passport is not listed in the CBP website as an acceptable citizenship document under the list but I have heard that in some cases an expired passport would be preferable to a birth certificate to some agents. So my question here is just how useful is a recently expired passport? Does it help to bring it along if a pax happens to have one? Does it prove anything by itself? If travelling on a BC/DL, does an expired passport help in some way? Or is it essentially an outdated document?

 

Going on the "certain degree of discretion" comment, I am thinking that an expired passport might be a useful document to pack, particularly for someone travelling with a BC/DL.

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to ponder these questions with your co-workers.

[prwjr]

Tom,

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to ponder these questions with your co-workers.

 

Wow! Cheryl,

 

You are certainly putting a lot of thought into your questions and concerns...for the welfare of the traveling public.

 

I think that it would be difficult for Tom to answer your questions with any sort of certainty or reliability, which having said that, I intend no disrespect to Tom, you, or anyone. I think that you are asking questions in which you, or the individual traveler, would receive an answer that is discretionary on the part of the particular agent with whom the individual traveler is faced with at the time.

 

I also think that the answers to your questions are more of a legal matter, and that the answers to, should be available as a public record, available for all to see. So to publish the opinion of one individual working for a governmental agency would be a disservice to the traveling public.

 

I just returned from my County Courthouse and my local IRS office concerning an IRS issue. I can tell you that the Federal Government offices, especially the IRS, are not on the same page...the personnel 'pass the buck'.

 

You are correct in saying that to change a SS Card, that you need to provide a Marriage Document, Divorce Decree, et. al. Those 'new' requirements are available at: http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=315

 

I don't have an answer to your questions...other than that you, Tom and I agree...that having a US Passport BOOK, is the only way to travel.

 

Thanks again for your concern and advice for the traveling public.

 

Paul from NJ

[tekjr1]

Tom,

 

Thanks! Sorry :( this will be so long-winded, but there are some details I want to make sure I address:

 

The questions are more cruise-specific, so your co-workers at the airport may not know..But here goes: Since the BC/DL combo is acceptable at this point for most of those Florida cruises, and many cruisers still use those docs, some folks on this board swear up and down that a married woman needs to have her name change from the BC shown via marriage license. Most women, however, swear up and down they don't.

 

 

The odd wrinkle in this is that I have heard, but cannot locate officially, that if the threat level goes up (Orange? Red? I am not sure which) then the BC/DL travellers need to prove that sort of name change at the port...which might be why there are the odd few posters who swear up and down they were told "Good thing you had this or I could not have let you on the ship".

 

I guess what I am looking for is clarification as to whether this is an actual requirement of the USA, or if this is urban myth promulgated by a)ancient history and how things were done 10 years ago and/or b) mis-informed part-time check-in clerks (who simply hand off passengers with uncertain docs to CPB for clarification). One hears stories of "and then the poor woman was sent crying to the Immigration office and I never saw them on the ship" with the implication that they were denied boarding, when in fact, they may have just been processed through secondary screening.

 

The next one might be easier, or at least shorter :D:

 

In the past, one could use an expired passport (issued less than 15 years ago, I think) as proof of citizenship. Had to have a current ID card, however. One can still use that expired passport to obtain a renewal passport by mail, but my question is whether that expired passport is still useful as a citizenship document for other purposes? A recently expired passport is not listed in the CBP website as an acceptable citizenship document under the list but I have heard that in some cases an expired passport would be preferable to a birth certificate to some agents. So my question here is just how useful is a recently expired passport? Does it help to bring it along if a pax happens to have one? Does it prove anything by itself? If travelling on a BC/DL, does an expired passport help in some way? Or is it essentially an outdated document?

 

Going on the "certain degree of discretion" comment, I am thinking that an expired passport might be a useful document to pack, particularly for someone travelling with a BC/DL.

 

Sorry I did not get back last night. Out again all night on the water. Had to deal with a gentleman that was attempting to bring things into the US that are not allowed.

 

On the BC/DL/Marriage License issue I will do some digging with the Port Director and hopefully come up with an answer. This gentleman worked the Canadian land border for a long time.

 

On the expired Passport question: As I mentioned before, the CBP Agent at the border has a lot of discretion. I have accepted expired passports from persons arriving on private yachts from foreign countries. Like you said if the are recent and they have another form of id, I usually clear them with a warning to renew. The document is not listed on the CBP approved list, but even expired is still a proof of US Citizenship. I will check on this also.

[cherylandtk]

Tom,

Thank you...re: expired passports; and while obviously a current passport is much more useful, it is good to know that having an expired passport still might have some utility. For cruisers, there is still the difficulty of passing muster by the check-in clerks, who don't have much leeway in their list of acceptable documents, and rightfully so.

 

Paul's concerns notwithstanding, I think that the more we all know about discretionary leeway vs. written policy or regulation, and just as important--which is which, the better. Of course, as with many rules, policies and regulations, much of it can be a moving target.

 

Now, hope you can catch some shut-eye today. ;)

[tekjr1]

Cheryl,

 

Sorry, still have not been into the office (airport) since the last couple of very busy days. I will post someting as soon as I get a chance to get some answers.

 

Tom

[vowsatsea]

I finally decided to pull the plug and get my husband and I our passports. I applied at the post office on February 6th, and they arrived in the mail on February 20th. Never in a million years did I think they would come that fast, and we didn't even pay for expedited service.