the one thing I might never understand....

[carontori]

The whole CLUB thing is not serious. For pete's sake...(not as in MR. Pete)...why are you taking this so seriously?

 

People are completely free to review their cruise and I certainly want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. My original point was that I personally don't understand why someone would allow something SMALL to ruin their vacation. Some people board the ship looking for problems. One poster said that she began to keep a list of her complaints on day 2. If you focus on the bad, you will see only bad. You miss a lot of the good stuff.

 

It's not that different than anything in life. Consider this: When you work in an office you are interacting with different people. Some will say it's a great place to work and some will say it is workplace hell there. Each opinion is valid- right? And you begin to notice that the happy workers hang out together and the miserable workers congregate and share job leads. After a while the negative people will have the problems built up in their minds to the point that they can barely stand being there anymore.

 

The postive people are aware of the problems in the workplace, but they are not going to focus on them exclusively.

 

And if you can't guess this....I just described my own workplace. I refuse to join the complainers for lunch.

 

I couldn't have said it better Jen!! Point well taken.

[Retired not Expired]

I'm sorry that you have an issue with me. I see you admonishing people all over the boards for things that you don't agree with, and some people might think those things are minor as well. My big beef is people who INSULT others to make their point, or to express how 'bad' something is, or for any other reason at all. I see no need for it. As I was trying to explain in my 'rant', just because you don't think something is offensive doesn't make it so. I'm human and I've certainly said things that I didn't intend to be negative but were interpreted as such, and when those things are brought to my attention, I do my best to explain my intentions and express that no offense was intended. The sheer pride I've seen on this board from people who realize they've offended people is quite sad, in my opinion.

Would you please show me these examples from all over the boards where I am admonishing people? And remember, you said all over the boards. I debate people all the time. Maybe you see that as admonishing, just like I see you saying people are complaining about the surcharges where I say they are offering an opinion. If you would take the time to do some research, you will find many of these you have taken to task are saying the same thing on several boards, both freestyle and traditional. They just don‘t like to see so many things that use to be included now being a surcharge.

 

Yes, I will admit I have an issue with you taking someone to task as hard as you did for something so trivial. It is a statement that has been used many times on many boards to describe the lowering of standards by the cruise lines. I don‘t take it personally as most just mean the cruise experience is not what it use to be.

 

I will ask you this. What is the difference of people who complain about a cruise or those who complain about a complainer? Both are complaining, just about different things

 

Open debate is a good thing. Trying to stifle one side is nothing more than censorship. I love NCL but I want to hear what all others have to say. People are intelligent enough to know what is a rant and what is an honest opinion..

[cruizinwithkids]

I agree. I wish the price of the cruise included all that it used to, and stop nickel & diming me. I dislike that. Evidently some people don't mind paying extra for every little thing, but I'd rather have it included in the cruise fare, like it used to be.

 

I'm wondering as I read this, how cruise lines could accomplish this. All of a sudden one of the "mass" cruise lines would have to start advertising, We may be 50% (or whatever) more but our drink costs are less. Or soda is included or ...We also promise that the bar servers will know you don't drink, so won't be trying to make tip money by bothering you.

 

I don't know but I am wondering how do the prices on the luxury lines compare in today's dollar with the price of the "mass market" of 20 years ago? I know I pay about the same for a balcony today than I did for an inside 20 years ago. I also know my house is worth about 3 times what it was 20 years ago.

[CanadianTwosome]

Maybe when you come out of the groove that some of us, or at least I, are not just talking about NCL, you'll begin to understand.

 

I can attest most of my words in this thread discuss mass cruise lines, and NOT NCL.

 

And BTW, what is "here"? There's more than access to "here" than through the NCL board. I choose where I visit under NEW POSTS. Sometimes, I find myself on boards that have nothing to do with cruising, but I'm intrigued by the topic.

 

Thank you for clearing that up for me. This is the first answer I've ever seen (and I've seen the same basic question asked by others) that actually answers the question!!! :) It definitely makes a LOT more sense now, although I do think there are some people that make a point of specifically visiting the NCL boards (or others) with the intent of being negative. Obviously this is not you.

 

I apologize for misunderstanding that you aren't talking only about NCL. I think the reason I have thought that is because 1) I always see the posts here on the NCL board, and 2) NCL has more extra charges than other lines. My mistake. :)

[MrPete]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. This is the first answer I've ever seen (and I've seen the same basic question asked by others) that actually answers the question!!! :) It definitely makes a LOT more sense now.

 

I apologize for misunderstanding that you aren't talking only about NCL.

 

You mean you've been dragging this out all this time when I clearly said this in post 109? :eek: :rolleyes:

[CanadianTwosome]

Would you please show me these examples from all over the boards where I am admonishing people? And remember, you said all over the boards. I debate people all the time. Maybe you see that as admonishing, just like I see you saying people are complaining about the surcharges where I say they are offering an opinion. If you would take the time to do some research, you will find many of these you have taken to task are saying the same thing on several boards, both freestyle and traditional. They just don‘t like to see so many things that use to be included now being a surcharge.

 

Yes, I will admit I have an issue with you taking someone to task as hard as you did for something so trivial. It is a statement that has been used many times on many boards to describe the lowering of standards by the cruise lines. I don‘t take it personally as most just mean the cruise experience is not what it use to be.

 

I will ask you this. What is the difference of people who complain about a cruise or those who complain about a complainer? Both are complaining, just about different things

 

Open debate is a good thing. Trying to stifle one side is nothing more than censorship. I love NCL but I want to hear what all others have to say. People are intelligent enough to know what is a rant and what is an honest opinion..

 

I think the problem here is that what you see as 'trivial' I see as important. I think that every person is entitled to their opinion, and I have stated that time and time again. Whether the term 'dumb down' is used by one person or many, it is STILL a derogatory term, and again, just because YOU are not offended by it, that doesn't make it unoffensive to all. I think it's an insult and it suggests that anyone who LIKES things the way they are now is somehow less intelligent because of it. I see that as an insult and I don't think it's nice, nor appropriate. The cruise experience may not be what it used to be, but for some of us, that's not a bad thing - why does that make us 'dumb'?

 

You see your posts as 'debate'. Do you really want me to go find one I thought was admonishing? Can I just suggest you reread your most recent 'debate' with NealStuber? (I stand corrected, by the way, I have only seen your posts on THIS board, not 'all over' - I meant to say 'board' but added the 's' by accident) I have never told anyone that their opinion was not welcome, nor have I ever told anyone that they shouldn't be upset about extra charges or anything else. How we feel about things is personal. How we react to our feelings or express them is also personal. I think it is entirely possible for people to express themselves without insulting others in the process. I don't know why it is so wrong for me to feel this way.

 

I would also like to point out that I am NOT complaining about people complaining. I have a problem with people using derogatory or insulting language, whether they are complaining or anything else. Again... beating a dead horse. Am I so unclear in what I'm saying?

[CanadianTwosome]

You mean you've been dragging this out all this time when I clearly said this in post 109? :eek: :rolleyes:

 

I've long forgotten post 109, but my feelings about extra charges have nothing to do with what line we're talking about. The question you just answered regarding being here on the NCL boards is line specific, however. The only thing that got cleared up here was why you come to THIS board and talk about it. Knowing that it's not just about NCL and that you find your way here through the new posts rather than by intention explains that.

 

Our disagreement of opinion regarding the extra charges themselves remains unchanged, and that's okay, right? (and neither one of us is 'less intelligent' than the other because of our differing opinions :) )

[4cats4me]

I have a problem with people using derogatory or insulting language, whether they are complaining or anything else. Again... beating a dead horse. Am I so unclear in what I'm saying?

 

 

Dumb down is offensive but beating a dead horse is not? Beating any

animal is offensive, dead or alive!

[CanadianTwosome]

Dumb down is offensive but beating a dead horse is not? Beating any

animal is offensive, dead or alive!

 

Ha ha ha ha ha I apologize!! I must agree that the origins of that particular phrase are particularly gruesome and icky. I'll try to find some other way to express myself in the future!! :)

[JenDalessan]

But I LOVE that song!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWub6KtSR8M

 

Perhaps you ought to change your names to Mr.YouTube? ;)

[MrPete]

The only thing that got cleared up here was why you come to THIS board and talk about it. Knowing that it's not just about NCL and that you find your way here through the new posts rather than by intention explains that.

 

Our disagreement of opinion regarding the extra charges themselves remains unchanged, and that's okay, right? (and neither one of us is 'less intelligent' than the other because of our differing opinions :) )

 

Sorry, poster 223899, but no one needs to explain to anyone why they visit any board, or how they got there. I happen to be on this board more in presence because I'm researching a Bermuda Dawn cruise.

 

And with reading this last post, I see I've been wasting my time with you. I'm not sure what any of your points are.

[cruzerfornow]

This is a valid opinion, and one you are entitled to. Thank you for expressing it this time without throwing in an insult to the people who don't share it. :)

 

I would like to ask now, without any sort of negativity intended (and not just for Catnip), just because I don't understand it... why do people who dislike the NCL system (of surcharges for extras) so much continue to come here and complain about it? As I said, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I just don't understand why you don't find a different cruiseline that doesn't have so many charges you don't want.

 

I don't believe I said I cruise NCL.....and as a matter of fact I don't! :D

 

But I DO shop at Wal-Mart! :eek: LMAO!!!!

[Retired not Expired]

I think the problem here is that what you see as 'trivial' I see as important. I think that every person is entitled to their opinion, and I have stated that time and time again. Whether the term 'dumb down' is used by one person or many, it is STILL a derogatory term, and again, just because YOU are not offended by it, that doesn't make it unoffensive to all. I think it's an insult and it suggests that anyone who LIKES things the way they are now is somehow less intelligent because of it. I see that as an insult and I don't think it's nice, nor appropriate. The cruise experience may not be what it used to be, but for some of us, that's not a bad thing - why does that make us 'dumb'?

 

You see your posts as 'debate'. Do you really want me to go find one I thought was admonishing? Can I just suggest you reread your most recent 'debate' with NealStuber? (I stand corrected, by the way, I have only seen your posts on THIS board, not 'all over' - I meant to say 'board' but added the 's' by accident) I have never told anyone that their opinion was not welcome, nor have I ever told anyone that they shouldn't be upset about extra charges or anything else. How we feel about things is personal. How we react to our feelings or express them is also personal. I think it is entirely possible for people to express themselves without insulting others in the process. I don't know why it is so wrong for me to feel this way.

 

I would also like to point out that I am NOT complaining about people complaining. I have a problem with people using derogatory or insulting language, whether they are complaining or anything else. Again... beating a dead horse. Am I so unclear in what I'm saying?

I had a reply typed out, then came back here to see any updates. I went back and reread what I had wrote and figured it just wasn't worth it. Therefore, I will leave it with this.

 

Sometimes we see in others what we fail to see in ourselves.

[Catnip]

 

Yes, I will admit I have an issue with you taking someone to task as hard as you did for something so trivial. It is a statement that has been used many times on many boards to describe the lowering of standards by the cruise lines. I don‘t take it personally as most just mean the cruise experience is not what it use to be.

 

Exactly!!! It's a common enough phrase here on CC, which I have seen used many times for many years.

 

Kind of like "beating a dead horse". :rolleyes: And though I am a huge animal lover, I don't get my knickers in a twist over it.

[Catnip]

This is a valid opinion, and one you are entitled to. Thank you for expressing it this time without throwing in an insult to the people who don't share it. :)

 

I did not insult anyone. It is a common phrase that has been used here on these boards for years. Some people are hyper-sensitive about certain words or phrases and some people get "offended" very easily. My suggestion would be for them to lighten up, not tighten up! :) Not everything said is a personal attack on others.

I am certainly not offended by what anyone says on an anonymous board. Too many other things in life to worry about! ;)

[Stillfloatin']

I did not insult anyone. It is a common phrase that has been used here on these boards for years. Some people are hyper-sensitive about certain words or phrases and some people get "offended" very easily. My suggestion would be for them to lighten up, not tighten up! :) Not everything said is a personal attack on others.

I am certainly not offended by what anyone says on an anonymous board. Too many other things in life to worry about! ;)

 

Whoooooooooow there missy, now you're talking way too much common sense.

[Catnip]

Whoooooooooow there missy' date=' now you're talking [i']way[/i] too much common sense.

 

hehehehe......:D

[CanadianTwosome]

Sorry, poster 223899, but no one needs to explain to anyone why they visit any board, or how they got there. I happen to be on this board more in presence because I'm researching a Bermuda Dawn cruise.

 

And with reading this last post, I see I've been wasting my time with you. I'm not sure what any of your points are.

 

You're right. Nobody needs to explain why they post anywhere... but forums tend to be places where people come to ask questions, especially about things they don't understand. I am not the only person who has posed this particular question (why come to the NCL board if you dislike NCL), and you chose to answer it. I thanked you for doing so. I'm not sure why that means you've been 'wasting your time with me'?

 

I'm sorry you're confused about my points... are you referring to the post you're quoting, or the ones I repeat over and over? :p I'd be happy to try to explain them to you if you'd tell me where you need clarification. :)

[CanadianTwosome]

I did not insult anyone. It is a common phrase that has been used here on these boards for years. Some people are hyper-sensitive about certain words or phrases and some people get "offended" very easily. My suggestion would be for them to lighten up, not tighten up! :) Not everything said is a personal attack on others.

I am certainly not offended by what anyone says on an anonymous board. Too many other things in life to worry about! ;)

 

Okay, first off, I want to be very clear - I have never stated that YOU, or anyone else, insulted anyone. I said that I find the phrase 'dumb-down' insulting. You may not think it is, but I DO. Am I not entitled to my opinion? Also, just because other people do it, does that make it right, when someone has told you clearly that they find it offensive? I'm not suggesting that everyone should share my opinion on this, but I know some do because I've seen them say so in other posts. I think that most of the time when people say or do things that someone else finds offensive, they do so unintentionally. When I said 'I think this is insulting,' I did so in order to show that there are some people who think so. (I'm not so arrogant as to think I'm the only one that does anything, so I feel comfortable saying 'some' :).) I went on to explain why I felt that way. (I have also said pretty much the same thing to every poster I have seen using the term.)

 

There are many terms in circulation around the world that 'some' people find insulting or offensive. Does the fact that they are widely used make them okay? I think calling anyone 'dumb' is offensive. If you don't feel that way, that's fine, I just thought you'd want to know that something you said had been seen as insulting. Wouldn't you rather express yourself in a way that didn't offend anyone? It's not about being hypersensitive or taking things too seriously. It's about caring whether what you say or do hurts other people. I just always think that given the choice, people would prefer NOT to offend anyone... so I gave you (and anyone else who thinks 'dumb-down' is an acceptable phrase) that choice.

[CanadianTwosome]

I had a reply typed out, then came back here to see any updates. I went back and reread what I had wrote and figured it just wasn't worth it. Therefore, I will leave it with this.

 

Sometimes we see in others what we fail to see in ourselves.

 

How very true. :)

[nasvhillecruise]

When I pasted the "Sunshine Cruisers" into my signature, it wasn't to join a clique or try to have any conflict. I'm just the type that if something happens, I try to make the best of it. Usually, it's the "bad things" that happen that end up making the best stories (like getting lost on a trail in the Smokies on what should have been a 2-hour walk rather than the walk until 2 a.m. it ended up being). I can promise I wasn't happy at the time, but I also didn't let it ruin the rest of our time in the mountain. & man, did it make for a great story even 15 years later!

 

I can also COMPLETELY relate to the person that went without air conditioning for 2 days. I LOVE sleeping in a cold room all covered up & can't stand to be hot. That would be a challenge for me to keep a good attitude, I must admit. I'm sure there are other things that would make a cruise disappointing to me. I just don't think less than 5-star food or bad service are going to ruin it for me.

 

Earlier in this post, someone suggested that the Sunshine Cruisers was more for the "low maintenance" people, which I am. Some of my very best friends are "high maintenance," and we still get along great. It's just that our views on whether things are wonderful or terrible are just a little bit different.

 

So there's my 2-cents worth that nobody asked for!!!!

 

Debbie

[Retired not Expired]

How very true. :)

Yes, it is.

[halos]

But I LOVE that song!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWub6KtSR8M

 

LOL...are you the Youtube Derf??? :p

 

 

 

 

The people who look at the bright side of things are always gonna butt heads with the folks who don't.

This is life.

Personally, club or not, I like the little sunshine thing and I tend to gravitate towards the people who have this little thing in their sig or avatar to read their posts...just like there are some members whose posts I try to avoid, and some members whose posts I don't even see because I have them on ignore.

Let's face it people, you can't like everybody....We have different types of personalities on here. This isn't about the negatives that happen on a cruise because even us pollyanna types experience 'bad' things, we just react differently. We don't understand why some people get all hysterical and some people don't understand how we DON'T get hysterical.

I seriously think that the differences in our emotional brains are so monumental that we'll never understand each other.

I don't know if this is good or bad but bottom line is that it is what it is.

[friend of Eeyore]

I refuse to join the complainers for lunch.

Yes. That's exactly my viewpoint. We have a complainer in our group at lunch, and at one point I started "hiding out" in a different place, as did everyone else (but the complainer). After that, and a couple of pointed remarks, she got the idea. Many people don't get the point :rolleyes:. (And that's not directed at any one post, not the one above me, since I haven't even read the last page yet.) THAT (your quote above) is exactly how I see the Sunshine Cruisers.

[dabbercat]

.. actually Cdn2sum, people go to other threads/boards to read comments from posters who are experianced in those areas. So if you perchance see an unfamiliar poster in your area they may well have good intentions. Some read only, others post away, and then there's the posters who run off at the mouth.

Posters have varying posting behaviours and when one may look negative / complaining or / whinning (heaven forbid), it may not be the true persona of that poster, but rather a mannerism in which he or she posts in, and emotional quotients are never relevant on message boards.:rolleyes:

 

And Derf and Youtube are never said in the same sentance.:):) :)