So just how much cheaper is it, actually, to fly Southwest?

[nho9504]

I agree that FF programs are valuable and that the global alliances of the legacies make them much better than that provided by WN. The point is that these programs are pretty much all the same and don't really differentiate UA, AA, DL, and CO all that much in terms of business models.

 

I dont care about the business model - this is not a forum for B-Schools...

 

I care about HOW much benefits one can derive from FF programs - and as much as you dig up financial data (regarding the gain of LUV and the gain of AMR over a long period of time... more later on this.), you obviously have very little ACTUAL experiences regarding how FF programs work and the intricacies of them. First and the utmost, NOT all FF programs are created equal. Or, shall I say, not all miles worth the same - AA miles worth more than UA, UA worth more much more than CO, when NW & DL pretty much are "useless" in the sense the latter 2 virtually need twice as many miles to redeem a basic award, namely, the domestic 25K Saver awards - you will need extreme good luck to be able to redeem saver award with NW or DL - the standard 40K and more would be the norm...

 

The most valuable FF program, imo, is AS. Its easiness to redeem PREMIUM cabins awards on highly-sought after routes flew by superior partner airlines such as BA & QF, makes AS miles very desirable.

 

There are enough flyers out there who dont choose their flights solely based on prices, but for other intangibles, no less of such is how the FF program is worth. To illustrate, we had to fly to DTW last fall. We could fly either NW or DL for that particular trip but the easiness of inputting our AS FF numbers when making booking online with NW, versus last time we had to call DL, and still had to fight at the gate to get our AS numbers recorded on our PNRs meant we would fly NW, not DL. Please note that, we dont want either NW or DL miles, we credited the flights to our AS accounts, despite the actual flyings were done on NW or DL. See the difference?

 

There are many differences among programs that to certain degree, it does differentiate the airlines. Of course, if you dont have actual experiences but general perception based on books, you would not have a clue.

 

Regarding the stock performance - the most misleading thing in investment is the "long-term" performance... that is not going to help anyone who tries to buy the stock NOW. When I refer to LUV performance, I mean it should be a RISING stock with stellar gain if its business model is so invincible. In all reality, the glory days of WN is passe. The only thing WN has done that I admire, is its BOLD hedging strategy against oil price. They are willing to take the risk and shell out the costs, to hedge the fuel and the bets pay off, big time.

 

I would say, WN would be good to those who live in cities that are not a major hubs of legacies, who usually only fly short-haul to nearby cities in neighboring states, occasionally a Midcon/Transcon, hardly any international flights other than taking a cruise... Such passengers would be happy with WN for the price and convenience. They have no idea of the mainlines FF programs and never miss the benefits because they dont know about it anyway.

[KLLund]

I would say, WN would be good to those who live in cities that are not a major hubs of legacies, who usually only fly short-haul to nearby cities in neighboring states, occasionally a Midcon/Transcon, hardly any international flights other than taking a cruise... Such passengers would be happy with WN for the price and convenience. They have no idea of the mainlines FF programs and never miss the benefits because they dont know about it anyway.

 

Can you spell condescending ?

Some of us that more frequently fly the short hauls from a non major legacy hub actually like the FF that NW offers. This does not mean we are ignorant of the other airlines offerings. It merely means that NW fits our travel patterns.

[kelmac]

At the rate things are going, Southwest may be the only airline flying in six months. It wouldn't suprise me if the number of flights offered by most airlines is cut in half in the next six months. Lay-offs, increased fares, and the mothballing of fuel guzzling airplanes.

Americans have hit their fossil fuel "wall" -- reality check time!

 

Kel

[SelectSys]

quote=nho9504;14741263]I dont care about the business model - this is not a forum for B-Schools...

 

This is a travel forum and business models do effect travelers (i.e., you should care). Have you noticed all the threads regarding bankrupt carriers these days? Those holding worthless tickets and frequent flyer miles on bankrupt airlines are largely out of luck (unless they get a refund through CC company). "Me too" business models are going to be tough these days...

 

...you obviously have very little ACTUAL experiences regarding how FF programs work and the intricacies of them.

 

What gave you this impression? I have lifetime platinum status in AA's AAdvantage program. I have also have accumulated quite a bit of miles in DL's Skymiles program over the years but not quite enough to achieve lifetime status.

 

...DL pretty much are "useless" in the sense

 

I actually like DL's partnership with SQ. They have great deals for 60-65k miles to most of North Asia. I have also found SQ tickets easy to redeem. I also like the fact that DL is linked to AMEX membership rewards. I was sad when their direct VS relationship was severed (it may be still possible to work something through CO/Skyteam). One of the best pass deals I got was premium economy to the UK for 60k/person during summer.

 

...The most valuable FF program, imo, is AS. Its easiness to redeem PREMIUM cabins awards on highly-sought after routes flew by superior partner airlines such as BA & QF, makes AS miles very desirable.

 

AS is good if you live in ANC, SEA, or PDX - otherwise I would pick another carrier as most of your flights will be on another carrier. I prefer to fly most of the time on a carrier where I have direct status. This really helps the chance for free upgrades, enhanced seat assignment options, and early boarding in coach. Having status also helps when your aircraft is delayed/cancelled.

 

Realize that AS is known for having a differentiated business model (including many partnerships as opposed to being in an alliance) with very strong positions in selected markets as well as a near monopoly in Alaska.

 

There are enough flyers out there who dont choose their flights solely based on prices, but for other intangibles, no less of such is how the FF program is worth.

 

Of course - I had a project a while back in Daytona beach and I would generally fly AA to MCO rather than DL to DAB. It was a combo of price, miles, and status qualification that determined which airport I flew into. Driving the extra 60 or so miles from MCO was just part of the equation.

 

...

There are many differences among programs that to certain degree, it does differentiate the airlines. Of course, if you dont have actual experiences but general perception based on books, you would not have a clue.

 

My experience is that the switching costs associated with moving programs keeps people locked into an airline. Building status takes time for most people and they tend to stick with their current airline. The only time people I know tend to switch airlines (i.e., programs) is when they move to different cities with a different dominant carrier or their company mandates the use of a specific carrier. Bankruptcy will soon be a factor causing loyalty switches as more airlines hit Chapter 7.

 

...

Regarding the stock performance - the most misleading thing in investment is the "long-term" performance... that is not going to help anyone who tries to buy the stock NOW. When I refer to LUV performance, I mean it should be a RISING stock with stellar gain if its business model is so invincible.

 

I was only maing an apples to apples (i.e., US airline stocks) rather than giving investment advice. We all know that we are in an extremely difficult environment for airlines. In the last year:

LUV: -13%

AMR: -75%

CAL: -62%

UAUA: -77%

DAL: -70%

ALK: -35%

 

Note that the two airlines with the most differentiated business models performed best in the last year. Congrats to AS for only shedding 35% of its value. All the traditional network legacies fared much worse. Even the industry darling CO is down 62%.

 

Such passengers would be happy with WN for the price and convenience. They have no idea of the mainlines FF programs and never miss the benefits because they dont know about it anyway.

 

Wow, that is quite a statement assuming that WN fliers ignorant, unaware, and uniformed of other frequent flyer programs.

[nho9504]

quote=nho9504;14741263]I dont care about the business model - this is not a forum for B-Schools...

 

This is a travel forum and business models do effect travelers (i.e., you should care). Have you noticed all the threads regarding bankrupt carriers these days? Those holding worthless tickets and frequent flyer miles on bankrupt airlines are largely out of luck (unless they get a refund through CC company). "Me too" business models are going to be tough these days...

 

What gave you this impression? I have lifetime platinum status in AA's AAdvantage program. I have also have accumulated quite a bit of miles in DL's Skymiles program over the years but not quite enough to achieve lifetime status.

 

.

 

Because you do not sound like you are knowledgeable about such programs. The way you talk about airline bankruptcies and how the tickets and FF programs become worthless, show it to me, you have NO knowledge.

 

ALL the legacies, except AA, have filed bankruptcies, one more than a few times (CO came to mind). At NO TIME the ticketholders and their FF programs have been jeoperdize - even when America West merged with US Air, the 2 bankrupted airlines merged, and then emerged - the ticketholders and the FFlyers of US Air have not lost anything.

 

FWIW, when UA was still in bankruptcy, we redeemed our UA miles for 2 business tickets to New Zealand and Australia, flying UA F to LAX, as well as UA F from SFO, between our home city and the gateway cities, flying Air NZ on all the international segments. That has been by far our most enjoyable flights - Air NZ that is. Its business class seats are licensed from Virgin Atlantic, and imo, the best type currently in the sky, BETTER than even CX & BA.

 

Those who lost when airlines filed bankruptcies, were holding tickets from smallish, regional airlines - not the legacies airlines, AA UA DL NW CO that we talk about here. I dont even know airlines such as Frontier, has what kind of FF program that is worth mentioning. You are compare apple with orange and generalize the whole industry into just 2 camps - one side is WN and the rest are others. Such opinions certainly do not sound like coming from an AA PLT. LOL.

 

I am at a loss that you being a lifetime AA PLT, why would you advocate flying WN - for the perks of PLT on AA is quite good - why would you fly WN when AA PLT gives 100% bonus on redeemable miles when flying AA? and AA miles, in my mind, is only second to AS miles, when it comes to redeem award seats, particularly in premium cabins. If you only redeem for Coach cabin, the availability on AA is very very good. On our recent trip from BCN back to US, coach cabin was wide-opened, on a new route BCN/JFK - every single day of Apr/May had availability. However, the Business class had 0. We had to route thru ZRH in order to fly Business. Incidentally, that gave us an excuse to make a stopover at ZRH for a week in Switzerland.

 

PLTs get to choose exit row seats, priority on upgrade request, dedicated telephone number and service desk, priority boarding, 100% bonus on redeemable miles, waiver of many fees.... The perks ease lots of pains and nuiances when you are no status... With such advantages, why would you prefer WN?!

 

I am pretty happy with AA, their new $15 per bag and raising lots of other fees notwithstanding. This morning I called AAdvantage to change our 2nd half of the recent award trip - the first half was already flown, BCN/MAD/ZRH, ZRH/JFK/MIA - I needed to change the date on the 2nd half, because we changed our plan on our Westbound TransAtlantic. Instead of taking X Constellation, we would take Emerald Princess instead. I checked the availability on QF site, called AAdvantage, took care of it in 15 minutes. AFAIK, and I guess you being PLT of AA, you know too, that AA is the only one allowing you to change date (and routing, for a fee) on award tickets that travel already started. Of course, being PLT, the fee to change routing does not apply. So, what not to like about AA?

 

AS is a catch-all basket for us - all the occasional, strayed flights on NW, DL, got dumped to AS basket. I admit I am mileage-hog and hate to see any miles being wasted. Instead of having orphaned miles on DL or NW, I would rather gather them all into AS program. As of now, the bal has grown to 70K, which of course is still peanuts when comparing to the bal in AA account. 120K AS gets you to Australia on QF J seat... 5K less than AA wants, and much easier to get seats. A friend also reported he got BA F to Europe and Australia easily with AS miles, but much harder with AA miles... FYI.

[nho9504]

Can you spell condescending ?

Some of us that more frequently fly the short hauls from a non major legacy hub actually like the FF that NW offers. This does not mean we are ignorant of the other airlines offerings. It merely means that NW fits our travel patterns.

 

I talk about WN, not NW.

 

WN is the code for Southwest, NW is the code for Northwest. One is so-called low-cost carrier and presumably is run brilliantly. The other is one of the legacy airlines that go into brankruptcy. I dont know if NW has emerged from bankruptcy or not, I do know NW frequent flyers complain a lot about how there are 0 availability to redeem the supposedly industry-standard 25K domestic coach award and always have to shell out much more miles to redeem the "Rule-Breaker" or whatever catchy name NW has, the equivalent of the ANYTIME award of other legacy airlines.

 

Do you mean Southwest, or Northwest? Very very different things, at least that is to me.

 

If you can confuse WN with NW, then....

 

BTW, NW is not specialized to fly shorthaul. It probably is the first American airline has route(s) to China.

 

I can agree folks live in DTW or may be MEM, are "forced" to fly NW for most their air-travel needs unless they fly short-hops that WN, i.e. Southwest serves.

[nho9504]

At the rate things are going, Southwest may be the only airline flying in six months. It wouldn't suprise me if the number of flights offered by most airlines is cut in half in the next six months. Lay-offs, increased fares, and the mothballing of fuel guzzling airplanes.

Americans have hit their fossil fuel "wall" -- reality check time!

 

Kel

 

Most major airlines will still be flying - there may be a merger or 2, but they will still be flying. UA went into bankruptcy on May 11, 2005. I forgot when it emerged. UA has not stopped one single day of flying when it was in bankruptcy. Ditto DL, NW, and CO, which has filed bankruptcies for a few times. America West was the only one stopped flying under its name, because it merged with US Air. The 2 brankrupted airlines that stopped flying - Frontier is a much small, regional airline. ATA was the re-incarnation of ValueJet which had a disaster (plunging into Everglade) a few years ago.

 

I do agree with you about "Americans have hit their fossil fuel "wall" -- reality check time!"

 

We just returned from Europe - the price of gas (they called it Petrol over there) is about the same as a few years ago - much more expensive than here, even with our $4 a gallon. Europeans drive tiny cars when they do drive and generally use public transportation for majority of their travel needs (be it commuting to work or actual travel.) Of course, there are lots of other factors involved to make such major difference between the way how Americans and Europeans travel (or getting from one place to the other). A subject way too big to talk about it on this board.

[KLLund]

I talk about WN, not NW.

 

WN is the code for Southwest, NW is the code for Northwest. One is so-called low-cost carrier and presumably is run brilliantly. The other is one of the legacy airlines that go into brankruptcy. I dont know if NW has emerged from bankruptcy or not, I do know NW frequent flyers complain a lot about how there are 0 availability to redeem the supposedly industry-standard 25K domestic coach award and always have to shell out much more miles to redeem the "Rule-Breaker" or whatever catchy name NW has, the equivalent of the ANYTIME award of other legacy airlines.

 

Do you mean Southwest, or Northwest? Very very different things, at least that is to me.

 

If you can confuse WN with NW, then....

 

BTW, NW is not specialized to fly shorthaul. It probably is the first American airline has route(s) to China.

 

I can agree folks live in DTW or may be MEM, are "forced" to fly NW for most their air-travel needs unless they fly short-hops that WN, i.e. Southwest serves.

 

Sorry it was a typo .. I did mean SWA!!

[nho9504]

quote=nho9504;14741263]I actually like DL's partnership with SQ. They have great deals for 60-65k miles to most of North Asia. I have also found SQ tickets easy to redeem. I also like the fact that DL is linked to AMEX membership rewards. I was sad when their direct VS relationship was severed (it may be still possible to work something through CO/Skyteam). One of the best pass deals I got was premium economy to the UK for 60k/person during summer.

 

AS is good if you live in ANC, SEA, or PDX - otherwise I would pick another carrier as most of your flights will be on another carrier. I prefer to fly most of the time on a carrier where I have direct status. This really helps the chance for free upgrades, enhanced seat assignment options, and early boarding in coach. Having status also helps when your aircraft is delayed/cancelled.

 

Realize that AS is known for having a differentiated business model (including many partnerships as opposed to being in an alliance) with very strong positions in selected markets as well as a near monopoly in Alaska.

 

 

It is very interesting that SQ, a member of *Alliance, is also a partner airline of DL and you said it is easy to redeem. I assume the 60-65K awards refer to Coach Transpac to North Asia?

SQ transpac premium cabin award is HARD to redeem using * Alliance partner award. I do not know about the coach award, for I feel too old to fly 14 hours in coach. In asmuch as the FF programs are in jeopardy, we should burn our miles instead of hoarding them. ;)

 

If you notice, AS only partners with Oneworld and Skyteam members, but * Alliance member is absent from AS partnerships.

 

When DL was in dire need of cash, it sold tons of miles to AMEX - the "double-miles" earning on AMEX cards have largely been responsible for DL's "devaluation" of its miles - in that, the saver awards largely disappear, only the Standard awards are available. The SQ awards sound enticing.

 

A friend recently traded his DL vouchers for AS miles at the valuation of 1.5 cpm, a high valuation for AS miles but still good value, for the easiness of redeeming BA F seats to Europe and Australia. He has no desire to earn more DL miles although he has status with DL.

[SelectSys]

Because you do not sound like you are knowledgeable about such programs. The way you talk about airline bankruptcies and how the tickets and FF programs become worthless, show it to me, you have NO knowledge.

 

We are in a new era. What happened to Aloha's FF program holders? I don't think they are getting anything:

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/up-front-with-tim-winship/aloha-airlines-suspends-flights-terminates-frequent-flyer-miles.html?id=2541751

 

ALL the legacies, except AA, have filed bankruptcies, one more than a few times (CO came to mind). At NO TIME the ticketholders and their FF programs have been jeoperdize - even when America West merged with US Air, the 2 bankrupted airlines merged, and then emerged - the ticketholders and the FFlyers of US Air have not lost anything.

 

As I indicated above, we are entering a new era. No easy exits via Chapter 11 and the feds know that excess industry capacity exists. The next time a major legacy (e.g., UA) goes into bankruptcy they will likely experience a hard shutdown. I also doubt another carrier would do an asset acquisition like DL did when they picked up Pan Am's frequent flyer program. A prescient quote from FrequentFlier.com in 2005 in light of the Aloha situation:

"A Look Ahead

While frequent flyer program members and their miles generally have fared well even when their airlines have not, the odds are that future liquidations will not play out so benignly.

 

A failed airline's frequent flyer program represents both a marketing asset (the loyalty and future business of vested members) and a significant contingent liability (the cost of delivering award travel when the miles are redeemed). In good times, the marketing benefits trump the costs. But in an environment of deteriorating balance sheets and financial desperation, airline managers are more likely to focus on costs.

Members of troubled carriers' programs who hope for a repeat of the TWA scenario should ask themselves: Today, which airline has the will and the financial resources to absorb the miles of a major program like US Airways' or United's?"

http://www.frequentflier.com/bankruptcy.htm

 

As you yourself indicated, "past performance is not indicative of future results."

 

WRT to AA - See my original comparison of LUV and AMR where I noted that AA had not gone through bankruptcy. That is why I compared the two airlines.

 

You are compare apple with orange and generalize the whole industry into just 2 camps - one side is WN and the rest are others. Such opinions certainly do not sound like coming from an AA PLT. LOL.

 

Actually, I combined AS and WN together as differentiated airlines and noted that these two companies fared much better than the traditional legacy carriers.

 

Regardless, what does having status have to do with taking a rational look at an airline's business? Does having status on a particular airline infer that one must be a blind cheerleader for them and make disparaging comments against other carriers?

 

I am at a loss that you being a lifetime AA PLT, why would you advocate flying WN - for the perks of PLT on AA is quite good - why would you fly WN when AA PLT gives 100% bonus on redeemable miles when flying AA?

 

Why fly WN?

1) Because WN has the best scheduled service for me some of time

2) They have a highly predictable product that is fairly priced.

 

At SAN, my home airport, WN is usually the best alternative for my travel in CA. I typically only use Eagle for trips to SJC as it is a non-stop flight. Same story for NV and AZ - AA doesn't really provide an alternative and I prefer WN over US any day.

 

Does this make sense?

 

PLTs get to ... With such advantages, why would you prefer WN?!

 

I never stated an exclusive preference for WN. I merely state they are a highly successful airline, with predictable service, and fairly valued prices that is the best choice for me in certain markets. Similarly AS is my preferred carrier for service between CA and WA, AK, and Western Mexico. For all other areas I first look to AA or another OneWorld carrier for paid tickets.

 

... So, what not to like about AA?

 

Who doesn't "like" or respect AA? Whether I "like" and respect AA has nothing to do with my viewpoint regarding WN. I "like" and respect other airlines as well. Does "like" and respect of an airline need to be exclusive?

 

AS is a catch-all basket for us - all the occasional, strayed flights on NW, DL, got dumped to AS basket

 

That seems to be a good strategy. I have used DL in a similar fashion over the years as an alternate program/airline. AS might be a better alternative.

[SelectSys]

... and you said it is easy to redeem. I assume the 60-65K awards refer to Coach Transpac to North Asia?

Yes out of LA. I have used these for TPE and NRT travel. These are refueling stops for trips for all SQ flight SIN with the exception of the A340-500 flight which is non-stop.

 

... I do not know about the coach award, for I feel too old to fly 14 hours in coach.

My rational is that two trips are better than one. As a result, I have just trained myself to deal with coach for most flights. Additionally, most of my award travel is for a family of four. If I was a true high mileage flyer I might feel different. I am hoping for more premium economy offerings in the future - especially after I stop accumulating miles from business.

[NCTribeFan]

Right. Sorry to interrupt this discussion (and I have no idea what y'all are talking about), but I said I'd report back regarding my first SWA experience.

 

Checked in online 24 hours prior to our flight and received A boarding passes. Unfortunately a couple with two small boys boarded after us and sat two each in the row in front of us. Mom had apparently never heard the term "inside voice" so had never taught the boys that it was not necessary to screech as loudly as possible the entire flight. Thankfully, there were empty seats and I removed myself to one near the back of the plane.

 

It was a non-stop flight (RDU-MCO) and was quite pleasant, despite the early hour and the initial screeching child issue.

 

Coming back on Saturday night, we had a 7:45 flight so spent a few hours in Cocoa Beach before heading back to Orlando. Although we hadn't checked in early (since we were onboard the Glory), we arrived at the airport at about 4:30 to a fairly long line at the checkin counter. It moved quickly, though, and when we checked in, we received B7 & B8.

 

This was fine, as we would then know where the screeching children were sitting. However, when we boarded, I saw that the row behind the "short" 2-seat exit row was empty. I grabbed the window seat because there was no seat in front of me, which provided lots of leg room!

 

Unfortunately, there was a woman with two small girls across the aisle, 1 row back. We were delayed on the runway for about another 30 minutes as a thunderstorm came through. The one girl SCREAMED the entire time. I'm not talking about crying. She literally screamed. Over and over and over and over. It didn't appear that Mom was even making an effort to get her to stop. Of course, just as we were taking off (and would have some engine noise to drown out the screams), she wore down and finally shut up.

 

The male flight attendant was great. He reminded me of Will Sasso! Very dry humor and very funny.

 

Little girl started up the screaming again not long before we landed. It was unreal. I know that there are times that it is impossible to placate an irritable child, but I've never seen someone just sit there and act as though it wasn't happening.

 

Then, Mom jumps out of the seats as we're trying to retrieve our bag from the overhead bin, and leaves the two girls standing in their row. Everyone has to stop and wait for them as she just strolls off. Maybe she thought she could abandon them!

 

They finally get the idea and start down the aisle, only to stop in their tracks. As I was behind them, I leaned over and said - loudly - JUST WALK!!!! JUST LET US GET AWAY FROM YOU! NOW!

 

I heard quite a few chuckles from those lined up behind us.

 

Anyway, Southwest itself was just fine. The boarding procedure was fine, once I understood how it worked. Flying in and out of Orlando wasn't because of the volume of children.

 

Given the cost ($306 for two for non-stop flights), I'll certainly check them for future flights.

 

You may now return to your off-topic debate!

[NCMtnBoys]

Thankfully, there were empty seats and I removed myself to one near the back of the plane.

 

 

Ahhhhhhh....the beauty of not having an assigned seat!! That's always been one of the many pluses of WN for me.

 

Glad your first overall experience on WN was good, thanks for reporting back. I'm glad you didn't let the incidents with the brats sway your view of WN, as it can happen on any airline.

[Cuizer2]

It was a non-stop flight (RDU-MCO) and was quite pleasant ...

 

I'm just wondering. If the plane didn't stop, how did you get off? :confused:

[chrisbd1]

I'm just wondering. If the plane didn't stop, how did you get off? :confused:

They opened the doors I'll bet:rolleyes: .

[NCTribeFan]

I'll tell ya, on Saturday night, sitting in that exit row next to the door, I was ready to pull that handle and chuck mom & the two girls out! I truly have never heard that level of screaming/tantrum throwing in my life. And I hope I never hear it again. Sheesh. Toys, books and games are a travelling parent's friend. Perhaps she'll consider them next time.

[Globaliser]

Ahhhhhhh....the beauty of not having an assigned seat!! That's always been one of the many pluses of WN for me.

Er, this is the same with any airline, allocated seats or not. If there are spare seats, you can move. If there are trim issues for takeoff and landing, you may be asked to move only after takeoff and to move back before landing.

 

And as with any other airline, if there are no empty seats, you can't escape.

[Cuizer2]

And as with any other airline, if there are no empty seats, you can't escape.

 

Just open the door and go outside. Plenty of fresh air. It will be a little windy, so bring a windbreaker.

[Globaliser]

Just open the door and go outside. Plenty of fresh air. It will be a little windy, so bring a windbreaker.

Are you allowed to smoke out there?

[gazingm42]

1. I don't find them cheaper most of the time.

2. There customer service is one of the worst. Don't schedule flights less

than 90 - 120 minutes apart. If the original flight is late, regardless

weather or mechanical. They will not give you standby priority on the

next flights nor help you with an hotel. Watch the show AIRLINE on

the BIO station. Its a day-to-day life of SWA problems. You can watch

its customer service 1st hand.

 

3. I feel SWA makes too many stops overs. There not many non-stop on

long distance flights.

[Cuizer2]

Are you allowed to smoke out there?

 

Well, as far as I know, all flights are still non-smoking. :p

[parody]

In comparing fares between Southwest and other airlines, the future should be interesting. WN's hedging of fuel prices has been cited, both here and elsewhere, as one reason for being able to manage fare levels. Now, today's Wall Street Journal (5/28/2008) provides more details on what they have done. With oil currently near $130 per barrel, they state that "Southwest has locked in more than 70% of its jet-fuel requirements this year at a price equivalent to $51 a barrel for crude oil." (As a point of comparison, other airlines have hedged 30% or less of their fuel needs this year.) Later, "Southwest's longest-dated hedge, covering more than 15% of its fuel needs in 2012 (emphasis added) at about $63 a barrel, was lined up about a year ago."

[lagbunch8]

For me flying out of MCO SW is cheaper 99% of the time. I visit Boston via Providence 4-6 times a year. I also find the crew to be the most friendly and laid back. Maybe it's cheaper to fly in and out of FL?

[NCTribeFan]

I originally booked the two cruises I booked for 2008 because I could drive to the ports in Florida. I figured, if by some miracle I found decent air, I'd book it and fly.

 

When I stumbled across the Southwest fares (thanks to this thread!), I booked immediately. I'm sailing from Jax in December, but if SW has fares just as reasonable then, I'll even fly into MCO and rent a car.

 

Finding those reasonable, non-stop fares was a very pleasant surprise. Of course, I'd prefer to NEVER fly into Orlando again (because of the Kid Factor), but I'd rather suffer through a couple of hours of screaming than sit in the car hours and hours and hours!

[nho9504]

We are in a new era. What happened to Aloha's FF program holders? I don't think they are getting anything:

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/up-front-with-tim-winship/aloha-airlines-suspends-flights-terminates-frequent-flyer-miles.html?id=2541751

 

A failed airline's frequent flyer program represents both a marketing asset (the loyalty and future business of vested members) and a significant contingent liability (the cost of delivering award travel when the miles are redeemed). In good times, the marketing benefits trump the costs. But in an environment of deteriorating balance sheets and financial desperation, airline managers are more likely to focus on costs.

Members of troubled carriers' programs who hope for a repeat of the TWA scenario should ask themselves: Today, which airline has the will and the financial resources to absorb the miles of a major program like US Airways' or United's?"

http://www.frequentflier.com/bankruptcy.htm

 

The FF programs of the majors, are Profit Centers, not marketing assets.

 

DL relies on selling millions and millions of miles to AMEX for cash to get them thru the bankruptcy period.

 

Air Canada has spun off its FF program to an independent entity which has been doing very well.

 

A large shareholder of AA has been demanding AA to spin off AAdvantage a la Air Canada fashion, since a year ago.

 

AA's 10K has mentioned how many miles it sold to all its partners - of course the price is a highly-guarded secret.

 

When UA was in bankruptcy, its FF program is the ONLY division in the company that actually made money.

 

The miles are not liabilities as much as you think - for the Saver awards are capacity controlled - the time it has availability for redemption, meaning the seats would go unsold anyway - Airline seats are more perishable merchandise than the milk at grocery store!

 

The only liability is the AAnytime awards - but the airlines charge double miles for that (you can view it as the airline has sold double miles for that Anytime seat redemption.)

 

This country has overcapacity of banks and financial institutions, too. Why Fed does not let some of them go bankrupt and just die?

 

AFAIK, government has not really rescued any airline in the past. The airlines got themselves out of the bad situations.

 

About Aloha. Aloha is not a major player - it is a very limited regional and a very weak one when you have Hawaiian flying the same routes. I earnest dont understand why anyone would want to accumulate miles at Aloha when they can put their miles into UA.

 

Same goes to people buying tickets to fly Alitalia which has very shaky financials - if I have to fly Alitalia for whatever reason, I would make sure to use a CC that offer trip cancellation / interruption insurance coverage. Having CC refund the ticket costs is not enough. You need coverage so that you can fly another airline and the insurance reimburse you the additional costs incurred.

 

The individual flyer can use some knowledge so to "self-defense" - but no need to become paranoid. We have just about 500K AA miles combined in 2 accounts, after burning 180K for 2 business tickets. I dont worry a bit we would not be able to use such miles.

 

If you are worrying about your FF accounts, you can transfer them to hotel programs - that is, you do not intend to claim premium cabin awards. Flying is still the most valuable redemption, even in coach, imo.