Carnaival reducing direct sales. Will RCI follow?

[Cruising89143]

I have found those large on line companies to be lackluster in many areas and the brick and mortar TA's to be much more on the ball with their business. To me an on line TA in a large office is no different than one sitting behind the desk of a cruise line. Most have never stepped foot on a ship and rely on the information in front of them on a computer screen.

 

A good TA is worth their weight in gold when an issue arises and it's between you and the cruise line to get straightened out.

[concour]

I have used a local TA for years. She looks after me better than my wife. She checks for price breaks, calls when deals become available (both cruising and land vacations), I get OBC and other surprises on the cruise. I am in no way inept when it comes to cruising or many other things. A good TA is a godsend. As for as pricing goes with RCL and many other cruise lines the prices are set and when you add up all the fees and taxes you will find out that they are the same.

[TahoeBob]

I stand by my OPINION...I did say it was my opinion or did you not see that part. For someone who knows exactly what cruise they want and is capable of making the initial reservation on line via the cruise line website, they may as well get the better price they are sure to get by using one of the online T/A's instead of a local T/A when they transfer the reservation. Local T/A's are generally a ripoff and you can usually get a much better price using online T/A's. Also, a local T/A is just as likely to screw up the reservation as an online T/A. The only people who should use local T/A's are those that are completely unfamiliar with and inept at making any kind of arrangements themselves.

I am sorry but you are way off base on this its not even funny! I have a friend who uses a local TA for his personal and buiseness travel. He is more than able to make make any and all of his plans. The thing it is that it is much more cost effective to have a TA make his plans for him. All he does is pick up the phone and tell the TA that he needs to be in Paris on Sept 18 for 5 nights and its done. Some people just don't have time to make all the plans, and others have no desire to make the plans.

[geojobes]

ABCTEN - You are entitled to your opinion, for sure. I have used a Brick & Mortar TA for all my cruises. Their prices are usually lower than online TA's & I know where to find them if I ever have a problem. On RCCL They give us a good OBC, since they can't discount. On my booked Princess cruise, I checked with the "compete" site & my TA was lower than all but 1. That one was $8 less. You can call them dinosaurs all you want, I'm sticking with what has worked so well for me.

[Cruise Junky]

I don't want to bash bricks and morter TAs but we've been very, very happy with our online agent. We've used them for years and have never found a local agent that can touch them in prices. We have friends who are very wealthy and cruise in suites a lot, ususally 40 - 50 days at a time, she was horrified of what she's saved since switching to the same agent.....horrified because she now knows how much she could have saved. We used their agent when we cruised with them on Sea Princess....local agent arranged everything, the flights were terrible, late out of Ft. Lauderdale, 5 hour layovers in Houston ...and it was planned that way, there weren't delays. I'm too much of a control freak to let anyone else do it. I travel a lot for business as well and we have a corporate travel agent, I tell them exactly what flights to put me on, I'd never say I need to be in Paris on Thursday, so different people need and want different things.

 

We save anywhere from 10 - 16% from published fares, whether that's OBC which my TA takes off the final price anyway or just a general price reduction, that's an awful lot to pay just in case something goes wrong, which I could probably fix better myself.

[negc]

I stand by my OPINION...I did say it was my opinion or did you not see that part. For someone who knows exactly what cruise they want and is capable of making the initial reservation on line via the cruise line website, they may as well get the better price they are sure to get by using one of the online T/A's instead of a local T/A when they transfer the reservation. Local T/A's are generally a ripoff and you can usually get a much better price using online T/A's. Also, a local T/A is just as likely to screw up the reservation as an online T/A. The only people who should use local T/A's are those that are completely unfamiliar with and inept at making any kind of arrangements themselves.

 

You do have opinions but you know what they are comparing opinions to, when they say "everyone has one". It is unfortunate that you have never had occasion to encounter a good local TA. You might be a bit less harsh in your opinion and less condescending about those who use them.

[ubdkjrb]

That person must sell $250,000 in cruises for the cruise line to just break even.

 

Using your numbers, that would mean that the employee would have to sell one $2500 cruise every 2.5 working days! Pretty doable, I'd say. Again, RCCL had total revenue of $4 billion last year and $1 billion in commissions. At $35000 including training and benefits, that would equate to 28,571 direct sales employees. Now, of course, they wouldn't have to have that many since most would use their internet booking engine. The last cruise I booked with RCCL took me less than 10 minutes, including putting up the down payment.

 

As for the rest of the discussions on this thread about the brick and mortar TA's verses the on-line TA's.... read a few of the last few discussions about using TA's verses direct booking and you'll find that the overwhelming majority of those that use TA's for RCCL do so just before final payment so that they maintain control of their booking and transfer simply to get the OBC - not because they get "service" or have someone to help with their problems. It's all about the money. What they forget is that they are, in fact, causing cruise prices to stay higher than if RCCL were 100% direct as the airlines are. They wouldn't spend but maybe half of the billion dollars. That would allow cruise prices to decrease.

 

Face it; before online banking, we all had to go to the bank. Before Tax Cut and other tax software, most of us had to use a tax accountant. Before the copy machine, we had to use carbon paper. Before email with attachments, we actually wrote letters and enclosed snapshots. Etc. etc. etc.

 

Peter

[crt37]

I have used a Brick & Mortar TA for all my cruises. Their prices are usually lower than online TA's

 

This is totally absurd. I have received quotes from online travel agents and have contacted local travel agents to see if they could match. Usually the local travel agent tells me they can not even come close to that price. They admit right up front they can't compete with online travel agents on price. Local travel agents are useless unless you either have no idea what you are doing or if money is no object to you and you are happy overpaying.

[crt37]

I am sorry but you are way off base on this its not even funny! I have a friend who uses a local TA for his personal and buiseness travel. He is more than able to make make any and all of his plans. The thing it is that it is much more cost effective to have a TA make his plans for him. All he does is pick up the phone and tell the TA that he needs to be in Paris on Sept 18 for 5 nights and its done. Some people just don't have time to make all the plans, and others have no desire to make the plans.

 

Actually you are agreeing with what the poster said. Your friend is getting hosed by the local travel agent but he doesn't seem to mind. He thinks it is worth it to overpay and not have to hassle with it. That approach is fine as long as you know going in you are paying way too much.

[aqhacruiser]

I would not book with a TA, I book with RCCL and then transfer it to my wonderful online TA. I control my reservation right up to the time I transfer and that how I want it and yes, my TA gives me a great perk. I'm sure there are great TA's out there that really do look after their clients but my feeling is that no one looks after my reservation better then me as I do not have several other clients to take care of. When I transfer, every discount has been taken and every onboard credit has been added so it's all done when my TA gets it.

It is about the perk I get from my TA but it's also about the ease to do everything online and it's taken care of immediately when I transfer, I receive my bill for final pmt. and I pay it online and print my Seapass, docs are sent to my house. I do not have to wait for a TA to call me or call them, it's all done online on my time not theirs. If I want to switch a cabin for some reason or if a better one comes available or it's the same cabin for a B to B I do it right online without worrying about having a TA to do it in time before it's gone. If I want to grab a promo wave or sales event I just call C & A without waiting to get ahold of a TA to do it for me and risk losing a good cabin and I can cancel and rebook another date with a click of a button myself so booking direct gives me a lot more freedom in booking cruises. Bookings get complicated also with Diamond discounts, C & A coupons, Shareholders OBC, Visa OBC, Next Cruise OBC, Insurance, so I want to be sure everything is done right and I get a confirmation email detailing everything from RCCL before I transfer.

Everyone has to do what works best for them:)

[aqhacruiser]

I don't want to bash bricks and morter TAs but we've been very, very happy with our online agent. We've used them for years and have never found a local agent that can touch them in prices. We have friends who are very wealthy and cruise in suites a lot, ususally 40 - 50 days at a time, she was horrified of what she's saved since switching to the same agent.....horrified because she now knows how much she could have saved. We used their agent when we cruised with them on Sea Princess....local agent arranged everything, the flights were terrible, late out of Ft. Lauderdale, 5 hour layovers in Houston ...and it was planned that way, there weren't delays. I'm too much of a control freak to let anyone else do it. I travel a lot for business as well and we have a corporate travel agent, I tell them exactly what flights to put me on, I'd never say I need to be in Paris on Thursday, so different people need and want different things.

 

We save anywhere from 10 - 16% from published fares, whether that's OBC which my TA takes off the final price anyway or just a general price reduction, that's an awful lot to pay just in case something goes wrong, which I could probably fix better myself.

 

That's the same percentage my online TA gives me and to answer someone elses comment, Yes, it is a massive agency and charter members with RCCL. There is no way a small agency can compete with a large agency as a large agency can afford to offer more incentive as they are selling so many more cruises. Brick and mortar TA's also pay for more overhead in maintaining a building, office staff and saleries, benefits, office supplies, mailings, print ads, etc. where an online TA has less overhead using much less staff and supplies as everything is done online.

Some people are not comfortable doing business online and prefer a local TA and that's their decision.

[aqhacruiser]

This is totally absurd. I have received quotes from online travel agents and have contacted local travel agents to see if they could match. Usually the local travel agent tells me they can not even come close to that price. They admit right up front they can't compete with online travel agents on price. Local travel agents are useless unless you either have no idea what you are doing or if money is no object to you and you are happy overpaying.

 

I would never say local TA's are useless. I have a friend who is a local TA and yes, they do a great job with newbies but OMG, some of the very seasoned cruisers can be a royal PIA expecting the TA to hold their hand up until boarding day and some continue the demands by cell phone from a ship. They can change their minds 10 times and expect the TA to make it right and they can be very demanding. So I KNOW TA's earn thier money at times dealing with impossible people. Those kind of people want to feel they are getting personal service just for them and at times it is NOT an easy job dealing with them!

[KreiderCarter]

I stand by my OPINION...I did say it was my opinion or did you not see that part. For someone who knows exactly what cruise they want and is capable of making the initial reservation on line via the cruise line website, they may as well get the better price they are sure to get by using one of the online T/A's instead of a local T/A when they transfer the reservation. Local T/A's are generally a ripoff and you can usually get a much better price using online T/A's. Also, a local T/A is just as likely to screw up the reservation as an online T/A. The only people who should use local T/A's are those that are completely unfamiliar with and inept at making any kind of arrangements themselves.

 

I agree with most of what you said, we also book directly through RCCL and have never experienced any trouble. We don't need a TA to book excursions, it can't get much easier than using the RCCL website to use that, we book our own airfare & hotels (and their are tons of online sites that compete for your dollar). While I don't think TA's are a scam, they just can't compete with the ease of using the internet or phone to book reservations with the cruiseline and other travel arrangements...its a sign of the times.

[BoLTMaNv2]

The sad truth...

 

Local TA's time on this planet is limited. Just like Full serve gas stations.

 

I tell the truth and you know it.

[G'ma]

From Seatrader. Copyright article so I cannot post the full article.

http://www.cruise-community.com/ShowStory.asp?ID=14524

 

Here is a snip.

 

Arison: Carnival is reducing direct sales

19/6/2008

Carnival Cruise Lines is decreasing its direct business but expects to see higher yields and lower costs by selling more inventory through travel agents, corporate chairman and ceo Micky Arison said.

 

Also......

 

http://www.cruise-community.com/ShowStory.asp?ID=14531

 

A snip of the article.

 

WTAA hails Carnival stance on direct sales

20/6/2008

The chairman of the World Travel Agents Associations Alliance, Mike Hatton, responded immediately to Micky Arison’s announcement that Carnival Cruise Lines is reducing direct sales in favour of the travel agency network.

 

AHH! The good old days coming back.

 

Travel Agents have always been the very cheapest distributor and seller of travel products. When cruise companies and airlines decided they could do it themselves, thereby saving on the commissions they give to agents, they dug a hole for themselves, for sure.

 

A travel agent costs them NOTHING. No overhead, no salaries, no benefits - nothing. There is no cost to the cruise line at all until the cruise is paid in full by the passenger. At that time, the agent sends payment to the cruise company, less whatever commission is coming.

 

Some genius should have figured that out long before they trashcanned the travel agent community long ago and started hiring reservationists who didn't have a clue about the cruise experience - or customer service - or much else.

 

Time to pay the piper, I guess.

[kidless]

Pardon me. As a cruise based travel agency owner, I can tell you that the cruise line's yield MOST of their sales from us, not from direct sales, and please be aware that there are many marketing restrictions placed on travel agents by the cruise lines, so in a "perfect world", perhaps we could "pump up and do more marketing and strategic selling" if we were allowed to do so. Also, unlike the multi-billion annual take that each cruise line or corporation sees, my tiny, independent business sees a nano-fraction of that revenue, so they can AFFORD the expensive marketing campaigns that I cannot. Trust me, the cruise lines are not doing this to "help" TA's in any way, shape or form. We bring them more revenue than their direct sales. I also provide superior customer service and handling for my clients which is an incentive for MANY to book through me or other TA's than going directly through the cruise lines. I do not impose "agency fees" or other revenue generating "traps" I've seen people talk about, and I do not pad my pricing either. Give me (and other TA's) a break! Your remarks are quite offensive to me.

 

No offense to you as I am sure you are a very good hard working TA. However I have had my share of poor ones who do not give the service I expect. I hate to see the lines start going completely though TA's our cruise we have booked next September is though a TA, one who was highly recommend from someone on this board. I will not use her again and will book all future cruises though the cruise line. As the last two TA's we have used were very disappointing to us.

[cindymouse42]

I have booked my own cruises with no problems, I enjoy doing it. The cruise we will be taking in August was "waitlisted". I was on the waitlist and thought I would check with the local travel agent - she could get us better cabin locations at the same price and two free RCI robes and no waitlist! I cancelled my waitlisted reservation and had my TA book right away. The only problem I have had is with RCI, the day after I booked this very $$ cruise they had a special - my TA called and they would not honor, I called and they would not honor. I wrote a letter with no response. I sure hope that this cruise goes better than trying to deal with RCI customer service. You would think they would give someone a measly $200 shipboard credit when we are spending $12,000!!!

[NHRAgroup]

At this time I am using a TA to book a group cruise, RCCI does not do it anymore. But I wish it was as easy as booking throught RCCI. It toom many call to RCCI to get info I needed because the TA cannot tell me things we need to know to set things up. I am waiting over two weeks for answers for group booking at Chops. Maybe RCCI can invest in a web page like a google page to ask questions and get answers faster. My TA claims it is RCCI that is tking there time with the answers. When I do call RCCI I get a different answer each time I ask the same. So far we booked three cruises from a TA and the rest through RCCI C&A and like doing it with the C & A much better.

[Sue L]

I stand by my OPINION...I did say it was my opinion or did you not see that part. For someone who knows exactly what cruise they want and is capable of making the initial reservation on line via the cruise line website, they may as well get the better price they are sure to get by using one of the online T/A's instead of a local T/A when they transfer the reservation. Local T/A's are generally a ripoff and you can usually get a much better price using online T/A's. Also, a local T/A is just as likely to screw up the reservation as an online T/A. The only people who should use local T/A's are those that are completely unfamiliar with and inept at making any kind of arrangements themselves.

 

 

Excuse me, but where do you get off calling hard working people who bow and scrape to *&%Y$ idiots like you a ripoff? Our prices are as good or better then booking direct OR with a online TA because RCCL does allow discounting. But many times we have group space and can beat the direct price and online TA prices. Also with online TA's try getting the same person twice on the phone. When your airline bumps you let's see how much they help you. When you have a luggage issue or medical problem are they going to be there for you? NO they won't but I will.

[ehfl]

How is it more efficient to have a middleman? There was a time, before the internet, and cheap communications, that middlemen made sense in some industries. But with very low cost of direct internet transactions, and low cost call centers, how does it makes sense to bring in middlemen?

[madforcruising]

How is it more efficient to have a middleman? There was a time, before the internet, and cheap communications, that middlemen made sense in some industries. But with very low cost of direct internet transactions, and low cost call centers, how does it makes sense to bring in middlemen?

 

 

The cruise lines still have to pay those people on the phone making the bookings and they sit there being paid regardless if cruises are booked or not. The TA´s only get commission from the cruise line when a cruise is actually sold and paid. To make things worse for the cruise line they have to pay all these direct selling people and in the end the customer transfers the booking to receive some perks and they still have to pay commission. So actually the cruise line pays double for only one booking. I can see how they want the middleman back.

[JHCB]

I had a brief stint as a TA and can attest to the amount of work that a good TA does for a client. But now I book my own cruises directly and turn them over to a TA just before final payment. I would object to being forced to use TA:

 

I actually miss working with a TA. I only stopped, because the big internet middlemen (i.e., Travelocity) and of course RCI's website seemed more accessible and I think I have (incorrectly, mind you) made the assumption that you can get a better deal by buying direct. However recently I looked and all of the big online vendor's and RCI's prices were inline with one another...down to the dollar.

 

I have often wondered about doing this...that TA's in trying to earn your business, will offer incentives. What are these incentives? And, what does this do to any coupons, and other discounts you may have had from say, booking on board? Are there other implications that I am neglecting to mention?

 

Thanks!

[Sue L]

I actually miss working with a TA. I only stopped, because the big internet middlemen (i.e., Travelocity) and of course RCI's website seemed more accessible and I think I have (incorrectly, mind you) made the assumption that you can get a better deal by buying direct. However recently I looked and all of the big online vendor's and RCI's prices were inline with one another...down to the dollar.

 

I have often wondered about doing this...that TA's in trying to earn your business, will offer incentives. What are these incentives? And, what does this do to any coupons, and other discounts you may have had from say, booking on board? Are there other implications that I am neglecting to mention?

 

Thanks!

 

You can do all the OBC from booking on board, coupons, apply any senior/residency/military discount with your TA if they honor them. I am able to access my clients reservations from both my home and office computer through RCCL Travel agent website. RCCL does NOT allow discounting so everyone will have the exact same price unless a particular agency is holding group space which will give a discount.

[passion?cruising]

To make a point to the original posting....wondering if RCI is going to go down the same path as Carnival...I really don't think they are headed that way. Even though they have promos of how much they love travel agents, they are recruiting like crazy for Sales Reps. If no one here has ever put in an application online with RCI it sure makes for interesting opportunities for employment. They have sent me three emails lately for Sr. Sales representative...taking calls for booking cruises. I've been recruited as a traveling Bar Manager....they obviously don't know me....I would drink up the profits LOL and many other opportuinities over the last couple years.

 

Nope....I don't think RCI is pushing cruisers to TAs, but they also know that the majority of their business is through the TA distribution model and continue to support the best producers. Just MHO

[ehfl]

The cruise lines still have to pay those people on the phone making the bookings and they sit there being paid regardless if cruises are booked or not. The TA´s only get commission from the cruise line when a cruise is actually sold and paid. To make things worse for the cruise line they have to pay all these direct selling people and in the end the customer transfers the booking to receive some perks and they still have to pay commission. So actually the cruise line pays double for only one booking. I can see how they want the middleman back.

 

If the problem is a result of transfering reservations to a TA, then the "cure" would seem to be to stop allowing transfers to TAs....not to push even more people to using TAs.

 

Ultimately, the passenger pays the cost of the call centers. It doesn't matter whether it's the cruise line call center, or the TA call center.

 

Disintermediation is the buzzword for the Internet age. With fuel prices going up, cruise lines should start thinking about cutting commissions, and encourage people to book directly.