Royal Caribbean Called Me

[Mark_K]

"When someone says, 'It's not the money, it's the principle of the thing', it's the money."
Kin Hubbard (1868 - 1930)

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits" Mark Twain

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's formal night attire, poolside attire, child rearing practices, walk-talkie usage, chair hogging, seat saving, line cutting ..." Mark_K

[GinaDucey]

Mark_K - here here!!!!!!!

Fantasy 11/91
Ecstasy 1/98
Fascination 11/99
Paradise 2/00
Imagination 4/02
Ecstasy 5/03
Paradise 10/03
Sovereign of the Seas 4/04


[img]http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&srgb=00ff00&prgb=da70d6&cdt=2004;4;30;17;0;00&timezone=GMT-0500[/img]
Till we leave on the Sovereign

[skiiergirl]

OC...The happy meal analogy does not compare to the complaints you have registered here. I have said this many times on many threads here but I will say it one more time....we are paying much less for cruises these days than we did 3 years ago. Just an example....3 or 4 years ago I paid approx. $1200 per person for the cruise. Today I pay $$650 to $850 per person for that same cruise. The only difference is now the $650 to $850 is for a larger cabin than the $1200 and I now have a few food differences. (Food quality has gone down and I now have to pay for JR if I desire to eat there.) I have said here many times that I would rather pay more for the cruise and have better quality food or have an upscale food option, etc. But that is another topic and another thread. My point here is yes, they are having to add a few "surcharges" but with the cost of cruising so much less today than in past years then I feel that is reasonable. I don't believe they are charging for juice (in buffet and dining room) but I will let you know next week. They are not charging (yet) for Seaview Cafe on Radiance class ships, the pizza/sandwiches in the solarium, the sandwiches, pastries, etc. in Cafe Promenade on the Voyager class, or room service. Even if they did add surcharges to each and everyone of these, you still probably would come out less than if you were on a land vacation at a resort or if they went back to the old pricing from 3 or 4 years ago. I say, RCI quit the surcharges (so everyone will quit complaining...yeah, right) and just hike the prices back up to what they were in 1999 or 2001 (prior to 9/11). Then we'll see what everyone thinks about that! As far as missing Labadee and having to have an extra sea day...that would be great by us. We'd like a 14 day all seaday RCI cruise!

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I say, RCI quit the surcharges (so everyone will quit complaining...yeah, right) and just hike the prices back up to what they were in 1999 or 2001 (prior to 9/11). Then we'll see what everyone thinks about that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know you meant this tongue in cheek, but it's funny, I don't EVER remember ANYONE complaining about the prices!! Not a single thread!

Personally, I'd much prefer paying the additional 200 per person rather than have to endure the petty charges we're now seeing. RCI would make out in the bargain, because they're sure not going to make anything from me as things stand now!

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[hdawson]

Parn. If that $200 additional is for a basic inside cabin, would it be $600-800 pp for suit passengers? Further, not a week goes by that someone doesn't ask if cruising is getting too expensive since prices seem to be going up every week. Of course, most of us realize what a true value cruising represents. Yesterday, today and the foreseable future.

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hdawson:
Parn. If that $200 additional is for a basic inside cabin, would it be $600-800 pp for suit passengers? Further, not a week goes by that someone doesn't ask if cruising is getting too expensive since prices seem to be going up every week. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the 200 dollar difference more than makes up for any petty charges being levied, REGARDLESS of cabin category. If, however, RCI can get 600, 800, 1000 or more..for the suites as a result.more power to them! THAT'S good business! There just in no need to ruin the cruise experience as they do now!

Of course you see posts questioning if cruising is getting too expensive. Most have little or nothign to do with the price of the cruise as much as they do with the nickel and diming in CONJUNCTION with the price of the cruise.

Think back BEFORE the nickel and diming....did you see ANY such postings questioning value back then? If you did they were by novice cruisers with zero knowledge about what to expect. NOW, those doing the questiong are experienced, long term cruisers...who KNOW WHAT CRUISING IS ABOUT AND WHO ARE NO LONGER FINDING IT!

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[GinaDucey]

Real question here - Did RCCL include EVERYTHING in the total cruise price? I am just wondering - since my very first cruise I have always been hit with strategic marketing extras on every single ship. Was RCCL different in the past?

Fantasy 11/91
Ecstasy 1/98
Fascination 11/99
Paradise 2/00
Imagination 4/02
Ecstasy 5/03
Paradise 10/03
Sovereign of the Seas 4/04


[img]http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&srgb=00ff00&prgb=da70d6&cdt=2004;4;30;17;0;00&timezone=GMT-0500[/img]
Till we leave on the Sovereign

[Mark_K]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PARNAMI:
I don't EVER remember ANYONE complaining about the prices!! Not a single thread!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Either you don't read many threads or your memory's failing.

----------------------------------------------------------

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits" Mark Twain

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's formal night attire, poolside attire, child rearing practices, walk-talkie usage, chair hogging, seat saving, line cutting ..." Mark_K

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GinaDucey:
Real question here - Did RCCL include EVERYTHING in the total cruise price? I am just wondering - since my very first cruise I have always been hit with strategic marketing extras on every single ship. Was RCCL different in the past?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were no venues for charging extra for food so no excuse to do so. BUT...the food back then was much better with larger selections. The food budgets were higher as well! Bread was still baked each morning on board ship, not brought on board in Miami and expected to be fresh all week. Waiters still stood at their stations for breakfast, lunch and dinner, providing excellent service at all three meals. Dining room seating was open, with passengers choosing to be seated..or to sit at their own table, being served by their own wait staff.

At cruise end, your tip was based on three meals a day of excellent service where the waiters REALLY and truly did learn your preferences (if you allowed them to) and you really felt they deserved every bit of whatever you placed in the envelope.

Cabin stewards got to your cabin minutes after you left, and most passengers were surprised to find their cabins made up, mere minutes after having left them.

Wine was served by wine stewards who actually had a working knowledge of what it was they were serving, not by asst waiters trying to be all things to all people....and failing at all of them.

The ships were much better maintained with large budgets for ongoing maintenance. (RCI just reduced their maintenance budget to the ships..again, recently.) Back then, the only ongoing problem I ever noticed with RCI ships was a tendency for the carpets to have been left for replacing..a few months of heavy traffic too long: finding thread bare rugs was a regular occurance.

Back then, the company was still run by people who understood and spent their lifes within the industry rather than by former airline managers out to ruin yet another industry.....which they are well on thier ways to doing!

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[Mark_K]

PARNAMI,

And in constant dollars, a suite in those days on RCI cost more than what a suite on Radisson or Silversea does today, which is where you should go if you want the same experience (and same relative cost) that you used to get on RCI.

----------------------------------------------------------

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits" Mark Twain

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's formal night attire, poolside attire, child rearing practices, walk-talkie usage, chair hogging, seat saving, line cutting ..." Mark_K

[john&kelly]

This is simply UNBELIEVABLE!
John

Brilliance- Mediterranean- Venice
[img]http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&srgb=00ff00&prgb=0000ff&cdt=2004;8;6;19;00;00&timezone=GMT+0100[/img]

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GinaDucey:
since my very first cruise I have always been hit with strategic marketing extras on every single ship. Was RCCL different in the past?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I should have added this to the previous response.but.since I didn't....

I see you've spent a great deal of your time on Carnival. Carnival IS A marketing machine with virtually every on board addition and feature done with an eye towards directly adding to the bottom line. While other companies were improving cruising..for the sake of improving cruising, Carnival was adding features....directly, that brought in additional revenue.

My favorite case in point:

Carnival was among the first cruise lines and THE first of the mass market lines, to introduce TV's to all passenger cabins. While other lines offered a choice os two, maybe three music channels, Carnival offered TV. Why? To provide passengers with wider choices of in cabin entertainment? To permit passengers to keep abreast of what was going on in the world? NO! They introduced in cabin TV's so they could SELL their daily on board video which they promoted incessantly! Directly due to their promotions, Carnival stands alone as being able to get passengers, actually, to spring, not just for a summary of the cruise video that other lines now sell, but one that is created daily..along with the end of cruise video. Brilliant marketing on the part of Carnival..but..also one example of how they differed versus other lines.

I've noticed on Carnival, passengers seated in show lounges, continually, are bombarded by bar waiters for drinks. On RCI, the practice always has been, or at least, used to be that: passengers are approached for a drink shortly after they are seated, a napkin placed to indicate they were..and left alone from them on. There never was pressure to purchase a drink!

It was due to policies such as these that I never returned to Carnival: I equated them to what I now equate RCI..as providing an experience filled with a lot of annoying little extra charges..the beginning of nickel and diming. I'm now saddened to see RCI following suit.

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark_K:
PARNAMI,

And in constant dollars, a suite in those days on RCI cost more than what a suite on Radisson or Silversea does today, which is where you should go if you want the same experience (and same relative cost) that you used to get on RCI.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the problem..I'm not seeking a suite. Nor am I willing to spend 2000 dollars or more per person just to go around in circles in the Caribbean. I'm willing to pay subtantially more than what, currently, is being charged...just not twice as much.

How much per person do you really think RCI is making from all of the petty charges? 50 bucks? 100? It can't be much more than that. I'm willing to pay 200 pp more...just to get rid of them! From their standpoint..that should be viewed as a bargain. Lacking that, I'll simply return to booking the least expensive, tiniest cabin I can find..and paying for NOTHING in addition! I still get the concierge and all the other goodies that go with diamond membership. I'll probably even qualify for double diamond and all those added benefits by the time they implememnt it. RCI, on the other hands...barely breaks even on me. Is that smart business?

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[OceanCruise]

Skiier girl, If prices from NY in the summer were less than several years ago, I might agree with you. However, the cost of these cruises have escalated. I know, because I cruise every summer. A price for a Junior suite on the Vogager is $2499 per person- not exactly cheap. Even the insides start at $1300 during this time period.

[tlmlb]

Mass market equals a homogeneous product, and face it most lines offer just about the same thing nowadays. Therefore the product becomes a commodity, which basically means different lines can only compete on price rather than product differences. When competing on price there is more pressure to find other sources of revenue. Unless RCCL differentiates their brand they can only compete this way.

They are trying to differentiate the Celebrity brand and if they are successful there you may see them make significant changes to RCCL. But for now, its nickel and diming.

If you don't want this nickel and diming then you have to go to a niche or luxury line that is not competing on price alone.

[xpcdoojk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PARNAMI:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark_K:
PARNAMI,

And in constant dollars, a suite in those days on RCI cost more than what a suite on Radisson or Silversea does today, which is where you should go if you want the same experience (and same relative cost) that you used to get on RCI.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the problem..I'm not seeking a suite. Nor am I willing to spend 2000 dollars or more per person just to go around in circles in the Caribbean. I'm willing to pay subtantially more than what, currently, is being charged...just not twice as much.

How much per person do you really think RCI is making from all of the petty charges? 50 bucks? 100? It can't be much more than that. I'm willing to pay 200 pp more...just to get rid of them! From their standpoint..that should be viewed as a bargain. Lacking that, I'll simply return to booking the least expensive, tiniest cabin I can find..and paying for NOTHING in addition! I still get the concierge and all the other goodies that go with diamond membership. I'll probably even qualify for double diamond and all those added benefits by the time they implememnt it. RCI, on the other hands...barely breaks even on me. Is that smart business?

QUOTE]

No your solution is for them to add $200 to every single person on a cruise just so we won't be nickel and dimed for a $3.95 hamburger charge. Have you ever thought to run for congress you seem well qualified to spend other people's money with no regard to individual choice!!!! [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

jc

Keep talking, you keep making my points! Please. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Mark_K]

PARNAMI,

The market has changed, much like it has in many areas, and continues to do so. Longing for the good old days, and complaining that things have changed is not very fruitful, or productive. You can no longer get a 120 sq ft cabin and five star dining and service.

You can get a 250-300 sq ft cabin, five star dining and service, for less (relatively) than you used to be able to. You can get a 140-160 sq ft cabin, 2-3 star dining and service, along with some optional extra charges, for way way less (relatively) than you used to be able to.

Those are pretty much your choices if you want to continue cruising. With today's price pressures, an option of paying $200pp more and getting part way back to the way it used to be is not at all likely.

If I were you I would either bite the bullet and move up in quality or 'return to booking the least expensive, tiniest cabin I can find..and paying for NOTHING in addition', make the most of your Diamond perks and not worry about whether RCI makes money off of you.

----------------------------------------------------------

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits" Mark Twain

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's formal night attire, poolside attire, child rearing practices, walk-talkie usage, chair hogging, seat saving, line cutting ..." Mark_K

[Ocean Boy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> At cruise end, your tip was based on three meals a day of excellent service where the waiters REALLY and truly did learn your preferences (if you allowed them to) and you really felt they deserved every bit of whatever you placed in the envelope.

Cabin stewards got to your cabin minutes after you left, and most passengers were surprised to find their cabins made up, mere minutes after having left them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that is exactly what I found on Explorer last year. And though I may be unhappy with certain business practices of RCI's this year I absolutely will give them credit where it is due. And, Explorer was beautifully maintained.

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ocean Boy:

And that is exactly what I found on Explorer last year. And though I may be unhappy with certain business practices of RCI's this year I absolutely will give them credit where it is due. And, Explorer was beautifully maintained.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lucky you! I've not had a good waiter since Regal Princess a few years ago. We did have a great cabin steward on Navigator last year, but he had just transferred from being the Captain's steward....so he had exceptional training and background. (Plus, the Captain told him to take good care of us, which certainly didn't hurt.) BUT....in case you missed it, RCI just elminated a slew of steward positions on all of their ships. This certainly isn't going to help things from a passenger perspective.

Waiters also just suffered major reductions in staffing, so look for changes in that area too, when you next return. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

Things are NOT GOOD with RCI!

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tomcat:
Mass market equals a homogeneous product, and face it most lines offer just about the same thing nowadays. Therefore the product becomes a commodity, .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUT..it shouldn't be!! These lines always were mass market..but they were NOT homogenous..they all had their own identities which a perceptive customer could pick up upon..with little difficulty. They do NOT have to be or operate all alike. Nor, is price the only deciding factor..for many passengers. If it was, Voyager class ships would NOT be attracting the premium fares that they do. Customers have been proven to be willing to pay more for ships offering more of better service/facility. Why should they be nickel and dimed to death in addition to already having paid this premium?

I happen to enjoy the large ships...and for the Caribbean, the larger the better as far as I'm concerned. Why else would I return to do itineraries I've already done countless times in the past!? What I'm asking in return for the premium I'm already paying..is.....not to be nickel and dimed. Period! If it takes a couple hundred dollars more than what, already, is being charged..I'm not too cheap to pay it. I just won't tolerate a "cash register" at every turn!

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[skiiergirl]

Parnami....Where are you getting your info about reduction in staff...stewards and waiters? I have heard rumors but seen nothing factual. Is your info factual and if so where do I find it?

OC...I have never cruised out of NY. We mainly do southern carib. What were the prices 3 or 4 yrs ago (for the same ship /same category, etc.)? If I am remembering correctly this was supposed to be your first RCI cruise....had you priced them 3 or 4 years ago? All we have ever cruised is RCI so they are the only ones I know pricing on.

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by skiiergirl:
Parnami....Where are you getting your info about reduction in staff...stewards and waiters? I have heard rumors but seen nothing factual. Is your info factual and if so where do I find it?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's factual..and you won't find it! You WILL Notice it though!

There are even more staffing reductions in progress...some of them more than a little alarming to me. I'm looking for a few more details and at least one additional source about them before I make them public though.

I know it sounds like I've got a vendetta against RCI. I really don't. In the past, on many occasions, I've been accused of being a shill for them. I've even been sent resumes by prospective workers hoping for an job on board their ships, resumes which I have had forwarded to the appropriate departments. I'm just concerned about the directions this company has taken in recent years...some of then now verging on dangerous.

It appears things are going to get worse before they get better. It remains to be seen by just how much. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] I know one thing..burying my/your head in the sand isn't going to help.

I DID have four spectacular cruises on RCI last year. I hope they aren't the last!

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!

[xpcdoojk]

Saint Parnami,

Can you prove your facts or should we just take it on faith? [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] I know if you say it, then it must be so. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Unfortunately, whatever credibility you thought you once had has been pretty much p*ssed away.

jc

[skiiergirl]

Parnami.....If you had 4 spectacular RCI cruises last year then what are you basing all of your opinions, knowledge, experience, complaints on? How many "bad ones" have you experienced since? Which ones are you booked on this year that you are expecting to be so "poor"? I also had 4 fabulous ones last year and expect my 4 this year to be just as fabulous. If they aren't then I'll admit it. I am a big fan of RCI but agree there are things they could do better. But I will only speak from fact and what I have actually experienced!

[PARNAMI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But I will only speak from fact and what I have actually experienced!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THAT..can be a monumental waste of money AND even more valuable vacation time! That's why research was developed.

[B]Before the advent of nickel and diming, Cruising USED TO BE like being wide awake......and dreaming! [/B]
[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Now..it's just another vacation!!

Check out my cruise site -
<A HREF="http://parnami.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>
http://parnami.tripod.com</A>

Every night after 10 eastern time, I can be found in AOL keyword: "Cruise Cafe". Let's talk CRUISING!!!