Are onboard mutinies justified?

[giftwrapper7]

Life is always full of surprises, but no surprise here. It is hurricane season, period. If I or any member of my family was on that cruise I would want the captain to take all precautions for their safety. I have missed ports, dissapointing, yes. No reason for this mutiny situation. I think it does shows alot about how spoiled society can be. My opinion, how sad.j:o

[foxlakedoug]

I was on the Navigator of the Seas in April, and there was a faux pas mutiny. The Captain handled it very well, under a very difficult situation. Rccl compensated us $150 for the two missed ports. I understand the disappointment, especially on a Transatlantic Cruise, but we got to Barcelona on Time, and it is a great ship. I agree that the solution is not to penalize the Staff. It's not their fault, but when things like this happens, emotions run high and reason gets plowed under.

[Leejnd4]

While I voted No -- cruise passengers need to read the fine print, I think it's crucial when discussing this situation to recognize that it was NOT just the missed/diverted ports that caused the passenger revolt. The captain's attitude and lack of communication was a major contributor. Had the captain been more forthcoming with information, and his comments and behavior more customer-oriented, I highly doubt it ever would have gotten as bad as it did.

 

So my real answer, which wasn't a poll option, is this: Did they have a right to "mutiny" over the lost/diverted ports? NO - this can happen on any cruise, anywhere, not just in hurricane season, and is spelled out in the contract. Did they have a right to "mutiny" over being treated like cash cows whose feelings, and damaged vacations, don't matter? YES! The fact is that they were understandably disappointed, and the captain took the attitude of "Tuff S***, you're a bunch of suckers anyway, we don't care about you or how this impacted your vacations, we gave you a cruise so shut up already."

 

What he SHOULD have done (and anyone who has ever had a job dealing with customers knows this) was given them accurate information on a regular basis, whether or not it was what they wanted to hear or was going to change - just be frank and honest. And then, for pete's sake, show a little concern for these folks! Nobody felt the captain was RESPONSIBLE for the hurricane - but a little bit of empathy for how it was impacting them would have gone a long way...and probably would have eliminated the mutiny entirely.

 

Seriously, this is Customer Service 101, folks. How could the lead person on a vessel of this size not know this?

 

As far as I'm concerned, this is a flawed poll, because it makes the assumption that the mutiny on Miracle was solely about the missed ports. As someone who has a good friend who was on that cruise, I can assure you that it wasn't.

 

On a different (but related) note, the pax who removed their tips deserve to be keel-hauled.

[My2Kitties]

no mutiny...and never withhold gratuities...

what if you were at a resort on the coast with a hurricane coming at you? DUH! will you get a refund if you can't go to the pool because of a storm?

[cab519]

Meeting for those going beyond constructive complaints and who are disrupting ships safe operation:

• 5pm - 6pm Meet in Buffet, eat, gripe, eat, complain, eat, threaten to sue (several times), strike fear in other passengers who accept that safety is #1, eat more. Eat lots, it will be a while.
  
• 6pm - 7PM Continue meeting on the "MV Bitch and Moan", one of those nice Coloured boats attached to the side of the promenade deck.
  
• 7pm onwards - enjoy a nice scenic boat ride through the hurricane to your original port of call (GPS supplied). At least you will only have to row half the way, the wind will blow you the other half.

All joking aside, in these situations, the crew MUST communicate - in person, not PA, Patters, etc., what is happening and why. 90%-95% will understand. For the other 5% . . . .

[JeanieRich]

I was on a ship that changed course to avoid bad weather. The staff including the Captain told the passengers as little as possible leaving us to imagine the worst. We are adults, we can handle the news of the situation but they kept us in the dark and that's not right.

 

You are missing the point entirely. Most of the dissent was because of the lack of communication from Carnival and the Captain and his staff. Carnival did nothing to ease the tension and in fact the Captain made sarcastic and infalmmatory remarks to the passengers. I was horrified at the behavior of the rabble rousers and the "lawyer" but I must admit that the Captain bears some of the blame in this mess. It appears as if the Miracle was the odd man out when it came to alternative ports. Other ships went to Key West and Bermuda but the Miracle either couldn't because of the propulsion problem or chose not --either way the cruise was certainly under a cloud agter that. The atmosphere on the ship was terrible and at times frightening.

[peterc6]

There is no such vessel as the SS France. SS denotes State Ship of the US Navy. The France was NEVER an American ship.

 

However, I agree with your opinion of the "Mutiny". To me you go with the flow.

 

Peter

[dqualude]

I've been on cruises that tried to outrun the storm, it was pretty scarry in fact on Royal Caribbean we actually jumped from the tender into the boat when the waves were just right :p

On Princess we were refunded when we couldn't attend the Cayman Islands. The Cruise lines are there to keep you safe not necessarily happy....thats in the beholder!

[sailorgranny]

Of course no traveler wants to be on a mutinous ship and trust their cruise line to be able to handle unexpected situations so that such turmoil doesn't get whipped up. I was hoping for a relaxing cruise, not The Jerry Springer Show.

 

All the Carnival Miracle passengers wanted was a clear explanation of why they were being sent to a revised port simultaneous with The National Weather Center prediction of that to be tropical storm central.

 

The Miracle announced revision to Nassau then put The National Weather Center map on display in the lobby, clearly indicating that. Anyone would inquire why they were being diverted to what was anticipated as the storm on the port day!

 

That was exactly what happened. Nassau could not be visited. By then we were left with Freeport and a hustle back northwards only announced late afternoon the day prior.

 

We are under the impression Carnival then lost time securing tropical ports that might have worked out. Maybe they did genuinely try this or that and it was impossible. So communicating that would have been best to quench the unrest.

 

The wrong focus on this has been a shift to "mutiny issue" and that is a lot of unnecessary drama as I am sure readers think the ship was in a state of raging, near dagger wielding cruisers. I was on the boat, never saw the "mutiny", but did personally experience a frustrating lack of communication from Carnival.

 

Do know that some involved in fueling are alluding to the fact that Carnival was also conscious of economizing on fuel costs and so may have short changed this cruise to use less fuel that the original itinerary would have used as another decisive factor in re vamping. Who Knows.

[kissonthelips2]

When you cruise with any line, your life and the lives of others rest in the hands of the Captain. I myself perfer to believe he has his job because he is knowledgeable, skilled, and makes the best decision even when the outcome may not be the most popular. KUDOS Cappy!! ;) YOU RULE and I will place my safety and the safety of my family in your very capable hands any time. Thank you for being the best!

Everyone that cruises on Miracle .. remember what was stated about holding out on the staff's gratuities.. drop a little extra in the bucket next cruise for these folks.. they are the people that make our "Great Times on Board and at Port - Grrreat!!"

Last thought.. when served Lemons.. put them in your margarita's!! - New drink I think!! Hurricane Margarita! Have a good time, laugh, and celebrate! If you do that, you won't ever have a bad cruise - or a need to mutiny - even in hurricane season!!

[inSANEmom]

In Oct 2006 my DH and I were on a plane heading for our cruise in Hawaii when we found out that there had been a major earthquake in the islands. We got stuck in LA along with hundreds of other people trying to get to their ship on time. Fortunately we were flying out a day early so there was some leeway to work it all out. Without going into the whole long drawn out story of our 11 hour trip turning into 30 hours of travel time, cancelled flights, lost luggage and more, I will simply say in the end, we made it to the ship in time.

 

There were people at the airport screaming (no exageration) that they HAD TO GET TO HAWAII! It was CRITICAL they make it to their ship on time. Grown adults acting like babies over a VACATION!

 

What they didn't stop to think about, and what these people on the ships that have to divert because of a hurricane don't think about, is that they are on VACATION. These natural disasters are DISASTERS to the people who live on these islands. This is their LIVES not just a week of fun and merriment that is potentially being ruined.

 

Go ahead and be disappointed. I would have been very sad to have missed my cruise in Hawaii but it was a VACATION.

 

Before a complaint is made about how mad you are, how "unfairly" you are being treated, stop and think about the people who are hunkered down - some in ramshakle homes - braving the elements, while you sit by the pool drinking mojitos on your cruise ship that is in the "wrong" place.

[littlebluebook]

as lots of other people have said 'what do you expect in hurricane season?' i would never book a cruise there, just because of the different factors.

 

But on a normal cruise, i would get really upset if we couldn't say dock in Egypt for some reason, because a lot of people base their cruise around the ports it goes too. I wouldn't take my tips away (terrible thing to do, what did the crew do to you?!) but I would definately write a letter of complaint and speak to someone about it.

 

a mutiny over a few missed ports, in HURRICANE SEASON so pathetic!

[FinelyCruising]

It's a crazy world and people are just out of control. Many know what cruising in Hurricane season is all about. So in the end, where did it get any of them? Nowhere.

[Leejnd4]

When you cruise with any line, your life and the lives of others rest in the hands of the Captain. I myself perfer to believe he has his job because he is knowledgeable, skilled, and makes the best decision even when the outcome may not be the most popular. KUDOS Cappy!! ;) YOU RULE and I will place my safety and the safety of my family in your very capable hands any time. Thank you for being the best!

 

It's great that you have such confidence in the Captain, but...I just gotta ask, when the dude can't even follow basic Customer Service practices, it's kinda hard to have such total confidence in his overall competence.

 

Last thought.. when served Lemons.. put them in your margarita's!! - New drink I think!! Hurricane Margarita! Have a good time, laugh, and celebrate! If you do that, you won't ever have a bad cruise - or a need to mutiny - even in hurricane season!!

 

Oookay...and would you feel that way if YOU were not given any information about where you were going, and what little you WERE given was conflicting or clearly wrong, and in the meantime you were being told that you were a sucker and your feelings don't matter?

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why so many are failing to see the REAL issue that occurred on Miracle, that contributed to the mutiny: abyssmal behavior by the Captain. Look, cruises have been dropping and diverting ports in hurricane season for decades - how often has a passenger revolt happened? Doesn't anybody wonder what was different about THIS cruise that caused it to happen?

 

It's been stated repeatedly by those who were on the ship, and their friends/family on this board: it was the Captain's inexcusable behavior.

[jimswims]

The contract is clear, the TA's and the cruise lines that passengers book their vacation are clear, Read the agreement and the contract.

 

I was on the Miracle on 8-13-8/21/2008 and thought that Tropical Storm Fay might be a problem for us. I drove from Boston to NYC for the cruise and wondered whether I would be visiting Boston later in the week on my cruise to Canada if this storm got bad. We packed some jackets just in case. We were fortunate to go to the ports that we planned and had great weather and calm seas.

[ShirleyK]

They need to read the fine print. Maybe the print should be larger and they have to sign a legal statement before a cruise in acknowledgment.

 

Good post. Here is a quote from the Cruise terms agreement that we all have to sign as part of our cruise documents before boarding. Please see the part I have highlighted in red. I would hate to think that we are among a minority of passengers read what they sign or to which they agree electronically if the documents are completed online. :)

"2. NATURE OF CRUISE AND GUEST’S OBLIGATIONS

(a) The Guest admits a full understanding of the character of the Vessel and assumes all risks incident to travel and transportation and handling of Guests and cargo. The Vessel may or may not carry a ship’s physician or other medical personnel at the election of Carnival. While at sea or in port the availability of medical care may be limited or delayed. Guest acknowledges that all or part of their voyage may be in areas where medical care and evacuation may not be available. Guest agrees to indemnify and reimburse Carnival in the event Carnival elects to advance the cost of emergency medical care, including medical care provided ashore as well as transportation and/or lodging in connection therewith.

(b) Carnival’s vessels visit numerous ports in a number of countries. Guests assume responsibility for their own safety and Carnival cannot guarantee Guest’s safety at any time. The United States Department of State, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other governmental and tourist organizations regularly issue advisories and warnings to travelers and Carnival strongly recommends Guests obtain and consider such information when making travel decisions. Carnival assumes no responsibility for gathering said information. The Guest acknowledges that the cruise may be booked in a location that is susceptible to severe weather systems, including but not limited to, hurricanes, tropical storms and depressions, and that Carnival reserves the right to alter the ship’s course, ports of call, itinerary, activity and shore excursions to avoid such weather systems and insure the comfort and safety of the Guest and crew."

[tompands]

On our second cruise we decided to take our family (7 people total). We had such a great time on the first cruise we wanted to share the experience with them. Of course we didn't stop to think of hurricanes being a problem when we booked the family vacation; we just wanted to squeeze in a cruise before they went back to school. There was a hurricane forcasted and our itinerary was changed. Get this..we went to the same places my husband and I had gone to just months before. We made the best of it and had a great time with our children. When we returned home we found that the hurricane had hit Calica on the day we were suppose to be there. I thank Carnival for there good judgement and putting the safety of it's passengers first. Carnival cruises all year long there are plenty of cruises that don't occur during hurricane season. I would recommend better planning on people who don't deal well with change. If my husband had been on that ship he would have thrown the lawyer over board and not thought twice about it!! He doesn't like lawyers anyway. We got home and booked the cruise we were suppose to take in August, in October. The people on the islands said the hurricane did some terrible damage. I for one was glad not to have been there. So for those who don't mind putting themselves in the midst of a hurricane, I would suggest renting a sail boat and going by yourself....and take that lawyer with you. The rest of us will adjust to the change, and make the best of the situation.

[Fredr]

Hello,

 

It takes years of experience to become a Captain and who is a lawyer to question the experience and judgment of a Captain. And especially when the Captain is sailing away from danger, and doing his best to provide a nice cruise for his passengers.

 

Did that lawyer see the pictures of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina had leveled these areas causing a very high number of deaths, and billions of dollars of damages.

 

It might be too much to ask, but maybe Carnival Cruise Lines and or the Captain should haul the lawyer into court and before his State Bar Association, for compensation and to see if in fact he is fit to practice law in that State.

 

After 24 cruises and two more coming up, it is the cruise itself that make a cruise so much fun and the ports really are becoming (to me) somewhat secondary.

[01Sweetpea]

At what point do you put your emotions aside and start looking at the situation with COMMON SENSE?

 

It's a hurricane people....I doubt all those causing problems would want to be crusing in the middle of one. The captain did what he needed to do to keep the passengers safe.

 

We were caught in the tail end of Hurricane Dennis, we had a rocky ride, but it was manageable. I cannot image what it must be like to be in the middle of one.

[mom2tcdx2]

I realize some were upset with the tone or way the captain vocalized things, however I don't think he really needed to justify his or Carnival's decision to any of the passengers. You may be disappointed in the changes in ports but really that is the chance you take when you travel in hurricane season.

[Jaycue52]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Ms. Brown. If you cruise during hurricane season, you better be prepared for itinerary changes. We cruised on the Westerdam last October/November, and missed two of our ports due to a hurricane. We were refunded all monies for our shore excursions and were also given free champagne a couple of nights. As Mr. Heald hinted, would you rather make the port (and slog around the island in howling winds and rains), or would you prefer to stay alive? Could you imagine the uproar if Carnival steamed full speed ahead into the storm, and some of the passengers had died? What an uproar. And to penalize the hard-working crew members for an act of God? Please!

[PalmBeachMom]

If I were CCL, I would never permit any of those "mutinous" passengers to ever sail on its ships again. With a tropical storm in the area, what on earth did they expect the captain to do?

As for the lawyer, leading the charge, Carnival should send his name to the Bar Association.......

[FlyingPhotog]

When a commercial plane flight is disrupted by passengers, the disruptees (?) are arrested on arrival and charged with a felony for interfering with a flight crew. The consequences should be the same for disrupting a cruise.

[garycarla]

If I was on that cruise, I would SUE the lawyer for causing so much stress and discomfort. He should be blasted my his States Law Board or whatever they call it. He distracted the Captain from his assigned duties and was close to inciting a riot.

 

What a jerk!

[RsrchPro]

We were on Royal Caribbean's Sovereign of the Sea last Monday (September 1 through Friday, September 5). While boarding staff told us we were going to Nassau and Key West, instead of Nassau and RCCL's private Island, Coco Cay.

Most of the passengers were perfectly happy with the substitution, knowing Coca Cay was a tender port, and iffy when the seas are only slightly rough.

 

Throughout the cruise we were kept well informed about the storm and any potential changes to our itinerary. Royal Caribbean's crew and other staff were their usual friendly and open and informative selves.

 

They did a wonderful job of avoiding any stormy weather and we didn't even it any rain till we were docking in Port Canaveral at the end of the trip.

 

I cannot imagine booking a cruise during Hurricane season and not being prepared for changes to the itinerary. Bravo to Royal Caribbean for making intelligent choices.