Sorry. It's our first cruise. We didn't know the etiquette...

[kornkob]

I do hope you have your flameproof undies on. :eek::D

 

Meh. If parents are going to get in an uproar about the other side of the same coin, then they are probably part of the problem.

[Chell-y-Bell]

Right. Because it is never the mother in this scenario who is being insensitive and unaware of how her volume, tone and/or behavior are impacting those around them.

 

I do tend to agree with this part of your argument. The only time I get upset or make a comment about a meltdown is when the parent reacts poorly to it. Smacking the child, yanking on their arm, yelling at them, etc.

 

However, meltdowns are inevitable and people should not get upset with the parent unless they are clearly parenting poorly. I don't know if I'd ever ask them if they need help, but holding a door open seems very kind.

[SuperLarz]

Right. Because it is never the mother in this scenario who is being insensitive and unaware of how her volume, tone and/or behavior are impacting those around them. It is never some self involved mommy who has decided that their child's 'meltdown' is an adequate reason to shriek at their child or barge through groups of others without regard for the activities of those around them.

 

Nor has a mother ignored the signs of an impending 'meltdown' (or even encouraged it by keeping the kiddos active till they are too tired to do anything BUT melt down) for her own selfish interests.

 

Because of course a mother under the stress of a 'melting down' child has never been known to focus on her small world or be overly sensitive to comments and glances of those around her.

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps mommies need to consider that the commentary or looks aren't any more a personal attack than their own behavior is.

 

 

(And heaven forbid we mention the father in all of this)

 

 

Wow. Kornkob. My first question is obvious... do YOU have children?????

 

I'm not going to "flame" here... you are entitled to your opinion. And yes, there are a lot of crappy parents out there who behave VERY badly when dealing with their children...

 

However... the mother who posted the original comment stated clearly that it is her intent to LEAVE a public area when her child is "melting down" and deal with the situation in a private manner. This is very admirable behavior! And while sometimes parents are selfish and ignore the "signs" of an impending tantrum, SOMETIMES your kid has been being a little stink all day and you (as a parent) have been patient and calm for hours, and the last straw happens at the dinner table when the little darling decides to throw his peas at the next table.

 

Sometimes kids are just bratty. I know, I have three, and thank the Lord they are all now teenagers and I haven't killed or seriously maimed any of them. (that is sarcasm... in case you are wondering..)

 

Parents need to be given a little grace. And a kind look, an open door, or a gentle "Hang in there, Mom" goes a long ways!

 

If the mom is being rotten... shame on her, and give a kind smile to the kid.

 

But please try to realize that MOST moms don't want to inconvenience the other passengers.

[SuperLarz]

Meh. If parents are going to get in an uproar about the other side of the same coin, then they are probably part of the problem.

 

Or they are just responding to one of those insensitive, uneducated, pompous comments made by someone who has never walked a mile in their shoes.

 

Hmmmm... could it be that???

[kornkob]

I'm not going to "flame" here... you are entitled to your opinion. And yes, there are a lot of crappy parents out there who behave VERY badly when dealing with their children...

 

There are also a lot of good parents who, under stress, fail to realize how significantly their behavior is impacting those around them--- largely because when people are under stress they tend to get 'tunnel vision'.

 

 

The key element is this: those 'dirty looks' from the people around the meltdown aren't any more inappropriate than the meltdown itself. Just as people can be called upon to be a little compassionate for the person who is struggling with their kid, the parent needs be considerate as well and realize that their family's actions and behaviors are, in fact, having a negative impact on people around them-- thus their annoyance is usually justified--- hence the dirty looks.

 

Meltdowns do happen--- and they are annoying for everyone involved.

[SuperLarz]

There are also a lot of good parents who, under stress, fail to realize how significantly their behavior is impacting those around them--- largely because when people are under stress they tend to get 'tunnel vision'.

 

 

The key element is this: those 'dirty looks' from the people around the meltdown aren't any more inappropriate than the meltdown itself. Just as people can be called upon to be a little compassionate for the person who is struggling with their kid, the parent needs be considerate as well and realize that their family's actions and behaviors are, in fact, having a negative impact on people around them-- thus their annoyance is usually justified--- hence the dirty looks.

 

Meltdowns do happen--- and they are annoying for everyone involved.

 

I do agree with you that a "meltdown" is unpleasant for everyone around. I also agree that sometimes people under stress can get "tunnel vision" and not be aware how their "situation" is affecting others. I, too, have seen moms in Target or the grocery store yelling at their kid or yanking them by the arm. And I have seen temper tantrums in restaurants and crying babies/toddlers on airplanes.

Because of these things, my husband and I usually try to go to "adults-only" resorts when we vacation. I figure, if I'm not bringing my own kids, I don't want to have to listen to other people's kids either.

 

However... the reason I was frustrated with your original comments, was because of how you spoke to the mom who left the original post about "meltdowns". This is a thread dedicated to cruise etiquette, and her request was for passengers to not be rude if/when she is trying to quickly and discreetly remove her child from a situation where they are "melting down".

 

I felt like your response to her was snide, and automatically assumed that the meltdown in question was her fault. You could have addressed your point (about parents being aware of their actions are making the problem worse) in a way that wasn't sarcastic or assuming to the OP.

 

We all need to remember that kindness and consideration goes a long way. If each person focuses on THEIR OWN actions, (whether it be the mom with the bratty kid, or the passer-by who is wanting to throw dirty looks) the cruise ship vacation will be much more enjoyable for everyone!! I can't control anyone else's behavior but my own. And I can try to be patient, kind, and understanding during a difficult situation... which may just be the catalyst that turns the situation around.

[kornkob]

You're right-- my sarcasm was a little heavy handed.

 

I was just irritated by the notion that people should not give a mommy 'dirty looks' when their children were having a meltdown. When someone is annoying, for whatever reason, they should expect people to look around, annoyed, to see what the source of the annoyance is.

 

And my reply was not targeted specifically at her --- she suggested that all mommies be given consideration for meltdowns and I suggested several ways that parents cause or make worse the situation.

[SuperLarz]

You're right-- my sarcasm was a little heavy handed.

 

I was just irritated by the notion that people should not give a mommy 'dirty looks' when their children were having a meltdown. When someone is annoying, for whatever reason, they should expect people to look around, annoyed, to see what the source of the annoyance is.

 

And my reply was not targeted specifically at her --- she suggested that all mommies be given consideration for meltdowns and I suggested several ways that parents cause or make worse the situation.

 

Done! I think we can shake hands now. ;)

 

However, this topic does raise one question in my mind...

Why are there no "adults only" cruises?? We our going on our first cruise in Feb., and I searched for an adults-only venue (again, only because I'm not bringing my own kids along) but I couldn't find ANY that offer that. Has anyone every been on one or heard of one??

 

Of course, my husband's concern was that if we DID find an adults-only cruise, it would be full of "swingers" :eek: LOL

[kornkob]

Good question. It probably boils down to a marketing decision. For some reason, some folks take it as a personal affront when an organization does anything perceived as not 'family friendly' --- as though excluding families somehow is a personal attack on their loved ones.

 

I can't imagine that a cruise line would want to have to deal with the PR generated if they were to do such a thing.

 

As for 'swingers'--- most of the ones I've met have been pretty cool people. the ration of 'creepy/a$$hole' types to interesting people seems pretty consistent with that of the 'normal' population.

[ChrissyNZ]

Glad to see you live to post another day kornkob. :D:D I do agree with most of what you have said. What gets right up my nose is the whiny, plaintive voice... "Stop that... this is your last warning..." followed by "Stop that... I don't want to have to tell you again..." SuperLarz, you and Chell got it spot on. It is bad parenting that annoys people the most. :):)

[Smokeyham]

What a great thread! Great ideas suggested here.....

 

I'd like to add some suggestions for the dining room.

 

If you're seated at a table with other people, be at least courteous; introduce yourself, and have a little conversation with your fellow diners.

 

If you don't want to have to talk with other people, which is fine as well, then try to arrange a table just for your group, or the person you're travelling with.

 

On the flip side, don't dominate the conversation, but be sensitve to other people's feelings. You don't need to come out with strident remarks about your views on guns, gay marriage, or other hot button issues.

[jen1250]

Kornkob, I assume you don't have kids, never had kids, and hopefully never will for if you do, you are in for a rude awakening LOL.

I am not going to yell at you for making your rude comments in ironically a subject about manners lol. I will however stick up for myself and let you know I am a fantastic mother and very courteous of others around me. My kids have wonderful manners taught by myself, and their school but just as most adults, kids have meltdowns and I bet you 1000 dollars you or anyone else can tell me that thier kids NEVER had a meltdown. IF someone tells me that, I know they are lying and it just makes me grin.

When the first signs of a meltdown come on I immediatly take action. I am the mom who leaves a whole cart of groceries in the store and walk out when my kids act up. I get up from dinner and take the kids outside or away from the situation, it is called respect.

I want to also stick up for the parents you pointed out who lose it as well and yell at their kids....parents have bad days too and sometimes they lose it.

Do I think there are parents out there who don't care and let their kids run crazy, scream and yell and hit their kids in public? Oh yea! I see it all the time and it drives me crazy!

I just ask you to please not attack me beause I happen to post to help a mom out. I guess it just bothers me when people don't help a mom or dad with their hands full with kids and at their wits end. When my daughter was just an infant I was walking in to Wal Mart with her in her car seat. As I was approacing the door, I slipped and fell on ice and up in the air my daughter went. Luckily the way she fell she was unharmed, but people didn't even stop to see if I was ok, they either laughed, rolled their eyes, or literally walked over me. I got myself up and went home with no help, nothing....so yes, I am a little sensitive when it comes to rude people who don't give a parent the benefit of the doubt.

[gechap]

I just read this whole thread and there were some very pertinent points to be made. It did seem that every once and a while the subject seemed to sway off course a little.

 

I think it all comes down to a famous qoute that I read a long time ago, that says: "The most important things I have learned about life, I learned about in kindergarten" Meaning courtiousness, cleanliness and sharing our toys.

 

Have a GREAT cruise you all, with many lasting memories!

 

Gary

[plk40atmc]

We are going on our first cruise in May. We are not big on sitting down and eating at an exact time. We were only planning on eating in the dining room a few times. Is this considered rude to the other people at our table? And if we will not be there, who do we let know so that they don't make our whole table wait for us?

[CowPrincess]

We are not big on sitting down and eating at an exact time.

 

If your cruiseline offers "freestyle" or "anytime" or "as you wish" dining (Where you don't have to show up every night at a specific time and be seated at the same table), I'd suggest that you investigate that, and release the seats you have for "fixed" time dining. The fixed time seats are very desirable, and many people who want them can't get them. So if you have an alternative, it might be good karma to let someone else have the fixed dining time :)

[alphakitty]

while I do understand how certain actions can be misunderstood as rude...I think not having one person save 6 seats in a theatre or taking non potty trained junior into the pool are things that aren't just not ok on cruise ships, they are general things that shouldn't be done on land...if it were in a movie theatre at the the mall would one person saving 6 seats be less annoying?

 

 

How about sending your children to lay across the seats to save them. :rolleyes: Yes, I actually saw this. To top it all off, after choosing seats directly behind the kids, mom and dad came along about 10 minutes into the show no less and congratulated the kids on how well they'd done saving the whole front row of seats. :eek:

[alphakitty]

the thing that irked me the most was the lifts. People using them for only one flight, when htey looked fit enough to use the stairs ( I don;t do stairs well ) & then those that go into a trance when in the lifts, so when they reach their desired floor, they are oblivious to the fact & don't get off till the new people get on. I understand its a vacation, but day dreaming when on a public lift irritates me.

 

Please don't judge me for taking the elevator (lift) one flight. I may look well enough for those stairs, but my arthritic knees are sometimes just not up for the trip.

 

You just can't tell by looking at someone how fit they may or may not be.

[kornkob]

Please don't judge me for taking the elevator (lift) one flight. I may look well enough for those stairs, but my arthritic knees are sometimes just not up for the trip.

 

You just can't tell by looking at someone how fit they may or may not be.

 

 

Or how well they are: walking up stairs when I've got a splitting headache is painful.

 

Or if they realized it was only one flight--- sometimes you might not realize what floor you are on.

 

You also have to take into account that many people have been TRAINED not to use stairs to go up--- many, if not most, public buildings lock the stairway doors such that if you get into the stairwell you can only get out at the bottom. (for security reasons--- the stairways thus lead out but not into the building so unauthorized persons can't sneak in as easily)

[plk40atmc]

If your cruiseline offers "freestyle" or "anytime" or "as you wish" dining (Where you don't have to show up every night at a specific time and be seated at the same table), I'd suggest that you investigate that, and release the seats you have for "fixed" time dining. The fixed time seats are very desirable, and many people who want them can't get them. So if you have an alternative, it might be good karma to let someone else have the fixed dining time :)

 

Thanks for your reply. Being a first time cruiser I don't understand everything about the dining arrangements. We were able to choose between an early seating or a late seating. I believed this to mean half the ship eats at the early seating and half eats at the late seating? We tend to be the people that will be up at 5 AM waiting for coffee and fall asleep early, but we picked the later dinner seating because we have been told there won't be as many small children at that time.

[CowPrincess]

We were able to choose between an early seating or a late seating.

 

What line or ship are you travelling on? Just curious -- wondering who doesn't have the "flexible time" option -- they may just get some of our business!

[plk40atmc]

What line or ship are you travelling on? Just curious -- wondering who doesn't have the "flexible time" option -- they may just get some of our business!

 

We are going on Royal Caribbean - Enchantment of the Seas in May. I am not sure if they have a flexible time option or not, I don't know how to find out.

[CowPrincess]

Thanks for your quick reply. I just looked at the RC website, and it doesn't look as though they do "flexible" dining in the main dining room. So to answer your original question, it would be appropriate to tell your tablemates if you know you'll not be at dinner the next night. If it is a spur of the moment decision, tell the Maitre D' or assistant MD, and give them your table #. At least, that's what I'd do -- stop by the dining room before our assigned time and tell one of them.

 

One thing my DH (who isn't much into socializing) found is that he absolutely LOVED having dinner time conversations with a fixed group of people on our last cruise. So possibly you'll try it and like it :D For him, the enjoyment far outweighed any sense of "having" to be someplace.

 

Enjoy your cruise -- I bet you get hooked on it!

[plk40atmc]

Thanks for your quick reply. I just looked at the RC website, and it doesn't look as though they do "flexible" dining in the main dining room. So to answer your original question, it would be appropriate to tell your tablemates if you know you'll not be at dinner the next night. If it is a spur of the moment decision, tell the Maitre D' or assistant MD, and give them your table #. At least, that's what I'd do -- stop by the dining room before our assigned time and tell one of them.

 

One thing my DH (who isn't much into socializing) found is that he absolutely LOVED having dinner time conversations with a fixed group of people on our last cruise. So possibly you'll try it and like it :D For him, the enjoyment far outweighed any sense of "having" to be someplace.

 

Enjoy your cruise -- I bet you get hooked on it![/qu

 

We may very well get hooked on it, I hope we do!

[Smokeyham]

One thing my DH (who isn't much into socializing) found is that he absolutely LOVED having dinner time conversations with a fixed group of people on our last cruise. So possibly you'll try it and like it :D For him, the enjoyment far outweighed any sense of "having" to be someplace.

 

That's great that your husband enjoyed the dinner conversations! I've met some really nice people at dinner as well.

 

I've also had mixed results on ships where there is fixed seating, but also other restaurants. On one ship I turned up and initially sat by myself, at a table which could hold 10 people! .... I quickly joined another group at a table which had more people, and had nice conversations with other people.

 

Bottom line is that I would research what the different dining options are, so you can be sure that you're on a cruise which meets your preferences whether those be for flexibility, or for joining the same group of people every evening at the same time.

 

Happy cruising!

[alphakitty]

Royal does have "My Time Dining" on a few ships. It looks like they are trying it out. Here's a link to the info on Royal Caribbean's web site.

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/contentWithHero.do?pagename=open_seating&topic=email&subTopic=openseat&requestor=arn

 

Enchantment will have this option when you sail in May. :)