Will Someone Sell a Ship?

[jhannah]

Prinsendam ... has a very loyal following ...

Which makes me wonder about something. We really like the Elegant Explorer. Have only sailed her twice, but would love to again. Do you think having this following has kept HAL from more aggressively trying to sell her?

 

And something else: Do other major cruise lines have ships with such loyal followings as HAL has? I think of the most recent Nordam, Nieuw Amsterdam, and Rotterdam V. Almost everyone who sailed those vessels pine to cruise them again as they used to be. I haven't read of other ship lines having such loved vessels as these. Do I just suffer from HAL tunnel vision?

[kyriecat]

And something else: Do other major cruise lines have ships with such loyal followings as HAL has? I think of the most recent Nordam, Nieuw Amsterdam, and Rotterdam V. Almost everyone who sailed those vessels pine to cruise them again as they used to be. I haven't read of other ship lines having such loved vessels as these. Do I just suffer from HAL tunnel vision?

I read on the RC boards about people who really miss Empress of the Seas since she was sold. That was the smallest ship in the RC fleet for several years and did the unique itineraries. I was supposed to have sailed on her last year but RC sold her and canceled my cruise. Now I'll never know if I would miss her too. :(

[Copper10-8]

Which makes me wonder about something. We really like the Elegant Explorer. Have only sailed her twice, but would love to again. Do you think having this following has kept HAL from more aggressively trying to sell her?

 

And something else: Do other major cruise lines have ships with such loyal followings as HAL has? I think of the most recent Nordam and Rotterdam V. Almost everyone who sailed those vessels pine to cruise them again as they used to be. I haven't read of other ship lines having such loved vessels as these. Do I just suffer from HAL tunnel vision?

 

If Prinsendam continues to sell with good pax numbers, she does anyway on her exotic cruises, yes, pretty sure that will make Seattle think twice about sellling her.

The Queens from Cunard always have a loyal following, especially QE 2, who had many of her fans shedding tears in New York City harbor on her very last visit. The Crystal's and smaller ships like Christpher Columbus, Paul Gauguin, have a pretty loyal following and there are probably more that I'm forgetting

[RedmondCruiser]

Though ships have loyal followings the passengers are not the ones who dictate what ships are sold and which ones are to survive. That distinction goes to the faceless beancounters at 300 Elliott Ave. Revenue vs. cost of operation will decide who survives. Those articles that state the the cruise industry is imune to the current economic crisis are whistling through the grave yard.

[jhannah]

The Queens from Cunard always have a loyal following, especially QE 2 ...

Duh! Of course. I should have thought about this one especially.

[Krazy Kruizers]

 

 

As far as HAL, I don't believe they are going to be spending all that money on upgrading the four Esses and the one Rrrrrrr to then turnaround and sell them. Besides Prinsendam, those four "S" class ships are the oldest in the fleet. After Rotterdam, it's Volendam (1999), Zaandam (2000), and Amsterdam (2000) so we're talking ten and nine years which is still young in cruise ship years.

 

The old lady in the fleet is Prinsendam which as Royal Viking Sun appeared on the scene in 1988. She has been refurbished/refitted more than once. She has a very loyal following but if the right deal came along you better believe that HAL would snap it up. Although not sisters, Prinsendam's former Royal Viking stablemates (Sea, now Albatross for German tour operator Phoenix Seereisen and Star and Sky, both sailing for British line Fred Olsen as Black Prince and Boudicca) are still going strong. I've got a feeling that both Phoenix and Fred Olsen would be more than happy to scoop up Prinsendam if they opportunity presented itself.

 

I agree with you!!

[Druke I]

Many Princess regulars regret that the former Royal Princess was transferred to P&O (UK). She is now sailing as their Artemis.

[TCF]

Local news here in Vancouver today ran a story that Royal Caribbean has cancelled one ship to Alaska on the Vancouver North Inside Passage run in 2010.

The reason RC has given is a head tax that Alaska has put on cruise lines is making it just too expensive for them to cruise this itinerary. I think that can be interpreted as, "we can't pass the tax on to the passengers and still be competitive in the Alaska market!" The line will continue to have two ships in the Alaska market in 2010.

I find this so surprising because the Alaska cruise are among the most popular itineraries in the world....if they can't make money going to Alaska then things are bad.

[bishop84]

If Prinsendam continues to sell with good pax numbers, she does anyway on her exotic cruises, yes, pretty sure that will make Seattle think twice about sellling her.

 

The Queens from Cunard always have a loyal following, especially QE 2, who had many of her fans shedding tears in New York City harbor on her very last visit. The Crystal's and smaller ships like Christpher Columbus, Paul Gauguin, have a pretty loyal following and there are probably more that I'm forgetting

 

Apparently the revenue per passenger day on the Prinsendam is the highest in the HAL fleet. If that is correct I doubt that they would sell her. There have been reports that several lines including Swan Hellenic, a former P&O/Carnival UK brand, have wanted to buy her in the recent past.

[FireIce0010]

This appeared on another thread:

 

I got to thinking that when this happens, airlines will start by cutting service routes then will sell off some airplanes; hotels cut back services and are eventually shuttered; restaurant chains close many of their outlets; stores close some of their locations.

 

It was announced that 50,000 jobs were lost through layoffs just yesterday ... one day. That does not bode well for an economy that is already pretty much in the tank.

 

So the question is ... will things drag down far enough in the cruise business where a cruise line will retire/sell off a ship or two? If so, who will be first? How long do you think it will take?

 

I think that it will be hard to find a buyer at this time who can get financing. More likely to see cruise lines mothball some ships until things pick back up.

[bodget]

p + o have a good business plan in that they do the round the world jaunts but also sell packages for part of the trip in different segments to maintain flexibility

[jhannah]

I think that can be interpreted as, "we can't pass the tax on to the passengers and still be competitive in the Alaska market!" The line will continue to have two ships in the Alaska market in 2010.

They can and do pass the taxes on. Those taxes are outrageous, but I don't see that as the problem. Alaska remains a hot ticket for cruises. HAL will have more than half her fleet there this coming season. This type of commitment seems to indicate they will make some good money up there.

 

Maybe the issue is that RCI doesn't offer a profitable Alaska product. Maybe?

[Atomica]

Maybe the issue is that RCI doesn't offer a profitable Alaska product. Maybe?

 

Maybe. I wondered if by only having two ships in Alaska - one in Vancouver, one in Seattle, that it would allow RCI to keep prices moderately high (supply and demand.)

 

That, or perhaps they have something unique up their sleeve for the Serenade...

 

With the exception of the Maasdam's Canada/New England run, if you want to sail HAL during the summer months, you have to go to a) Europe or b) Alaska. The Bermuda cruises the Veendam will do in 2010 will help to add a little more variety. Maybe RCI is just trying to diversify their itineraries as much as possible?

[mamaofami]

Instead of selling a ship or two, couldn't HAL or the other lines just put the ship in dry dock( or whatever you call it) and allow the other ships to sail with more passengers since there would be fewer beds to fill? Then when the economy picks up, and it will in a few years, the ships would be ready to sail again.

[Copper10-8]

Instead of selling a ship or two, couldn't HAL or the other lines just put the ship in dry dock( or whatever you call it) and allow the other ships to sail with more passengers since there would be fewer beds to fill? Then when the economy picks up, and it will in a few years, the ships would be ready to sail again.

 

It doesn't involve a dry-dock;) and it's called the ship being "laid up." Basically, they find a port that is willing and able and tie her up at some infrequently used berth for a determined or undetermined time period. The ports of Piraeus and Eleusis, Greece are famous for having ships laid up, some short, some long term. There is a cost involved plus if the plan is to return the ship to service, it has to be kept up mechanically and appearance (interior and exterior) wise!

[Twickenham]

The problem with RCL is they have massive capacity. Even with only 2 ships in Alaska, they have alot of berths to sell. Plus, they've probably taken on alot of debt to build Oasis. And the large size of their ships means they have limited flexibility when deploying their fleet - redeploying a Voyager-class ship from the Caribbean to the West Coast, for instance, involves either going around the horn or doing a Europe/Asia season of cruises - rather than a nice, 2-week Panama Canal repo.

 

Laying up ships costs money, with no revenue being generated by them. Even breaking even, a cruising ship is less expensive than a laid-up one.

 

I might not like Carnival's style, but I do think they've been quite shrewd from a business point of view - all of their lines' new ships are large enough to have all the bells and whistles, but not so big as to be impossible to fill in tough times.

[sail7seas]

It doesn't involve a dry-dock;) and it's called the ship being "laid up." Basically, they find a port that is willing and able and tie her up at some infrequently used berth for a determined or undetermined time period. The ports of Piraeus and Eleusis, Greece are famous for having ships laid up, some short, some long term. There is a cost involved plus if the plan is to return the ship to service, it has to be kept up mechanically and appearance (interior and exterior) wise!

 

There's also the matter of her crew. :(

Just 'pink slip' them?? :eek:

[Copper10-8]

There's also the matter of her crew. :(

Just 'pink slip' them?? :eek:

 

Yeah, that's not a good story!

[mamaofami]

There's also the matter of her crew. :(

Just 'pink slip' them?? :eek:

 

I am one of the last people who would want to see any of the HAL fabulous crew get laid off. (Or anyone, for that matter). But, when reading reports of less crew being on board the ships that are sailing now, I wonder what has happened to this crew?

[sail7seas]

If it is true crew count is down and I don't know that to be true, it is possible the numbers reduced by normal attrition. Some retired, some voluntarily changed type of work, some went to other cruise lines etc

 

 

[marle7]

Yeah, that's not a good story!

 

Maybe they could employ them on other ships and bring their service levels back up. So back to 1 cabin steward per whatever number of cabins etc they used to have.

[sail7seas]

Maybe they could employ them on other ships and bring their service levels back up. So back to 1 cabin steward per whatever number of cabins etc they used to have.

 

 

I don't think service levels have dropped.

 

We've been sailing HAL ships A LOT of cruises for many years and we are enjoying the same service today we've always enjoyed. Without question, the stewards are working hard but they are accomplishing their goal IMO.......... great service.

[marle7]

I don't think service levels have dropped.

 

We've been sailing HAL ships A LOT of cruises for many years and we are enjoying the same service today we've always enjoyed. Without question, the stewards are working hard but they are accomplishing their goal IMO.......... great service.

 

Very glad that you haven't experienced it, but there are plenty of reviews lately where other experienced cruisers with HAL say it has. I'm just saying, HAL could always find work for their employees on other ships if they needed to put away a ship for a while or sell one.

[sail7seas]

IF it came to it, the whole point of 'putting away a ship' would be to save money. Adding crew to other ships would cut the savings.

 

I certainly hope it doesn't come to them 'mothballing' any ships or reducing crew size either.

 

Obviously, I can't speak for anyone but us but we still feel we are getting great service on all our HAL cruises.

 

 

 

[Ship's Wake]

Another option is chartering a ship or two for a period of time, such as for universities doing a semester at sea.

See http://www.semesteratsea.org/academic-life/overview/ as an example.

 

You can almost bet that if another natural disaster occurs (like Hurricane Katrina) the cruise lines will be eager to charter a ship or two to house relief workers or thoise affected by the storm.

 

Joe