LMHCruise Posted February 8, 2009 Author #76 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Call me crazy, but I like things to be included, with airlines and cruise ships. I would rather pay $350 for my airline ticket than $325 and get charged to check my luggage, charged for my drink, charged for a peanut, etc. Maybe I won't have luggage that trip, or won't want a drink, but the option was there and maybe i'll use it next time. To me, being charged extra for every little thing is annoying and gives me a lower perceived value my money. If I paid $350 and got to check my 2 bags, great beverage and snack service, and a warm blanket provided I would feel like I great deal because the service was so great. If my ticket was a little cheaper but they demanded I fork over money to check my bags, then had to try and dig money out of my pockets in a small airline seat to get a drink and a snack... oh, now I think the plane is cold so I need to break out the credit card to get a blanket. I get off the plane feeling like I had a bad value and experience. Where should the cruise lines stop it? Whip out your sign and sail card to use the elevator? Attach a different color bracelet to you each day you buy a pool pass? Charge to use the chairs in the lounge? No one uses all the services available, but I don't want to be charged individually for every little thing I want to do every time I turn around. For me, that just doesn't seem like much of a vacation. I think that's exactly what bugs me about it to. Alot of us like the all inclusive (at least mostly) feeling of cruising. Next it will be charging for the entertainment at the grand theaters each night. Maybe I don't always see the show, but I like the idea of not pulling out cash when I choose to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruisnGram Posted February 8, 2009 #77 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Call me crazy, but I like things to be included, with airlines and cruise ships. . Sorry Falken but I disagree. I don't use the spa, I usually don't dine in the specialty restaurants, I don't play bingo, etc etc. I don't WANT to be charged for the things I don't use. I think that the way that cruise lines do it now is perfect. They charge a base fare for 1) travel to various ports 2) accomodations 3) food. You can go on a cruise and other then the DSC, pay not one additional cent. Or, you can dine in a specialty restaurant every night, have 25 drinks per day, play bingo all day long, get a 3 hour massage, etc etc and have a $4000 on board bill at the end of your cruise. Your choice, your decision. I think that when the day comes that the prices go way up, and all of this is included, my cruising days are over. I don't to pay for someone's spa treatment. CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsinj Posted February 8, 2009 #78 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Actually, I figured it out. My fare is approx $90.00/day. That covers my accomodations at a medium priced hotel, and I don't get food, entertainment, view, etc. at a hotel ;) Not bad. I want to just pay for what I'm using to keep that cost to me reasonable. If I want extra food that day, I'll get it. I think this is a very reasonable price to pay for a cruise . $90/day is at the very low end and I think most people are aware of that. Additionally, that does not include transportation to/from the port, which, if not within driving distance is going to add more to that cost. Fly in a day early, then you've got an overnight in a hotel, and additional meals to pay for. If you do drive to the port, you'll be lucky to get away paying less than $100 to $150 just to leave your car there. The "value proposition"" which the cruise industry has been touting for the past several years is disappearing, if not already gone. There are many other comparable and less expensive vacation options these days with fuel prices down and the state of the economy. This summer, instead of a cruise, we'll drive 5 or 6 hours to our destination, spend probably $150 to $200 per day for our entire family with everything included. That is significantly less than a cruise is for us - even with just the basics and nothing extra. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruisnGram Posted February 8, 2009 #79 Share Posted February 8, 2009 $90/day is at the very low end and I think most people are aware of that. I don't think so at all. $90 per day is $630 for a 7 day cruise which I think is about average. Of course, that's not a suite, but you can buy passage in some category on most sailings for $90 per day if you shop around. Additionally, that does not include transportation to/from the port, which, if not within driving distance is going to add more to that cost. Fly in a day early, then you've got an overnight in a hotel, and additional meals to pay for. I don't think it's fare to count transportation to and from the ship, airline tickets, prior nights hotel stay, tips at the airport, etc into the cost of a criuse. You may have to pay those things, but some do not. On our upcoming June cruise, we are leaving from a port that is 1/2 hour from our home. We will have a family member drive us to the port the morning we sail and drop us off so not even any parking fee. So the things that you mention may occur, but they are not a given. And, the cruiseline gets none of the revenue from those things. I agree that a family has to take into consideration all of those expenses that they may incur prior to taking a cruise. But you cannot expect a cruise line to take all of those things into consideration prior to setting their price for the cruise. That would be like expecting an airline to consider how much the cruise is going to cost you before setting their price. Each company must set the prices for their product individually. The "value proposition"" which the cruise industry has been touting for the past several years is disappearing, if not already gone. There are many other comparable and less expensive vacation options these days with fuel prices down and the state of the economy. Anyone who thinks that cruising is going to be cheaper than a family camping trip is misleading themselves. That's why we didnt' cruise much when our kids were younger. We just couldn't afford it. Taking the camper to the beach for a week was in our price range...cruising was not. However, that camping trip couldn't COMPARE to a cruise so I would never have said that we had the same experience camping as we would have had on a cruise for less money. On a cruise you not only get your lodging, but visits to various ports and your food. You need to look at what you get on various vacations in order to make a fair comparison and I still maintain that cruising is a wonderful bargain. We live about 150 miles from a very popular summer time resort. To rent a hotel room there for a week for a family of 4 is well over $2000. And then you must eat out for 3 meals a day, for 7 days. Food there is extremely expensive unless you want to eat at McDonalds for the week. And then there are the activities. The boardwalk prices will knock your eyes out. I can guarantee you that a family of 4, can take a 7 day cruise for less money then they will spend at that resort area for 7 days. Of course, if the family drinks a lot, and goes on lots of shore excursions, that would not be the case. I'm just comparing basic costs for lodging, transportation and food. This summer, instead of a cruise, we'll drive 5 or 6 hours to our destination, spend probably $150 to $200 per day for our entire family with everything included. That is significantly less than a cruise is for us - even with just the basics and nothing extra. Howard I can understand in this economy why families are shying away from cruising. I'm sure that the vacation you have planned will be cheaper for you then a cruise. But in order to be fair in comparison, will your vacation give you everything of the same level that you would receive on a cruise? I'm not arguing that the vacation won't be cheaper, I'm just arguing that it won't be the same level of a vacation that a cruise would be. And that's the only way that you can make a fair comparison. CG . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbisson Posted February 8, 2009 #80 Share Posted February 8, 2009 That's the spirt Traveller! I don't know if you've cruised before at all. But I hope you have a great time (and that you enjoy the R. Empress as well) ;) Also-don't let the the term "Continental" scare you away from the main dining rooms. To me, it's somewhat misleading the way the main rooms are described, there will be plenty that you'll recognize and feel free to try new things. If you don't like it, the waiters will be happy to bring you something else Actually, I figured it out. My fare is approx $90.00/day. That covers my accomodations at a medium priced hotel, and I don't get food, entertainment, view, etc. at a hotel ;) Not bad. I want to just pay for what I'm using to keep that cost to me reasonable. If I want extra food that day, I'll get it. I think this is a very reasonable price to pay for a cruise . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catnip Posted February 8, 2009 #81 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Call me crazy, but I like things to be included, with airlines and cruise ships. I would rather pay $350 for my airline ticket than $325 and get charged to check my luggage, charged for my drink, charged for a peanut, etc. To me, being charged extra for every little thing is annoying and gives me a lower perceived value my money. . I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G'ma Posted February 8, 2009 #82 Share Posted February 8, 2009 When everyone jumped on the bandwagon for "Freestyle" dining, specialty restaurants with surcharges, etc., it was only a matter of time before cruise lines started adding more and more fees. If you have a successful enterprise, you want to expand it. You can bet if we all avoided those restaurants with extra charges, they'd disappear in a season or two. You can't have it both ways. Either you want a cruise that includes nice meals served in a nice dining room, with a good selection, well prepared and served-or, you want a selection of restaurants where you pay for what used to be included. It's up to us, the passengers, to put a stop to this. Don't patronize those venues that charge. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catnip Posted February 8, 2009 #83 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You can't have it both ways. Either you want a cruise that includes nice meals served in a nice dining room' date=' with a good selection, well prepared and served-or, you want a [b']selection of restaurants where you pay for what used to be included.[/b] It's up to us, the passengers, to put a stop to this. Don't patronize those venues that charge. Simple as that. And what you have already paid for in your cruise fare. I agree with what you are saying. I do not patronize the "pay extra" places. But, I don't ever see it changing......too many people don't see anything wrong with paying twice for a meal. As long as there are people that will pay twice, the cruise lines will happily keep charging them twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted February 8, 2009 #84 Share Posted February 8, 2009 If there are still cruise lines which offer all-inclusive fares, it is also as simple as patronising them and leaving the a la carte lines to those who cannot afford more, or who budget their money in other directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnritt Posted February 8, 2009 #85 Share Posted February 8, 2009 When everyone jumped on the bandwagon for "Freestyle" dining' date=' specialty restaurants with surcharges, etc., it was only a matter of time before cruise lines started adding more and more fees. If you have a successful enterprise, you want to expand it. You can bet if we all avoided those restaurants with extra charges, they'd disappear in a season or two. You can't have it both ways. Either you want a cruise that includes nice meals served in a nice dining room, with a good selection, well prepared and served-or, you want a selection of restaurants where you pay for what used to be included. It's up to us, the passengers, to put a stop to this. Don't patronize those venues that charge. Simple as that.[/quote'] Stop what? There is a good selection of included restaurants with good food, well prepared and served available every day. If you or I want something really special for dinner, it is available. If you or I want to enjoy the spa, or spa treatments, it is available. If you or I want a martini, margarita, beer, or coke, it is available. If you or I want to take an excursion, it is available. I would much rather have my cruise fare be what it is, a bargain in my opinion, and pay for the extras I use rather than pay more to include alot of things I have no interest in doing/using. I patronize the restaurants/services I care to, and will happily continue to do so. I like this system, it is a good vacation deal for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchdiva Posted February 8, 2009 #86 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Well said johnritt - it's about choice. Just because DH and I choose NOT to utilize the casino, I don't begrudge those who do...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMHCruise Posted February 8, 2009 Author #87 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Stop what? There is a good selection of included restaurants with good food, well prepared and served available every day. If you or I want something really special for dinner, it is available. If you or I want to enjoy the spa, or spa treatments, it is available. If you or I want a martini, margarita, beer, or coke, it is available. If you or I want to take an excursion, it is available. I would much rather have my cruise fare be what it is, a bargain in my opinion, and pay for the extras I use rather than pay more to include alot of things I have no interest in doing/using. I patronize the restaurants/services I care to, and will happily continue to do so. I like this system, it is a good vacation deal for me. I mostly agree with what you are saying but I wouldn't call tacos and rice something really special, though I might have a tast for it...or a plate of spaghetti in the Italian restaurant. I think having these options (which don't cost the cruiseline any more money) available at NO charge is what could set NCL apart. They have already covered the cost to serve you dinner. Why charge more because its on this room or that or because the food is prepared with different seasonings...The food all comes from the same place... I totally get it for Cagneys or Le Bistro....but not for the rest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsinj Posted February 8, 2009 #88 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You can bet if we all avoided those restaurants with extra charges' date=' they'd disappear in a season or two. [/quote'] Nope - it would just mean that they'd bring on the charges for eating in the main dining rooms that much faster. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sottovoce Posted February 8, 2009 #89 Share Posted February 8, 2009 But, I don't ever see it changing......too many people don't see anything wrong with paying twice for a meal. Please get real. You've paid for a meal in the main dining room. Just as you did for twenty years before mass-market cruise ships added extra-charge dining rooms. Now they offer variety, and superb cuts of meat in the extra-charge dining rooms. If you want those additional main course choices, you pay an additional fee for them. Filet costs more than pot roast in every restaurant I've dined in. You haven't "paid twice." I wish people would stop writing silliness like this. If you don't like to pay the surcharge, don't go to the venue. It will be just like cruising ten years ago. The incessant whining about the surcharges grows tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsinj Posted February 8, 2009 #90 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm sure that the vacation you have planned will be cheaper for you then a cruise. But in order to be fair in comparison, will your vacation give you everything of the same level that you would receive on a cruise? I'm not arguing that the vacation won't be cheaper, Look, a vacation is what you make of it. I don't care if you're on a cruise, or backpacking in the Catskills. A cruise is nice, but, to be honest, there are times when I've received better service at McDonalds. And, I've met nicer people at local retail establishments or as neighbors while at a campground than many of the stuck-up egomaniac cruisers I've met. I'm just arguing that it won't be the same level of a vacation that a cruise would be. And that's the only way that you can make a fair comparison. That's the only way YOU can make a fair comparison. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big green Posted February 8, 2009 #91 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Please get real. You've paid for a meal in the main dining room. Just as you did for twenty years before mass-market cruise ships added extra-charge dining rooms. Now they offer variety, and superb cuts of meat in the extra-charge dining rooms. If you want those additional main course choices, you pay an additional fee for them. Filet costs more than pot roast in every restaurant I've dined in. You haven't "paid twice." I wish people would stop writing silliness like this. If you don't like to pay the surcharge, don't go to the venue. It will be just like cruising ten years ago. The incessant whining about the surcharges grows tiresome. If you want all inclusive like stated by some-then go on land all inclusive vacations--there are many out there--quit whining. If you do not want to pay do not go to the speciality restaurants--quit whining. Big Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Cruise4Ever Posted February 8, 2009 #92 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Nope - it would just mean that they'd bring on the charges for eating in the main dining rooms that much faster. Howard Nope - it would mean the overall price of the cruise itself would go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianTwosome Posted February 8, 2009 #93 Share Posted February 8, 2009 When everyone jumped on the bandwagon for "Freestyle" dining' date=' specialty restaurants with surcharges, etc., it was only a matter of time before cruise lines started adding more and more fees. If you have a successful enterprise, you want to expand it. You can bet if we all avoided those restaurants with extra charges, they'd disappear in a season or two. You can't have it both ways. Either you want a cruise that includes nice meals served in a nice dining room, with a good selection, well prepared and served-or, you want a selection of restaurants where you pay for what used to be included. It's up to us, the passengers, to put a stop to this. Don't patronize those venues that charge. Simple as that.[/quote'] I think the idea that people 'jumped on the bandwagon' is quite common to those who don't like the Freestyle concept. 'Jumping on the bandwagon' is a phrase used to describe the effect when people support something simply because others do. I wholeheartedly disagree that this is the case with Freestyle, and I think it's insulting and presumptive to suggest that it is. I'm an intelligent person and I have never been a follower - I've never made decisions based on what others like or don't like. I make my own decisions and I form my opinions based on my own personal life experience. You're absolutely right; if we all avoided the surcharge options, they would no longer be offered, but why would I avoid something that I believe is a good thing? I completely disagree about not having it both ways, however - since in my opinion the included meals ARE "nice meals served in a nice dining room, with a good selection, well prepared and served". :) Perhaps it is my keen mathematical ability that allows me to embrace the Freestyle dining concept of choosing to dine at surcharge restaurants if I want to... the argument that having the price of an OPTIONAL service included in the fare is more appealing doesn't make any sense to me because I am capable of budgeting for it prior to my cruise. I simply include it in my budget for the autotip. I absolutely disagree that not including everything in the fare gives the perception of lower value for my money, and in fact I feel the opposite way. When I am able to see what options are an extra fee, I feel like I am getting the absolute best value for my dollar because I am not paying for anyone else to do things I'm not interested in. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for people to understand. Now, as for paying for what you've already paid for... Break down what an inside cabin pays per day on the ship, because this is the lowest base fare available that includes accommodation, entertainment and food. Any higher category is paid for additional space and perks (a choice that has always been available on cruises but that nobody seems to have a problem with...). On our upcoming Sky cruise in December, the three of us will be paying a little less than $200 per day, including the autotip, for an inside cabin. After we get off the ship, we'll be going to a hotel in the Keys to scuba dive, and we're getting a fantastic deal at $129 per night. I expect to have to pay taxes as well, which in Florida right now are about 15% I think, so that becomes $148.50 per night. On top of that, we'll have to add meals for three people and find our own entertainment. Does anyone honestly think we're going to be able to do that for $50 or less? I know I don't. So, for that $200 per day, I would think budgeting $20 per person for our evening meal would be extremely generous, considering how many other things are included, but let's use that figure anyway. Our first night we chose to eat at Cagney's. For an additional $20 each, we had appetizers (which included an extra one because my daughter didn't like the sauce on hers so they replaced it), a soup/salad, our meals, and desserts (with another 'extra' one because they gave my daughter one to take back to the cabin). My daughter had a beautiful filet mignon and my husband and I had about a half a cow each from the prime rib trolley. Seriously, our server asked us what size cut we wanted and then just cut off a roast for each of us. I love the trolley service - I'm extremely picky about how well my meat is cooked, so being able to choose the cut was perfect for me. It was one of the best prime rib experiences of my life, and I've had a lot of them; it's my favourite meal. All in all, with the additional fee, saying that we each had $40 meals is not an unrealistic estimate. As far as I know, however, there is NO PLACE in the world where we could have had that meal for $40. We may have gotten the main course for that, but not all the appetizers, sides, and desserts. So, NO, I do not believe I 'already paid' for that meal. They do offer prime rib in the main dining room (I sadly missed it on this trip because it was on my birthday, which I CHOSE to spend in Teppanyaki), but the cut is smaller and the accompaniments are not as extravagant. I would still expect to pay more than $20 in a land based restaurant, of course, but it's not the Cagney's experience. Now, on to the idea that this is a precursor of a cruise industry that is entirely a la carte... why is it always 'all or nothing' with some people? So... because I have to send money to school for field trips now (my mom didn't when I was a kid), does that mean that soon I will have to send money every day to ensure she's allowed into the classroom? There are 'pay per view' movies and events offered through my television provider... will I soon have to pay for every single show I choose to watch? Extras are EXTRAS. Charging for additional options is simply that - charging for additional options. I've been cruising since 1975. I KNOW what was and wasn't included in cruising before now, and I can tell you that the ONLY thing that was included then and isn't now is soft drinks. People complain because they never had to pay to use the spa in the past... what spa? The 'gym' was a little room with a couple of machines in it. Guess what? That's still available. Specialty dining? What specialty dining? There was ONE dining room with two sittings, and ONE outdoor serving area. After hours, if you wanted to eat you had to wait until midnight for the buffet. Have the included menus changed? Sure, but the fares haven't gone up anywhere near what the cost of food has, so is that really such a shock? The bottom line is that cruising is STILL inclusive and there's no reason to assume that's going to change. What ships are now providing (not just NCL; they just have more variety than other lines) is OPTIONS, and they're giving us the choice of which ones we want and don't want. I do find it kind of amusing that you start your post by suggesting that I 'jumped on the bandwagon' because I like Freestyle, but at the end you expect me to not do what I want because you tell me not to... :p Thank you for the advice, but I'll continue to make my own choices, and I'll happily pay to do so if that's my CHOICE. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsinj Posted February 8, 2009 #94 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I don't think so at all. $90 per day is $630 for a 7 day cruise which I think is about average. Of course, that's not a suite, but you can buy passage in some category on most sailings for $90 per day if you shop around. About average? Nonsense! If it's "about average" what are you shopping around to find some category on a sailing for that price? You are agreeing with me that is at the very low end. I just checked NCL.com and you can get an inside cabin on a 7 day cruise FROM $629 on a particular sailing - and that is before any fees and taxes. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsinj Posted February 8, 2009 #95 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Nope - it would mean the overall price of the cruise itself would go up. Ok - agreed - 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondhand Posted February 8, 2009 #96 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I agree with the fact that hey, they are there if you want them, if not just go to the main dinning right? It's better than not having the choice/option. I don't see anything wrong with offering the extra choices? However, having said that, the ones we tried were very average food. They could do better at getting the specialty rest's to up the quality for sure. My advice is simply use the included main dining and go on shore for the non-dining room meals....lots of great choices then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnritt Posted February 8, 2009 #97 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I mostly agree with what you are saying but I wouldn't call tacos and rice something really special, though I might have a tast for it...or a plate of spaghetti in the Italian restaurant. I think having these options (which don't cost the cruiseline any more money) available at NO charge is what could set NCL apart. They have already covered the cost to serve you dinner. Why charge more because its on this room or that or because the food is prepared with different seasonings...The food all comes from the same place... I totally get it for Cagneys or Le Bistro....but not for the rest.... I don't remember the menus for the mexican or italian restaurants, but I do remember being offered more than fish tacos and spaghetti. Whether it was worth the extra is all a matter of opinion. BTW, in my opinion, it was yes to the Italian and maybe to the Mexican. To me, $10 for special service, small room dining, and the different food offered in the less expensive surcharge restaurants is worth it if that is what I am in the mood for. When they were included (Pearl 4/08), getting a reservation was difficult and the rooms were packed. The service charge did help with that and the menu's improved some as well, if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller20074 Posted February 8, 2009 #98 Share Posted February 8, 2009 If this is where cruisin' is headed, I probably wouldn't go on any more...this is from Shape magazine, out of their "places to vacation" section....some of you might want to just cruise on this ship ;) ============= Regent Seven Seas $4,995/person (I'm only paying $630 on my upcoming cruise on the Pearl) The luxury line is part of the new generation of cruises offering a true all-inclusive experiene. Since one of the biggest guest complaints was getting nickel-and-dimed for extras, the Regent Seven Seas now includes gratuities as well as most alcohol in it's rates. Other features bound to make you rethink cruising; spacious staterooms, each with it's own balcony and truly delicious food....... I'll stick with $630/person, myself :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big green Posted February 8, 2009 #99 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Nope - it would mean the overall price of the cruise itself would go up. speciality restaurants are here to stay--the cruise industry exists to make a profit--if they do not they will be gone --many folded in the 90s or consolidated to make your choices fewer. Big Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteCruiser Posted February 8, 2009 #100 Share Posted February 8, 2009 About average? Nonsense! If it's "about average" what are you shopping around to find some category on a sailing for that price? You are agreeing with me that is at the very low end. I just checked NCL.com and you can get an inside cabin on a 7 day cruise FROM $629 on a particular sailing - and that is before any fees and taxes. Howard Average for an inside cabin is what they were saying. ncl.com does not have the lowest prices. In the Caribbean in March, for example, on ncl.com there are 3 seven night cruises listed. 2 of the 3 are priced from $529 and the 3rd is priced from $629.00. Including port charges and taxes, the $529 comes out to $632.00 for the week. Again, that is on ncl.com. My TA offers the same cabin for $580.37 all in AND gives a $25.00 OBC. In case you're interested, I was pricing the Pearl on March 29th. So I'd say it's not nonsense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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