NCL Freestyle not so Free.

[Ladder55]

It is interesting to me that this particular thread took this direction. The original review actually received support right off the bat and even praise from some of us cheerleaders. The first snarky comment was made by someone who expected the cheerleaders to chime in with criticism. I firmly believe that negative and positive comments are equally useful, but that doesn't mean that every comment should not be countered. I guess the emotions have built up to such a degree that they get hashed out even on threads that don't follow the pattern.

 

Ladder, you make a great point about the difference between fact and opinion. I wish Evilmille would have responded to my post about that very thing, then the post you are agreeing with - which was aimed at me - would have more credibility.

 

sorry I do not understand , I never had any intention on putting you down at all, I must have missed something..... now im not credibal? unreal

[Evilmille]

Evilmille ~ Your post is a bit of an attack itself. Referring to people who post on cruisecritic often as "lonely" is a confrontational statement, and against the rules of this forum.

 

There may be a few people that attack a poster, but they are not regulars here. There are often reviews that are slanted more to the negative than positive, and when they are written in a way that's respectful to everyone on this board, there are no attacks period.

 

Is it your intention to stop all differing opinions or counter replies period? If that's the case, I'm afraid that's not going to happen for you.

 

So I disagree with your post, and have stated my disagreement with respect and without inflammatory words.

 

Sorry if I offended you by using the word lonley to describe people who use this board as a personal chat room. Go back and read the responses to the OP and his review of his cruise. Yes, they are regulars and Yes they attack the negative posters all the time. After a while, the attacks get tired and sad. On my last cruise I mentioned that the pool was dirty and children were allowed in with diapers. I was told by one of the regulars here that I was lying. So before you get all high and mighty read the responses, see who they are from and note it's the same cast of characters that take every negative review very personally which in a way is kind of sad

[Mooder]

sorry I do not understand , I never had any intention on putting you down at all, I must have missed something..... now im not credibal? unreal

 

No, No, No, I was agreeing with you. I am sorry I was not clear. I am simply wishing that Evilmille had responded to my post so that I could understand Evilmille's position. Nothing against your position or credibility was intended in my post at all.

[*Wink*]

Sorry if I offended you by using the word lonley to describe people who use this board as a personal chat room. Go back and read the responses to the OP and his review of his cruise. Yes, they are regulars and Yes they attack the negative posters all the time. After a while, the attacks get tired and sad. On my last cruise I mentioned that the pool was dirty and children were allowed in with diapers. I was told by one of the regulars here that I was lying. So before you get all high and mighty read the responses, see who they are from and note it's the same cast of characters that take every negative review very personally which in a way is kind of sad

I just re-read this whole thread, and for a few posts made by members I don't really know, I don't see anything untoward.. perhaps some jokes thrown in at the OP's expense, but certainly not attacks.

 

Like I asked before, is any counter reply an attack in your eyes?

 

Thank you for apologizing for referring to regular posters as "lonely." I will assume your labeling of me as "high and mighty" was not meant either.

[Ladder55]

no, no, no, i was agreeing with you. I am sorry i was not clear. I am simply wishing that evilmille had responded to my post so that i could understand evilmille's position. Nothing against your position or credibility was intended in my post at all.

 

 

:d:d:d<smiles>

[CruisnGram]

I agree there are some that have an agenda but=

is ralph one of them?I read his past history and it looks like he was going on another ncl cruise, he had no foul comments,,,,this was his review, Ralph told his review from his perspective and look at the comments he got

my point=

it happens to people with no agenda, this whole thread is an example

 

You totally missed the point. I said exactly this (copied directly from my post)

 

"I don't want anyone to misunderstand my post. I am not talking about those who post a reveiw of their NCL sailing that contains negative comments. I'm talking about those who constantly post claiming that the NCL supporters here attack any review that has anything negative posted in it (not true) or post insulting things about regular posters here, or call the regulars cheerleaders, or claim over and over again that we have no right to post anything in return when a negative rant (not review) is posted."

 

Since Ralph posted a review, obviously I wasn't talking about him at all.

 

CG

[CruisnGram]

The first snarky comment was made by someone who expected the cheerleaders to chime in with criticism. .

 

Exactly Mooder. As I said, there are a couple who have an agenda and never fail to push it whenever they can.

 

CG

[Ladder55]

You totally missed the point. I said exactly this (copied directly from my post)

 

"I don't want anyone to misunderstand my post. I am not talking about those who post a reveiw of their NCL sailing that contains negative comments. I'm talking about those who constantly post claiming that the NCL supporters here attack any review that has anything negative posted in it (not true) or post insulting things about regular posters here, or call the regulars cheerleaders, or claim over and over again that we have no right to post anything in return when a negative rant (not review) is posted."

 

Since Ralph posted a review, obviously I wasn't talking about him at all.

 

CG

oh , ok, thank you

[Evilmille]

I just re-read this whole thread, and for a few posts made by members I don't really know, I don't see anything untoward.. perhaps some jokes thrown in at the OP's expense

 

Maybe jokes at someone else's expense is fine with you. For me it's not. Sorry we disagree on that.

[Mooder]

You miss the point. This is about a pack mentality of a few on this board who feel free to dismiss, insult, and make fun of any poster that has anything negative to say. You all know who you are. It's easier to be a bully on an anonomous chat room than it is in real life which is why it's so easy for some. Doesn't make it right though.

 

It is not right to bully. But what I would like for you to understand is that I feel just as bullied by the ones who paint all "cheerleaders" with the same broad brush. I am often afraid to say something positive about NCl for fear of this type of thread. But I don't want to leave newbies with an unbalanced impression of NCL either. We are not all bullies, and we don't all attack. The first snarky post was indeed by someone expecting the cheerleaders to make a fuss and the fact is that most of us regulars have praised the OP but questioned some of the review's contents, which is the role of these boards. I did go back and see the OP's prior experiences. It gave the review context, but I am pretty certain I never questioned his sanity.

[ZoneHPH]

CAN'T WE JUST GET ALONG?

 

 

and Freestyle is not FREE style....the end.

[Mooder]

Cruisin Gram and Bermuder:

 

From what I have read, it appears that you need to place certain "posters" on your ignore list. Your posts have been well written, positive and factual unfortunately it is a shame that not everyone can recognize the value of your cruising experiences and stop nitpicking every single word you write.

 

Thanks. I appreciate that. I try to be positive. That's all I can do - I know my mood (or should I say mude) sometimes gets the better of me.

[Evilmille]

It is not right to bully. But what I would like for you to understand is that I feel just as bullied by the ones who paint all "cheerleaders" with the same broad brush. I am often afraid to say something positive about NCl for fear of this type of thread. But I don't want to leave newbies with an unbalanced impression of NCL either. We are not all bullies, and we don't all attack. The first snarky post was indeed by someone expecting the cheerleaders to make a fuss and the fact is that most of us regulars have praised the OP but questioned some of the review's contents, which is the role of these boards. I did go back and see the OP's prior experiences. It gave the review context, but I am pretty certain I never questioned his sanity.

 

You never did and I was careful not to name names. There are many wonderful long time posters on this board that gave me very valuable info before my cruise and I appreciated it.

[Racer02]

I am one of the no-doubt countless members who visit this board several times a week in order to learn through others’ experiences, but do not participate in actively posting. This thread is a perfect example of a dialog that compels me to respond, yet by responding I am helping perpetuate the nonsense.

This OP made a few key, apparent fact-based comments about NCL charging for things it may not have in the past. It did tail off a bit about more subjective subjects like customer service expectations but the core of the post stands.

NCL has a reputation as a “nickel and dime” line. How do I know this? I have heard it from more than one source over an extended period of time. That is now my perception, and therefore my reality regarding NCL. I am not a travel expert. I do not work in the industry. Does this mean it is true? Nope. It that my problem? Nope. It is NCL’s problem that the reputation is out there, true or not. This posting appears to an unfortunate reinforcing example of my perception.

Now, in actuality – I think people are frustrated. I think they are frustrated because a product they love and have come accustomed to is changing. In some ways it is changing for the good. I can cruise right now for less than I could on my first in 2000. That ironically is also the bad thing about cruising. I won’t insult everyone’s intelligence explaining that but I think it is reflected in the OP.

What gets me the most…. is why on earth, after all this time people need to try and bully, insult, etc each other after observations are made. Is it not in your capacity just to leave it be and let people read and take the good with the bad?

[Mooder]

You never did and I was careful not to name names.

 

Thanks. I am glad we agree that this is a wonderfully valuable resource. I believe that one problem with the internet, aside from the anonymity, is that because we cannot add intonation or facial expressions to our words, intent and generalizations are sometimes inferred that are not intended. I have seen the mistake made on all sides of the issues. Cheerleaders and naysayers alike. We all get along better when we remember to assume the best rather than brace for the worst. Thank you for your response.

[chapichapo]

I completely agree with CruisinGram. I believe you missed her entire point which was: if having a retractable roof over the pool and an adult only solarium was a priority, then the OP should have done some research to see if the ship he selected met the criteria that he wanted.

That's why I also added that even if you do your research, "there's always something you may forget to see. And you are intitled to complain and warn others about what it was that you desliked."

 

We may only realise about certain things until we arrive there. So, what's the problem with complaining and warning others about it. Eg, we may only realise that we chose a hotel near a crowded beach until we get there. So, we could have been more carefull and done some research before we went but we may also decide to warn others about the fact that the beach near the hotel is crowded.

 

I don't think I have to do research about every thing I decide to do. When you go to a hotel, for ex, you expect certain things like the room to be confortable and clean, the breakfast to be nice, the staff to be polite, the room to have a view and if you end up in a hard bed, messy bathroom, no breakfast, rude staff and no window you might feel like something is wrong with that place. So you complain in a forum. And someone replies: "Ah no! If those things were important to you, you should have chosen a hotel with all those aspects. So now, no whining..." :rolleyes:

[chapichapo]

I think you misunderstood what I said. I never said that Ralph didn't have the right to tell others about there not being a solarium or a pool with a retractable roof. I simply said that if those things were important to him, he should have checked them out prior to booking his trip.

 

For example. I've sailed on NCL 3 times and none of the ships have had a solarium nor a retractable pool roof. And I've never mentioned these things in my reviews. Why? Because honesty, I don't care about those things and whether they even had them or not never even crossed my mind. However, I love the casino's and I wouldn't be happy on a ship that didn't have one. So, you best believe before I book any ship, I verify first that there is indeed a casino. Bottom line is that everyone needs to check out what the ship does and doesn't have prior to booking their trip to be sure that the things that are important to them are there. Wouldn't you agree?

Sure, I do the same. But I don't mind others to be different. If someone realises that not all ships have retractable roofs in the pool area and that person chooses to complain about it... I don't see what's wrong.

I am suprised myself to realise that a certain ship might do a winter itinerary without a "winter pool"...

[DocJohnB]

 

There may be a few people that attack a poster, but they are not regulars here.

 

I would respectfully disagree with the above. There are some regulars on here who will attack a poster in a heartbeat . . . . . . especially if that poster is new (i.e., first post).

[Medicmom]

I don't get why all the negative and sarcastic comments are coming from.... The OP gave an organized review, and was specific as to what his/her problems were. As a new poster/ first time cruiser I have seen numerous posters who seem to attack and belittle other posters for their opinions. I understand completely if someone is posting rants and raves with little to no content other then bashing a certain line..... but it seems some posters who have become what they claim to hate-- complainers. They complain not about the cruise lines-- but instead about the cruisers who have different opinions or experiences then their own.

It's ironic that some of these people say to go check out a poster's history as a way to discredit their statements--- when in fact if you went and checked some of these "veteran poster's" previous posts all you'd find is post after post of them being negative and bashing OP's who have had a different experience then them.

It really is a huge problem here on CC with a handful of regular posters, being regularly negative, sarcastic and downright mean at times. And it is scary as a new cruiser and new poster to write on here for fear of what is to come.

Reading some of these comments it makes me wonder why-- if you know everything, and you think most people are beneath you, and you are "exasperated" by the "lack of common sense", and you haven't written anything even remotely nice, encouraging or helpful in months.... why you even bother to come on here??? Why not start up a new board for experienced, know everything, follow every rule, and no negative talk about a cruiseline people?

I know I am going to get heat for this---- funny thing is I know most of the people who will slam me--- because looking back on their history's it is what they do! :D

 

PS-- There are a lot of great veteran posters on here, who go out of their way to make you feel welcome, and to answer questions some of us newbies have. And that is why I stay-- I have just taken to skimming over comments made by certain posters who are consistently negative.

[luddite]

NCL has cheerleaders?!?!:eek:

Man, I love watching cheerleaders. I've never seen them on a ship. Where do they perform?

Are they like the old-fashioned squads that I grew up with or are they just a modern dance-drill type. I'm not much for the modern style of 'cheer squads'. I really prefer the old-style squads with the wool outfits. Hand-held megaphones are also a favorite. :rolleyes:

[Mooder]

I would respectfully disagree with the above. There are some regulars on here who will attack a poster in a heartbeat . . . . . . especially if that poster is new (i.e., first post).

 

As I suggested before, it goes both ways. I have been called smug and arrogant and a Stepford Wife (my favorite) -- I believe on this very thread. We all know that some people here go over the line, but why do we have to pretend that it is all the pro-NCL people or all the anti-NCL people?

[Evilmille]

I don't get why all the negative and sarcastic comments are coming from.... The OP gave an organized review, and was specific as to what his/her problems were. As a new poster/ first time cruiser I have seen numerous posters who seem to attack and belittle other posters for their opinions. I understand completely if someone is posting rants and raves with little to no content other then bashing a certain line..... but it seems some posters who have become what they claim to hate-- complainers. They complain not about the cruise lines-- but instead about the cruisers who have different opinions or experiences then their own.

It's ironic that some of these people say to go check out a poster's history as a way to discredit their statements--- when in fact if you went and checked some of these "veteran poster's" previous posts all you'd find is post after post of them being negative and bashing OP's who have had a different experience then them.

It really is a huge problem here on CC with a handful of regular posters, being regularly negative, sarcastic and downright mean at times. And it is scary as a new cruiser and new poster to write on here for fear of what is to come.

Reading some of these comments it makes me wonder why-- if you know everything, and you think most people are beneath you, and you are "exasperated" by the "lack of common sense", and you haven't written anything even remotely nice, encouraging or helpful in months.... why you even bother to come on here??? Why not start up a new board for experienced, know everything, follow every rule, and no negative talk about a cruiseline people?

I know I am going to get heat for this---- funny thing is I know most of the people who will slam me--- because looking back on their history's it is what they do! :D

 

PS-- There are a lot of great veteran posters on here, who go out of their way to make you feel welcome, and to answer questions some of us newbies have. And that is why I stay-- I have just taken to skimming over comments made by certain posters who are consistently negative.

 

Well said Medic Mom, I would bet that many that have been attacked have not come back here which is a diservice to all that want unfiltered true info.

[CruisnGram]

NCL has a reputation as a “nickel and dime” line. How do I know this? I have heard it from more than one source over an extended period of time.

And from what source have you head this? Posts on an anonymous messge board by those who may have it in for NCL?

 

That is now my perception, and therefore my reality regarding NCL.

Thank you for saying this. It 100% proves what many of us have said all along. Ignoring incorrect information that is posted, and not responding to posts that contain experiences that were the exact opposite of many of us, truly do have an impact on what people perceive. People say all the time that negative information should just be ignored... that no one believes everything they read. You have just shown us that it is indeed important to make sure that people get balanced, correct info so that they are not deceived.

 

I am not a travel expert. I do not work in the industry. Does this mean it is true? Nope. It that my problem? Nope. It is NCL’s problem that the reputation is out there, true or not. This posting appears to an unfortunate reinforcing example of my perception.

 

Ah yes, but true or not is the issue here. Why should those who disagree with what was stated, not respond with their opinion?

And why is this particular posting (Ralphs?) reinforcing your opnion? There are many posted reviews from the same ship, same sailing date...same exact cruise...that had a wonderful time and no complaints? You let Ralph's negative opinions carry more weight with you then the numerous postive ones?

 

Now, in actuality – I think people are frustrated. I think they are frustrated because a product they love and have come accustomed to is changing.

Not at all. Every day, NCL becomes a much better value then any other cruiseline out there....in my opinion of course. The only frustration that I feel is due to people who post one sided reviews, with incorrect factual information, and those who swallow what they say hook, line and sinker.

 

In some ways it is changing for the good. I can cruise right now for less than I could on my first in 2000. That ironically is also the bad thing about cruising. I won’t insult everyone’s intelligence explaining that but I think it is reflected in the OP.

 

Yes, cruising has changed. The cruiselines had two options. Keep prices the same and reduce some of the quality and included items. Or keep things as they were and raise prices. They chose the former. But that is not unique to NCL. RCL doesn't leave chocolates at night any more. RCL charges for room service at certain times. NCL does neither...both are still part of the NCL cruise experience.

The part that irks me the most is the "nickle and diming" statements. Id love for someone to make a list of what is included on say an RCL ship that is not included on an NCL ship. And then, compare the pricing of the basic cruise on NCL vs RCL. I can guarantee you that unless a special sale is going on, NCL will tromp RCL in it's pricing. So much that those extras you may pay for on NCL could all be purchased and you'd still come out way ahead in the pricing game over RCL. NCL gives you a choice as to whether you want to spend your money on something or not. And to me, that choice does not convert to "nickel and diming". It converts to me being able to choose what I want to spend my money on,and not having to pay extra for the cruise upfront to satisfy everyone else's needs and desires.

 

What gets me the most…. is why on earth, after all this time people need to try and bully, insult, etc each other after observations are made. Is it not in your capacity just to leave it be and let people read and take the good with the bad?

 

No excuse for bullying or insulting. But opposing points of view are not bullying or insulting in my opinion. And, as you stated in your own words, what you have read here on CC has made you form the opinon that NCL nickels and dimes people. You have 100% proved that incorrect information is indeed listened to. Therefore, it's important that people keep responding to incorrect information and sharing their positive experiences. That way, readers get both sides of an issue.

 

CG

[Racer02]

Wow.... Good day, I have to go wrap my nickels and dimes for my June Star cruise. Thanks for helping make my point.

[CruisnGram]

We all know that some people here go over the line, but why do we have to pretend that it is all the pro-NCL people or all the anti-NCL people?

 

Well said Mooder. And we all know why. Agenda.

 

CG