Gratuities

[Addict]

Addict has been getting nationally defensive about a cruise review - yes, it characterizes British passengers - but it was posted on a UK website, about a cruise originating in the UK, by a poster whose references to Thompson (whose market is almost exclusively UK) makes clear is almost certainly British.

 

Doctor heal thyself...

 

As for the comments that 'they' the crew deserve low wages because of where they're from. That's colonial and outdated... Most of the crew come from major metropolitan areas where transportation, gasoline, petro-chemical products, electricity, cell phone service, etc. follow fairly universal cost patterns. Wake up, it's a global village (or urban area); the earnings of crew are good (when passengers do their part) but they're hard earned... That's why so few US/EC nationals do it - it's too hard!

 

Regardless of where you're from, if you refuse to provide standard crew compensation for standard service, stay ashore. Your not fit for (vacation) life aboard ship.

 

I have no need of a doctor thank you :D. British and proud of it - and there's nothing wrong with that!

 

I never said that the crew deserve low wages - and have never "stiffed" ANY of the crew on any of our cruises. The OP refers to removing auto-tips and if you search you will find many posts from people from MANY NATIONALITIES that find AUTO-TIPS objectionable - doesn't mean to say they will all NOT PAY tips.

 

We either pre-pay our tips before we even leave home (and that's before we even know the level of service we are going to get), or leave the auto-tip in place - not that it is anyone's business but ours.

 

Re - "Your not fit for life aboard ship" - It beats me why everyone gets so involved and critical about what others do or don't do.

[woodofpine]

I have no need of a doctor thank you :D. British and proud of it - and there's nothing wrong with that!

 

I never said that the crew deserve low wages - and have never "stiffed" ANY of the crew on any of our cruises. The OP refers to removing auto-tips and if you search you will find many posts from people from MANY NATIONALITIES that find AUTO-TIPS objectionable - doesn't mean to say they will all NOT PAY tips.

 

We either pre-pay our tips before we even leave home (and that's before we even know the level of service we are going to get), or leave the auto-tip in place - not that it is anyone's business but ours.

 

Re - "Your not fit for life aboard ship" - It beats me why everyone gets so involved and critical about what others do or don't do.

 

Hail Brittania!

 

Addict - from your comments I'm sure you're A-OK with the crew. That said, a lot of folks go cruising, know the gig, and stiff the crew. You can read it between the lines on these boards. It comes in the form of, 1) how we do it in Derbyshire (where my grand dad hailed from) or Sydney - is how it should be done at sea, or 2) I tip when I get 'extraordinary service' ('loofa my back steward';)) service that prompts repeat patonage and positive vacation reviews amongst friends but always go to pot when it time to pull the wallet, 3) I've paid plenty for my fare and the lines should pay them a decent wage (I won't)...

 

The reason there is auto tipping is because the number of non-payors is higher than you'd think and growing. Tipping by individuals does NOT result in better service as best as the industry (luxe lines, etc.) can tell but it does result in more crew pinching.

 

And since this is 'crusecritic' a forum on ideas and opinions, I'll give mine on those who pinch the crew.

 

I'm glad you need no doctor... Britons should be proud, where would we be without Shakespeare....

 

Q. Can you name the shortest book in the english language?

[woodofpine]

....;)

[Addict]

....;)

 

:D I didn't realise it was "have a go at the Brits day".

[ECCruise]

I was also on the cruise quoted. In my mind, Christian Daniel (the Hotel Director's) comment will likely go down as one of the stupidest things I have ever heard on a cruise. From the balcony in the theater, I almost screamed at him when he said "oh, I can't tell you how much we pay each crew member, if I did I would have to kill you (yuk, yuk), but I can definitely tell you that all of our crew receives a salary in addition to what gratuities they receive." I almost yelled "$50 per month is not a salary" but refrained.

 

Next stop was the purser's desk, where the lines stretched 2 deep for the next day. Wonder what that was for?

 

And yes, the crew that we spoke to "can't wait to get out of here" and get back to cruises leaving from the U.S. Wonder why they would say that?

[Scottygirl1]

Ok I am new to these boards and don't want to start another "tipping" thread so here is my questions. Our gratuity will be included in our fare but are we also expected to tip separately as well ie, waiters, cabin crew etc? We don't mind this but because we are not used to tipping in New Zealand, I just want to know the correct thing to do. Many thanks :)

[woodofpine]

:D I didn't realise it was "have a go at the Brits day".

 

Sorry - I couldn't help it!

 

But consider the source! Unlikeable upstarts that can't pay their own restaurant staff a wage and to this day wouldn't consider stepping foot on a ship had they been 'invited' to the Battle of Trafalger!

 

There...

 

Hope you feel better. :D

[woodofpine]

Ok I am new to these boards and don't want to start another "tipping" thread so here is my questions. Our gratuity will be included in our fare but are we also expected to tip separately as well ie, waiters, cabin crew etc? We don't mind this but because we are not used to tipping in New Zealand, I just want to know the correct thing to do. Many thanks :)

 

If you are purchasing a fare that has it clearly delineated as "gratuity included" then your general crew compensation obligations are satisfied. There is no particular need to 'tip' further. The use of the word 'tip' causes some of the problem pertaining to passenger compensation obligations which are a matter of cruising 'tradition'.

 

Most passengers - particularly North Americans - don't purchase a "gratuity inclusive" fare. In that instance, the cruise line guidelines are published and run $10-12 pp per diem covering the cabin steward and support staff and the restaurant and food service staff. This compensation is traditionally expected as a standard element of cruise expense for standard service which is typically good.

[Addict]

Sorry - I couldn't help it!

 

But consider the source! Unlikeable upstarts that can't pay their own restaurant staff a wage and to this day wouldn't consider stepping foot on a ship had they been 'invited' to the Battle of Trafalger!

 

There...

 

Hope you feel better. :D

 

:D:D

 

Now this will be my last post then I will run.... because......

 

I am almost certain that Christian Daniel is a Brit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh dear, this is where I get off the bus..... bye!

[ECCruise]

:D:D

 

Now this will be my last post then I will run.... because......

 

I am almost certain that Christian Daniel is a Brit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh dear, this is where I get off the bus..... bye!

 

Nope. You are safe, LOL. Born in New York, raised in France, lives in Tahiti.

[Addict]

Nope. You are safe, LOL. Born in New York, raised in France, lives in Tahiti.

 

Oh thank goodness. I think I got him confused with another Daniel who is a hotel director.

[Scottygirl1]

If you are purchasing a fare that has it clearly delineated as "gratuity included" then your general crew compensation obligations are satisfied. There is no particular need to 'tip' further. The use of the word 'tip' causes some of the problem pertaining to passenger compensation obligations which are a matter of cruising 'tradition'.

 

Most passengers - particularly North Americans - don't purchase a "gratuity inclusive" fare. In that instance, the cruise line guidelines are published and run $10-12 pp per diem covering the cabin steward and support staff and the restaurant and food service staff. This compensation is traditionally expected as a standard element of cruise expense for standard service which is typically good.

 

Thanks for that - I am just wondering how the crew know I have prepaid my gratuity. I'd hate them to think I am a cheapo for not tipping them when my fellow American passengers are being seen to tip.

[cruiseacecat]

Ok I am new to these boards and don't want to start another "tipping" thread so here is my questions. Our gratuity will be included in our fare but are we also expected to tip separately as well ie, waiters, cabin crew etc? We don't mind this but because we are not used to tipping in New Zealand, I just want to know the correct thing to do. Many thanks :)

 

Hi Scottygirl1,

 

Welcome to cruise critic. As you have read, sometimes people get a little carried away. :)

In answer to your question, if your gratuity is paid in advance, you do not need to tip further, unless you feel you have really received extraordinary service in which case you could add a little extra the last night for that person.

 

Anne

[Ma Bell]

Christian Daniel is an outstanding Hotel Director and one of the nicest people I have ever met.

[ECCruise]

Christian Daniel is an outstanding Hotel Director and one of the nicest people I have ever met.

 

I agree. Nice guy. But not real supportive of the crew. See previous comments.

[paulred]

Ok I am new to these boards and don't want to start another "tipping" thread so here is my questions. Our gratuity will be included in our fare but are we also expected to tip separately as well ie, waiters, cabin crew etc? We don't mind this but because we are not used to tipping in New Zealand, I just want to know the correct thing to do. Many thanks :)

 

If you autotip, you have done your duty and no more is expected. any extra tip is soley at your discretion, and no offense taken if you don't do more.

 

Paul

[Ma Bell]

I agree. Nice guy. But not real supportive of the crew. See previous comments.

 

I disagree completely. The crew think very highly if him. I'm sure the comment was an honest answer to a question and he probably didn't realize that he needed to elaborate. Most people are not that ignorant.

[ECCruise]

I disagree completely. The crew think very highly if him. I'm sure the comment was an honest answer to a question and he probably didn't realize that he needed to elaborate. Most people are not that ignorant.

 

I was there. I listened to what he said. I saw many people go to the pursers and remove their auto-tips because of the fact that the "crew receives a salary". This has been reported in the review that sparked all this discussion. It has been reported that 1100 pax removed their tips on that cruise, and if you think that "most people" believe that the average line crew member receives $50 per month in salary, I think you are very, very mistaken.

[The_Big_M]

Yes, but the salary they earn in "our world" converts very favourably into their home currency and gives them very good spending power for their families etc - does it not?

 

A salary of $50/month? No, I'd say it does not, regardless of the currency and location.

[Ma Bell]

Maybe I am but it seems to me that when the cruiseline makes a point of recommending the "customary" gratuities, most people understand that it's the way the servers and cabin attendants are compensated.

 

I've been on a lot of cruises and never met anyone who didn't "understand". I suppose it's because of the high percentage of people who are not used to tipping on this particular cruise and the fact that they have just started with the prepaid gratuities. Then again there are some who are always looking for a way out.

[Ommadawn]

I am taking a cruise this September (my Honeymoon cruise) and it will be my first cruise since 2001 (before this auto-tip thing went into effect, I think).

 

Anyways, I like this idea. It removes from me the onus of figuring out what to tip (for the generally expected excellent service) and actually doing as such. If somebody goes above and beyond the call of duty, then I will be happy to leave extra.

 

I am very curious to see if (under the interesting theoretical scenario of having a lapel pin to wear showing that one had prepaid their auto-tips or that one had locked-in their auto-tips) one would receive different service from the staff. And, if so, if it was significantly better. :) :) :)

[uktog]

What I do find strange is that 1100 are alleged to have removed their tips - I have never seen more than a couple of hundred at these q and a sessions or end of cruise talks so there must have been a really well defined communication process under way for the news to spread that fast given that these events are usually at the end of the trip. I am wondering - is the figure of those who removed their tips correct and was that activity solely driven by the response of one person to one question?

[MiamiSky66]

I just got off of an Alaskan cruise. I agree that most Brits do not want to tip. There was a waiter that had 21 Brits at his table. Two prepayed, the other 19 shook his hand and said thank you. He worked two weeks for free.

also an employee told me that on another cruise when 300 brits enetered the ship they went directly to the reception area and removed their tips. When they tip on their own it's never more than 1/2 the tips.

[ECCruise]

What I do find strange is that 1100 are alleged to have removed their tips - I have never seen more than a couple of hundred at these q and a sessions or end of cruise talks so there must have been a really well defined communication process under way for the news to spread that fast given that these events are usually at the end of the trip. I am wondering - is the figure of those who removed their tips correct and was that activity solely driven by the response of one person to one question?

 

In addition to the "Life at Sea" Q + A session, where the question was specifically asked, "If they receive a salary, how much is it?" which was answered totally inadequately, there were a number of references in the "Celebrity Today" starting fairly early in the cruise, announcing that those who wanted to "adjust their gratuities" should come to the purser's desk.

 

The funny thing is that on the first leg of this trip, the Transatlantic, with a totally different demographic, that blurb never appeared in the daily paper.

[kiwinick]

I know this is a very touchy subject, and one which is often has nationalistic overtones but it seems to stem fundamentally from the fact that the tips CAN be removed instead of being non-negotiable. The majority of American cruisers here on the boards are well versed in the customary fact that the cruise staff get paid next to nothing and rely entirely on tips this wouldn't be the assumption made by most European travelers. It would never occur to the vast majority of euro cruisers (not reading these boards) that in removing the small tip amount from their bill they were depriving the staff of their livelihood. In the West we take for granted the basic standards of employment afforded us by the law, instead of getting hung up on the issue of tips, why not ensure that those who serve us at sea are afforded the same basic rights?

 

A lot of ire has been focussed on the fact that Celebrity, and more recently a specific hotel manager, don't make plain this fact. How could anyone be surprised that in this day and age a major corporation wasn't prepared to own up to paying its staff a base salary of circa $600 a year? It is often rehashed here that the whole scheme is a tax efficiency on the part of Celebrity and should be accepted as a fact of cruising life and as long as you don't remove the auto-tips everything is fine. It is personally surprising, having read thousands of these threads, very few people advocate a systemic shift. I would prefer to never see a crew member stiffed out of their living, as long as tips are optional the only way I could see the hardworking crew getting a genuinely fair deal would be for the cruise line to pay them at the very least the minimum wage that is legislated in the US or the EU (yes I know they are not bound by either jurisdiction...) Instead of constantly attacking each other for stiffing the crew out of their tips why don't we all advocate a genuine change which will give the crew the security of not being shortchanged by a very imperfect wage system?

 

This might sound like a diatribe but I am just trying to help people to see the issue in another light. Across the board those who attack people for removing tips from their bill do so very honourably in defence of the crew, but surely we have better means of ensuring a fair, consistent system of remuneration for them - even if it perhaps comes at an additional cost to the customer? I for one would always prefer to make an ethical choice about the products I buy even if it costs a little more at the cash register. It is not my intention to bash Celebrity, by and large corporations will get away with whatever savings they can, but it is up to customers to make it known what they will and will not accept to keep them in check.