Art auction curiosityand alleged unfair practice

[Avidtravler]

Todays newspaper reports a man being removed from a Royal Caribbean ship for downloading information about an onboard art auction business aboard the ship that has been the subject of numerous lawsuits alleging unfair business practices, and then passing around a one page fact sheet about the company to fellow passengers. The business is Park West Gallery.

After some research he came across media and legal reports about Park West.A number of customers have sued the company claiming the works it sells are significantly overpriced, and in some cases "little better than a poster". The lawsuit claims that Royal Caribbean gains a roughly 20 percent portion of the sales generated onboard.

Does anyone know if Oceana has onboard auctions, and what is the name of the auction gallery it uses if it has auctions.

Avidtravler

[Druke I]

Oceania does have on-board art auctions. I avoid them like the plague, and have no idea what company might run them.

 

On Nautica, Nov 06, Istanbul to Signapore, the Auctioneer was a very obnoxious fellow who went by the moniker of Tiny Tim.

[martinchem]

It's ok to attend for thefree champagne.

[LAexNY]

Todays newspaper reports a man being removed from a Royal Caribbean ship for downloading information about an onboard art auction business aboard the ship that has been the subject of numerous lawsuits alleging unfair business practices, and then passing around a one page fact sheet about the company to fellow passengers. The business is Park West Gallery.

After some research he came across media and legal reports about Park West.A number of customers have sued the company claiming the works it sells are significantly overpriced, and in some cases "little better than a poster". The lawsuit claims that Royal Caribbean gains a roughly 20 percent portion of the sales generated onboard.

Does anyone know if Oceana has onboard auctions, and what is the name of the auction gallery it uses if it has auctions.

Avidtravler

 

Oceania does use Park West. Many of us are eagerly awaiting their removal as the photographers were removed some time ago. There has been much negative publicity about Park West in the media over the years and there are several lawsuits pending.

[Oslo Dutch]

It's ok to attend for thefree champagne.

 

I thought it was just cheap bubbly white wine :D:D

 

These auctions are one of the things you have to tolerate even though it's very tacky and irritating. But unlike the photographers it's easy to avoid, ignore and put your focus on the other wonderful things a cruise has to offer. Some cruise lines clutter their public areas and corridors full of that so called "art" .I imagine on Oceania it's confined to a certain room.

 

Nice to hear they've done away with the photographers. Well done Oceania!!

[coldinreno]

Oceania does have on-board art auctions. I avoid them like the plague, and have no idea what company might run them.

 

On Nautica, Nov 06, Istanbul to Signapore, the Auctioneer was a very obnoxious fellow who went by the moniker of Tiny Tim.

 

 

We also encountered the very obnoxious Tiny Tim on board Regatta in 2008. We avoid this annoyance like almost everyone else. One positive note, on Nautica this year Jan/Feb the cruise directer Dottie kept it quite low key limiting the barrage of announcements over to PA. I told her we appreciated that.

[Paul123]

I believe that Holland America have or are about to drop the dreaded Art Auction much to the almost universal relief of their pax it would appear.

[orchestrapal]

If the passengers on Oceania stop attending these auctions, and buying the over-priced art, the auctions will go away!

[suec12]

On a recent Nautica sailing I noticed their "gallery" but if they had an auction I was not aware of the event. Yes there has been several articles re: Park West Galleries and the dubious worth of their wares. Interesting the Royal Carribean had the passenger leave the ship? Seems to me that passengers should realize "buyer beware" but I know I am a pretty cynical and skeptical person. I only buy things I understand, like wine, and not the auctioned variety! My favorites are the house wines sold by the carafe thru out Europe.

[aztex]

I have to admit that the auctions are great entertainment accompanied by free champagne. For anyone looking for a real value on this "priceless art" they can go to eBay and buy any number of the works for 5 cents on the dollar or less.

Even though the entertainment value is high, I would be very happy to see the auctions disappear from Oceania. If they want to have auctions that's fine by me, but make it a legitimate auction with items of actual value.

[LHT28]

I never go to them but the announcements are usually low key unlike on the mass market lines.

 

I just wish if they are going to keep them move the desk to deck 4

So we can enjoy the quartet in the evening without the salesman shouting to be heard by his victims ... i mean clients :eek:

 

I guess they musst make some money or they would not be there

Lyn

[lovecruisingtoo]

I have to admit that the auctions are great entertainment accompanied by free champagne.

 

If you can even call it champagne. Some things are not worth the price - even if it is free.

[wripro]

The free "champagne" is meant to loosen your inhibitions and make you more likely to open your purse strings.

[Bruin Steve]

When we were on Nautica a few weeks back (June 27-July 11), the "art auctions" were up and running...plus Park West had a small office and storefront right next to Martinis, in front of the Casino...All of the cruise lines seem to use Park West to run these things...Oceania is no different. Actually, the big difference on Oceania is the ship only had 600 people on board...If you are on Carnival with 4,000 people and they get 5% of the passengers to show, there will be 800 people at the auction...With 600 cruisers, 5% gets you a crowd of 30...Half of the people are there just for the free cheap champagne...or because they are bored (I sat in on one because I had nothing else to do and was waiting for "Trivia" in the same room)...half are there to watch the auction and only about half of those are actually interested in bidding...With only a handful of people actually willing to buy art this way, the auction is somewhat funny...piece after piece went up on the easel and came down without a bid...

 

It is really hard to believe that Oceania patrons would even consider buying art to decorate their home this way...Ever see the movie the In-Laws--the original from 1979 with Peter Falk and Alan Arkin? There's a scene where they go to see some Banana Republic dictator who shows off his "art collection"...All of the paintings are on black velvet...THAT guy probably buys from Park West!!!

 

Here's an answer to a similar question I wrote a few years back on a message board for another cruise line:

 

****************************************

Generally, all art auctions, especially those on cruise ships, are a bad deal (I won't say a "scam" because you do get what you are willing to buy at a price you were willing to pay...it's just that it's not a very good price)...

 

The psychology behind any auction is that bidders THINK they are getting a great deal...and that if they don't grab it now, the opportunity will be gone...

Clueless bidders will drive the price up beyond what the item is really worth.

 

Now, if you really had the time and opportunity to think about it, you would research anything you might be tempted to buy BEFOREHAND. You would know what it is really worth before bidding on it. If it were a land based auction, you would request a catalog first, maybe an opportunity to preview the auction items...

 

Now, the "art" they're selling is not unique, one-of-a-kind stuff...Nobody's put Leonardo's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Nightwatch on the cruise ship to sell to the highest bidder.

 

What they sell is either mass-produced prints or assembly lined lithographs by generic unknown artists...Anything you can purchase at a cruise ship art auction, you can also purchase when you get home--from local galleries, over the internet...or even from that guy who works out of his trunk at the corner gas station...and for a considerably lower price.

 

A few things that happen at auctions which assure you won't get a great deal:

1) They generally set a minimum or "reserve" price that is already in excess of their cost, guaranteeing them a profit.

2) (and this IS scammy) The use of "shills". Someone in the audience is actually playing for the house...bidding only to drive the price up, getting the "serious" bidder to beat their price. Often, after the bidding is over, if the real bidder hasn't topped the shill, the auctioneer will approach the bidder with "good news": Either another copy has been located or the higher bidder inexplicably backed out...and they're now willing to sell one to you at your bid price!

3) The auctioneer will artificially establish a value in the minds of the audience, citing "retail value" or an alleged "appraisal"...Except that the value alleged is bogus...That "Retail" or "appraised" $1500 artwork actually regularly sells for $175 at loads of retail establishments...Of course the buyer walks away thinking he's just bought a $1500 steal at $350 when he has, in fact, paid double what he could have bought it for off the ship...

 

These auctions are a PROFIT CENTER...They don't have them because they're losing money...The auction company is doing quite well...and they're also funneling a large cut to the cruise line...

 

If you like a piece of art you see on a ship, write down the name of the artist and of the piece...When you get home, Google it on the internet and buy it there...

 

Personally, if I want a piece of art as a memento of my cruise, I'll buy something in port from a local artist--something that is reflective of my actual voyage, something that is likely one-of-a-kind...

 

Or, if you must, treat the art auctions like the casino--know you are paying a premium for entertainment value...Of course, at least in the casino, you have a CHANCE of winning...

 

 

****************************************

[Winner]

In a recent trade interview Frank del Rio described Oceania in one word: Taste.

 

In the case of Park West being aboard the Oceania ships, the word should be bad taste.

[LAexNY]

If you Google "Park West lawsuits", you will find many discussions of their practices.

 

Here's one example:

 

http://www.dba-oracle.com/t_cruise_art_auctions_scam_fraud.htm

[jollyjones]

I add my vote to those who say get rid of the art auctions! Use the space for activities that enrich us, the pax, (in the broadest sense) - rather than Park West - such as arts/crafts/educational/travel/entertainment events. If interesting enough, pax would pay for them and so there could be an income stream to offset that lost from the auctions.

[Bowie MeMe]

My sister coming off her first cruise said the thing she liked most was --- the art auction. Apparently they had struck up a friendship with the auctioneer and remembered him fondly. I nearly swallowed my tongue!Takes all kinds to make a passenger list.

[suec12]

On Oceania do they do much business? I would think most O passengers would not be very good sales prospects for this art.

[Bruin Steve]

On Oceania do they do much business? I would think most O passengers would not be very good sales prospects for this art.

 

You'd be shocked!!!

There were people on our sailing buying multiple "pieces"...

Just because people have money doesn't mean they have taste or class...

 

P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute"

That was 1871. The world's population was 1.3 Billion. Today, the World's population is over 6.5 billion. Hence Bruin Steve's Corollary to Barnum's Theory:

"Today, there is a sucker born every TWELVE SECONDS."

The world's population has grown 5 times in size, therefore, the sucker per minute ratio has increased in accordance.

[Rickey 88]

Back in 'ol P.T.'s day, they didn't use cheap "champagne", poured from tins, to soften up the multitudes.

 

In addition to the aforementioned and most obnoxious "Tiny Tim", let's not forget one of the "managers" of the boutiques on the Nautica. Went by the name of "Constantine" and like the Park West auctioneers, he was constantly on the intercom (with the volume set at "12") offering cheap watches, gold chains and "real" amethyst if you would come along to his presentation in Martinis where he would be pouring "Scotch" for all.

 

I never went to Park West presentations, but I did go to Constantine's since a good scotch is one of my downfalls.

 

"Good Scotch" ?? What I got was a thimbleful of something poured for a bottle with the label carefully covered. I suspect it didn't come from the Highlands, but rather than the Delta area of Vietnam!

 

Buyer Beware, Indeed!!

[CintiPam]

Our Enchanted Escapade cruise last month was so port intensive that we never even witnessed any of these activities, only forced to pass what appeared to be wasted space with some haning pictures on our way to the evening shows.

[spindrift]

It seems to me on our last O cruise B2B transatlantic to Rio and on to BA, the art auction mess was gone, gone, gone. Woo Hoo I think they woke up. It was wonderful. You also didn't walk into the beautiful lounge and find all the pictures lining the aisles. What a delight. It was horrible to walk in for a nice lecture and find cheap posters lining the aisles.

 

The only thing we had to put up with were the sales folks from the jewelry stores in Rio, but they weren't obnoxious. In fact, a couple we quite helpful with arranging some special sightseeing--no obligations of any type.

[cecil1]

Great response, and thanks for your time to put it together. I've learned a lot reading the article.

[ClaudiaF]

On Oceania do they do much business? I would think most O passengers would not be very good sales prospects for this art.

 

wondering exactly what this means????:eek: