phade

My wife and I were on the Victory in April. We immediately noticed the food lines and it remained that way for cruise duration. I couldn't imagine putting one more person on that ship...let alone additional cabins.

We experienced much of the same - hard to find seats for the comedy show, long waits for food, crowded public spaces, etc. And that's before this apparent transition. 

We're on the Breeze in August with a large family trip. I'm hoping for the best. If it's a poor experience, then we're likely going to go back to RCL.

Have a family vacation in August on the Breeze. Thanks for the write-up...very helpful!

I have limited experience, but what it has been out of the gate:

RC: Two cruises, both extremly enjoyable. Better ships and better maintenance - for some reason that piece just seems to stand out to me. Better food options.

Carnival: One cruise, older ship (Victory). By the end of the second night, the ship was rather boring. 

Very different crowds. FTTF was phenomenal though...

We have a family vacation for 11 people coming up on Breeze in August. I am doing a good job with low expectations for me personally. Our family will be stoked - they are lower income compared to my wife and I. We both prefer RC, but will look forward to us all having a good time. If the family doesn't enjoy, then I doubt we'll be back on Carnival. They're the bar for me...if they don't like it, nobody will.

I am familiar with ADP working in the industry. I suspect it is for their employees to celebrate meeting or exceeding certain sales targets. I doubt clients are involved. I assure it's probably going to be stiff sometimes but once the professional engagement events are over, they will be having fun.

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Freedom was enjoyable for us last month. Sabor was fantastic, too. Worth the upcharge IMO.

This was my second cruise ever, the first being 11 years ago on another RCl ship (can't even remember the name), and the first for my wife. She is interested in checking out the Harmony, but was also very open to another cruise itinerary on Freedom. Admittedly, cruising is equally as much about the ports for us.

Freedom seems like the Goldilocks option for me - not to big, not too small. Just right.

The early bird did not get the worm. Our cruise stops in GC on Aug 20. We have tried booking with Stingray Sailing, Eco, Aquarius, and now awaiting to hear from Sun Ray.

Save booking with the cruise ship, what other places offer the tour? Need a space for four adults and one 12 yo.

Before we get into alot of details, let's clarify already as noted, what the GF didn't like, so as to avoid it again, and the $2,500 budget is for what?

Everything? Just the cabin?

That's a big difference.

Sailing on Aug 16 with a party of 15. This will be interesting. Glad to see most everyone is safe, save for the minor burn on one employee.

That's a great question. I wouldn't expect Mexico to celebrate the U.S. holiday.

Maybe it's another holiday of sorts for them?

On 7 or 8 night cruises we always stay in a balcony cabin....and we have never spent 5-6K on a cruise even with all the excursions added in.

 

If you start out in a suite, then are a heavy drinker (adding either a drink package or per drink), they add on specialty dinners each night and go on the most expensive excursion possible it would be easy to add up quickly.

 

Even when we paid $2300 (including the cost of insurance) for our Indy 8 night cruise in a wonderful balcony our total for the cruise after tips added and excursions (which we did through private company -- because we liked them better than what Royal offered) - wasn't much over 3K and definitely not close to $4K.

Our balcony is $2.7k for FOS for the Aug 16 sailing...airfare is $750. That's $3,450 right off the bat, not spending a single Washington to tip the luggage porter. That leaves me with $1,750 for everything else...drinks, hotel night, tips, excursions, any shopping, taxis, parking fees, and so on and so forth.

Blue Hole is $65 pp plus tip, horseback riding in GC around $100 pp plus tip, Mr. Sanchos around $55 pp plus tip...that's around $650 including tips. Leaves me and the wife with $1,100. Subtract $125 for the hotel. $975 left....subtract two select drink packages, that's $580, with about $400 or so left for shopping, taxis, or misc costs.

Other than the actual balcony I don't see much that's above the norm (say as compared to an OV or interior room), nor areas that are extremely frivolous on our excursion choices.

I'll end up between $5 and 6k for this two person vacation pretty easily.

I think most folks try to make an apples-apples comparison (cost to fly to all the ports, hotels+meals at those ports) not to some "normal" US vacation. Most folks don't spend $5-6K on a cruise - the typical Carribean 7 day sailing is about 1/2 that.

 

But you are right about one thing - at the avg household income of $52,000, taking even a $3K cruise is probably using up a lot of discretionary income.

I see that as apples to oranges. Like most things related to work or play, engagement is the common measurement. I agree one can't reasonably compare a cruise to a Vegas trip, but the commonality is engagement - meaning how much did you enjoy/participate in that trip. If you "value" the trip equally, that's where the apple-to-apple comes into play. I equally enjoy going to Vegas as I do a cruise or a nice sandy beach on an island. I can spend $x amount on Vegas/NYC/land-based vacay or $x amount on a cruise and come home equally satisfied. Some people might not be, and that means you really can't make any comparison.

Ive never been on a 5-6k dollar cruise. I have been on a couple where a +/- 1500.00 cruise turned into 3 grand or so. You are exactly right about the add ons. I know for a fact I can go about anywhere within reason for a week for 3 grand and have my lodging and meals included. Especially if said place is within driving distance as the cruises I have been on have been. Cruising is NOT as inexpensive as some make it out to be when comparing to other vacations.

A 3k cruise is a 5-6k cruise for two people.

I posted my metrics for the cruise on page 6 or so, and I came up with a very conservative budget of $5.2k. $2.7k for the balcony (two people total). That left $2,500 amongst the hotel, flight, hotel night pre-cruise, drinks, excursions and other misc. costs including minor shopping, tips, etc. It added up real fast.

151 people responded making $80,00 or less household income. 390 make $80,001 or more.

Average US household income is around $52,000.

I think this is very telling even without having concrete data points. Cruising tends to be a vacation style of the more well off, however that may be defined. My inference is because it really is more expensive of a vacation that other options chosen "in general."

I just don't see how people can make a case that a typical cruise is equivalent in price to the normal US vacation stats. My $5-6k cruise this August would afford my wife and I a really solid land-based vacation, whether in Vegas, NYC, FL, or even places within the Caribbean, with money to spare. Ancillary add-ons to cruises really jump the overall cost.

I voted. Don't see the big deal when there's no identifying markers as to who voted in what bucket.

People thinking cruising is a bargain always baffle me. I think cruising is a pretty expensive vacation. Dollar for dollar my wife and I have done some pretty nice vacations for the all-in price of our August FOS cruise.

$2,750 for a balcony (two people)

$750 flights

$125 for the hotel the night pre-cruise

$575 for drink packages

$1,000 for planned excursions, shopping, tips, taxi, or misc. costs

That's $5.2k for a relatively conservative all-in cost for two people. I am not surprised at the fact that the majority of people cruising are a little more than double the average household income in the US.

Here is what AMEX says about the typical summer vacation for Americans.

According to American Express' 2013 survey on summer vacation travel, the average expense per person in the United States is $1,145, or $4,580 for a family of four.

Vortex Crossfire in 8x42 is a good value priced set of binos.

I have a balcony for my August cruise, but not sure I want to pack binos. If I don't I'll miss sometime spectacular...and if I do, nothing special will appear.

LOL.

I have heard that Blue Hole's water can not be as pretty as many videos show when there is a big rain.

I would appreciate any help/input on independent excursion Co. for the FOS western itinerary . Leaving May 10 and some of the excursions are sold out thru RCL. Any and all port info is appreciated .

 

Joe

Stingray Sailing for GC...gets great reviews

Courtney Taylor for Blue Hole or DRF in Jamaica.

I have NOT gone on both excursions yet but am booked with both and my experience thus far has been solid.

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like it will be a go!

I'd like to get thoughts or experiences with booking and dining at the specialty restaurants on day 1 for dinner.

There's a 20% OBC for day 1 bookings. Looking at plans, Day 1 and Day 3 are really the only nights we likely will have open on our FOS western 7 day to consider booking.

Is it too rushed, is it a quality experience? If it helps, we're looking at Sabor.

TIA.

They are looking for THEO, several factors go into it, like time and average bet. One thing that I would be curious about is whether they look at THEO based on the cruise length or the days you put money in a machine or on the table. Say, at a hotel in Vegas, if you are at the hotel three days and only play two at your home base, your theo average is knocked down.

Why is this important? If they look at just the days you put money in, you may be better off playing 2 days rather than 4-5 days with the same bankroll amount. If you have $500 as an example of bankroll to play through, burning $250 through the machines for two days as compared to $100 for 5 may net out a better rating.

My assumption is they use the cruise length to create a standard to compare against, but who knows.

I do wonder what those who have said some pretty harsh and critical things about a person who would dare share a drink with someone...

 

If I buy a drink and decide I don't like it, do I need to throw it away? Because letting another person drink it who doesn't have a package is "stealing" according to you all.

If it fits with their own view, the other person is wrong and no explanation is worthy.

Most people agree sharing a sip isn't stealing. Some people think sharing a drink you will not finish is stealing; some do not. Some people think sharing a whole drink is stealing. Some people think sharing two drinks isn't a big deal - it's been said on this thread alone.

Other than the sip - there's not clear voice of the people, except that individuals believe they are right, including me.

Problem is, I'm not going to cast stones if someone shares a drink. I've never shared a package.

Even in the few posts since I last posted, people do not agree where that line really is.

So it is OK, to share, but if I buy a drink, and don't like it, but my wife does, and I give it to her, not on a package, it is stealing, unethical, etc.?

Interesting.

And, that is my whole point. No rationalizing, not nothing. People can't even draw the line with the spirit of the law. That and RCI has a built in cushion clients are not even close to hitting yet.

You love wordy responses that amount to a whole lot of hooey. If I let you taste my drink, I'm not giving it to you to keep. Just because Royal hasn't caught Angel of Sin sharing his drink package doesn't make it OK with Royal as he suggests. You're entire multi-paragraph diatribe is an attempt to rationalize the absurd.

The sky doesn't fall when drinks are shared. Boo hoo. Is that more on your level?

...and that's not all you get for your cruise fare either. Just saying, people use the 'meals already paid for' line and it's just silly. What's the cost of an MDR meal out of a cruise fare?

No idea, but it is more than $0.00. $35 is just the upcharge. It does not represent the total all-in cost to the consumer. We can speculate, but safe to say, it is more than zero that needs to be added to the $35.

Honestly you are being totally absurd. If you can't distinguish the difference between giving someone a taste of a drink, and supplying them with drinks the entire cruise, then you need to seek help. We all know what we are talking about here. We are talking about one person buying a Beverage Package that quite specifically states is for personal use only and cannot be shared, then advocating sharing it with anyone they like. Why do we care? Well, that's simple, if this behavior becomes the norm, like many advocate, then RCCL will either discontinue the package, or require everyone in the cabin to purchase it (like all other cruise lines do). The ability for one person to purchase the package is a great benefit to many of us. So if your behavior causes me to lose a benefit that I enjoy, I get angry at that. Can you blame me? It'll ultimately cause ME extra money.

By the way, no one really cares if an occasional drink is shared. Really...we don't. But quit bragging about it, advocating it, etc. Keep it to yourself.

No, it is not absurd. What was discussed was the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. People here are saying that sharing a drink package is wrong, and that the letter of the law is what it is. Yet, many of these same people find no issue with sipping or minor sharing, which is NOT the letter of the law. The inconsistency is just proof that people base following a "law" on their own interpretation 99.9% of the time and not the letter of the law. It really is about the spirit of the law that is to be followed, so people should stop saying that the tight language included by RCI is what should be adhered to.

So occasional sharing is OK? That models precisely the point I am making - the letter of the law is not what the majority of people adhere to. So, Angel of Sin was correct in that the spirit of the law is precisely the scope that should be determined.

RCI hedges their business moves like any responsible company does when looking out for primary stakeholders - clients, stockholders, and employees. RCI can likely give you a concrete value built into the pricing structure to offset risks to the drinks business model - they know with very high confidence intervals what the opportunity cost really is. They likely know the specific data mining characteristics and what portion of the risk they represent - ie. male, female, age range, accommodation level, etc. Each profile likely has a risk assessment and value, and they likely know what drinks each group is sharing and can assign a fiscal value that needs to be accounted for within their pricing structure. Beyond that, they probably have big data on things like your price elasticity gauge (PEG), and much more. All of this leads to alot of information that they can price confidently knowing that the built in risks are mitigated by a massive, and I mean massive, cushion in the model.

The truth is, opportunity for packages to be required for all passengers in cabins, if re-issued, is much more likely to be driven by expanded profit opportunity rather than mitigating losses from the current model. It is unfortunate because many people will associate it with people sharing drinks.

Sure, people can say, well if you share drinks, you are raising the prices on me and everyone else. Maybe - but likely, the truth is RCI is pricing their structure with an abundance of cushion that the amount of sharing that would need to take place before adjustment to their risk analytics data would be so big you might just say screw it, and go with one package.

I am not saying I endorse or share drinks, other than sipping, but understanding the kind of detail that goes into their business model, I am confident that I am not paying any appreciable amount more for people sharing at this time because the cushion isn't close to being met. If it were, the pricing on the packages would have changed with the recent increases to non-package drinks. The move to price increase the individual drinks to me signifies they want people on the packages because they are increasingly profitable. If there were any concern with drink sharing from a bean counter perspective, the individual drink prices would not have gone up. Their individual prices going up actually increases drink sharing, which in turn, again means RCI isn't even close to their cushion, and wants to actually push more clients to the package for increased profits. How about this for a shocker, RCI knows it is intentionally increasing drink sharing volume? Why? Because they can turn a greater profit...crazy huh?

The cool thing for RCI is that they can pass this belief system off pretty easily without needing to do anything. People here are quick to say any drink price increases are due in large to sharing...but in reality, it is perfect cover to expand profit margins.